If you belief in evolution and are atheist let me ask you a question ?

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tenorio_rotc

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#151 tenorio_rotc
Member since 2003 • 3447 Posts
[QUOTE="tycoonmike"] [QUOTE="tenorio_rotc"]
We don't know, but evolution makes alot more sense IMOzeroman089x2

Yeah besides, this is something people that are threatened by science and want to only accept religion do. They don't read into a whole theory. All matter has always been here. Before time, the sigularity which contained all matter did exist and the big bang refers to the super fast expansion of that matter. Where it came from or where it was, we can't tell and probably never will, the research and solutions found say that we cannot look past a certain point in history and the laws of physics bind us to only really be able to see a few hundred thousands of years after the big bang. All we can tell is that all matter was in a singularity and time and space, as we know it and feel it, did not exist. Space Time is 4 dimensional and it cannot exist when only 1 dimension is allowed.


How can we be certain that this is true, though? All scientific theories, like evolution or the big bang, are just that, theories. They are not fact, becuase that goes against what a theory is, something that is most likely true, but still cannot be proven. For all we know, God created the universe as easily as if we were to flip a light switch. We can never be certain.


Well you could easily answer any question that is hard to find the answer to with god did it.  God exists but you cannot just give up and say it was him all the time.  If your logic is true, then what if god created all the memories of your life because he felt like starting a world, like ours, right now, at this exact time?
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Timstuff

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#152 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts
Real science-- things we can actually OBSERVE, like biology, chemestry, history, physics, and so forth all go hand in hand with what the bible has to say. The big bang and the theory of transient species however though, are only theory. They are not observeable, and therefor you have to make a descision based on what your personal beliefs are. No one was there when life began, so it all comes down to a matter of faith. Will you put your faith in the bible, or in the speculations of athiests?
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tycoonmike

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#153 tycoonmike
Member since 2005 • 6082 Posts
[QUOTE="tenorio_rotc"] [QUOTE="tycoonmike"] [QUOTE="tenorio_rotc"]
We don't know, but evolution makes alot more sense IMOzeroman089x2

Yeah besides, this is something people that are threatened by science and want to only accept religion do. They don't read into a whole theory. All matter has always been here. Before time, the sigularity which contained all matter did exist and the big bang refers to the super fast expansion of that matter. Where it came from or where it was, we can't tell and probably never will, the research and solutions found say that we cannot look past a certain point in history and the laws of physics bind us to only really be able to see a few hundred thousands of years after the big bang. All we can tell is that all matter was in a singularity and time and space, as we know it and feel it, did not exist. Space Time is 4 dimensional and it cannot exist when only 1 dimension is allowed.


How can we be certain that this is true, though? All scientific theories, like evolution or the big bang, are just that, theories. They are not fact, becuase that goes against what a theory is, something that is most likely true, but still cannot be proven. For all we know, God created the universe as easily as if we were to flip a light switch. We can never be certain.


Well you could easily answer any question that is hard to find the answer to with god did it. God exists but you cannot just give up and say it was him all the time. If your logic is true, then what if god created all the memories of your life because he felt like starting a world, like ours, right now, at this exact time?


I didn't say it was God. I'm saying that anything is possible. Who is to say evolution or God is the right answer? Perhaps it's something completely different, like aliens creating a planet to see what would develop. Perhaps Earth was a penal colony for some immense alien empire, where the first inhabitants, the cavemen, were actually brainwashed into thinking they were primitives. Who can say?
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GTA_dude

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#154 GTA_dude
Member since 2004 • 18358 Posts
But who created god then? Did he appear out of nothing? Big Bang makes more sense imo
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withouthatred

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#155 withouthatred
Member since 2006 • 6407 Posts

Real science-- things we can actually OBSERVE, like biology, chemestry, history, physics, and so forth all go hand in hand with what the bible has to say. The big bang and the theory of transient species however though, are only theory. They are not observeable, and therefor you have to make a descision based on what your personal beliefs are. Timstuff
Evolution and the big bang have alot of physical evidence, in the case of evolution there's; vesigal structures, the fossil record, similaritys in D.N.A., ect. The big bang has observable evidence such as background radiation, an expanding universe, redshift, ect. They are observable, and just becouse they are a theory is not a good reason to dismiss them right off, to put it into perspective, so is gravity....

Will you put your faith in the bible, or in the speculations of athiests? Timstuff
That's a pretty stupid question evolution doesn't contradict the bible, and plenty of theists believe in it.

btw, I think what it really comes down to is will you accept the unifying theory of biology, or will you continue to believe the world is 6000 years old, for apsolutely no reason.

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withouthatred

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#156 withouthatred
Member since 2006 • 6407 Posts

well, if nothing existed before the big bang it stands to reason physics did not exist either so creation from nothingness does not violate a law that does not exist... comp_atkins
Here's one modern theory's interperatation of it.

Technically there are no laws in science, in fact imaginary particals violate the first law of thermodynamics.

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karlhunguss

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#157 karlhunguss
Member since 2006 • 241 Posts

how was god created did anyone answer that?

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Timstuff

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#158 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts
There's no such thing as a vestigal structure. Any "vestigal structure" you can name does actually have a purpose. If you think your tailbone is useless, I'll pay to have it removed. Just don't blame me when you can't take a crap.

There is no evidence of a big bang. The theory only exists because evolutionists can't come up with something better.

DNA is meaningless when comparing species. Humans share more genetic information with a squirrel than a chimp, and we also share 50% of the our DNA with a common bananna.

And theists who believe in evolution only believe it because they either caved into peer pressure instead of researching the facts for themselves, or they aren't a very serious Christian to begin with. The bible said that pain an suffering is the result of man's sin, and if there was pain and suffering before man existed (which there would be if Evolution is true), then that is impossible.
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Gamezilla57

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#159 Gamezilla57
Member since 2005 • 2486 Posts
I believe that there is a God and that He sent His one and only Son to die on the cross for our sins. People can believe what they want, but really look around and try to figure some things out. The prophecies predicted in the Bible are coming true, whether you want to believe it or not. Jesus is coming back soon and it will be when we least expect it.
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Grouch0de

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#160 Grouch0de
Member since 2005 • 7251 Posts
I don't know, but just saying that god did it and leaving it at that keeps us from actually going out and proving it.
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#161 BobbyBobby85
Member since 2003 • 10336 Posts

how was god created did anyone answer that?

karlhunguss

God is beyond our realm of perception and time.  See Romans 11:33:

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"

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withouthatred

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#162 withouthatred
Member since 2006 • 6407 Posts

There's no such thing as a vestigal structure. Any "vestigal structure" you can name does actually have a purpose. Timstuff
A simple example would be the legs inside of snakes, they serve no purpose, and would not harm it if they were removed.


There is no evidence of a big bang. Timstuff
I just mentioned some, can you read?

The theory only exists because evolutionists can't come up with something better. Timstuff
It exists becouse of the evidence I previously mentioned, scientists recognized and formed it into a theory, if it's not true though, how do you think their keeping the hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers all over the globe from spilling the beans. No seriously I'm interested in what you have to say about your wackjob conspiracy theor.

DNA is meaningless when comparing species. Humans share more genetic information with a squirrel than a chimp, and we also share 50% of the our DNA with a common bananna.Timstuff
It's very useful infact, for example the neanderthal has different D.N.A. then we do, all species have the same start and end dna codons suggesting a similar background, junk D.N.A. and redundant D.N.A. show that species currentally do not use all the D.N.A. that has existed throughout their ancestory.

And theists who believe in evolution only believe it because they either caved into peer pressure instead of researching the facts for themselves, Timstuff
Somehow I doubt you have, have you taken a biology class in college or a.p. bio in Highschool? I thought not. The theists who accept it are just the ones who have stopped living in the dark ages and are intelligent enough to not deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence.

or they aren't a very serious Christian to begin with. Timstuff
I wasn't aware that ignorence was part of being a Christian, but whatever....

The bible said that pain an suffering is the result of man's sin, and if there was pain and suffering before man existed (which there would be if Evolution is true), then that is impossible.Timstuff
Garden of Eden can explain this......

btw, keep in mind that if you deny evolution, you really aren't any better than these people, and all denying evolution really does is make both you and other Christians look ignorant, good job.

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Gamezilla57

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#163 Gamezilla57
Member since 2005 • 2486 Posts

[QUOTE="Timstuff"] There's no such thing as a vestigal structure. Any "vestigal structure" you can name does actually have a purpose. withouthatred

A simple example would be the legs inside of snakes, they serve no purpose, and would not harm it if they were removed.


There is no evidence of a big bang. Timstuff
I just mentioned some, can you read?

The theory only exists because evolutionists can't come up with something better. Timstuff
It exists becouse of the evidence I previously mentioned, scientists recognized and formed it into a theory, if it's not true though, how do you think their keeping the hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers all over the globe from spilling the beans. No seriously I'm interested in what you have to say about your wackjob conspiracy theor.

DNA is meaningless when comparing species. Humans share more genetic information with a squirrel than a chimp, and we also share 50% of the our DNA with a common bananna.Timstuff
It's very useful infact, for example the neanderthal has different D.N.A. then we do, all species have the same start and end dna codons suggesting a similar background, junk D.N.A. and redundant D.N.A. show that species currentally do not use all the D.N.A. that has existed throughout their ancestory.

And theists who believe in evolution only believe it because they either caved into peer pressure instead of researching the facts for themselves, Timstuff
Somehow I doubt you have, have you taken a biology class in college or a.p. bio in Highschool? I thought not. The theists who accept it are just the ones who have stopped living in the dark ages and are intelligent enough to not deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence.

or they aren't a very serious Christian to begin with. Timstuff
I wasn't aware that ignorence was part of being a Christian, but whatever....

The bible said that pain an suffering is the result of man's sin, and if there was pain and suffering before man existed (which there would be if Evolution is true), then that is impossible.Timstuff
Garden of Eden can explain this......

btw, keep in mind that if you deny evolution, you really aren't any better than these people, and all denying evolution really does is make both you and other Christians look ignorant, good job.




So me being a Christian and denying Evolution makes me ignorant? Actually, you're the one who believes that we evolved from a monkey and we're ignorant? I'm actually getting a kick out of this because you don't realize how crazy you sound. If we evolved from monkeys then why aren't monkeys still evolving into people. How did the universe just explode into place and how were the planets created?
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withouthatred

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#164 withouthatred
Member since 2006 • 6407 Posts



So me being a Christian and denying Evolution makes me ignorant? Gamezilla57
Denying evolution, yes

Actually, you're the one who believes that we evolved from a monkey and we're ignorant? Gamezilla57
Actually we had a common ancestor with monkeys which wasn't a monkey.

I'm actually getting a kick out of this because you don't realize how crazy you sound.Gamezilla57
 You're the one denying the fundamental theory of biology, btw, do you believe the world is flat too, and the sun revolves around the Earth?

 If we evolved from monkeys then why aren't monkeys still evolving into people. Gamezilla57
That's not how evolution works, first of all, we didn't evolve from monkeys,  we had a common ancestor, and evolution isn't a linear path, the species adapts to it's enviroment, in the case of monkeys via genetics and random mutation, the odds of mutations occuring perfectly for them to become human is essentially 0.

How did the universe just explode into placeGamezilla57
http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm

http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/05/the_universe_before_it_began.php

these should explain it better than I can.

  and how were the planets created?Gamezilla57
The matter in our universe was already here, through effect of gravity, it was brought together so as to form a star, after several billion years, that star exploded in the end of it's cycle, and billions of years later, that matter came back together via gravity to form another star, the matter from our planets was circling the star, and through gravity, the planets formed.

Anyways, I think the reason you're being hostile is that you relize you are no better than these people.

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#165 captainspork87
Member since 2005 • 5893 Posts

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something  from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb
A thought from God started the big bang???
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Timstuff

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#166 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

[QUOTE="Timstuff"] There's no such thing as a vestigal structure. Any "vestigal structure" you can name does actually have a purpose. withouthatred

A simple example would be the legs inside of snakes, they serve no purpose, and would not harm it if they were removed.

Snakes need them to make baby snakes. They use them to "scoot over" during intercourse. Yes, the snake can live without his legs. But he's not going to be getting any.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]There is no evidence of a big bang. withouthatred
I just mentioned some, can you read?

The theory came first, and then they found things to support it. The "evidence" of which you speak can be applied to many different theories of cosmic creation though.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]The theory only exists because evolutionists can't come up with something better. withouthatred
It exists becouse of the evidence I previously mentioned, scientists recognized and formed it into a theory, if it's not true though, how do you think their keeping the hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers all over the globe from spilling the beans. No seriously I'm interested in what you have to say about your wackjob conspiracy theor.

I'd hardly call it a conspiracy theory, just ignorance. There is nothing being hidden away, it's just that the scientists choose to believe what they want to. There are no beans to spill, it's just that the idea of a big bang has been hammered into people's heads for so long that they don't care about exploring the alternative.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]DNA is meaningless when comparing species. Humans share more genetic information with a squirrel than a chimp, and we also share 50% of the our DNA with a common bananna.withouthatred
It's very useful infact, for example the neanderthal has different D.N.A. then we do, all species have the same start and end dna codons suggesting a similar background, junk D.N.A. and redundant D.N.A. show that species currentally do not use all the D.N.A. that has existed throughout their ancestory.

Natural selection and micro evolution are observable scientific fact, I will not argue that. What I will argue against though is the idea that it's possible for natural selection to create new genetic information, because from everything we've observed, all it can do is weed out useless information, like a thick fur coat on a desert animal, or a stout beak on a bird that's primary diet will be insects. There has not been a single mutation recorded in all of history that has done anything other than harm the organism.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]And theists who believe in evolution only believe it because they either caved into peer pressure instead of researching the facts for themselves, withouthatred
Somehow I doubt you have, have you taken a biology class in college or a.p. bio in Highschool? I thought not. The theists who accept it are just the ones who have stopped living in the dark ages and are intelligent enough to not deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence.

I know all about evolution, which is why I rejected it. I explored the scientific theories of creationism, and they are infinantly more satasfying for me. My dad is an expert on both, and he's actually held debates with college professors in campus auditoriums on multiple occasions.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]or they aren't a very serious Christian to begin with. withouthatred
I wasn't aware that ignorence was part of being a Christian, but whatever....

It's not ignorance. Evolution was made popular because it allowed ignorance of the bible as a moral standard, and it also undermines the primary philosophy behind the bible-- that man is special, and that he was made with a purpose. That idea is impossible if you believe that man evolved from a single celled organism, because it means that we are only seperated from the animals because we've had more opertunities to evolve.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]The bible said that pain an suffering is the result of man's sin, and if there was pain and suffering before man existed (which there would be if Evolution is true), then that is impossible.withouthatred
Garden of Eden can explain this......

Okay, so where does the garden of eden fit in with the theory of evolution? If there was no death before Adam and Eve's original sin, then how could evolution take place? Whenever I talk to a Christian evolutionist about this, they always melt like butter.

btw, keep in mind that if you deny evolution, you really aren't any better than these people, and all denying evolution really does is make both you and other Christians look ignorant, good job.withouthatred

That is quite possibly the most ignorant statement of all.

I believe that when evolutionists hear christians say they don't believe in evolution, they automatically assume we do not believe in natural selection or micro evolution on any level at all. That is purely asinine though. We DO beleive in science, but we do not let things that cannot be proven alter our faith. Micro evolution is proven, and can be observed. Large scale evolution is only a theory, and there is not enough evidence for it to move beyond that. It's not observable, because either it doesn't happen, or it doesn't happen anymore.
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Nation411

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#167 Nation411
Member since 2006 • 3463 Posts

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb
If you were so smart as you try to depict yourself, you would be aware that their are things we are not certain of. Laws of phyics only apply to earth among many other small things. There are so many things we don't know about yet..we could be so wrong on a lot of things. How can some mythical god create a earth full of living things just to watch them die in cruel ways. He tells us he's a loving god in the bible, but in truth he doesn't fullful or help the people who really need it. It's a buntch of BS lies to make people gather together, and it's also a way for people who are about to die, come in peace with themselves..people are scared of the unknown, so if you tell them their is some spectacular heaven, they don't be scared to die. If you tell them their is a hell, they'll be scared to commit crimes and do bad stuff. It's a way to control people.
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withouthatred

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#168 withouthatred
Member since 2006 • 6407 Posts
[QUOTE="withouthatred"]

[QUOTE="Timstuff"] There's no such thing as a vestigal structure. Any "vestigal structure" you can name does actually have a purpose. Timstuff

A simple example would be the legs inside of snakes, they serve no purpose, and would not harm it if they were removed.

Snakes need them to make baby snakes. They use them to "scoot over" during intercourse. Yes, the snake can live without his legs. But he's not going to be getting any.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]There is no evidence of a big bang. withouthatred
I just mentioned some, can you read?

The theory came first, and then they found things to support it. The "evidence" of which you speak can be applied to many different theories of cosmic creation though.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]The theory only exists because evolutionists can't come up with something better. withouthatred
It exists becouse of the evidence I previously mentioned, scientists recognized and formed it into a theory, if it's not true though, how do you think their keeping the hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers all over the globe from spilling the beans. No seriously I'm interested in what you have to say about your wackjob conspiracy theor.

I'd hardly call it a conspiracy theory, just ignorance. There is nothing being hidden away, it's just that the scientists choose to believe what they want to. There are no beans to spill, it's just that the idea of a big bang has been hammered into people's heads for so long that they don't care about exploring the alternative.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]DNA is meaningless when comparing species. Humans share more genetic information with a squirrel than a chimp, and we also share 50% of the our DNA with a common bananna.withouthatred
It's very useful infact, for example the neanderthal has different D.N.A. then we do, all species have the same start and end dna codons suggesting a similar background, junk D.N.A. and redundant D.N.A. show that species currentally do not use all the D.N.A. that has existed throughout their ancestory.

Natural selection and micro evolution are observable scientific fact, I will not argue that. What I will argue against though is the idea that it's possible for natural selection to create new genetic information, because from everything we've observed, all it can do is weed out useless information, like a thick fur coat on a desert animal, or a stout beak on a bird that's primary diet will be insects. There has not been a single mutation recorded in all of history that has done anything other than harm the organism.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]And theists who believe in evolution only believe it because they either caved into peer pressure instead of researching the facts for themselves, withouthatred
Somehow I doubt you have, have you taken a biology class in college or a.p. bio in Highschool? I thought not. The theists who accept it are just the ones who have stopped living in the dark ages and are intelligent enough to not deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence.

I know all about evolution, which is why I rejected it. I explored the scientific theories of creationism, and they are infinantly more satasfying for me. My dad is an expert on both, and he's actually held debates with college professors in campus auditoriums on multiple occasions.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]or they aren't a very serious Christian to begin with. withouthatred
I wasn't aware that ignorence was part of being a Christian, but whatever....

It's not ignorance. Evolution was made popular because it allowed ignorance of the bible as a moral standard, and it also undermines the primary philosophy behind the bible-- that man is special, and that he was made with a purpose. That idea is impossible if you believe that man evolved from a single celled organism, because it means that we are only seperated from the animals because we've had more opertunities to evolve.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]The bible said that pain an suffering is the result of man's sin, and if there was pain and suffering before man existed (which there would be if Evolution is true), then that is impossible.withouthatred
Garden of Eden can explain this......

Okay, so where does the garden of eden fit in with the theory of evolution? If there was no death before Adam and Eve's original sin, then how could evolution take place? Whenever I talk to a Christian evolutionist about this, they always melt like butter.

btw, keep in mind that if you deny evolution, you really aren't any better than these people, and all denying evolution really does is make both you and other Christians look ignorant, good job.withouthatred

That is quite possibly the most ignorant statement of all.

I believe that when evolutionists hear christians say they don't believe in evolution, they automatically assume we do not believe in natural selection or micro evolution on any level at all. That is purely asinine though. We DO beleive in science, but we do not let things that cannot be proven alter our faith. Micro evolution is proven, and can be observed. Large scale evolution is only a theory, lol, weak argument, so is gravity, but you don't believe in that considering you believe the Earth is flat right? and there is not enough evidence for it to move beyond that. It's not observable, because either it doesn't happen, or it doesn't happen anymore.

I'm not even going to bother, it's obvious that you are too ignorant at this point to have a conversation with, well, my advice is to take a biology class when you get to college, stop using Christianity as an excuse for ignorence, it only makes Christians look stupid, and stop believing the world is flat, we don't live in the dark ages anymore, why do you?
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Disturbed_Dude

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#169 Disturbed_Dude
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Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

How was God created? How did he create things? YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING.
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Timstuff

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#170 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts
I'm not even going to bother, it's obvious that you are too ignorant at this point to have a conversation with, well, my advice is to take a biology class when you get to college, stop using Christianity as an excuse for ignorence, it only makes Christians look stupid, and stop believing the world is flat, we don't live in the dark ages anymore, why do you? withouthatred


So, I belive the earth is flat, huh? When did I say that? You evolutionsts think you're so high and mighty that you can simply proclaim whatever you want, and it's a fact! You just proved it!

I took biology in highschool, and guess what? I came out a creationist. You're basically saying I'm a moron since I didn't let the liberal-controlled eductation system have their way with me. Well guess what? At least I make my own descisions, and don't let a teacher make them for me. The earth being round is a FACT, and it says so right in the bible. There's even a passage mentioning the roundness of the earth. No scientific fact has ever come at odds with the bible. Evolution is not a fact, but an unproven theory, and therefor I do not see it as a threat.
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Timstuff

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#171 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts
[QUOTE="Disturbed_Dude"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

How was God created? How did he create things? YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING.



The concepts of time and matter did not exist before God created them. He is not bound by the laws of physics, because he's the one who wrote them. Why is this so hard to understrand?
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Celldrax

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#172 Celldrax
Member since 2005 • 15053 Posts
[QUOTE="Timstuff"]

How was God created? How did he create things? YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING.
Disturbed_Dude


The concepts of time and matter did not exist before God created them. He is not bound by the laws of physics, because he's the one who wrote them. Why is this so hard to understrand?


Because for some of us, that just simply isn't good enough. But of course we'll never get the answer, so all we can really do is just wonder.
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silver-fish

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#173 silver-fish
Member since 2003 • 183 Posts

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something  from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

That was 15 billion years, so how should we know.

Oh and it is the law of physics...not psychics.

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Disturbed_Dude

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#174 Disturbed_Dude
Member since 2004 • 3777 Posts
[QUOTE="Timstuff"] [QUOTE="Disturbed_Dude"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

How was God created? How did he create things? YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING.



The concepts of time and matter did not exist before God created them. He is not bound by the laws of physics, because he's the one who wrote them. Why is this so hard to understrand?


So an all powerful being making up the laws of physics we live by is more believable than evolution and the big bang theory? Right...
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silver-fish

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#175 silver-fish
Member since 2003 • 183 Posts

 

Read The Last Question by Isaac Asimov

The story deals with the development of a computer called Multivac and its relationship with humanity through the course of seven historic settings. The first is set in the year 2061. In each of the first six scenes a character presents the computer with a question, namely as to how the threat to worthwhile continued human existence posed by the end of the universe can be averted. As the characters in the story recognize, the question is equivalent to: "How do we stop the universe from ending?" In each case the computer finds itself unable to reply due to "insufficient data for a meaningful answer".

In the last scenes, the god-like descendants of humanity watch the universe finally approach the state of destruction and ask the Cosmic AC, Multivac's descendant, the question one last time. Cosmic AC is still unable to answer, but continues to ponder the question; it exists in a hyperspace outside of normal space and time. Eventually the Cosmic AC discovers the answer, but has nobody to report it to; the universe is already dead. It therefore decides to implement the answer and reverse entropy, creating the universe anew; the story ends with AC's pronouncement, "Let there be Light!" And there was light—"

For all we know, God or the Universe could be a machine or computer left over from an ancient, but super advanced society.  Maybe the Cosmic AC is god.

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Timstuff

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#176 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts
That sounds like a dumb answer, and it's too convoluted to be worth considering. I do not live my life around what a science fiction author wrote (that would be Scientology).
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silver-fish

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#177 silver-fish
Member since 2003 • 183 Posts
I did not mean that God or the Universe is a machine or whatever, I meant that no one knows what god or the universe really is.
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zakkro

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#178 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
That sounds like a dumb answer, and it's too convoluted to be worth considering. I do not live my life around what a science fiction author wrote (that would be Scientology).Timstuff
Scientology and Science are two, completely different things. Scientology, as you said, was formed by an author as some bet with another, and is just a bunch of garbage people throw out and put :scien: in it to sound smart. Science is a group of theories formed by tests which takes an unanwsered question, and uses logic that they have gained to try and come up with a logical answer. In religion, most of the time, answers are left without explanation and are regarded as fact.
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FoxFire14

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#179 FoxFire14
Member since 2004 • 198 Posts
Dark energy?
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tycoonmike

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#180 tycoonmike
Member since 2005 • 6082 Posts
I'm not even going to bother, it's obvious that you are too ignorant at this point to have a conversation with, well, my advice is to take a biology class when you get to college, stop using Christianity as an excuse for ignorence, it only makes Christians look stupid, and stop believing the world is flat, we don't live in the dark ages anymore, why do you? withouthatred

I was going to let this thread die, but what you say gives me a reason to revive it. Do you really believe you can sway us with your arrogant words? What we believe is absolutely no concern for you, it is ours. If you truly were a liberal as it says in your union you would give us the right to believe whatever we wish to believe, instead you are a liberal in the sense that Stalin was a liberal. You give us absolutely no right to our own opinions and criticise us for them. You call us theists ignorant, well I call you arrogant for calling us ignorant.

There is a way to combine religion and evolution. Simply put, if God created man in His own image, did He create us in his own mindset? Did He create us to be inquisitive, just like Him? And as such, is it impossible that God created the planets, the earth, the stars, and humanity, but not all life? Perhaps He created the first single-cellular organism and let it evolve outward, becoming plants, fish, birds, and land animals. The Bible's view of Creation is a poetic version of evolution.
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toweringflesh

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#181 toweringflesh
Member since 2005 • 620 Posts
creationism and evolution are both critically flawed. neither if them makes complete sense. everyone just needs to deal with the fact that we will never know everything.
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aces_are_high

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#182 aces_are_high
Member since 2006 • 5235 Posts

[QUOTE="withouthatred"] I'm not even going to bother, it's obvious that you are too ignorant at this point to have a conversation with, well, my advice is to take a biology class when you get to college, stop using Christianity as an excuse for ignorence, it only makes Christians look stupid, and stop believing the world is flat, we don't live in the dark ages anymore, why do you? tycoonmike

I was going to let this thread die, but what you say gives me a reason to revive it. Do you really believe you can sway us with your arrogant words? What we believe is absolutely no concern for you, it is ours. If you truly were a liberal as it says in your union you would give us the right to believe whatever we wish to believe, instead you are a liberal in the sense that Stalin was a liberal. You give us absolutely no right to our own opinions and criticise us for them. You call us theists ignorant, well I call you arrogant for calling us ignorant.

There is a way to combine religion and evolution. Simply put, if God created man in His own image, did He create us in his own mindset? Did He create us to be inquisitive, just like Him? And as such, is it impossible that God created the planets, the earth, the stars, and humanity, but not all life? Perhaps He created the first single-cellular organism and let it evolve outward, becoming plants, fish, birds, and land animals. The Bible's view of Creation is a poetic version of evolution.

he did not claim religion to be against the existence of evolution-he stated that if one does not believe in evolution(christian or not..) -he is living through life in denial...

i agree with what was said by him-micro-evolution exists-we all know about it,and the modern medicinal profession relies upon it-viruses evolve and change as well as germs and other microscopic beings-that is why antibiotic ceases to create an influence when used excessively....

i also believe you have your right to believe in the godly creator and the words of the bible-the point that was being made was that you cannot deny something which is has been proved beyond doubt...-even if it does not suit your narrow perspective of religion...

religion can go together with evolution...

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duble_Needler23

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#183 duble_Needler23
Member since 2004 • 5200 Posts

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

Before I start...let me say, I beleive fully in god. Now, here's my answer to you. We're all humans, right? And what's funny about humans is that all of us, for some odd reason, think there always has to be a beggining and an end. A movie has a beggining, and an end. Our lives have a begining, and an end. To us, everything seems like something HAD to have a begining, and things always have to end. But thats not true. What if the universe never was CREATED, but was, in fact...always there, always. Its possible. They say space never, ever ends, so its possible that the universe never was created, but was in fact always there. There never was a begining, it's just always been "there", and always will be. Pretty crazy, uh? Might be true too.
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kimbokasteniv

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#184 kimbokasteniv
Member since 2004 • 3892 Posts
[QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="Disturbed_Dude"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

How was God created? How did he create things? YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING.



The concepts of time and matter did not exist before God created them. He is not bound by the laws of physics, because he's the one who wrote them. Why is this so hard to understrand?

The only thing to understand, is nobody knows the answer and every one is just making an assumption.
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duble_Needler23

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#185 duble_Needler23
Member since 2004 • 5200 Posts
Soooo....I guess no one can reply to my thread, uh?  Guess that was a good answer then.  *bows head* THANKYOU!!  GOODNIGHT!!!

Seriously though....some things are too strange to be coincidence, I mean, like....somethings are just wierd, like they were meant to happen.  Some of you know what I mean.  Of course, I could be wrong.  Thats my reasoning for beleiveing in god....
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duble_Needler23

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#186 duble_Needler23
Member since 2004 • 5200 Posts
[QUOTE="kimbokasteniv"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="Disturbed_Dude"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

How was God created? How did he create things? YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING.



The concepts of time and matter did not exist before God created them. He is not bound by the laws of physics, because he's the one who wrote them. Why is this so hard to understrand?

The only thing to understand, is nobody knows the answer and every one is just making an assumption.


check out my first post.....maybe thats an ok answer.  I think it could be true....but we will never know, will we?
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four_of_clubs

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#187 four_of_clubs
Member since 2005 • 4474 Posts
I believe god created the universe, and over millions of years it evolved into what it is now. Because obviously "something" created matter before the big bang, right?
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duble_Needler23

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#188 duble_Needler23
Member since 2004 • 5200 Posts
I believe god created the universe, and over millions of years it evolved into what it is now. Because obviously "something" created matter before the big bang, right? four_of_clubs

But what if nothing ever was created?  What if it was always there?  What if the universe had no begining?  What if its been there Forever? 
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#189 Feyre
Member since 2006 • 9631 Posts
[QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]I believe god created the universe, and over millions of years it evolved into what it is now. Because obviously "something" created matter before the big bang, right? duble_Needler23

But what if nothing ever was created? What if it was always there? What if the universe had no begining? What if its been there Forever?

Einstein has proves that time had a beginning
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Total-KO

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#190 Total-KO
Member since 2006 • 4057 Posts

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something  from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.

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duble_Needler23

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#191 duble_Needler23
Member since 2004 • 5200 Posts
[QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

Total-KO

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.


exactly....
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Feyre

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#192 Feyre
Member since 2006 • 9631 Posts
[QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

duble_Needler23

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.


exactly....

NO, not exactly, total BS Einstein has proven there is a beginning of time. wtf :|
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kimbokasteniv

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#193 kimbokasteniv
Member since 2004 • 3892 Posts

check out my first post.....maybe thats an ok answer. I think it could be true....but we will never know, will we?
duble_Needler23

Sure that could be true, infact thats the theory that I prefer my self. But yeah its just a guess.

I think one day we may know... but that probably won't be for a while.
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tycoonmike

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#194 tycoonmike
Member since 2005 • 6082 Posts

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"] [QUOTE="withouthatred"] I'm not even going to bother, it's obvious that you are too ignorant at this point to have a conversation with, well, my advice is to take a biology class when you get to college, stop using Christianity as an excuse for ignorence, it only makes Christians look stupid, and stop believing the world is flat, we don't live in the dark ages anymore, why do you? aces_are_high


I was going to let this thread die, but what you say gives me a reason to revive it. Do you really believe you can sway us with your arrogant words? What we believe is absolutely no concern for you, it is ours. If you truly were a liberal as it says in your union you would give us the right to believe whatever we wish to believe, instead you are a liberal in the sense that Stalin was a liberal. You give us absolutely no right to our own opinions and criticise us for them. You call us theists ignorant, well I call you arrogant for calling us ignorant.

There is a way to combine religion and evolution. Simply put, if God created man in His own image, did He create us in his own mindset? Did He create us to be inquisitive, just like Him? And as such, is it impossible that God created the planets, the earth, the stars, and humanity, but not all life? Perhaps He created the first single-cellular organism and let it evolve outward, becoming plants, fish, birds, and land animals. The Bible's view of Creation is a poetic version of evolution.

i also believe you have your right to believe in the godly creator and the words of the bible-the point that was being made was that you cannot deny something which is has been proved beyond doubt...-even if it does not suit your narrow perspective of religion...



Definition of theory (dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory)

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.

4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.

5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment

6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Notice that nowhere within the definition of theory is the word prove, or proven, proved, or any of the other words for prove. A theory cannot be proven, there can only be significant evidence for the possibility of the theory to be true, because you can never be certain when a new piece of evidence shows up that completely changes the theory.

And besides, the athiests on this board really make no attempt to try to see things from a theist's standing, causing tension between the parties. The thiests try to understand your viewpoint, even though the majority of them do not believe in evolution. It just seems when a theist tries to explain something through God, or our logic, an athiest has to complain using your logic, and then both sides quarrel with each other until the arguement boils down to either petty insults, or it becomes a circular arguement, where it just continues around and around, never finding its end.

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Total-KO

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#195 Total-KO
Member since 2006 • 4057 Posts
[QUOTE="duble_Needler23"][QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

Feyre

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.


exactly....

NO, not exactly, total BS Einstein has proven there is a beginning of time. wtf :|

Whaddya mean here proved it? Did he tape record the beginning of time? No. It's just a theory. Like every other theory.

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Feyre

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#197 Feyre
Member since 2006 • 9631 Posts
[QUOTE="Feyre"][QUOTE="duble_Needler23"][QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

Total-KO

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.


exactly....

NO, not exactly, total BS Einstein has proven there is a beginning of time. wtf :|

Whaddya mean here proved it? Did he tape record the beginning of time? No. It's just a theory. Like every other theory.

uch, I've gotta go prepare dinner, search google or wikipedia if you want to know
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Total-KO

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#198 Total-KO
Member since 2006 • 4057 Posts
[QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="Feyre"][QUOTE="duble_Needler23"][QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

Feyre

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.

What -- Did he !?!??!?!?!?
exactly....

NO, not exactly, total BS Einstein has proven there is a beginning of time. wtf :|

Whaddya mean here proved it? Did he tape record the beginning of time? No. It's just a theory. Like every other theory.

uch, I've gotta go prepare dinner, search google or wikipedia if you want to know

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tycoonmike

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#199 tycoonmike
Member since 2005 • 6082 Posts
[QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="Feyre"][QUOTE="duble_Needler23"][QUOTE="Total-KO"][QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

Feyre

Maybe it's just always been here. No beginning. No end. Just an endless loop of change.


exactly....

NO, not exactly, total BS Einstein has proven there is a beginning of time. wtf :|

Whaddya mean here proved it? Did he tape record the beginning of time? No. It's just a theory. Like every other theory.

uch, I've gotta go prepare dinner, search google or wikipedia if you want to know


I refer you to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory, as well as my last post. Notice that within the definition, the word prove, or proven, or proved, or any of the other words that can mean the same thing as "prove" is not within. No theory can be proven, because one cannot tell when a new piece of evidence will surface that will radically change the theory of the big bang, or the theory of evolution.