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joespimpin

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#1 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
I pretty much agree with everything you said there. But the thing is, Nintendo think they are doing something to sell more systems/games, but really, they are driving people away. It seems that they care more about creating new gamers then satisfying the fans who have been around for 25 years. In the long run, it is the long time fans who will continue to support the system and it's games, not the grandparents who play wiisports once or twice at christmas. This is where nintendo is making a mistake, and they really need to concentrate on their long-time fans.
-DarkestHour-


You are right about supporting the core audience better.  I think they are trying to do that with VC as well as key franchises, but the big let down right now is there is no meat and potatos of games for that core audience while the other two major competitors are bringing out big guns.  I would say wait until after this holiday to decide rather the core is forgotten or rather maybe they were put on hold while developers got the games right.

After all the core audience is the hardest to please and the most lucrative source of profit, so even one misstep on a key franchise could swing the tide the wrong way for Nintendo.
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joespimpin

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#2 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
I like how you set up your argument and supported each topic with very well detailed opinions. If I were a teacher and this were a paper you would have gotten an A. Anyways to the topic, yes whole heartedly agree with you.lzorro


thank you
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#3 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
[QUOTE="joespimpin"][QUOTE="Nova_Mongoose"]insane.....wall....of......text.....it hurts my eyes! But you may have a point... however, I think online is extremely important nowadays.Nova_Mongoose


The question is not rather its important, but is it mass market? Do you think online is more important than playing together with your friends? Can you give examples of games besides FPS games that would benefit more from online where as being in the same room would take away from the experience?

Well, there are numerous possible examples of massively multiplayer RPGs, imagine playing a dogfight on "Heatseeker" online, or playing a World Tournament ofTiger Woods golf against players from all over the world. Tell me you're not the least bit interested?



I think MMO is best served on the PC which is an entirely different beast all together.  The other games you mention really don't address the question.  What games offline multiplayer would take away from the experience?  MMO you are right.  Golf, after playing Wiisports golf with a few friends togther I can't see why online is more important.

I think you might be focusing too much on game mechanics and less on social aspects of playing games together.
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#4 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
insane.....wall....of......text.....it hurts my eyes! But you may have a point... however, I think online is extremely important nowadays.Nova_Mongoose


The question is not rather its important, but is it mass market?  Do you think online is more important than playing together with your friends?  Can you give examples of games besides FPS games that would benefit more from online where as being in the same room would take away from the experience?
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#5 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
As we all know by now Myamoto has given a keynote at GDC 2007 about his personal aspirations and corporate aspirations of game development.  Knowing what I know about Xbox Live, PS Home and the Wii, here is where I think Nintendo is slotting themselves.  Although I mentioned competitors this write up is only Nintendo focused.

Nintendo is in a unique position in the market right now.  Where other competing systems are playing chess with content on and offline, Nintendo is playing checkers.  Nintendo isn't trying to compete directly with its competitors, that's what Nintendo says.  The reason for this is because of the simple truth.  Nintendo's real competition is the minds and hearts of the mass market and the hurdles they must leap over to win over would be gamers.

Nintendo is going after a more non gaming market so analysts and competitors say.  Fact is they are going after those who aren't gamers for reasons x,y and z.  Most of those reasons are related to time investment, cost, complexity and learning curve.  If your a non gamer you will stay a non gamer.  If you are a person not playing games for reasons like this you are Nintendo's new hopeful market.

Now that you know what the market is (to me) now I can tell you where I think Nintendo is going.  Where other competitors in the console space have put community interaction into the systems with software, Nintendo has catered both the handheld and console hardware to invite these community aspects.  Before I go into that I want to explain quickly why community is so important with relativ examples.

Todays users are more tech savy then the old days.  We have today websites, blogs, video/audio podcasts, community sites like myspace, forums, and even open source progects for PC content.  Todays digital content and electronic interaction is no longer about just playing a game with someone its about expressing yourself and ideas.  The feeling that each one of you belong that drives todays internet world.

So back to the Wii/DS.  With this in mind Nintendo doesn't have a complex online solution for a few very important reasons.

1.  Online gaming isn't mass market.

This means Nintendo can spend more time working on projects and games that the majority of current platform owners will want to use and have.

2.  Social aspects built into the hardware.

Nintendo made the Wii/DS friendly systems.  How many DS games can we play multiplayer with one cartridge?  Games like wiisports that want us in the room laughing and interacting together.  The Mii system and so forth.

3.  Online isn't as intense as sitting with your friends and playing.

Many of us complain about split screen, but how many of your friends don't have a system, or game that you want to play with them and now you can't.  Sure playing online competitivly is fun, but playing offline just to mess around with friends and have a good time is a more rewarding experience.

4.  Varied performance with online.

Offline multiplayer is going to be what it was intended, but still online has many problems with lag or other elements that take away from the experience.

5.  Nintendo's hardcore and new gamers need to mix first.

Nintendo is hoping to keep their core audience as well as take on new gamers.  Both aren't used to Nintendo's way of doing online and they also aren't used to each other.  So it is very important to keep that in mind when they do deliver online content, because it has to turn on both audiences, if it only turns one audience on they may lose the other side atleast with online for the generation.

Because of this I see the Wii/DS being social systems.  Not connected systems.  Nintendo's unique approach to gaming and ideas has the ability to bring people together better offline.  Hardware improvements aren't everything for games.  Some of the best games ever made, never even had the performance of a PS1 or N64.  I see Nintendo taking a simpler approach to gaming and adjusting the game mechanics to fit that new ways.  A good example of this appears to be mario galaxy.

well I am curious to see where you think Nintendo will go from here?
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#6 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
Think about it. An M rated game on the Wii, developed by Nintendo, will prove they just don't think about the little kids playing their consoles, but as well as the mature gamers. Or at least more T games.bukato


Nintendo should make new games and franchises that cater to their strenghts and vision.  If one of those games happens to be M rated then fine if not then so what.

M rated doesn't necessarily mean anything with game quality.
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#7 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
I find it very annoying they keep everyone in the dark, and dont tell anyone till the last minute. They dont release the release dates, or any announcments. Its getting frustating, i have nothing to look forward to, like people are saying, how about an upgradable Mii Channel? Well Nintendo wont announce it till the last minute and wont say a word, same with online....i just find it annoying....soulfood4


I agree that its annoying but it hasn't changed since the days of NES.  There is so much to go into on this topic that I am not going to go into it.

Basically Nintendo is taking the see for your self approach which might be working for non gamers, but is it selling to gamers?  I think that is the big hurdle in the whole thing.
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#8 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
to haze 101 it won't let me finish my post but I think you understand what I mean.

If the VC was a service instead of a buy per game situation I would agree with you 100% because you are paying for the service and not the game.  But we are paying for the game.  So I think we need to take into consideration the hardware and software emulation of the Wii, things like value and overall how well the game is translated as a complete experience.
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#9 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
[QUOTE="joespimpin"][QUOTE="Haze_101"]I'm tired of watching the VC games being rated poorly because they can't stand up to todays game in things like the graphic or sound departments. I don't understand why GS rates VC games and compares them to like 360 graphics when the Wii isnt even at that calibur. The games on the VC were great at the TIME THEY WERE RELEASED! Even though most old school games could blow some new games out of the water, they weren't meant to stand up toe to toe with todays games and for some reason GS dosent get that so I propose that either:

1.GS adopts a fair rating system for VC games that rates them based on the years when they came out and not at todays standard of gaming.

or

2.GS should not rate them at all and just let us know when they are released and be done with it

Anybody with me?
Haze_101


Your 100% wrong.

This is the Wii Dilemma! VC games are not rated the same as Wii, 360 and PS3 games. Not even close. They are however rated by how well they hold up today. In other words how well does the experience translate to new gamers today. Of course the games aren't going to have the graphics sound ect of today's games, that is obsurd to even think that is the scale.

This is the area where making a good game in the past meaning believable graphics, soud that fits the game, gameplay that is fun and presentation of those ideas can pay off big time. A game holds up well because it was made well.

Don't forget the Wii just isn't for existing gamers. It is also for non gamers and for people like myself that never played Sega systems besides the dreamcast and never played TG16, I find the reviews to be well informed for my buying purchases.

Because of reviews I have bought Gunstar Heroes and Ristar for the Genesis on the VC. Reviews for VC games are very important when there is no game demo for us to try out. Plus what if the game has technical problems on the VC?

Lastly don't forget VC wasn't first, 360 has live arcade with retro content. Sony sort of has a store to. VC content has to hold up, where as live arcade content is often updated for today's standards.

My advice to you is don't read the review if you don't like the idea of it, end of story.



Thanks you've done nothing but prove my point further...they should be reviewing it of how they were back then because most old games by todays standards would get laughed at by new gamers. Reviewing by how it will hold up in todays world is wrong and I know I can just ignore the reviews I generally do but there are some people that actually go by what GS says.

Example: Ocarina of Time

When it came out in 1997 it got perfect score. I understand since you cant use the stone of agony its a draw back but nobody ever used it in the first place I know I never did but it didnt deserve to lose 1.1 points because of it and they also the sound and graphics were brought down because it's old. DUH ITS SUPOSE TO BE OLD IT CAME OUT 10 YEARS AGO! GS dosen't seem to grasp that. OOT shouldn't have got less than 9.5. Now I bet in the next couple of days theres gonna be OOT bashing threads made by noobs agreeing with GS reviews.

OOT was one of the few games that has gotten a perfect score and is probably one of the best games ever created
AT THAT TIME and possibly forever and it wasn't made to be graded 10 years later. And yes it is graded by todays standard if it wasnt why would they downgrade the graphics and sound? If its graded by how it would hold up today it would get a 10 no problem.

Oh yeah hold up today and todays standards are kind of the same thing just worded differently

What I just said probably makes no sense to anybody but me right now its 1:47 am and im supose to be studying I got forbidden>



So you want them to base OoT review off the N64 review. Last I checked you couldn't use a N64 controller on the Wii, and some of the graphics are better in spots while other parts are worse, but you want them to use the OoT review. You just proved my point with that example.

The experience is different on the Wii as compared to the N64. Also you have to look at things like value and so forth. Value and Tilt are scorable items correct. OoT on the N64 was an original and jump to 3D, but you have to ask yourself something important, is this really the same experience as you had on the N64? Its close but not quite. Also in the Value section has this game ever been rereleased at all? Nintendo is known for this type of marketing. If you have bought the game more than once it may not be a great value.

Unless you can prove to me that everything in the game is the exact same as the N64 version including the interface, which is different with the GC or forbidden>
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#10 joespimpin
Member since 2006 • 817 Posts
There is no such thing as an early on developed from the ground up AAA title.

Wii had zelda which was a GC for two years before hitting the Wii, that doesn't count.

Resistace was way very compitent but lacked compelling content that would draw you into the game, it felt too much like a quake or unreal.

None of the AAA for sony will hit this quick.  I think motorstorm was over hyped as the must have game so PS3 owners would have something to make them believe they should early adopt.  In reality after playing the demo, its a snore and a half.  Standard arcade racer with some twists.  Visually its beautiful but that doesn't make it a AAA title by any means.