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Tropictrain

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#1 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] nope. Whats weird is why the movie wasn't as well received as the games were.Lulu_Lulu
Thats because you lack the interactive element ;) Noone will be interested in a "game" you cant actually play.

Indeed, where it gets confusing is if somebody plays the game for the story.

And I liked both Advent Children and Spirit's Within. Although the stories in the games are better because they have more time to tell a good story. Advent Children was mostly good because of the fight scenes. I can't remember much from Spirit's Within, but I remember enjoying it. 

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#2 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

Why the sad face? Why is this bad? I never touched the multiplayer in Uncharted, for example. But that doesn't mean I think it's bad that they added it. I simply don't play online multiplayer. I probably won't play this either. But I'm not going to whine about it. Enjoy the single player like you always did. Those who want to play the multiplayer will. I don't get why everyone is making a fuss about this. 

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#3 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] Yes. . . . Yes aaaaaaand yes. I just don't think Tomb Raider, MGS, and Final Fantasy are one of those games.Lulu_Lulu

Actually, I only play Final Fantasy for the story. I don't even much enjoy the gameplay. The gameplay is kinda "meh" for the most part, but I like the stories told in those games. If the story was removed, I would not play the game at all. Do you think that's weird? 

nope. Whats weird is why the movie wasn't as well received as the games were.

I never said anything about the movie. I'm talking about the games.

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#4 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] yeah, basicly.Lulu_Lulu
Ok, so from your edit i can take it you acknowledge that a story can also be the gameplay itself. And so we are on the same page and you are now fully aware that there are people who actually play the game for its stories.:D

Yes. . . . Yes aaaaaaand yes. I just don't think Tomb Raider, MGS, and Final Fantasy are one of those games.

Actually, I only play Final Fantasy for the story. I don't even much enjoy the gameplay. The gameplay is kinda "meh" for the most part, but I like the stories told in those games. If the story was removed, I would not play the game at all. Do you think that's weird? 

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#5 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

Like I said, differences between males and females are due to environmental differences. The environment does induce physical changes in the brain, by the way. Such as: size and weight, which you pointed out. Now if you have evidence to suggest that these are due to genetics and not environment I would love to see it. But I haven't seen any conclusive evidence in that regard. 

And I said LARGELY irrelevant. Obviously a guy can't get pregnant so that role requires a woman. And Brokeback Mountain is about homosexual love, so obviously both characters need to be of the same sex. And once again, maybe there are reasons this game requires 3 men. I don't know yet. But I do believe that many, if not most, stories out there can be told regardless of what sex the main character is. Revisions would be needed, but if the decision to switch the gender is made early enough that won't matter. Every play I've written stars a male character. It's something I hadn't thought of. I'm male so it just kind of happened. But honestly, I could probably change the sex of all of them and the core elements of the story as well as the message I wanted to convey would not be damaged. I would need to make some changes to the dialogue in parts for sure, but the narrative could stay the same. So considering there is a shortage of women in video games, I think developers should start using women more often. 

EDIT* Also, I would like to point out that I said they are mentally identical, I didn't say their brains are the same. Obviously, small pieces of the brain are different. Our brains are not only home to our minds, they control all bodily functions as well. And males and female differ in certain bodily functions. Therefore, our brains could not possibly be identical. 

Jacanuk

Yes, some differences are down to environmental influences and upbringing, but it doesnt count for them all. I am sure you have read the study from Harvard from 2001, where they focus on the differences in size and also a aware of the 6.5 times greater grey matter men have compared to females, and the 10 times greater white matter females have compared to men. And that is just to name a few of the differences, and yes some of them can be caused by environmental damage, but if we take a standard male/female, you would still see differences. So we are not 100% identical. And if we look mentally the difference is even greater and more visible. And that cannot just be chalked down to enjoyment and upbringing.

Despite you saying largely irrelevant you would still be stretching it, you are not as wrong as before but still not correct, since gender does indeed matter, in some stories a lot more than others. In Brokeback to females wouldn´t even be a 10th as controversial as the movie was with 2 guys, since there is a general consensus among men that 2 females together are hot. If you talk games, try removing Master Chief from Halo and have a female instead or remove Cole Phelps and put in Coleen Phelps.  In La Noire it would require a quite large rewrite.

Also why you choose male characters is probably because you do what most people do, choose things that come naturally and things you can relate to.

But I am willing to bet that you cannot change the gender of most of your stories without also making some serious revisions to the stories that would make them completely different. And this shortage of women, well since the majority of gamers are male, why should the industry not cater to this pretty big majority. Also can you give me a good reason why females should be used more, if we disregard the normal PC BS.

I've read several studies similar to the one you described. And why do you think it's genetic? If you take a university graduate and compare their brain to a student who never finished high school you'll see large differences in grey matter as well. Is this genetic or environmental? The more a certain part of the brain is used, the more axons will be developed in that area. This is especially crucial in the early years of life. I still believe these differences in grey matter are due to differences in upbringing, not genetics. Once again, find me a study that actually links genetics and differences in brain development. I could also find plenty of studies that demonstrate the exact same differences between white people and black people. This doesn't mean anything in terms of genetics. These differences can all be explained by differences in environment.

And you would lose that bet you mentioned in your last paragraph. My stories will not need to go through drastic revisions. Dialogue will need to be altered at times, but the core of it will remain the same. And what do you mean by "not as wrong as before?" I said "largely irrelevant" from the start. You just read it wrong. 

And I've played the first three Halo games and if Master Chief was female it would not make any difference to me. The sex affects the story about as much as Samus's does in Metroid. I never played La Noire, so I can't comment. But I agree that some stories require a certain sex. But many, if not most, do not. Hand picking individual games and movies that are the exception does not change that. 

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#6 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

Crazy Taxi? You guys must be thinking of The Simpsons Road Rage. Hit & Run was GTA-like. It was a really good game too at the time, and a sequel would have been awesome... years ago. That said, I still signed the petition the last time this topic made. But I still believe your efforts are futile, though I applaud you for still trying. It's just hard to imagine another version of the game coming out at this point without it being outdated and crappy.SoNin360

Ah yes, my bad. I got them confused. :P

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#7 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

Why would this matter? And what's wrong with interactive movies anyway? Heavy Rain was great. I can't see good graphics hindering my experience in a game. Do you avoid games that look like Pixar movies? Or do you avoid Pixar movies because they look like video games? I don't understand this logic. The defining qualities of a video game is the interactive component, not how it looks. 

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#8 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

I suppose when I visited a local high school for observations and the students were calling me by my last name or sir made me feel pretty old as well. 

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#9 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] I thought we were talking about the Story and only the Story of Video Games and Movies (its why kept saying "Narratively Speaking"), without that context my argument is useless.Lulu_Lulu

We are. And the interactive component sucks me into the world which allows me to develop a greater emotional attachment to the characters which enhances the story. I feel more empathy for the protagonist and I suffer his pain to a greater extent when he fails. In Uncharted, I become Nathan Drake. This affects my enjoyment of the story. 

Well, I've only played Uncharted 1 and 3, and as far as I can tell, the story isn't interactive, (or in the case of U3, isn't interactive enough). I'm not saying its bad, or isn't immersive. I'm saying, narratively speaking, it requires a passive observer, not an active participant. The game is played but the story is mostly observed, unlike Mass Effect which has a multilayed interactive story which requires an active participant. I'm running out of ways to say the samething.

Then stop saying it. Obviously we're different. The story is viewed passively, yes. But because of the interactive gameplay elements (not interactive story elements) the emotional engagement is different for me. That's why the story works better as a game than a movie. It doesn't affect you the same way. But I feel more empathy for a person that I take control of than a person in a movie. So that's my defense of it. You're free to disagree. 

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#10 Tropictrain
Member since 2010 • 4863 Posts

The N64 was the first console a classmate of mine played. He doesn't remember the era of SNES and Genesis. We're both graduate students. That made me feel kind of old.