GTA V: No Female Protagonist

I've seen this issue debated a few times on this board. The idea of female protagonists in a video game: does it matter?

GTA V has three leads, all of them male.

Does this bother you at all? If one of the three were female, would you not buy GTA V? Does it even need discussed?

I wrote a blog about it, and would love any feedback. Have a read, if you please.

http://www.gamespot.com/users/experience_fade/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-26035885

I didn't read your whole blog because I literally just finished reading this. But to answer the question that started the blog, you are not the only one bothered by it. The link I provided shows this. And to be honest, I do find it strange that none of them are female. It's rare for a movie, tv show, or even a video game to have 3 or more protagonists with none of them female these days. They would usually include at least one female to be inclusive. And I would definitely buy it with a female character. 

So?

No creative work should have to be comprised of a list of bullet points. If the creators' vision for the game didn't feature a female lead, that's fine. I'd be fine if the game featured ALL female leads as well. I'm sort of sick of people thinking that every goddamn thing that gets made has to have this magical list of ingredients to be fair to everyone and well-rounded. Fvck that. Make the games as the vision of the creator(s) dictates. 

Honestly they should of allowed us to create our own protagonist like Saints Row games, GTA games have always seemed way to scripted....makes u kinda pissed at rockstar for cutting corners sometimes, the game could of been the BEST of all time, but instead they leave cards on the table for its next release, well this TIME we'll have this!!

GTA V: No Asian Protagonist. What's their problem, are they racist or something?

Now that I think of it, they don't have Arab protagonists either. Confirmed racist and sexist game. Boycott it!

yea its bothers me deeply.. i have cried myself to sleep at night since the announcment of GTAV

When I found out about the 3 protagonists and neither one of them being female, I couldn't sleep for about a month. Sometimes these days I still have nightmares about it. But on a serious note, no - doesn't bother me at all. It's just a video game.

I would have preferred one, but it doesn't deter me from the game really.  I wasn't expecting a female protagonist in a GTA game anyway. 

So?

No creative work should have to be comprised of a list of bullet points. If the creators' vision for the game didn't feature a female lead, that's fine. I'd be fine if the game featured ALL female leads as well. I'm sort of sick of people thinking that every goddamn thing that gets made has to have this magical list of ingredients to be fair to everyone and well-rounded. Fvck that. Make the games as the vision of the creator(s) dictates.

Shame-usBlackley

Well, there's always the modding community, which will most certainly be big on GTA V, so a team can decide to work on a mod for GTA V that involves a new a female protagonist. That's probably the only way to help spark more interest for Rockstar North in having a protagonist that's not always a male.Mawy_Golomb

So?

No creative work should have to be comprised of a list of bullet points. If the creators' vision for the game didn't feature a female lead, that's fine. I'd be fine if the game featured ALL female leads as well. I'm sort of sick of people thinking that every goddamn thing that gets made has to have this magical list of ingredients to be fair to everyone and well-rounded. Fvck that. Make the games as the vision of the creator(s) dictates. 

Shame-usBlackley

I don't care at all.

I've been wanting a female protagonist in a GTA game since vice city. Im not concerned about being inclusive. A female lead would just open the door for new narrative possibilities in the GTA world. There are certain stories you can only tell with a female character. Certain stories you can only tell with a male, certain stories you can only tell with a black character, and so on. Why not explore something new?

Edit: Another good question to ask is, "How many woman are working as developers for rockstar?" If the team making the game has a lack of good female talent there is a low likelihood that they would suggest a female lead or be able to make a good lead if they tried.

This was brought up in a thread in OT as well. I'm going to quote the best post from that thread, which is this guy's:

Game looks so orgasmically good that I would play as a mudblood androgynous asexual lizardchaoscougar1

My point is, Rockstar's reputation is excellent. Just having Rockstar and GTA on the cover guarantees that its going to sell millions. This could have been a great opportunity to put in one female in the three mains. But for whatever reason they didn't. Maybe it just didn't occur to them. Maybe they have no women of influence in the company to tell them "Hey maybe we could make one of them female." I'd be interested in hearing Rockstar's reasoning.

Oh well. It was a missed opportunity. But certainly nothing to boycott the game over. Being an established, long running, AAA moneymaker, maybe Rockstar was hesitant to take such risks. You know what'd be better though? A brand new Rockstar IP with a female protagonist. I'd like that much better actually.

I don't think it's a problem. Honestly I just figured they were being authentic.

I don't think it's a problem. Honestly I just figured they were being authentic.

contracts420

I don't see what people mean by "being authentic." Do girls not commit crimes or something? I gaurantee they do. Spend anytime at all in a low rental apartment building and you'll see it. I have. 

People who get in a tizzy and don't play a game because of the sex/ gender of the prtagonist aren't doing it right.

That being said, I think it'd be neat to actually explore the female mind in games more often.  Silent Hill 3 is one of the few games that do, and boy was it awesome.

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

I don't think it's a problem. Honestly I just figured they were being authentic.

Tropictrain

I don't see what people mean by "being authentic." Do girls not commit crimes or something? I gaurantee they do. Spend anytime at all in a low rental apartment building and you'll see it. I have.

I'm not saying that woman do not commit crimes. Of course you can find exceptions to the rule, but this isn't about small time drug dealers and such. The GTA series often portrays street gangs, mafia, hitmen, biker gangs and bank robbers. Give me the percentage of male to females for all of these... go ahead.

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

I don't think it's a problem. Honestly I just figured they were being authentic.

contracts420

I don't see what people mean by "being authentic." Do girls not commit crimes or something? I gaurantee they do. Spend anytime at all in a low rental apartment building and you'll see it. I have.

I'm not saying that woman do not commit crimes. Of course you can find exceptions to the rule, but this isn't about small time drug dealers and such. The GTA series often portrays street gangs, mafia, hitmen, biker gangs and bank robbers. Give me the percentage of male to females for all of these... go ahead.

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

I don't see what people mean by "being authentic." Do girls not commit crimes or something? I gaurantee they do. Spend anytime at all in a low rental apartment building and you'll see it. I have.

experience_fade

I'm not saying that woman do not commit crimes. Of course you can find exceptions to the rule, but this isn't about small time drug dealers and such. The GTA series often portrays street gangs, mafia, hitmen, biker gangs and bank robbers. Give me the percentage of male to females for all of these... go ahead.

Equality is not universal, amigo. I didn't say Grand Theft Auto was realistic, I said it was authentic. They even interviewed members of Street Gangs for San Andreas so they could be authentic to the lifestyle even if it's exaggerated for gameplay purposes.

As I said, women can commit crimes and do such things. But the majority in these professions and activities happen to be male, that's just the way it is. So I assume they are going with the majority in this case and trying to be authentic to a degree as well. Also I never said they couldn't add women, but that it makes more sense for them to have male protagonists in these titles. I am by no means against a female protagonist, but of course I'd certainly prefer a male character in games like this.

I've seen this issue debated a few times on this board. The idea of female protagonists in a video game: does it matter?

GTA V has three leads, all of them male.

Does this bother you at all? If one of the three were female, would you not buy GTA V? Does it even need discussed?

I wrote a blog about it, and would love any feedback. Have a read, if you please.

http://www.gamespot.com/users/experience_fade/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-26035885

experience_fade

Nah, it doesnt really matter what gender the person you play has, but as a male gamer i have to admit that i tend to identify more with a male character than a female :)

And GTA has male because its a GTA game and not Soccermom 8.

[QUOTE="experience_fade"][QUOTE="contracts420"]

I'm not saying that woman do not commit crimes. Of course you can find exceptions to the rule, but this isn't about small time drug dealers and such. The GTA series often portrays street gangs, mafia, hitmen, biker gangs and bank robbers. Give me the percentage of male to females for all of these... go ahead.

contracts420

Equality is not universal, amigo. I didn't say Grand Theft Auto was realistic, I said it was authentic. They even interviewed members of Street Gangs for San Andreas so they could be authentic to the lifestyle even if it's exaggerated for gameplay purposes.

As I said, women can commit crimes and do such things. But the majority in these professions and activities happen to be male, that's just the way it is. So I assume they are going with the majority in this case and trying to be authentic to a degree as well. Also I never said they couldn't add women, but that it makes more sense for them to have male protagonists in these titles. I am by no means against a female protagonist, but of course I'd certainly prefer a male character in games like this.

Oh come on people. A female gangster would not be impossible or inauthentic. Its not like she'd be running around complaining about broken nails and menstral cramps. Does anyone remember Catalina from San Andreas?

One article discussing this also mentioned Snoop from The Wire.

Or what about real life? Does "The Queen of Cocaine" Griselda Blanco ring any bells? She's dead now of course, but still, read this. She ordered over 250 killings.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they absolutely need a female protagonist. But saying its not authentic or not possible just isn't true.

 

Or what about real life? Does "The Queen of Cocaine" Griselda Blanco ring any bells? She's dead now of course, but still, read this. She ordered over 250 killings.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they absolutely need a female protagonist. But saying its not authentic or not possible just isn't true.

Lucky_Krystal

Lol, Cocaine Cowboys? That dudes love story with Griselda should have been San Andreas story truth be told. It's crazy that people allow one person to have that much power.

@ OP

I always find it comical as to why mature, male gamers get so gung ho over wanting to play as a female protagonist (assuming you're a male gamer OP). If the writers can create a good story worth paying $60 plus tax for, then by all means, make it happen. But to include a female protagonist just for the sake of including one to appease self entitlement would be wack.

How is not including a female protagonist a 'missed oppurtunity'? The minute you go into any project thinking 'we need to include this or cater towards that', you've already lost. No need to cater to every single group of people. Find a target audience, concoct a winning formula and run with it.

Why not just play the game for what it is? If this game lives up the hype, are you actually going to nitpick and critique it for not including a female protagonist? I can't believe you dudes (assuming you are dudes) are actually complaining about the lack of a female protagonist, lol!

So?

No creative work should have to be comprised of a list of bullet points. If the creators' vision for the game didn't feature a female lead, that's fine. I'd be fine if the game featured ALL female leads as well. I'm sort of sick of people thinking that every goddamn thing that gets made has to have this magical list of ingredients to be fair to everyone and well-rounded. Fvck that. Make the games as the vision of the creator(s) dictates. 

Shame-usBlackley

QFT.

It's kinda sad for you (yes you) not to play a game you would have otherwise wanted to play just because you end up findibng out that your preferred sex isn't a lead protagonist.

Actually it's completely ridiculous but whatever floats your boat, woman in the article.

I prefer male protagonists in general, and in GTA it wouldn't feel right playing a female. Anyone who complains is just being petty.

I prefer male protagonists in general, and in GTA it wouldn't feel right playing a female. Anyone who complains is just being petty.

Venom_Raptor

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

[QUOTE="experience_fade"] I guess they must have skipped on authenticity when it comes to gameplay though, right? Cause last time I checked, nobody has ever survived multiple rocket launcher hits. Or the impact of hitting a wall at 90mph. Or.... Suggesting that a female protagonist wasn't put in GTA V for authentic reasons is definitely sexist. Of course a female could be a hitman or be a big name in a street gang. Shooting a gun doesn't require a schlong, amigo! Furthermore, who says a protagonist of GTA V has to be any of those criminal professions?experience_fade

Equality is not universal, amigo. I didn't say Grand Theft Auto was realistic, I said it was authentic. They even interviewed members of Street Gangs for San Andreas so they could be authentic to the lifestyle even if it's exaggerated for gameplay purposes.

As I said, women can commit crimes and do such things. But the majority in these professions and activities happen to be male, that's just the way it is. So I assume they are going with the majority in this case and trying to be authentic to a degree as well. Also I never said they couldn't add women, but that it makes more sense for them to have male protagonists in these titles. I am by no means against a female protagonist, but of course I'd certainly prefer a male character in games like this.

I absolutely get what you are saying, but authenticity can certainly be seperate of gameplay. This is the case with many modern shooters as well.

Now I would prefer a male protagonist but I am by no means against having a female in the lead, especially when the game has 3 of them. But if they were to add a female character to the trio I'd hope they took advantage of this. I would want to see how a female would handle herself in a male dominated criminal world. Don't just give the character a gender neutral personality and challenges within the story. This is a problem with many female characters in gaming, they might as well be male because it comes down to nothing but window dressing.

I do believe it's more authentic to have a male lead in a game like this but if done right a female lead could be fresh and interesting. I'll admit, upon reflection it is puzzling why they would have 3 seperate characters and not make a single one of them female. It's not like they need to cater to the larger demographic because they would already have that covered with the other 2 leads.

A girl being the male protagonist of GTA seems wrong.

[QUOTE="Venom_Raptor"]

I prefer male protagonists in general, and in GTA it wouldn't feel right playing a female. Anyone who complains is just being petty.

experience_fade

I know Rockstar wouldn't make that kind of dumb move though.

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

I don't think it's a problem. Honestly I just figured they were being authentic.

contracts420

I don't see what people mean by "being authentic." Do girls not commit crimes or something? I gaurantee they do. Spend anytime at all in a low rental apartment building and you'll see it. I have.

I'm not saying that woman do not commit crimes. Of course you can find exceptions to the rule, but this isn't about small time drug dealers and such. The GTA series often portrays street gangs, mafia, hitmen, biker gangs and bank robbers. Give me the percentage of male to females for all of these... go ahead.

I don't know the exact percentages. But I'm sure it's not zero. And as far as I know, that's how many female protagonists GTA has had. And now that they have 3 protagonists, they still go with 3 guys.

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining. I'm going to buy this game and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. But people who think the idea of a female GTA protagonist is not authentic are fools. Yes, there are more men in this profession. So if most of them were women it'd be unrealistic. But if they include 1 it would not be less authentic.

Would these same people complain about seeing a male nurse in a fictional story? How about a male psychology student? Yes, these are the minority. But it doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm a male and I have a psychology degree. We totally exist, even if only 30% of psychology graduates are male. 

A blogger on Jezebel wrote an article on the issue.

http://jezebel.com/i-really-want-to-play-grand-theft-auto-v-but-im-not-g-727633804

Now I would prefer a male protagonist but I am by no means against having a female in the lead, especially when the game has 3 of them. But if they were to add a female character to the trio I'd hope they took advantage of this. I would want to see how a female would handle herself in a male dominated criminal world. Don't just give the character a gender neutral personality and challenges within the story. This is a problem with many female characters in gaming, they might as well be male because it comes down to nothing but window dressing.

 

I do believe it's more authentic to have a male lead in a game like this but if done right a female lead could be fresh and interesting. I'll admit, upon reflection it is puzzling why they would have 3 seperate characters and not make a single one of them female. It's not like they need to cater to the larger demographic because they would already have that covered with the other 2 leads.

contracts420

As for the main topic. I don't think it's a big issue either way. But I do think they think the gaming idustry could use more female leads. But I wouldn't complain about any game based on that.

A girl being the male protagonist of GTA seems wrong.

Ricardomz

[QUOTE="Ricardomz"]

A girl being the male protagonist of GTA seems wrong.

Jacanuk

You mean Nathan Drake?

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="Ricardomz"]

A girl being the male protagonist of GTA seems wrong.

Tropictrain

You mean Nathan Drake?

Also, just something I wanna add.

I don't even agree that playing a character of the same sex allows me to identify with them. OK, maybe it helps a bit. But that's hardly significent compared to everything else. Travis Touchdown from No More Heroes is male. But I sure as hell don't identify with him. Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, however, I come quite a bit closer to identifying with. Though she's a hell of lot braver then I am, and far more skilled. But the choices she makes seem more logical to me then someone like Travis. I agree with Jade more. I have no issue with Travis as a character though, he is awesome and the game is awesome. I just have nothing in common with him.

There is really only one character though that I can truly identify with. And that is Emil from Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World. He is very timid, and socially awkward. And he has no fighting experience and gets terrified when in dangerous situations. Which is pretty much like me. :P If Emil were a female character instead, it wouldn't be much different.

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"] A Women GTA lead is the same as wanting a male Tomb Raider.Jacanuk

You mean Nathan Drake?

But Tomb Raider always stars the same character. GTA doesn't. It's not the same at all. Turning Lara Croft male is like turning Mario female. That's changing a character into something they aren't. Making a female GTA lead is not doing that. 

But Tomb Raider always stars the same character. GTA doesn't. It's not the same at all. Turning Lara Croft male is like turning Mario female. That's changing a character into something they aren't. Making a female GTA lead is not doing that. 

Tropictrain

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

But Tomb Raider always stars the same character. GTA doesn't. It's not the same at all. Turning Lara Croft male is like turning Mario female. That's changing a character into something they aren't. Making a female GTA lead is not doing that. 

Jacanuk

Oh so you're talking about a new protagonist in a Tomb Raider game? You didn't say that. You said very specifically: "Lara Croft being female." And if they introduced a new protagonist in the Tomb Raider series after all this time, I'm sure we'll hear complaints whether she's female or male. It's not the same as a series that seems to be known for having different protagonists in every game. 

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

But Tomb Raider always stars the same character. GTA doesn't. It's not the same at all. Turning Lara Croft male is like turning Mario female. That's changing a character into something they aren't. Making a female GTA lead is not doing that. 

Jacanuk

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

Now I would prefer a male protagonist but I am by no means against having a female in the lead, especially when the game has 3 of them. But if they were to add a female character to the trio I'd hope they took advantage of this. I would want to see how a female would handle herself in a male dominated criminal world. Don't just give the character a gender neutral personality and challenges within the story. This is a problem with many female characters in gaming, they might as well be male because it comes down to nothing but window dressing.

I do believe it's more authentic to have a male lead in a game like this but if done right a female lead could be fresh and interesting. I'll admit, upon reflection it is puzzling why they would have 3 seperate characters and not make a single one of them female. It's not like they need to cater to the larger demographic because they would already have that covered with the other 2 leads.

lazyathew

As for the main topic. I don't think it's a big issue either way. But I do think they think the gaming idustry could use more female leads. But I wouldn't complain about any game based on that.

I never said they SHOULD always default to a male, but that they might as well considering the wasted potential to tell a unique perspective within a story centered around a female protagonist. Especially in a character driven story such as GTAV. Having a gender neutral female protagonist would be absolutely pointless beyond window dressing. Take advantage of the unique perspective the character could bring to the tale.

Having a female lead in a GTA game without ever addressing that she is most certainly going to be treated differently is a huge waste. All I'm saying is that I simply prefer a male character myself. I believe it's more plausible having a male protagonist as a bank robber, gangbanger or a drug dealing nut job in a fued with a large scale Biker Gang. That is my rational for why they chose 3 male characters. I also believe it's due to the fact that they have a male dominated fanbase as well.

You are simply making a bigger deal of this than it's actually worth. Women seem to want more female protagonists, but beyond window dressing what is the point if developers are simply creating gender neutral stories for them to inhabit. Take advantage of the oppertunity or maybe don't bother is all I'm saying.

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

Now I would prefer a male protagonist but I am by no means against having a female in the lead, especially when the game has 3 of them. But if they were to add a female character to the trio I'd hope they took advantage of this. I would want to see how a female would handle herself in a male dominated criminal world. Don't just give the character a gender neutral personality and challenges within the story. This is a problem with many female characters in gaming, they might as well be male because it comes down to nothing but window dressing.

 

I do believe it's more authentic to have a male lead in a game like this but if done right a female lead could be fresh and interesting. I'll admit, upon reflection it is puzzling why they would have 3 seperate characters and not make a single one of them female. It's not like they need to cater to the larger demographic because they would already have that covered with the other 2 leads.

contracts420

As for the main topic. I don't think it's a big issue either way. But I do think they think the gaming idustry could use more female leads. But I wouldn't complain about any game based on that.

I never said they SHOULD always default to a male, but that they might as well considering the wasted potential to tell a unique perspective within a story centered around a female protagonist. Especially in a character driven story such as GTAV. Having a gender neutral female protagonist would be absolutely pointless beyond window dressing. Take advantage of the unique perspective the character could bring to the tale.

Having a female lead in a GTA game without ever addressing that she is most certainly going to be treated differently is a huge waste. All I'm saying is that I simply prefer a male character myself. I believe it's more plausible having a male protagonist as a bank robber, gangbanger or a drug dealing nut job in a fued with a large scale Biker Gang. That is my rational for why they chose 3 male characters. I also believe it's due to the fact that they have a male dominated fanbase as well.

You are simply making a bigger deal of this than it's actually worth. Women seem to want more female protagonists, but beyond window dressing what is the point if developers are simply creating gender neutral stories for them to inhabit. Take advantage of the oppertunity or maybe don't bother is all I'm saying.

But why should they "might as well default to male?" Why are "gender neutral" males OK but not females? That's what I don't get.

OK, you answered that question when it comes to GTA. But why games in general? I just don't see how it can be seen as "absurdly pointless."