[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]
I pay taxes, which are used to finance public programs such as the construction of simple homes for those who lack somewhere to live, gives basic alimentation and several other policies that help those who need and the incapacitated. I'd say that's more than "soup".
F1_2004
Christians pay the same thing you do. Only they also give more of their money in addition to the amount they're required to give, out of goodwill. You pay taxes because you have to. Please, they've helped society much more than you ever will.
Religion in general holds far too much sway. There has never been an atheist President of the United States, there has only been one non-Protestant President. Religion, regardless of what individuals sects actually say about such matters, is dictating government policy on issues like gay marriage, sex education, and even educational requirements. The Pope, regardless of which religious sects actually follow him, commands respect typically reserved for heads of state. The Pope can get up on his global pulpit and tell people that this is the way they should feel about certain political issues and many Catholics will follow his every word. There is no way you can sit there and say that religion doesn't hold an enourmous amount of influence over world events and American society.
Again, goodwill is not exclusive to Christianity.
theone86
You're talking about the USA. The world is not the USA. Things are different as close as on the other side of your northern borders. The Pope is the spiritual leader of more people than any head of state in the world with the exception of one or two countries, obviously he holds a lot of sway over the many Catholics around the world. I don't see the problem with that in today's time. Oooh crusades blah blah blah, if you've ever met some average modern-day Christians after a Sunday sermon, you'll know that they're some of the most pleasant, kind and generous people in the world.
I live in the USA, of course I'm talking about the USA. I don't find Europe to be particularly enlightened on the topic of religion either, if you really want to get into it. The spreading Islamaphobia over there just confirms how much power religion has, even if there are supposed to be secular laws in place.
Okay, so you're not denying that the Pope can dictate to a large number of people exactly how they should vote on political matters, point goes to me. The problem with it is that he is telling people to base their voting decisions on not just religious doctrine but his onw interpretation of religious doctrine, to me that constitutes religion holding undue influence.
I've grown up around Christians, and the Christian I know are the most self-centered, pretentious, rude, overbearing, sanctimonious, douchebags I have ever met. They don't volunteer at soup kitchens, they don't give to charity, they only give to the church and the church only spends its money on proselytizing. Furthermore, whenever I meet a Christian inoutside of family and that churchthey seem dead set on doing the same to me, or talking down to me because I'm an atheist. Then when I read the news I see fundamentalist douchebags trying to force their beliefs on everyone else through government, I see Glenn asshat Beck villifying other religious people because they care more about doing good works than forcing religion on others, I see living pieces of fecal matter protesting funerals and harassing families in grief that have done absolutely nothing to deserve it, so you wanna turn this into a sob story about everything Christians do for everyone else, that's fine, but I have a few VERY valid objections to it.
One, there are plenty of Christians who do a lot of very ****ty things to other people in the name of their religion, and if you want to talk about the good you have to talk about the bad as well. I'm not above talking about the good that Christians do, I've never denied it, but the fact is that you are using the good that certain Christians do to detract from the bad that other Christians do. Two, you completely dismissive of the good that atheists do. You want to make this into a snob story about Christians and act like atheists aren't charitable people, well it's ****ing bull****. You're complaining about Christians not getting recognition for their charity and at the same time acting as if they own a copyright on charitable acts, something I have mentioned on numerous occasions that you continually ignore. You want to talk about the good that Christians do, then talk about the good that atheists do as well. Three, this has jack**** to do with atheists saying that there is no proof for god. Atheists are not attacking religion when they say that, they are not trying to villify religious people. it seems, however, that you and a few other posters in this thread take it that way. That's fine, you can be as ignorant as you want to our true intentions, but don't expect any sympathy when you come back with your little sob story about all the good Christians are doing because you know damn well that has nothing to do with what we're saying.
Fact: god's existence isn't empirically provable; fact: we're talking about critical discussions in an open forum. Fact A+fact B= you should expect people to openly question the existence of god in these threads, just as you should not expect that god's existence is a solid premise on which to form an argument in such a thread and forum. You want to talk about god's existence without it ever being questioned? Go to a religious forum, go to a religious union, go to a certain GS user's facebook page (yet another example of the religious being brazenly uncivil in the name of their religion). You're not, however, going to be able to go to forums with diverse topic matters and diverse user bases and expect to do that because you cannot expect that everyone is going to share you beliefs.
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