Obama says school year should be longer - States disagree

The vast majority of small businesses won't be effected by a repeal of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. And even if the Bush tax cuts expired entirely (something that at this point looks unlikely), the tax hike certainly won't overburden small businesses to the point where they can't hire anyone. At this point in time small businesses are much, much, much more worried about sales and revenue than about the Bush tax cuts expiring. The former is the main reason why they are unable to hire new employees. -Sun_Tzu-

From what I've been seeing on the news, small business owners are loathe to hire because not only due to the tax cuts possibly expiring, but coupled with the increased costs of employee healthcare under the new law.

▲ Won't happen. Kids dont have the attention span. Schools cant afford it. Teachers wont want to work that long. Kids shouldn't be out that late. Obama is crazy. ▲

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The vast majority of small businesses won't be effected by a repeal of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. And even if the Bush tax cuts expired entirely (something that at this point looks unlikely), the tax hike certainly won't overburden small businesses to the point where they can't hire anyone. At this point in time small businesses are much, much, much more worried about sales and revenue than about the Bush tax cuts expiring. The former is the main reason why they are unable to hire new employees. topsemag55

From what I've been seeing on the news, small business owners are loathe to hire because not only due to the tax cuts possibly expiring, but coupled with the increased costs of employee healthcare under the new law.

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The vast majority of small businesses won't be effected by a repeal of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. And even if the Bush tax cuts expired entirely (something that at this point looks unlikely), the tax hike certainly won't overburden small businesses to the point where they can't hire anyone. At this point in time small businesses are much, much, much more worried about sales and revenue than about the Bush tax cuts expiring. The former is the main reason why they are unable to hire new employees. -Sun_Tzu-

From what I've been seeing on the news, small business owners are loathe to hire because not only due to the tax cuts possibly expiring, but coupled with the increased costs of employee healthcare under the new law.

I saw something like this on Krugman's blog, but it was a bar graph and only included like four factors. Why the hell was insurance cost such an enormous worry earlier in the decade?

No. I wish that the time spent in school is shortened, and that time spent in school is spent well.

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The vast majority of small businesses won't be effected by a repeal of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. And even if the Bush tax cuts expired entirely (something that at this point looks unlikely), the tax hike certainly won't overburden small businesses to the point where they can't hire anyone. At this point in time small businesses are much, much, much more worried about sales and revenue than about the Bush tax cuts expiring. The former is the main reason why they are unable to hire new employees. -Sun_Tzu-

From what I've been seeing on the news, small business owners are loathe to hire because not only due to the tax cuts possibly expiring, but coupled with the increased costs of employee healthcare under the new law.

There's one other factor being overlooked when consumer confidence and buying starts to rise again - the price of a barrel of oil.

Cameron Hanover said in a report that the fundamentals currently existing should drive oil to half the price it is now, but greedy oil traders drive the price up at every small sign of good news.

In fact, oil was down to $76, and should have dropped more after the consumer confidence fell to its lowest point since February, but traders ignored this and drove the price up today.

People will spend more in stores if gasoline is cheaper.

Money is the panacea apparently.

I'm unsurprised that the states are opposed, considering that it would cost a lot more. I think that the government is only a relatively small part of the solution to US education woes. To me, the real problem is the attitude of disdain toward education that is so deeply embedded in our culture.xaos

you really think American culture looks with disdain upon education?

I can understand that, though I do not necessarily believe it.

On one hand, my first job out of college was as a chef and I was often looked upon as arrogant when I cited something from my education, or often called "College Boy" when I got something wrong (i.e. "c'mon, college boy, you should have known that! What do they teach you there at Cal Poly!?").

On the otherh and, our society tells us college is necessary, even to the point of making the demand for a BS so great to the point that A.) a BS degree doesnt count for much anymore, and B.) only 30% of applicants to many schools are accepted due to the sheer number of applications.

As I am fond of saying, the US is a country of tradeoffs, sacrifices and gains, etc...on one hand we continue to admire the Blue Collar worker and the American Dream, but on the other hand we push our kids to strive for a college education to the point it becomes devalued.

[QUOTE="xaos"]I'm unsurprised that the states are opposed, considering that it would cost a lot more. I think that the government is only a relatively small part of the solution to US education woes. To me, the real problem is the attitude of disdain toward education that is so deeply embedded in our culture.mrbojangles25

you really think American culture looks with disdain upon education?

I can understand that, though I do not necessarily believe it.

On one hand, my first job out of college was as a chef and I was often looked upon as arrogant when I cited something from my education, or often called "College Boy" when I got something wrong (i.e. "c'mon, college boy, you should have known that! What do they teach you there at Cal Poly!?").

On the otherh and, our society tells us college is necessary, even to the point of making the demand for a BS so great to the point that A.) a BS degree doesnt count for much anymore, and B.) only 30% of applicants to many schools are accepted due to the sheer number of applications.

As I am fond of saying, the US is a country of tradeoffs, sacrifices and gains, etc...on one hand we continue to admire the Blue Collar worker and the American Dream, but on the other hand we push our kids to strive for a college education to the point it becomes devalued.

To me, the real problem is the attitude of disdain toward education that is so deeply embedded in our culture.xaos

[QUOTE="xaos"]To me, the real problem is the attitude of disdain toward education that is so deeply embedded in our culture.entropyecho

On one hand, my first job out of college was as a chef and I was often looked upon as arrogant when I cited something from my education, or often called "College Boy" when I got something wrong (i.e. "c'mon, college boy, you should have known that! What do they teach you there at Cal Poly!?").

mrbojangles25

I've had a similar experience. I was waiting for someone outside of a lab at my university, which just happens to be in the vicinity of a machine shop where these guys were working on assembling some aluminum ventilation shafts. One of the guys, out of nowhere, said, "Hey, you looking for work or is it tea time? Do you want a real job?"

I laughed it off of course, but it was still pretty annoying. Besides, who the heck still uses the term "tea time" in the U.S.?

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

Relocate funding from defense to education. And 12 months will still offer a superior education. Over the course of high school, students will have gained an additional year over what they have now.

topsemag55

Why defense? We only spend 6% of GDP on defense, whereas total gov't spending is 45% of GDP.

Let's take out of other social programs first, and maneuver those funds into education.

Better yet, let's lower foreign aid - for a change - and put money in education.

Better yet, why not cut some from both military spending and foreign aid, as well as both streamline and cut social welfare?

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

Relocate funding from defense to education. And 12 months will still offer a superior education. Over the course of high school, students will have gained an additional year over what they have now.

chessmaster1989

Why defense? We only spend 6% of GDP on defense, whereas total gov't spending is 45% of GDP.

Let's take out of other social programs first, and maneuver those funds into education.

Better yet, let's lower foreign aid - for a change - and put money in education.

Better yet, why not cut some from both military spending and foreign aid, as well as both streamline and cut social welfare?

The military hires civilians, so if spending is cut enough, then some unemployment will occur. I remember when Congress mandated a huge cut...entire units were shut down. Military manpower stayed the same, but civilians were let go.

[QUOTE="osan0"]what are the hours per day in the states? in ireland its 9am-5pm mon-thur and 9-4 on friday as i remember it (secondary school) and then theres homework after that (some teachers wouldnt give homework on friday but most would).mrbojangles25

it depends.

in my high school, its generally 8am to 3pm. However, you could opt for A-period PE or band, so it could be 7AM to 2PM. As a senior (fourth year) in high school, you only need to take like 5 classes, so coupled with my A-period class I was in school from 7am-1pm. Sports practice was generally another 2-4 hours on top of that each day except days of games (Friday)

In elementary and middle school it was 8am to 3pm

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

Why defense? We only spend 6% of GDP on defense, whereas total gov't spending is 45% of GDP.

Let's take out of other social programs first, and maneuver those funds into education.

Better yet, let's lower foreign aid - for a change - and put money in education.

topsemag55

Better yet, why not cut some from both military spending and foreign aid, as well as both streamline and cut social welfare?

The military hires civilians, so if spending is cut enough, then some unemployment will occur. I remember when Congress mandated a huge cut...entire units were shut down. Military manpower stayed the same, but civilians were let go.

Your point being? If what we care about is unemployment, then we should be increasing spending on this like infrastructure projects.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="xaos"]I'm unsurprised that the states are opposed, considering that it would cost a lot more. I think that the government is only a relatively small part of the solution to US education woes. To me, the real problem is the attitude of disdain toward education that is so deeply embedded in our culture.xaos

you really think American culture looks with disdain upon education?

I can understand that, though I do not necessarily believe it.

On one hand, my first job out of college was as a chef and I was often looked upon as arrogant when I cited something from my education, or often called "College Boy" when I got something wrong (i.e. "c'mon, college boy, you should have known that! What do they teach you there at Cal Poly!?").

On the otherh and, our society tells us college is necessary, even to the point of making the demand for a BS so great to the point that A.) a BS degree doesnt count for much anymore, and B.) only 30% of applicants to many schools are accepted due to the sheer number of applications.

As I am fond of saying, the US is a country of tradeoffs, sacrifices and gains, etc...on one hand we continue to admire the Blue Collar worker and the American Dream, but on the other hand we push our kids to strive for a college education to the point it becomes devalued.

no that clarifies everything, and on that note I entirely agree.

Then you get the old timers going "Why sonny, back in my day, school was a privelage rabble rabble rabble..."

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Better yet, why not cut some from both military spending and foreign aid, as well as both streamline and cut social welfare?

chessmaster1989

The military hires civilians, so if spending is cut enough, then some unemployment will occur. I remember when Congress mandated a huge cut...entire units were shut down. Military manpower stayed the same, but civilians were let go.

Your point being? If what we care about is unemployment, then we should be increasing spending on this like infrastructure projects.

My point being that the Air Force hires people from companies such as IBM and General Electric (I was in radar). The civilians I worked with don't build highways and bridges - they maintained radars, mainframe computers, and satellite surveillance.:P

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="osan0"]what are the hours per day in the states? in ireland its 9am-5pm mon-thur and 9-4 on friday as i remember it (secondary school) and then theres homework after that (some teachers wouldnt give homework on friday but most would).osan0

it depends.

in my high school, its generally 8am to 3pm. However, you could opt for A-period PE or band, so it could be 7AM to 2PM. As a senior (fourth year) in high school, you only need to take like 5 classes, so coupled with my A-period class I was in school from 7am-1pm. Sports practice was generally another 2-4 hours on top of that each day except days of games (Friday)

In elementary and middle school it was 8am to 3pm

no we have school five days a week.

and yes, sports gets a lot more emphasis in the US I imagine. We still do PE, which is likely as much bullcrap here in the states as it is in Ireland :P .

Here, let me break it down for you:

My freshman year schedule was like this:

Get to school at 8
Go to ****by 8:05
Go to second ****by 9:05 (each ****was 55 minutes long, with a five-minute period in between)
We had a "brunch" break that was like 15-20 minutes long after second period
Go to third period
Go to fourth period
Go to fifth period
Lunch
Go to sixth period
Go to seventh period
Get out of school by like 3:15 or something
Go to football practice by 4:30

Then it changed up a little:
I joined "Sports" PE, which means that if you play a sport, you don't have to do PE. This was a "zero" period **** meaning it takes place by 7am to 8am.
Then I'd go to 1-6 period ****and get done by 2:10 or so

Junior and Senior year, my ****load was reduced to six units total, and I was still taking sports PE, so I was in school 7am-1:15pm when not playing a sport, and 8am-1:15pm when playing a sport.

180 days is perfect. There's no need to increase it.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

He's right. While the system needs other serious overhauls, students will need to spend more time in school in order to increase the quality of education.

Dark_Knight6

I'm pretty sure I never used the word "automatically".

No, we already spend enough time in school as it is. I would hate to have to be in school any longer. Luckily im a junior and only have 2 years left.

I bet all of you saying we should go year round are out of school and just want the kids to suffer. And honestly whats the big deal if we arent #1 in math and science? As long as someone out there in the world gets crap done it really doesnt matter where they live. Its not like only their country gets the benefits of advanced math and science.

And even if we did increase school, the taxes wouldnt matter. Its not like we dont already waste billions on unnecesary things

No. We don't need to work our children to death. I think school is too hard as it is these days.

Some schools around here are year round. I dislike year round as it really screws the kids out of having a summer. Yeah they get vacation time but their friends likely will not have the same vacation time they do. So instead of a couple months of fun with friends, you get a month of nothing to do because only you're out of school.

It does need to be longer. Students, especially in the inner-cities, regress a horrible amount over the summer. Our long summer vacation is a relic of our once mostly agrarian society, but we aren't living in that society anymore. The majority of people in the U.S. now live in an urban environment. There is no justification whatsoever for keeping the U.S. school year as short as it currently is.-Sun_Tzu-

You make a good point; however, states are strapped for the cash to pay for fuel for school buses, teachers' salaries, etc. for even a week's extension of schooling.

Plus property taxes are already at prohibitive levels in a lot of states.

i support this idea. or make the days longer.comp_atkins

No. We don't need to work our children to death. I think school is too hard as it is these days.

Some schools around here are year round. I dislike year round as it really screws the kids out of having a summer. Yeah they get vacation time but their friends likely will not have the same vacation time they do. So instead of a couple months of fun with friends, you get a month of nothing to do because only you're out of school.

Yes, it should be longer. Longer year = more learning.Acemaster27

your not the one going to school

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]i support this idea. or make the days longer.TBoogy

I honestly don't think a longer school day helps.. In the end one of the most important things a student needs to learn is independent studies with out a teacher over your shoulder the entire time..

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]i support this idea. or make the days longer.TBoogy

Please God, no. I already barely can't stand being there for 6 periods a day, I really wouldn't be able to stand no more than 7.

[QUOTE="TBoogy"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]i support this idea. or make the days longer.sSubZerOo

I honestly don't think a longer school day helps.. In the end one of the most important things a student needs to learn is independent studies with out a teacher over your shoulder the entire time..

[QUOTE="TBoogy"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]i support this idea. or make the days longer.Stanley09

As I just posted, why not both? :)TBoogy

I honestly don't think a longer school day helps.. In the end one of the most important things a student needs to learn is independent studies with out a teacher over your shoulder the entire time..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="TBoogy"] As I just posted, why not both? :)TBoogy

I honestly don't think a longer school day helps.. In the end one of the most important things a student needs to learn is independent studies with out a teacher over your shoulder the entire time..

I am discussing more along the lines of high school.. Then Elementry school.. Which seems to be the example of that.. I personally think they need to be more efficent and not longer lasting.. In just about everything I see the longer it is, the less efficent it is.. Take for instance American workers.. They have at best a week off a year on average, worker longer days, more hours a week then their European counterparts on average.. But studies have shown that European workers are far more efficient and less stressed.. Thats why often times I see in college this freshmen overwhelmed out of their minds after 4 years of college in which they have had the stuff shoveled to them instead of doing independent studies..

[QUOTE="TBoogy"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I honestly don't think a longer school day helps.. In the end one of the most important things a student needs to learn is independent studies with out a teacher over your shoulder the entire time..

Stanley09

.. I disagree.. The poor have numerous problems in this area, furthermore this excludes kids who are below high school that need to have some one watch them.

[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="TBoogy"] As I just posted, why not both? :)TBoogy

[QUOTE="TBoogy"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I honestly don't think a longer school day helps.. In the end one of the most important things a student needs to learn is independent studies with out a teacher over your shoulder the entire time..

Stanley09

[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="TBoogy"] At first I thought i had my first "disagreement" with you, as I did not like the idea of longer years when I read you say that I think. But I can see the benefit now. I also think slightly longer dys could be useful to students and parents both. I know a lady that has to leave work early every day to get her child. She is already PAYING for after school care, but then she has to leave early to get him by checkout time. Her take home pay would be much greater without these two expenses.sSubZerOo

.. I disagree.. The poor have numerous problems in this area, furthermore this excludes kids who are below high school that need to have some one watch them.

I'm unsurprised that the states are opposed, considering that it would cost a lot more. I think that the government is only a relatively small part of the solution to US education woes. To me, the real problem is the attitude of disdain toward education that is so deeply embedded in our culture.xaos

i think it is fine right now.

[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="TBoogy"] At first I thought i had my first "disagreement" with you, as I did not like the idea of longer years when I read you say that I think. But I can see the benefit now. I also think slightly longer dys could be useful to students and parents both. I know a lady that has to leave work early every day to get her child. She is already PAYING for after school care, but then she has to leave early to get him by checkout time. Her take home pay would be much greater without these two expenses.TBoogy

Yeah, more days.

I only see this as benefitting kids in the long-run. Kinda' transcends liberal and conservative ideology.

[QUOTE="TBoogy"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] because its cruel, pointless, and destructive?Stanley09

The quality of education needs to go up before the quantity does. If you add on another month, you're still going to be stuck with over burdened teachers with not enough resources, very limited creative freedom and bad textbooks.

[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="TBoogy"] LOL. A little over dramatic maybe? No one is trying to be cruel to you. Sometimes when people try to help you, it just seems that way. There is also a point, even if you don't agree with it. And it's SURELY not destructive. Those who feel "tortured" every day in school as is probably need some need that needs to be addressed. School is not the problem, it's where the issue manifests itself.TBoogy