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#1 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

@Master_Live said:

Now the US is arming the Kurds too, I guess you make it as you go along.

Do you have a problem with that m8

@whipassmt said:

Wouldn't bombing the gas chambers, have also killed the prisoner's in the concentration camps, or where the chambers far enough away? We didn't have smart bombs back then.

Bombing the camps themselves would've been more controversial, you would've been killing prisons but you'd also be giving other prisoners a chance to escape, destroying the infrastructure of the camp, and also sending the message "we know"

The rail lines though I don't see the excuse.

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#2 -Sun_Tzu-
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@Jacanuk said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:
@Jacanuk said:

@seahorse123 said:

So ISIS just came out of no where and has the ability to take over nations? No American military trained these fighters in Turkey and Jordan they fund them and their allies in the region openly fund the group as well. This is all part of a bigger plan by the globalists that you would not understand. And the fact that you don't know who globalists are really does say something about your knowledge of current affairs.

ISIS is like Taliban back during the USSR time, you can be 100% sure that they are fighting with american/european weapons. But ISIS cannot take over nations, i mean its not for nothing that they have switched from trying to depose Assad to going into the chaos we call iraq. Where they mostly because their shia affiliation has been able to take control of major cities and areas.

I disagree, I think it's very possible for ISIL to take over nations. They've already carved out a state for themselves between Syria and Iraq. If they decided to focus on Jordan (an idea they have publicly thought about) I have my doubts that the Jordanian military would be able to defend the kingdom on their own. They'd probably need Israel's help, which could be a blessing in disguise for other reasons. Having leverage over Jordan could be the necessary ingredient for finding a solution in the west bank.

Hmm, well so far they haven't really met any real opposition, i mean the iraqi military threw down their uniforms and american supplied weapons and ran so its not like its that hard to fight against an enemy who runs.

But we will see right now they are pressing their luck and if they keep going against people like the kurds they will start to anger their "allies" America and the west.

Do you think that Iraqi soldiers would've deserted if ISIL didn't have a formidable fighting force? They've also held their own against the Syrian army and the peshmerga in northern Iraq. This is a very well-trained, well-funded and well equipped military operation. I doubt that ISIL continues fighting in northern Iraq for much longer, US air strikes make things much harder, there's not much more they could possibly gain and its not like they have the support of the locals. They do in Jordan, there they could probably rile up some sort of insurgency. In fact there's already a lot of Jordanians fighting for ISIL, and the organization itself was founded by a Jordanian.

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#3 -Sun_Tzu-
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@Jacanuk said:

@seahorse123 said:

So ISIS just came out of no where and has the ability to take over nations? No American military trained these fighters in Turkey and Jordan they fund them and their allies in the region openly fund the group as well. This is all part of a bigger plan by the globalists that you would not understand. And the fact that you don't know who globalists are really does say something about your knowledge of current affairs.

ISIS is like Taliban back during the USSR time, you can be 100% sure that they are fighting with american/european weapons. But ISIS cannot take over nations, i mean its not for nothing that they have switched from trying to depose Assad to going into the chaos we call iraq. Where they mostly because their shia affiliation has been able to take control of major cities and areas.

I disagree, I think it's very possible for ISIL to take over nations. They've already carved out a state for themselves between Syria and Iraq. If they decided to focus on Jordan (an idea they have publicly thought about) I have my doubts that the Jordanian military would be able to defend the kingdom on their own. They'd probably need Israel's help, which could be a blessing in disguise for other reasons. Having leverage over Jordan could be the necessary ingredient for finding a solution in the west bank.

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#4 -Sun_Tzu-
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Dr. Strangelove

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#5  Edited By -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

@sibu_xgamer said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@sibu_xgamer said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Never, in the history of humanity, has anyone ever done anything purely for altruistic reasons.

I'm not so sure about that but ok, this is no place for this discussion.

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Of course the US doesn't really care about genocides, so what? So what that they have ulterior motives? Never, in the history of humanity, has anyone ever done anything purely for altruistic reasons. There's a clear difference between action and inaction for the Kurds, the Yezidis and other minorities in the region.

The sober reality is that it is logistically impossible for the US to stop every genocide in the world. Because of that there's going to have to be some metric used for justifying US involvement - the metric used is how important the region is strategically to the US. Do you have a better standard?

A better standard for me would be that the US doesn't get involved. Is not just that I think the US is incapable of dealing with any genocide around the world which is obvious, is also that I think that the US involvement based on whatever selfish reasons they have, have helped produce more genocides and problems that if they wouldn't get involved. So I find it pretty hard to support any US intervention right now even if it seems well intentioned.

lol

I can almost guarantee you that if starting tomorrow the US isolated itself, not only would the world not be better off - I'd argue that things would take a sharp turn for the worse. Just because the US does nothing doesn't mean that nothing happens.

What you are proposing is morally bankrupt. Simply because the US can't save everyone doesn't mean that we shouldn't save anyone. The Yazidi shouldn't be wiped out just because no one came to the aid of the Tutsi.

Man you think so highly of yourselves... This delusional view of the world is what makes your kind justify US interventions even when they provoke the type of genocides you so self-righteously are now condemning. Chances are that ISIS wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the US. Your guarantee is moot to me, I can almost guarantee the opposite and the region where I live, Latin America, suffered countless tragedies because some people like you thought that your government supporting ruthless dictators here somehow guaranteed that we would be better off, when in fact what the US wanted was to keep control not much else. So many people around the world is hopeful that someday americans will learn to keep their delusions of grandeur to themselves and stop trying to "save" everyone. The US is never there to save anyone, stop kidding yourself. At best they help someone so they help them back, usually with nefarious consequences. The US foreign policy is morally bankrupt and has been that way since not long after WW2.

US foreign policy has been morally bankrupt not long after WW2? Nonsense, US foreign policy has always been morally bankrupt. I don't have any delusions about American influence in the world.

It was America that dropped not one, but two atomic bombs, we fire bombed Tokyo. It was America that sat back and watched as the Soviet Union ethnically cleanse Eastern Europe of ethnic Germans. We bombed Dresden. We did nothing to aid the Poles during the Warsaw uprising. The US knew all about what was going on in Aushwitz but willingly chose not to bomb either the gas chambers or the railroads.

I'm not going to defend US foreign policy wholesale but you sound ridiculous m8. Sure, we usually only help people who we want to help us back, who doesn't? The US isn't the source of all the world's problems. The US isn't uniquely evil. At worst we are simply amoral. US leaders don't have a psychopathic desire to conquer the world for America, they just care about making money.

In terms of oppressive world powers you could do a lot worse. We aren't like the Soviets who wanted to provoke communist revolutions around the world, we aren't like the Nazis trying to implement some demented racial theory, and we certainly aren't like ISIS who are trying to purge the world of heretics and non-believers. Our foreign policy is simple, Quid Pro Quo, nothing more, nothing less. We don't care if you're a liberal democracy, an oppressive monarchy, a fascist or communist dictatorship, black, white, brown, christian, muslim, hindu, jewish, atheist; as long as you're willing to do business with us and the rest of the "free" world we don't have a problem. That sounds bad, and sometimes that puts us on the wrong side of history, but often (like right now in northern Iraq) we find ourselves on the right side of history. A coincidence, for sure, but it is what it is.

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#6 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
@lostrib said:

@Nuck81 said:

Miracles don't prove Jesus was divine. Afterall Jesus warns us of false profits performing miracles.

Lol, did Jesus work for the IRS or something?

"Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar"

It's never a bad idea to take tax advice from the Jews.

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#7 -Sun_Tzu-
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@sibu_xgamer said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Never, in the history of humanity, has anyone ever done anything purely for altruistic reasons.

I'm not so sure about that but ok, this is no place for this discussion.

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Of course the US doesn't really care about genocides, so what? So what that they have ulterior motives? Never, in the history of humanity, has anyone ever done anything purely for altruistic reasons. There's a clear difference between action and inaction for the Kurds, the Yezidis and other minorities in the region.

The sober reality is that it is logistically impossible for the US to stop every genocide in the world. Because of that there's going to have to be some metric used for justifying US involvement - the metric used is how important the region is strategically to the US. Do you have a better standard?

A better standard for me would be that the US doesn't get involved. Is not just that I think the US is incapable of dealing with any genocide around the world which is obvious, is also that I think that the US involvement based on whatever selfish reasons they have, have helped produce more genocides and problems that if they wouldn't get involved. So I find it pretty hard to support any US intervention right now even if it seems well intentioned.

lol

I can almost guarantee you that if starting tomorrow the US isolated itself, not only would the world not be better off - I'd argue that things would take a sharp turn for the worse. Just because the US does nothing doesn't mean that nothing happens.

What you are proposing is morally bankrupt. Simply because the US can't save everyone doesn't mean that we shouldn't save anyone. The Yazidi shouldn't be wiped out just because no one came to the aid of the Tutsi.

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#8 -Sun_Tzu-
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@Nuck81 said:

Miracles don't prove Jesus was divine. Afterall Jesus warns us of false profits performing miracles.

And yes, Muslims do believe Jesus was Crucified.

Section/Ruku Ruku 22 [Verses 153 to 162]: Transgressions of the Jews:

Chapter Chapter 4: (Al-Nisa’: The Women)

(Revealed at Madinah: 24 sections; 176 verses)

157 And for their saying: We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross,a but he was made to appear to them as such.b And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for certain:

They do not doubt that he was nailed to the cross, they doubt that he expired on it. This is the same translation that is in my personal copy of the Quran

That verse doesn't really support what you're saying. Pretty much all Muslims doubt that he was ever nailed to the cross.

And I don't see the relevance of your comment about the miracles that Jesus allegedly preformed. The fact remains that the bodily resurrection of Christ is integral to Christian theology. You are of course free to believe whatever you want to believe, but realize that what you are saying is extremely heterodox and contradicted by biblical and other Christian materials.

"If Christ was not raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your trust in God is useless"

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#9 -Sun_Tzu-
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@sibu_xgamer said:

@airshocker said:
@sibu_xgamer said:

ISIS needs to be stopped but I find it ironic that the US always ends up fighting the ones they supported, fighting against the same weapons they gave others. Like with Saddam, Bin Laden and now the Syrian rebels. Not to mention that Iraq was much safer under Saddam than what it became after the US decided it needed to get bombed. It seems the US are always busy cleaning up their crap, maybe they should stay out this time and let other arab countries deal with it.

Right, because the Arab countries really seem to give a shit if genocide occurs.

The avoidance of intervening in multiple African slaughters makes it clear that the west doesn't really give a shit about genocides either. The interests are clearly elsewhere, so again, what difference does it make? The US is clearly not making anything better with all their self-righteous actions.

Of course the US doesn't really care about genocides, so what? So what that they have ulterior motives? Never, in the history of humanity, has anyone ever done anything purely for altruistic reasons. There's a clear difference between action and inaction for the Kurds, the Yezidis and other minorities in the region.

The sober reality is that it is logistically impossible for the US to stop every genocide in the world. Because of that there's going to have to be some metric used for justifying US involvement - the metric used is how important the region is strategically to the US. Do you have a better standard?

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#10  Edited By -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

@sibu_xgamer said:

let other arab countries deal with it.

lol

No thank you