Xbox One S Has Slightly Better eSRAM Bandwidth, Compute Performance, And GPU TFLOPS, Can Play games Natively At 4K

MS is closing that PS4 power gap. The Xbox One S is now at 1.4TF vs 1.8TF on the PS4.

He get so anal about anything xbox,but some how he is not a lemming...hahahaa

The second interesting part is AMD's GCN with TSMC 16 nm FinFET GCN instead of Polaris GCN's Global Foundry's 14 nm FinFET.

Yeah that catch my attention to what gives with that Ron isn't Nvidia the one using 16nm or is AMD also on board.

NVIDIA is using TSMC's 16 nm FinFET+.

TSMC has two 16 nm FinFET types i.e. the older 16 nm FinFET and newer FinFET+.

Both XBO S and PS4 NEO(??) could be pushing AMD's TSMC's 16 nm FinFET allocation limit, hence Global Foundry's 14 nm FinFET.

There's an updated Jaguar/Puma in TSMC's 16 nm FinFET. I'm not sure PS4 NEO would be on TSMC or Global Foundry.

NEO's 911 Mhz GPU could indicate TSMC. The worst case working yield for Polaris 10 is RX-470 with 32 CU and 1200Mhz i.e. 4.91 TFLOPS.

Game consoles are configured by the worst working yield chips. Technically, failed NEO 36 CU chips can be configured as the original PS4 18 CU SKU e.g. PS4 slim.

The cheapest RX-460 has 1200 Mhz clock speed and 14 CU i.e. 2.15 TFLOPS with 112 GB/s peak memory bandwidth.

PS4 NEO could be both slim and SoC hardware update.

R7-360 has 1050 Mhz with 12 CU i.e. 1.61 TFLOPS and 104 GB/s peak memory bandwidth.

XBO S's GPU + ESRAM is faster on non-CU bound workloads when compared to 7790.

AMD ZEN is another FinFET production capacity consumer.

Why not both?

Difference is, one is real and the other is Mr. Roger's Neighborhood :P

In terms of GPU's FLOPS (shader) power, XBO S is about 77 percent of PS4 or PS4 is 1.3X over XBO S.

The original XBO is about 71 of PS4 or PS4 is 1.4X over XBO S.

No workarounds to close this gap.

------

XBO S is 1.14X the triangle power over PS4. No workarounds to close this gap.

TMUs are mostly memory bandwidth bound.

ROPS for 32bit data types are mostly memory bandwidth bound. TMUs can used as a workaround for ROPS' lesser 8 bit and 16 bit data types.

And then along comes the Mighty Scorpio that makes The Bore looks like a Atari 2600.

After all the crap cows dished out so far this gen, the salty cow tears are gonna be delish. lolol :P

@tormentos:

And you know this for a fact from where? Has Sony announced officially what the Neo's spec's will be?

@BigShotSmoov007:

Come on man the minimum is polaris 10 36 cu at 911mhz which is not only double the CU but also 111 mhz faster than the speed of the normal ps4.

So yeah is a given the specs were leak already.

Where in any of my post did I say anything about it being more powerful than the PS4?

Correction, the X1 AND PS4 are weak POS compared to the PC you idiot. Don't try and pretend like the PS4 is some powerhouse of a console. It might be more powerful than the X1 but it's far from being powerful. It was outdated the moment it launched.

The only ones crying here are you and your bovine friends.

Yeah but not for long and it's still a weak piece of hardware. Sorry to shatter your hopes and dreams cow but that a fact. Now go cry to mommy loser

We know nothing of the sort. The leak didn't say they would be at least a value, so even if they where true your spinning stuff as usual. (by using the word minimum).

And you claim to be a gamer yet don't actually play any games hahahaha

@charizard1605: Closer to Neo? It's 1.4 tflops lol.

The spec leak claim 36CU with 911mhz,quote DF stating the spec can be downgraded because i don't see it any where so the minimum will see is 36CU 911mhz which is more than double the PS4 as simple as that.

So yeah it should provide a bigger jump from the PS4 than the XBOS does over the XBO.

You should not argue stuff like this dude.

So when the rumors claim upclock you complain and now that i am using the leaked spec as they are you also complain.

Don't be a donkey, you know what you did.

The specs said the gpu would be precisely 36CU and 911mhz. Nothing about it being a minimum.

Your implying (and praying) it will be more.

The Xbox One S is the same fucking console shrunk in size. The improvements shouldn't even be considered so give up trying to compare.

You would have a problem me saying the Scorpio will have a minimum of 6 TFlops.

I think he said it was at minimum a Polaris variant since it had 36 CU's and a 911 Mhz clock. Not that there was a minimum amount of clock or CUs.

But what the fu** should i say.?

Is the spec leaked are 36CU nd 911mhz that is the minimum you will get,i say this because if the GPU is base on polaris 10 at 911mhz,that GPU is greatly underclock vs stock.

That is a more than 300mhz under clock so i can see the GPU speed being increase not decrease.

I wasn't comparing you moron,i only replying to @BigShotSmoov007 who on the page before say he would spec Neo jump to be bigger than the one on xbox on S,so i tell him how big the jump would be vs the XBOS which just got a clock boost.

Learn to fallow the argument before replying.

You should state its a rumour not play it out as a fact. We don't even have confirmation what GPU it will have in it. You know what you are doing. Your implying it will have an increase, based on hope built on rumours.

For all we know the Scorpio could be under clocked so its fair to say it will have a minimum of 6Tflops.

Link to where Sony said anything you just said and stop playing specs and numbers our your ass. Where did Sony say anything about the specs of the Neo? Hell, no one even knows what the damn official name will be, let alone the specs of it, but I'm sure you have an answer to that as well huh lol.

Dude yes we do have if you want to ignore the leaks fine.

It is polaris 10 as there is no other GCN with 36CU dude,this is why it has being so easy to pinpoint it.

No i am not implying it will get an increase,all i say the minimum is 36CU and 911 mhz because that is what the leak claim,anything after that is gravy.

Yes it could problem is that to under clock scorpio from Vega it would be a HUGE ASS underclock as Vega is 64CU,which is why polaris 10 also make sense for scorpio as running stock it reach 5.83TF which is a hair under 6TF and MS has speak of the system as a 6TF machine,rather than a 6TF GPU.

Here is Phil Describing it as a 6TF MACHINE,when you say that you are implying 6TF system not just GPU,so maybe it is using polaris 10 as well exactly as the RX480 with 5.83TF and the rest of the flop count comes from the CPU it self so there you have it 6TF machine.

And before you cry this is MS which has being incredibly imaginative when it comes to say anything about their product,using wording that you need a PHD in advertising to really comprehend.

There is a bigger chance that polaris 10 is inside the xbox one than Vega which is greatly over 6TF and would need to be downclock a world to reach 6TF it just doesn't make sense to downclock a strong GPU to 6TF when you have one normally pulling 5.83TF which from 6TF is basically nothing.

@tormentos: 36CU is a rumour 911mhz is a rumour.

Using your analogy Sony are doing exactly what you are claiming Microsoft would be stupid to do.

You have no facts, but if you want to make shit up and claim specs are a minimum. Thats fine we can do same.

Microsoft Scorpio with a minimum of 6TFlops of GPU power is going to kick ass.

So basically The Xbox One S is what the original Xbox One should have been when it came out nearly 3 years ago.

Then perhaps it wouldn't have been spanked by PS4.

XBO Scorpio's engineers has defined 6 TFLOPS of GPU.

When there's enough TFLOPS for a particular workload, effective memory bandwidth has higher priority i.e. "more than 320 GB/s of memory bandwidth".

Math for effective memory bandwidth estimate based from Polaris

Scorpio: (320 x 75.78 percent efficient) x 1.36 Polaris memory compression booster = 330 GB/s

NEO: (218 x 75.78 percent efficient) x 1.36 Polaris memory compression booster = 225 GB/s

NEO's effective memory bandwidth is similar to RX-470, hence expect similar performance.

In terms of effective memory bandwidth, Scorpio is 1.47X faster than NEO.

In terms of TFLOPS, Scorpio is 1.43X faster than NEO.

Scorpio's higher TFLOPS is being backed by higher effective memory bandwidth.

Scorpio's higher memory bandwidth is not gimped by XBO's tiling/segmented ESRAM workarounds.

Remember, DF has claimed R7-265 ~= PS4. CPU's memory bandwidth consumption is largely irrelevant.

Vega 10 and 11 refers to a specific ASIC design.

Vega refers to 4X perf/watt general design.

In terms of GPU FLOPS(shader), NEO based on 911Mhz with 36 CU is 2.3X faster than PS4's GPU.

NEO: (218 x 75.78 percent efficient) x 1.36 Polaris memory compression booster = 225 GB/s

In terms of effective memory bandwidth, NEO is 1.60X to 1.67X faster than PS4.

Sony didn't backed NEO GPU's 2.3X with the same 2.3X memory bandwidth.

The best improvement for NEO at this late stage would be increasing the memory bandwidth.

So glad I got rid of my Xbox One. Early Xbox One adopters really can't catch a break. Now the slim is showing performance increases in games with unlocked frame rates and more consistent frame rates in fixed frame games. 3-5 fps extra in project cars, in a racing game, that's a big deal. Consistent performance in Rise of the Tomb Raider. Smoother performance in Arkham Knight. Smoother Xbox 360 BC.

Just f**k off MS.

I would have been a bit pissed, if the new iteration would have been like a 2TF console :P Now I don't have to think about trading mah Bone for it.

If I see a sweet Black Friday deal this holiday I'm going have me a X1S and put my OG in my bedroom. This sucker just sounds too good to pass up. :D

Yes and i quote the xbox HEAD Phil Spencer so if you want to discredit him the better for me latter one,when he come with some shit and i quote you.

Fact is he refer to scorpio as a 6TF machine from 5.83 to 6TF is nothing man 170Gflops that it total bullshit is nothing.

So having the rest of the flops calculated by GPU means nothing,as he is referring to the system as 6TF,in fact being 6TF or 5.83 would yield basically the same result performance wise,probable 1 frame more or 2,so trying to argue 6TF over 5.83 is stupid is nothing.

You believe all bandwidth on Scorpio is reserve for the GPU and the CPU and system will use nothing,maybe you should look at the PS4 and how its 176GB/s have a CPU reservation and how the XBO as well has one.

I told him that 20 times comparing the bandwidth of scorpio vs the RX480 is moronic,because on PC you have a second bandwidth from DDR3 a theoretical 68gb/s from DDR3 and that if they use DDR3 and not DDR4 which reach even higher.

So if you join both bandwidth on PC you get more bandwidth than scorpio has,scorpio bandwidth is not just for GPU.

Also bandwidth without power mean shit,having more bandwidth doesn't necessary means it would yield much more performance,according to MS the xbox one GPU has more bandwidth than a 7790,yet is not even close to a 7790 performance wise.

Hell the 7770 beat it on most games,and has 72GB/s when the xbox one has more than 140GB/s so you see bandwidth without power is nothing,also any bandwidth arguments from MS should be taken with a ocean full of salt MS hasn't being honest about bandwidth for 2 generations in a row.

I QUOTE PHIL SPENCER CALLING THE XBOX A 6TF MACHINE DEAL IT WITH IT.

Fact is downclocking Vega to 6TF make no fu**ing sense what so ever,the scorpio doesn't have all bandwidth to the GPU period that is reality and the difference between 5.83tf and 6TF is NOTHING,in fact if MS tell me it is 5.83TF i would not think any less of the GPU because 170Gflops is NOTHING.

First up, we should tackle the issue of how reliable the leak is and by extension, whether the proposed spec is real or not. Up until very recently, exposure to 'PlayStation 4K' throughout the development community was limited. We have been sitting on a number of details awaiting a second source before going to press, but events have overtaken us somewhat - Sony is now openly sharing this specification with developers and while Giant Bomb beat us to the punch, we have access to the same documentation. There is no doubt - this is real. This is the new, more powerful PlayStation 4.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed

The leak is real the spec are real and you are GRASPING.

Last leak we had like this wasn't even remotely as confirmed as this one,and all of them were true on both cases weak xbox,with kinect no used games,always online everything down right to the specs,the same for the PS4 which only thing that changed was ram because sony double the amount which took even developers by surprise.

So again you are grasping badly.

From Phil Spencer it self 6TF Machine...lol

But look at it this way if the GPU was 6TF or 5.83 it would not matter because the gap in flops is so small it would not amount to 3 frame different in performance dude.

And you'll see the same sort of improvements if not more from the Neo to the PS4 so what's your point LOL. Are early adopters of the PS4 not catching a break either?

@tormentos: The leak is real the spec are real and you are GRASPING.

I wasnt the person creating threads claiming Sony will increase clock speed.

Now your saying the leak is real and the specs are rock solid real.

Make your mind up. Either they are real and it will release with 4.3Tflops and you where grasping or you are wrong here.

That was a RUMOR yeah that one,it could be true or fake.

Now what DF stated is TRUE is not a rumor any more,hell it was confirmed by the leaked document it self,which was posted on a thread not so long ago.

So the spec are real the minimum you get is 36CU 911mhz,is sony decide to stick with those or not who knows,but i am 100% sure it would not be less than that,more maybe in the form of higher clock speed but less no chance in hell,when i say more is all based on 911mhz being to low vs what the downclock was on the PS4 GPU vs the 7870 clock speed.

Increasing clock speed is not hard and MS did it already without problems so did sony with the PS3 as the RSX is higher clocked than the first stock 7800gtx.

He is just bitter because the xbox was so weak at launch,that is all i am sure he will be latter on get an XBO S or scorpio,as he moved to PC because of power nothing more..lol

The article you linked was 4 months ago, before you created the treads.

Come on man

Wrong. You are supplying your 6 TFLOPS interpretation while Microsoft's supplied it's own 6 TFLOPS interpretation i.e. "6 TFLOPS GPU" DEAL WITH IT.

The box we are building, it will have 8 CPU cores, 320 GB/s of memory bandwidth, 6 TFLOPS of GPU power.

Your reserve CPU bandwidth argument is a load of bullshit since your argument is a double edge sword that can be applied for both NEO and Scorpio.

DF has shown R7-265 delivered PS4 like results with similar graphics details i.e. PS4's CPU memory bandwidth consumption is largely irrelevant. I have shown console programmers optimized within CPU's internal cache sizes.

Optimized within CPU's internal cache size is X86 optimization 101.

There's nothing new with SPE's local memory optimizations.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/64-ia-32-architectures-optimization-manual.html

Read chapter 7 fool.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/11/naughty-dog-explains-ps4s-cpu-memory-and-more-in-detail-and-how-they-can-make-them-run-really-fast/

I$ = instruction cache

D$ = data cache

I optimized my C++ code against Intel Core iX series.

AMD Jaguar CPU has 64 KB L1 cache(32 KB split between instruction and data storage) which is large and it's the same size as Intel Core iX series. If I optimized code for Intel Core iX series, then AMD Jaguar can also benefit and the opposite is also true for AMD Jaguar to Intel Core iX.

How do you know what he means? I didn't ask you to interpret what he said with your fanboys nonsense.

Because he is a bigger lemming than you... I know and i already argue him on the matter..lol

Yawn, and no one is a bigger idiot than you on here, that's been proven. You probably don't even play anything, you just troll in here day and night.

Don't fallow you on your complain this time. Please explain.

BUllshit...

He claimed 6TF MACHINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..

He didn't say there is a 6TF GPU inside this machine,he say 6TF machine which imply the system is 6TF not just the GPU again wording and MS are a problem always.

But i don't even know why you fu**ing even care,because if it was like i say and it is 6TF including CPU and GPU still the performance delta between 5.83 and TF GPU is minimal at best,it would not be anything bad or that could change the performance level in any significant way.

In other words 6TF GPU or 6TF machine is basically the same shit.

BUllshit ok then..

Link to were MS CLAIM THAT 320GB/S ARE SOLELY FOR GPU.

Link or your full of shit as simple as that.

Well it should have the R265 is a refresh 7850 which has 1.76TF the PS4 is 1.84TF not even 100Gflop gaps so they should perform the same or close.

Again i want a link were MS state that all 320GB/s are only for GPU and nothing at all for system and CPU that is the only way you are winning this argument.

@tormentos: You really want to go quoting people and using that.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52573/xbox-scorpio-confirmed-rocks-6tflops-4k-gaming-vr-coming-2017/index.html

Lists most of the quotes used and your missing all of them.

to summarise

more than 320Gb/s memory bandwidth

6TFLOPS of GPU power

A monster thats going to make everyone happy.

Give it up man.

damn.. i see some old fart praying to daddy sony to increase the clock speed of lolstation neo,so he can defend it 24/7 on a forum lol.

BULLSHIT. You are supplying YOUR 6 TFLOPS interpretation while Microsoft's supplied it's own BETTER detailed 6 TFLOPS interpretation i.e. "6 TFLOPS GPU" DEAL WITH IT.

Your reserve CPU bandwidth is a load of bullshit i.e.

1. In practical application.

2. DF has shown R7-265 delivered PS4 like results with similar graphics details i.e. PS4's CPU memory bandwidth consumption is largely irrelevant. I have shown console programmers optimized within CPU's internal cache size. Your reserve CPU memory bandwidth argument has been nuked by DF's examples.

3. Optimized within CPU's internal cache size is X86 optimization 101. Memory bandwidth reduction measure.

4. Scorpio is PS4 like model with a better specs. Stop being a hypocrite i.e. your reserve CPU memory bandwidth argument is worst on NEO's lower memory bandwidth than on Scorpio.

5. Fusion links with CPU's cache you fool. Memory bandwidth reduction measure.

6. Fusion's zero copy. Memory bandwidth reduction measure.

7. X86's variable instruction length a.k.a. instruction compression Use the shortest instruction length. Memory bandwidth reduction measure. ARM has it's own 16bit length compressed instructions with 32bit/64bit operations. X86 goes down to 8 bit (1 byte) instruction length. Decompressed within the CPU for RISC operation i.e. fix length instructions.

8. X86's complex (multi-function) instructions a.k.a. instruction compression. Memory bandwidth reduction measure. Reduced instruction issue slot consumption measure. Decompressed within the CPU for RISC operation i.e. fix length instructions.

There are technical reasons why both ARM and X86 beats other pure RISC CPU instruction sets.

That'd be nice, but I'd expect deals on the X1 instead of the newer X1S for Black Friday.

Don't know, did PS4 owners lose all exclusives and console concept too? Everything MS can do to make the original Xbox One more and more redundant, they're doing. MS had early adopters pay for their mistakes. And that expensive high tech camera that turned into an ornament, that was a highlight.

Don't think that's the same with the PS4. PS4 owners trusted what they were getting and got it. What's the worst that happened to PS4 owners, slight price drops over the years? Xbox One owners got heavy price drops within months.

This is just the latest layer of crap on top of MSs mistake of a console.

If someone got an Xbox One recently, that's not a problem, because they knew the deal. This PS4 wannabe is no where near the console early adopters bought.

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSYBO1BrB1I

The above screenshot was from Ubisoft's financials and they are mostly multi platform games i.e. XBO revenue beats PC. This is one of the reasons why MS doesn't fear PC and XBO sharing MS exclusives. Like MS Surface tablets, MS will keep selling XBO hardware.

Xbox One S wouldn't be able to do native 4K games any better than the normal PS4, actually less so because:

Xbox One GPU: 1.3 TFLOPs and 13.6 Billion pixels/sec fillrate (16 ROPs * 853 MHz)

XBox One S: 1.4 TFLOPs and 14.6 billion pixels/sec fillrate (16 ROPs * 914 MHz)

PS4 GPU: 1.8 TFLOPs and 25.6 billion pixels/sec fillrate (32 ROPs * 800 MHz

People almost never mention pixel fillrate anymore, just TFLOPs. Even though fillrate is not as important as it used to be (shader ops took over), you still need much higher pixels/sec to render at native 4K (or any res) with a decent framerate while at least maintaining the same level of graphical fidelity. The lower pixel fillrate on original Xbox One is one of the main reasons many of its games were sub-1080p (900p, 720p) while the PS4 versions were 1080p

Microsoft never said Xbox One S would do games at 4K, only HDR in games, and 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray movies and streaming video.

They have a console specifically for native 4K games, it's called Project Scorpio, for Holiday 2017.

ronvalencia, do you even play video games? I always see you post a metric fuckton of benchmarks n other nerdy shiz but never heard a single of your opinions about any games ever released.