LOL! I missed that on my first read through, lol. So this is news from last year E3. Good lord, I can't imagine the Sony fans wrecking themselves any worse than this. This is their REKT of the day thread, lol.
Microsoft at E3 2016: We are releasing a 6TF machine
Digital Foundry 01/24/2017: Microsoft is releasing a 6TF machine
Sony Fans: Bahahahahaha....you Xbox fans are getting a 6TF machine
Xbox Fans: We are getting a 6TF machine
Sony Fans:
No argument there, but ya'll were saying this thing would be the 4k native godbox one. So, there's that. . .
Also, if Scorpio takes off real well like you are hoping, it will forsake the original XBox One fanbase due to it being much simpler for developers to not code significantly for the ESRAM.
Leave it to digital foundry to read the white paper and get the information wrong un believable. The checkboard rendering is to provide options for developers who do not want to use the full compute of the console to render 4k.
"But to clear, this is speculation based on what we now know about new Radeon features open to Microsoft. The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen, but from the whitepaper details to the Vega enhancements available to Microsoft, we should be a seeing a highly capable 4K contender."
WTF?
Why even write the article based on a white paper release after the initial reveal?
It's not like the console is going to change much between the reveal and release.
But but but we were promised by the Lems this would be a 4k native juggernaut. I was told I was a rabid cow hater for saying 6 TFlops would not be enough.
Wat happen? Can a lemming please explain? My feeble Cow brain cannot handle the alternative facts.
Well it's in the article...
How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen, but from the whitepaper details to the Vega enhancements available to Microsoft, we should be a seeing a highly capable 4K contender.
If it's only going to be a slight uptick from a Pro, might as well just wait until PS5 for a new consy. If lems can easily wait this long for their Apologybox after being treated with the dog turd that is Cancelbox One then I don't see why waiting for a next gen PlayStation system is so far fetched.
No argument there, but ya'll were saying this thing would be the 4k native godbox one. So, there's that. . .
Also, if Scorpio takes off real well like you are hoping, it will forsake the original XBox One fanbase due to it being much simpler for developers to not code significantly for the ESRAM.
2 assumptions without any proof in the same post, nice one... Classic scared cow behaviour.
Microsoft at E3 2016: We are releasing a 6TF machine
Digital Foundry 01/24/2017: Microsoft is releasing a 6TF machine
Sony Fans: Bahahahahaha....you Xbox fans are getting a 6TF machine
Xbox Fans: We are getting a 6TF machine
Sony Fans:
No argument there, but ya'll were saying this thing would be the 4k native godbox one. So, there's that. . .
Also, if Scorpio takes off real well like you are hoping, it will forsake the original XBox One fanbase due to it being much simpler for developers to not code significantly for the ESRAM.
Who is this y'all? I never once thought Scorpio was going to be a 4K machine. I have claimed numerous times that the most powerful PC's out there are just now being able to push 4K. I also only quoted what MS said, and that is their FIRST PARTY TITLES will be 4K. I have been under the impression that no matter what MS says, the MAJORITY of games on Scorpio will be up-scaled in some fashion to 4K like the PS Pro, but offering better performance and resolution than the PS Pro. As a manticore, it easy for me to see the obvious.
I also never said the Scorpio was going to take off. I said it will have hot sales at the start for the hardest of hardcore, then will drop WAY THE **** DOWN in sales.
But then again, you made your comments based on Xbox only biased gamers. I can understand why you made that comment, but it doesn't pertain to me.
Anyone who thought it was going to be true 4K are thick as shit. It better not be using higher clocked jag cores, another bottleneck like the PS Pro.
Yeah, it would take 9 tflops on current gpu architecture to really do the trick. Both the Pro and the Scorpio are obviously positioned to be halfway upgrades while 4k tvs are on shelves already.
It's not all bad, but expectations were put to the goddamn moon here on System Wars while the same fanbase was crapping all over the PS4 Pro when the reality is that they are more or less getting the same box. There is a wide gulf between the performance needed for a 1080p console and what is needed for a 4k console. That's the reality. All System Wars'ing aside, it's a good sign that at least a few of the Lems don't see this as necessarily bad thing. Not all of them were towing the "party line" that Scorpio was going to be a 4k silver bullet.
Anyone who thought it was going to be true 4K are thick as shit. It better not be using higher clocked jag cores, another bottleneck like the PS Pro.
True 4k? WTF is true 4K? A game is either running 4K or its not. Whether or not a game runs at 4k on the Scorpio or Pro is ENTIRELY dependent on the game.
@Shewgenja: Scorpio has cows up early grasping at straws. Article is nothing but speculation
"But what the whitepaper doesn't cover could also prove instrumental in Scorpio delivering more titles that run effectively on 4K screens. In our original Scorpio spec analysis, our primary concern was the size of the processor based on the six teraflop GPU, where a 56 or 60 compute unit chip seemed most plausible. We now know that AMD's next-gen Vega GPU boasts considerably improved frequencies - and the faster it runs, the fewer CUs are required to hit the 6TF target. Just 40 CUs at 1.18GHz could deliver Scorpio's stated 6TF, or 44 at 1.07GHz. On top of that, Vega's use of a tile-based rasteriser (widely seen as the key to Nvidia's performance lead in its Maxwell GPU technology) could also yield dividends in delivering a more capable 4K console.
But to clear, this is speculation based on what we now know about new Radeon features open to Microsoft. The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen, but from the whitepaper details to the Vega enhancements available to Microsoft, we should be a seeing a highly capable 4K contender."
This is a leak from the initial Scorpio reveal when the design was still a concept. Lots of things could have changed since then especially since at CES it's as pretty much acknowledged it will be using Vega/Ryzen.
The change in ESRAM doesn't matter when the games wil be in UWP they will still scale.
I don't really see your point. Most Xbox fans here will be upgrading anyway.
You need to stick to things you know about like shovelware on PSVR and how it will sell 3 million units or how shitty PS Pro is.
Greatness finally 'arrived' in 2017 and all you guys still talk about is Scorpio. Shook.
Anyone who thought it was going to be true 4K are thick as shit. It better not be using higher clocked jag cores, another bottleneck like the PS Pro.
True 4k? WTF is true 4K? A game is either running 4K or its not. Whether or not a game runs at 4k on the Scorpio or Pro is ENTIRELY dependent on the game.
You know what you guys have been saying about Scorpio since last year. Please don't make me go back and post links.
Anyone who thought it was going to be true 4K are thick as shit. It better not be using higher clocked jag cores, another bottleneck like the PS Pro.
True 4k? WTF is true 4K? A game is either running 4K or its not. Whether or not a game runs at 4k on the Scorpio or Pro is ENTIRELY dependent on the game.
You know what you guys have been saying about Scorpio since last year. Please don't make me go back and post links.
Can you post a link that actually shows the Scorpio not rendering 4K? Oh wait you can't, because you're posts are as big as a lie as the 8TF Scorpio article.
I find it interesting that Digital Foundry created an article about a nearly 1 year old white paper, then they finish the article stating they can't wait to see the final specs.
Anyone who thought it was going to be true 4K are thick as shit. It better not be using higher clocked jag cores, another bottleneck like the PS Pro.
True 4k? WTF is true 4K? A game is either running 4K or its not. Whether or not a game runs at 4k on the Scorpio or Pro is ENTIRELY dependent on the game.
You know what you guys have been saying about Scorpio since last year. Please don't make me go back and post links.
Care to post proof it won't be playing games in 4K? Don't tell me this topic is your proof? I think it'd be more effective if your post just contained a bunch of moooo's from you instead. You'd look more credible then.
I find it interesting that Digital Foundry created an article about a nearly 1 year old white paper, then they finish the article stating they can't wait to see the final specs.
No one points out that they didnt release the actual paper so people can see what it says. Instead they "translate" the article and add their own syntactical sugar.
But but but we were promised by the Lems this would be a 4k native juggernaut. I was told I was a rabid cow hater for saying 6 TFlops would not be enough.
Wat happen? Can a lemming please explain? My feeble Cow brain cannot handle the alternative facts.
"But to clear, this is speculation based on what we now know about new Radeon features open to Microsoft. The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen, but from the whitepaper details to the Vega enhancements available to Microsoft, we should be a seeing a highly capable 4K contender."
WTF?
Why even write the article based on a white paper release after the initial reveal?
It's not like the console is going to change much between the reveal and release.
What?
"seriously" meaning new parts? Of course
but if they unlocked more CUs and kept the same parts, that alone can increase power/capability/Tflops
Also, this article really annoys me. I love reading techy (wife calls them nerdy, but whatever) things but outdated sources really annoys me, especially when it comes to technology.
DF is usually good about that but they screwed up here. I wasted my time reading that.
A few tweaks to the GPU could make a huge difference in ANY console, not so much on PC.
On top of that, they arent sure about the CPU but they threw out speculation anyway.
Thats a no-no from a tech site unless you make it clear. They didnt until the very last paragraph.
@kvally: yeah they know the business of getting reads as well as anyone else. It's still a wait-and-see situation, clearly
I can't blame them for that. If it generates ad revenue for them and keeps them in business for gamers to visit free daily, it's just the cost of doing business. Oh well, I still found it an interesting read. And if the white paper when it is released at the end of this year is the same one from last E3, I will be happy. They said 6TF, and if they give us 6TF, then I am not let down.
Anyone who thought it was going to be true 4K are thick as shit. It better not be using higher clocked jag cores, another bottleneck like the PS Pro.
True 4k? WTF is true 4K? A game is either running 4K or its not. Whether or not a game runs at 4k on the Scorpio or Pro is ENTIRELY dependent on the game.
You know what you guys have been saying about Scorpio since last year. Please don't make me go back and post links.
Care to post proof it won't be playing games in 4K? Don't tell me this topic is your proof? I think it'd be more effective if your post just contained a bunch of moooo's from you instead. You'd look more credible then.
The word you are looking for is 'native'. You did not have checkerboard rendering in your lemming vocabulary before this thread. It's okay. We're talking about 4 times the pixel density of 1080p here. There's really no shame in it. No one wanted a $599 console. We learned that last generation.
"But to clear, this is speculation based on what we now know about new Radeon features open to Microsoft. The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen, but from the whitepaper details to the Vega enhancements available to Microsoft, we should be a seeing a highly capable 4K contender."
WTF?
Why even write the article based on a white paper release after the initial reveal?
It's not like the console is going to change much between the reveal and release.
What?
"seriously" meaning new parts? Of course
but if they unlocked more CUs and kept the same parts, that alone can increase power/capability/Tflops
Also, this article really annoys me. I love reading techy (wife calls them nerdy, but whatever) things but outdated sources really annoys me, especially when it comes to technology.
DF is usually good about that but they screwed up here. I wasted my time reading that.
A few tweaks to the GPU could make a huge difference in ANY console, not so much on PC.
On top of that, they arent sure about the CPU but they threw out speculation anyway.
Thats a no-no from a tech site unless you make it clear. They didnt until the very last paragraph.
@Shewgenja: what the **** are white papers and what does this mean?
Is this speculation, facts, I mean more and more details or "leaks" should come out because production of this thing should be started or coming very soon if it's shooting for a November release date.
@Shewgenja: what the **** are white papers and what does this mean?
Is this speculation, facts, I mean more and more details or "leaks" should come out because production of this thing should be started or coming very soon if it's shooting for a November release date.
This white paper, is just a research paper from Microsoft about Project Scorpio when it was first introduced at E3 2016. Since then they have probably made some improvement, but I wouldn't expect anything major. Just a 4K, proper VR capable killing machine
@Shewgenja: what the **** are white papers and what does this mean?
Is this speculation, facts, I mean more and more details or "leaks" should come out because production of this thing should be started or coming very soon if it's shooting for a November release date.
Definition below. It means that this is what MS defines the scorpio to be. It's likely the result of their R&D and final design decisions. So this info is as close to a confirmation of specs than what we had at the reveal. Based on that info, DF attempts to rule out certain technologies that wouldn't make sense in a scenario explained by the white papers and speculates on what could be the actual specs.
Historically, white papers were legislative documents that explained policies, actions and methodologies, and were often published to invite public comment. Today, white papers are divided into the following categories:
Policy: Supports a political solution to societal challenges
Technical: Describes the theory behind a specific new technology
Business/Marketing: Explains benefits of a methodology, product or technology
Hybrid: Combines business/marketing and technical white papers and may be used as sales tool
White papers streamline decisions and troubleshooting by explaining a particular topic, niche or industry, as follows: Development results and benchmark testing New technology Social or philosophical positions Organized or collaborative research recommendations
but if they unlocked more CUs and kept the same parts, that alone can increase power/capability/Tflops
Also, this article really annoys me. I love reading techy (wife calls them nerdy, but whatever) things but outdated sources really annoys me, especially when it comes to technology.
DF is usually good about that but they screwed up here. I wasted my time reading that.
A few tweaks to the GPU could make a huge difference in ANY console, not so much on PC.
On top of that, they arent sure about the CPU but they threw out speculation anyway.
Thats a no-no from a tech site unless you make it clear. They didnt until the very last paragraph.
People have to stop with this "HIDDEN POWER" shit or "TRUE POWER" in all of its forms. Stop making shit up for the sake of making shit up.
"But to clear, this is speculation based on what we now know about new Radeon features open to Microsoft. The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen, but from the whitepaper details to the Vega enhancements available to Microsoft, we should be a seeing a highly capable 4K contender."
WTF?
Why even write the article based on a white paper release after the initial reveal?
It's not like the console is going to change much between the reveal and release.
What?
"seriously" meaning new parts? Of course
but if they unlocked more CUs and kept the same parts, that alone can increase power/capability/Tflops
Also, this article really annoys me. I love reading techy (wife calls them nerdy, but whatever) things but outdated sources really annoys me, especially when it comes to technology.
DF is usually good about that but they screwed up here. I wasted my time reading that.
A few tweaks to the GPU could make a huge difference in ANY console, not so much on PC.
On top of that, they arent sure about the CPU but they threw out speculation anyway.
Thats a no-no from a tech site unless you make it clear. They didnt until the very last paragraph.
IM not telling you ANYTHING.
I dont care one way or the other. Unless it is a significant upgrade i wont be buying one.
I have a PC for high end gaming.
I was just responding to his post, which is also stated in the article.
@navyguy21: You still on the Ps4 Pro has 2 gpu's train?
What?
No, i was never on that train.
Pro doesnt have 2 GPUs in the traditional sense anyway.
It does have 2 PS4 GPUs mirrored........within a SoC.
So no, it doesnt have 2 discrete GPUs but coding for a mirrored GPU would be similar.
Okay.
@howmakewood said:
@navyguy21 said:
I think the Pro couldve been so much more had they gone with a different design.
As Cerny said, its just a PS4 GPU mirrored, so essentially 2 PS4 GPUs running in SLI.
SLI has always been variable depending on the game and scaling has to be done right or you get worse performance.
You dont get double the performance just because you have 2 GPUs, it has to be scaled correctly.
Except it has nothing to do with SLI when it comes to ps4 Pro, it simply has double the amount of CU's, there's no negative effects of what sli/crossfire brings, big difference.
I suggest 2 things.
Read up on the PS4 Pro's design as stated by Mark Cerny.............its DESIGNER, and unless you have a degree in Information Technology and software development as I do.........dont lecture me about hardware design.
but if they unlocked more CUs and kept the same parts, that alone can increase power/capability/Tflops
Also, this article really annoys me. I love reading techy (wife calls them nerdy, but whatever) things but outdated sources really annoys me, especially when it comes to technology.
DF is usually good about that but they screwed up here. I wasted my time reading that.
A few tweaks to the GPU could make a huge difference in ANY console, not so much on PC.
On top of that, they arent sure about the CPU but they threw out speculation anyway.
Thats a no-no from a tech site unless you make it clear. They didnt until the very last paragraph.
People have to stop with this "HIDDEN POWER" shit or "TRUE POWER" in all of its forms. Stop making shit up for the sake of making shit up.
This reminds me of the XBox secret sauce stuff from the start of the gen. And of course it goes both ways for Sony and the PS4.
@navyguy21: You still on the Ps4 Pro has 2 gpu's train?
What?
No, i was never on that train.
Pro doesnt have 2 GPUs in the traditional sense anyway.
It does have 2 PS4 GPUs mirrored........within a SoC.
So no, it doesnt have 2 discrete GPUs but coding for a mirrored GPU would be similar.
Okay.
@howmakewood said:
@navyguy21 said:
I think the Pro couldve been so much more had they gone with a different design.
As Cerny said, its just a PS4 GPU mirrored, so essentially 2 PS4 GPUs running in SLI.
SLI has always been variable depending on the game and scaling has to be done right or you get worse performance.
You dont get double the performance just because you have 2 GPUs, it has to be scaled correctly.
Except it has nothing to do with SLI when it comes to ps4 Pro, it simply has double the amount of CU's, there's no negative effects of what sli/crossfire brings, big difference.
I suggest 2 things.
Read up on the PS4 Pro's design as stated by Mark Cerny.............its DESIGNER, and unless you have a degree in Information Technology and software development as I do.........dont lecture me about hardware design.
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