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Reagan or Bush Jr. Both had abhorrent foreign policies and both did nothing but cut taxes for the rich. HoolaHoopMan
Reagan actually raised taxes, though I know you wouldn't know it from listening to his modern-day cult. Reagan, in fact, would probably disown most self-proclaimed Reaganites, and I think the actual Reagan was bad enough, you can imagine how much worse his pseudo-followers are.
Anyone silly enough to SERIOUSLY say Obama should keep in mind that these things happened in the last fifty years: Vietnam Global Stock Market Crash Nearly a dozen economic recessions Watergate Race riots CambodiaNinja-Hippo
You forgot Obamacare, worse than all of those combined.
obama, for letting hackers hack PSN!!!!!!! (this is blaming presidents for stuff that****** u off rite?)
Reagan or Bush Jr. Both had abhorrent foreign policies and both did nothing but cut taxes for the rich. HoolaHoopManYou can debate their economic philosophies, but I think Reagan and Bush the Elder were excellent in foreign affairs, considering how much happened between 1981 and 1993.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Anyone silly enough to SERIOUSLY say Obama should keep in mind that these things happened in the last fifty years: Vietnam Global Stock Market Crash Nearly a dozen economic recessions Watergate Race riots Cambodiatheone86
You forgot Obamacare, worse than all of those combined.
By all means please elaborate.
[QUOTE="theone86"]
Some are cutting jobs, but some simply aren't replenishing jobs lost during the recession. There's no guarantee that lower tax rates or leaving loopholes open is going to lead to a better economy, profits have picked up steadily for months now and unemployment has just recently dropped to slightly below 8%. Meanwhile, companies that play by the rules and center their business in America are paying the top rate, and companies like Google, because of the money they spend on lawyers, are paying less than 20%. Our current tax code is a perverse one that discourages business to create jobs and encourages them to find ways of shirking taxes altogether.
airshocker
Who are you talking to? I'm the one in favor of closing loopholes and bringing us to a rate of where most companies are paying: 20 - 25%. Even if that means increasing tax rates for companies that AREN'T paying.
I thought you were against closing the loopholes because of your previous statement. I'm fine with dropping the corporate tax rate along with closing the loopholes, but that has to mean that companies that are paying 25% right now because of loopholes should still be paying 25% after the top rate drops and the loopholes are eliminated.
[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Reagan or Bush Jr. Both had abhorrent foreign policies and both did nothing but cut taxes for the rich. fidosimYou can debate their economic philosophies, but I think Reagan and Bush the Elder were excellent in foreign affairs, considering how much happened between 1981 and 1993.
Yes, Iran-Contra was a shining model of foreign affairs prowess.
[QUOTE="theone86"]
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Anyone silly enough to SERIOUSLY say Obama should keep in mind that these things happened in the last fifty years: Vietnam Global Stock Market Crash Nearly a dozen economic recessions Watergate Race riots CambodiaBlue-Sky
You forgot Obamacare, worse than all of those combined.
By all means please elaborate.
I was being sarcastic.
You can debate their economic philosophies, but I think Reagan and Bush the Elder were excellent in foreign affairs, considering how much happened between 1981 and 1993.[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Reagan or Bush Jr. Both had abhorrent foreign policies and both did nothing but cut taxes for the rich. theone86
Yes, Iran-Contra was a shining model of foreign affairs prowess.
Well...yes, it actually was, when you consider the logic of the matter. The administration wanted to fight the Sandanistas, and they didn't let congress obstruct them from doing so. Unethical and probably illegal, yes, but a pretty good strategic move.[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]
[QUOTE="theone86"]
You forgot Obamacare, worse than all of those combined.
theone86
By all means please elaborate.
I was being sarcastic.
Imho the proposition of reform of medical treatment in the USA is the best policy put forward this millenium. (All be it were only 11 years into it)
You can debate their economic philosophies, but I think Reagan and Bush the Elder were excellent in foreign affairs, considering how much happened between 1981 and 1993.[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Reagan or Bush Jr. Both had abhorrent foreign policies and both did nothing but cut taxes for the rich. theone86
Yes, Iran-Contra was a shining model of foreign affairs prowess.
Don't forget about Operation Just Cause, H.W. encouraging Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam, while not giving them any aid whatsoever when they actually did take our advice to overthrow him, and the sanctions imposed on Iraq after the war that devastated the Iraqi people and did nothing to get rid of Saddam.Don't forget about Operation Just Cause, and H.W. encouraging Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam, while not giving them any aid whatsoever when they actually did take our advice to overthrow him.-Sun_Tzu-When we intervened in Panama and removed a thorn in our side from power after American soldiers were killed? And your Iraq criticism, is, like theone's criticism of Iran-Contra, a criticism of "ethics" and "fairness" and not of sobriety. There was no reason for Bush the Elder not to encourage the overthrow of Saddam, and there was no reason for him to go beyond the aims of Desert Storm by trying to remove him from power himself. That wasn't the mission.
[QUOTE="theone86"]
[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]
By all means please elaborate.
MattDistillery
I was being sarcastic.
Imho the proposition of reform of medical treatment in the USA is the best policy put forward this millennium. (All be it were only 11 years into it)
It's not perfect. In fact, it has numerous flaws but it's an initiator, a foot in the door, the ground work laid towards something the U.S. needed for a long time - medical reform. Our Government has many years ahead of them to revise and tweak to get it right but the important thing is that something is in place so congress/senate can make changes in a previously "untouchable" department without having to propose sweeping legislation.
I know now that theone86 was being sarcastic, but there are many who still oppose the bill for ambiguous reasons they themselves can't explain.
Bush is hard to beat for Iraq and such. What about Clinton? Couldn't keep his pants on but also for introducing Rendition, where you can be held on the account of terrorism without a lawyer and such. biggest_loserClinton got some action AND balanced the budget. Now that's what i call a great president.
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Don't forget about Operation Just Cause, and H.W. encouraging Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam, while not giving them any aid whatsoever when they actually did take our advice to overthrow him.fidosimWhen we intervened in Panama and removed a thorn in our side from power after American soldiers were killed? And your Iraq criticism, is, like theone's criticism of Iran-Contra, a criticism of "ethics" and "fairness" and not of sobriety. There was no reason for Bush the Elder not to encourage the overthrow of Saddam, and there was no reason for him to go beyond the aims of Desert Storm by trying to remove him from power himself. That wasn't the mission.
Oh yes, those pesky "ehtics," like when Congress tells the President they're not going to grant him power to intervene in a Middle-eastern hotbed and the President then funnels weapons to that hotbed through illegal means. Those pesky ethics, what use are they?
Clinton got some action AND balanced the budget. Now that's what i call a great president.[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]Bush is hard to beat for Iraq and such. What about Clinton? Couldn't keep his pants on but also for introducing Rendition, where you can be held on the account of terrorism without a lawyer and such. DroidPhysX
Yes, I find it quite ironic that all of these "fiscal conservatives" are criticizing the only President out of the last four who ran a surplus, makes you stop and think for a second. Bush, deficit, good leader. Bush, deficit, over-criticized. Reagen, deficit, best president since Washington. Clinton, surplus, well he's in the running for worst ever. Again, my sixth sense for detecting underlying patterns is telling me that something's amiss.
Bush is hard to beat for Iraq and such. What about Clinton? Couldn't keep his pants on but also for introducing Rendition, where you can be held on the account of terrorism without a lawyer and such. biggest_loser
To focus on Clinton's adultry, We [Americans] expect the U.S. President to be the most upstanding and morally responsible individual to represent us. But in reality, that person doesn't exist, so the Politician has to lie and pretend to be the model to fool us. Clinton's laspe in judgement didn't affect us domestically in any way what so ever, but we made it affect us.
So in short, Clinton's blowjob was our fault.
When we intervened in Panama and removed a thorn in our side from power after American soldiers were killed? And your Iraq criticism, is, like theone's criticism of Iran-Contra, a criticism of "ethics" and "fairness" and not of sobriety. There was no reason for Bush the Elder not to encourage the overthrow of Saddam, and there was no reason for him to go beyond the aims of Desert Storm by trying to remove him from power himself. That wasn't the mission.[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Don't forget about Operation Just Cause, and H.W. encouraging Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam, while not giving them any aid whatsoever when they actually did take our advice to overthrow him.theone86
Oh yes, those pesky "ehtics," like when Congress tells the President they're not going to grant him power to intervene in a Middle-eastern hotbed and the President then funnels weapons to that hotbed through illegal means. Those pesky ethics, what use are they?
In international strategy, none. You can score as many ethical points against a president as you'd like, but to say that the Reagan/Bush foreign policies failed because of incidents like Iran-Contra is simply untrue.[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]Bush is hard to beat for Iraq and such. What about Clinton? Couldn't keep his pants on but also for introducing Rendition, where you can be held on the account of terrorism without a lawyer and such. Blue-Sky
To focus on Clinton's adultry, We (Americans) expect the U.S. President to be the most upstanding and morally responsible individual to represent us. But in reality, that person doesn't exist, so the Politician has to lie and pretend to be the model to fool us. Clinton's laspe in judgement didn't affect us domestically in any way what so ever, but we made it affect us.
So in short, Clinton's blowjob was our fault.
Besides, what he did was mild compared to today's standards. Eight years and he didn't throw a single bunga-bunga party.
[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]Bush is hard to beat for Iraq and such. What about Clinton? Couldn't keep his pants on but also for introducing Rendition, where you can be held on the account of terrorism without a lawyer and such. Blue-Sky
To focus on Clinton's adultry, We [Americans] expect the U.S. President to be the most upstanding and morally responsible individual to represent us. But in reality, that person doesn't exist, so the Politician has to lie and pretend to be the model to fool us. Clinton's laspe in judgement didn't affect us domestically in any way what so ever, but we made it affect us.
So in short, Clinton's blowjob was our fault.
Clinton's mistake in that whole affair, besides actually receiving the BJ, was not simply fessing up right away and allowing the story to get sensationalized to the degree that it did.[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Don't forget about Operation Just Cause, and H.W. encouraging Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam, while not giving them any aid whatsoever when they actually did take our advice to overthrow him.fidosimWhen we intervened in Panama and removed a thorn in our side from power after American soldiers were killed? And your Iraq criticism, is, like theone's criticism of Iran-Contra, a criticism of "ethics" and "fairness" and not of sobriety. There was no reason for Bush the Elder not to encourage the overthrow of Saddam, and there was no reason for him to go beyond the aims of Desert Storm by trying to remove him from power himself. That wasn't the mission. At the end of the Gulf War H.W. strongly encouraged the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam. Not only that, but the CIA flooded Iraqi radio waves with propaganda about the dire need to overthrow Saddam. The U.S. led many, many Iraqis to believe that they would not be fighting against Saddam and his military alone. Right after the ceasefire, there were uprisings throughout Iraq against Saddam. But the rebels were caught with their pants down - they never got any international support, including from the U.S. who weeks earlier were pleading for these uprisings to occur, and Saddam, like any good genocidal dictator does, indiscriminately unleashed his wrath upon his constituents. Had the U.S. aided the rebels (who were at the beginning of the uprisings very successful), Saddam probably would've been overthrown in 1991, meaning that a decades worth of sanctions that resulted in a huge number of deaths (including about a half million children under the age of five) and a whole other war in 2003 to finally get rid of Saddam would've been avoided. The way H.W. handled Iraq after the Gulf War was simply dreadful.
[QUOTE="theone86"][QUOTE="fidosim"] When we intervened in Panama and removed a thorn in our side from power after American soldiers were killed? And your Iraq criticism, is, like theone's criticism of Iran-Contra, a criticism of "ethics" and "fairness" and not of sobriety. There was no reason for Bush the Elder not to encourage the overthrow of Saddam, and there was no reason for him to go beyond the aims of Desert Storm by trying to remove him from power himself. That wasn't the mission.fidosim
Oh yes, those pesky "ehtics," like when Congress tells the President they're not going to grant him power to intervene in a Middle-eastern hotbed and the President then funnels weapons to that hotbed through illegal means. Those pesky ethics, what use are they?
In international strategy, none. You can score as many ethical points against a president as you'd like, but to say that the Reagan/Bush foreign policies failed because of incidents like Iran-Contra is simply untrue.They funneled weapons to a group of militants that were guilty of human rights violations, how exactly is that a foreign policy success?
At the end of the Gulf War H.W. strongly encouraged the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam. Not only that, but the CIA flooded Iraqi radio waves with propaganda about the dire need to overthrow Saddam. The U.S. led many, many Iraqis to believe that they would not be fighting against Saddam and his military alone. Right after the ceasefire, there were uprisings throughout Iraq against Saddam. But the rebels were caught with their pants down - they never got any international support, including from the U.S. who weeks earlier were pleading for these uprisings to occur, and Saddam, like any good genocidal dictator does, indiscriminately unleashed his wrath upon his constituents. Had the U.S. aided the rebels (who were at the beginning of the uprisings very successful), Saddam probably would've been overthrown in 1991, meaning that a decades worth of sanctions that resulted in a huge number of deaths (including about a half million children under the age of five) and a whole other war in 2003 to finally get rid of Saddam would've been avoided. The way H.W. handled Iraq after the Gulf War was simply dreadful.-Sun_Tzu-
Again post-Gulf War Iraq is a tragic story, but Daddy Bush's actions make strategic sense. We can hypothesize about what might have been in we had given more support to the rebels, but it's hard to find much fault with HW given what his actual goals were in Desert Storm. More aid could have overthrown Saddam, sure, but it also could also could have dragged us into a full-on regime change operation in Iraq like what we started in 2003, but at an economically difficult time in the US and an extremely fragile state of affairs internationally.
We can postulate the same way about the Bay of Pigs. If we had given air support in that case, we could have overthrown Castro, or we could have gotten into a shooting war with Cuba and become mired in a disastrous conflict during the height of the Cold War. I can't find fault with Bush or Kennedy for erring on the side of caution in these events.
and you have no idea whats going on in the world right now do you?im going with obama, Obama , all he does is take vacations while our troops and police are out workin there buts off for him while he making gas prices higher , not helping the average person ,
hes just killing the markets and everything he touches ,
the world wil lbe broke thanks to him
mariokart64fan
I thought you were against closing the loopholes because of your previous statement. I'm fine with dropping the corporate tax rate along with closing the loopholes, but that has to mean that companies that are paying 25% right now because of loopholes should still be paying 25% after the top rate drops and the loopholes are eliminated.
theone86
I'm against closing loop holes and leaving the tax rate at 35%. Not against closing them and dropping the tax rate to a reasonable 20 - 25%.
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] At the end of the Gulf War H.W. strongly encouraged the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam. Not only that, but the CIA flooded Iraqi radio waves with propaganda about the dire need to overthrow Saddam. The U.S. led many, many Iraqis to believe that they would not be fighting against Saddam and his military alone. Right after the ceasefire, there were uprisings throughout Iraq against Saddam. But the rebels were caught with their pants down - they never got any international support, including from the U.S. who weeks earlier were pleading for these uprisings to occur, and Saddam, like any good genocidal dictator does, indiscriminately unleashed his wrath upon his constituents. Had the U.S. aided the rebels (who were at the beginning of the uprisings very successful), Saddam probably would've been overthrown in 1991, meaning that a decades worth of sanctions that resulted in a huge number of deaths (including about a half million children under the age of five) and a whole other war in 2003 to finally get rid of Saddam would've been avoided. The way H.W. handled Iraq after the Gulf War was simply dreadful.fidosim
Again post-Gulf War Iraq is a tragic story, but Daddy Bush's actions make strategic sense. We can hypothesize about what might have been in we had given more support to the rebels, but it's hard to find much fault with HW given what his actual goals were in Desert Storm. More aid could have overthrown Saddam, sure, but it also could also could have dragged us into a full-on regime change operation in Iraq like what we started in 2003, but at an economically difficult time in the US and an extremely fragile state of affairs internationally.
We can postulate the same way about the Bay of Pigs. If we had given air support in that case, we could have overthrown Castro, or we could have gotten into a shooting war with Cuba and become mired in a disastrous conflict during the height of the Cold War. I can't find fault with Bush or Kennedy for erring on the side of caution in these events.
How is it hard to find fault with HW? The U.S, HW specifically, was pleading for the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam and gave the Iraqi people the impression that they would not be fighting against Saddam alone. After they did rise up (and took control of much of the country), but then Saddam indiscriminately massacred his own people in response, and the rest of the world, including HW, sat and did nothing in response (to add insult to injury, the U.S. imposes sanctions on Iraq that did nothing to weaken Saddam but did a lot to inadvertently lead to the deaths of about a half million Iraqis who were under the age of five). Yes you are right that HW didn't have any intention to remove Saddam - that wasn't one of his goals. But the world doesn't revolve around the intentions of HW - just because the removal of Saddam wasn't on his to-do list doesn't mean that he isn't at fault for sitting back and doing nothing while Iraqis are being slaughtered for an uprising that he helped incite.I would have to say George W. Bush.
Nixon gets too much hate because of watergate. While we're on the topic of presidents, the best one in the last 50 years is Lyndon Johnson (or Clinton). Way too much hate for Vietnam. His Great Society plays a major role into American life today.
DroidPhysX
i couldn't agree more.
[QUOTE="pero2008"]
Right now it's Carter but once Obamas term or terms end he will be the worst president.
MattDistillery
What Obama is doing is worse than Vietnam, Iraq, Watergate, Global stock market crash and global housing market collapse, Afghanistan, Korean War Etc?
I think it's hard to rate a Presidency untill a good bit after the term is over but as a European looking in Obama has came in at a very tougth time and is doing the best job he can in horrible circumstances.
Also I'l give credit for Nixon were it's due. He opened trade to China which helped facilitate the collapse of the USSR and set up the Enviromental protection agency.
It's quite a fallacy to give any material blame to any one person for the said items in bold. No one seems to throw the blame game about the recupercussions of the dot com bubble bursting, which were also pretty bad.
[QUOTE="MattDistillery"]
[QUOTE="pero2008"]
Right now it's Carter but once Obamas term or terms end he will be the worst president.
jetpower3
What Obama is doing is worse than Vietnam, Iraq, Watergate, Global stock market crash and global housing market collapse, Afghanistan, Korean War Etc?
I think it's hard to rate a Presidency untill a good bit after the term is over but as a European looking in Obama has came in at a very tougth time and is doing the best job he can in horrible circumstances.
Also I'l give credit for Nixon were it's due. He opened trade to China which helped facilitate the collapse of the USSR and set up the Enviromental protection agency.
It's quite a fallacy to give any material blame to any one person for the said items in bold. No one seems to throw the blame game about the recupercussions of the dot com bubble bursting, which were also pretty bad.
No, but how a president reacts to these economic events can be criticized.Either way, I'm betting answers will be skewed towards more recent presidents, as there is that much more information about them and their actions in cirriculation, both good and bad (but mostly bad in this case). Many people here would only know of a lot of the previous presidents through history class and the fewer and less accessible amounts of information on their presidencies as a whole.
[QUOTE="jetpower3"]
[QUOTE="MattDistillery"]
What Obama is doing is worse than Vietnam, Iraq, Watergate, Global stock market crash and global housing market collapse, Afghanistan, Korean War Etc?
I think it's hard to rate a Presidency untill a good bit after the term is over but as a European looking in Obama has came in at a very tougth time and is doing the best job he can in horrible circumstances.Also I'l give credit for Nixon were it's due. He opened trade to China which helped facilitate the collapse of the USSR and set up the Enviromental protection agency.
BMD004
It's quite a fallacy to give any material blame to any one person for the said items in bold. No one seems to throw the blame game about the recupercussions of the dot com bubble bursting, which were also pretty bad.
No, but how a president reacts to these economic events can be criticized.Hard to compare since not all economic busts are created equal and given the fact that market volatility in general seems to be accelerating. Don't forget the U.S. government still has a lawmaking branch.
Hmm, it's between Bush and Carter. However, while some Carter failings were due to forces outside of his own control, Bush's failings were his own doing. Carter at least tried to find solutions to the problems he faced, like investing in alternative energy sources in responce to the oil crisis, whereas Bush only escalated his own problems (Ex: Iraq).
I'd have to go with Carter. Of all the teachers/parents that are old enough to remember most of the presidents of the past 50 years, they usually say Carter was easily the worst. He was apparently soft, and didn't get much done. These threads are pretty much pointless though. No one takes anytime to actually look at the presidents of the last 50 years, and just says the one that is currently in office.
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