Is Piracy Stealing?

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Teenaged

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#301 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

The title thread is literally asking: "Wanna play semantics? :D"

McJugga

Well, I wouldn't say it is literally asking that.

Oh well I wrote "literally" for the sake of some intentional exaggeration.

I guess I should have put it in quotes.

Or type "pretty much" instead of "literally".

You know what? I am not American/English! :x :P

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htekemerald

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#302 htekemerald
Member since 2004 • 7325 Posts

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]How is that a good debate? Copyrights are protected by law. Car companies have no legal rights to modes of transportation. They only own the vehicles until they sell them to a dealer.

JonnyEagle

You and the anti piracy people are saying that piracy is theft because it takes profit away from them (assuing anyone who pirates would buy the material)

I'm saying walking is theft by that logics because it takes profit away from the car companies (assuming everyone who walks would have bought a car if they couldn't walk)

And if tomorrow some government came out with a law that said it is illegal to walk, you must drive a car I am pretty sure you would say "thats a stupid law" not "walking is theft"

You see, I don't get that comparison, you can't really compare walking to driving a car because not only is walking unlike driving a car, it's a lot less efficient, where as illegally downloading music, games, or movies, you get a product that you're supposed to pay for, but for free....

Lets see;

walking and driving, both get you to the same place in the end despite being different

downloading music and buying a cd: both get you the same thing in the end despite both being very different (in actual reality pirating music usually gets you the superior product)

Both walking and downloading get you what *could* cost you money but for free.

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deactivated-5cacc9e03b460

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#303 deactivated-5cacc9e03b460
Member since 2005 • 6976 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

:lol: .

Not laughing at you, but with you as you brought up a good debate.

htekemerald

How is that a good debate? Copyrights are protected by law. Car companies have no legal rights to modes of transportation. They only own the vehicles until they sell them to a dealer.

You and the anti piracy people are saying that piracy is theft because it takes profit away from them (assuing anyone who pirates would buy the material)

I'm saying walking is theft by that logics because it takes profit away from the car companies (assuming everyone who walks would have bought a car if they couldn't walk)

And if tomorrow some government came out with a law that said it is illegal to walk, you must drive a car I am pretty sure you would say "thats a stupid law" not "walking is theft"

It DOES take away from the company, obviously if your pirating it, your interested in it, and if there was no piracy you probably would have purchased it, and if there was no piracy people would either purchase it or go without. The walking theory is dumb. Walking is like Linux its free to use for everyone.

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LJS9502_basic

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#304 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

[Lets see;

walking and driving, both get you to the same place in the end despite being different

downloading music and buying a cd: both get you the same thing in the end despite both being very different (in actual reality pirating music usually gets you the superior product)

Both walking and downloading get you what *could* cost you money but for free.

htekemerald

No just no. The automobile manufacturers do not own the ground people walk on. They do not own the patent on walking....it's a natural human ability.

Downloading music illegally means one is taking the music without paying the legal compensation. Buy a CD is paying the legal compensation.

Your argument does NOT show that walking is an event that must be paid for and as such the logical constraint fails.

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horgen

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#305 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127530 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"]You steal value from a company, so yes it is stealing.markop2003
You reduce the value of the company if you write a bad review of one of its products too, is that stealing as well then?

You're free to voice your opinion about a product.
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htekemerald

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#306 htekemerald
Member since 2004 • 7325 Posts

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[Lets see;

walking and driving, both get you to the same place in the end despite being different

downloading music and buying a cd: both get you the same thing in the end despite both being very different (in actual reality pirating music usually gets you the superior product)

Both walking and downloading get you what *could* cost you money but for free.

LJS9502_basic

No just no. The automobile manufacturers do not own the ground people walk on. They do not own the patent on walking....it's a natural human ability.

Downloading music illegally means one is taking the music without paying the legal compensation. Buy a CD is paying the legal compensation.

Your argument does NOT show that walking is an event that must be paid for and as such the logical constraint fails.

One is copying music. Please try and get the basic issue here right, its not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Your arguing that copying music is wrong because it takes away profit from music companies. (assuming that everyone who pirates would buy the music which is faulty logic, and ignoring that fact that people who pirate purchase more music on average)

I'm point out that by that logic your cheating car companies out of sales by walking, taking away their profit. (which is wrong by your 'logic' seeing as everyone deserves to be payed for any work they do, regardless of what it is, according to you)

Sorry but I don't see the difference... Walking is a normal human abaility, sining is a normal human ability. People don't own the patent on walking anymore than they own the words to a song.

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deactivated-5cacc9e03b460

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#307 deactivated-5cacc9e03b460
Member since 2005 • 6976 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[Lets see;

walking and driving, both get you to the same place in the end despite being different

downloading music and buying a cd: both get you the same thing in the end despite both being very different (in actual reality pirating music usually gets you the superior product)

Both walking and downloading get you what *could* cost you money but for free.

htekemerald

No just no. The automobile manufacturers do not own the ground people walk on. They do not own the patent on walking....it's a natural human ability.

Downloading music illegally means one is taking the music without paying the legal compensation. Buy a CD is paying the legal compensation.

Your argument does NOT show that walking is an event that must be paid for and as such the logical constraint fails.

One is copying music. Please try and get the basic issue here right, its not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Your arguing that copying music is wrong because it takes away profit from music companies. (assuming that everyone who pirates would buy the music which is faulty logic, and ignoring that fact that people who pirate purchase more music on average)

I'm point out that by that logic your cheating car companies out of sales by walking, taking away their profit. (which is wrong by your 'logic' seeing as everyone deserves to be payed for any work they do, regardless of what it is, according to you)

Sorry but I don't see the difference... Walking is a normal human abaility, sining is a normal human ability. People don't own the patent on walking anymore than they own the words to a song.

Yeah but your not using the car companys property to aid you in your walking, in fact the car companys have nothing to do with you walking. Pirating, you ARE using the companys property.

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lordreaven

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#308 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts

I seem to recall back in 2000-2002ish that pirating wasn't a big deal and it was okay blah blah and everyone and their grandma did and companys made bucket loads of money anyway. Its now 2010 and companies are crying that pirating is killing them yet they still turn BIG profits, why is that?

The point i'm making is that the companies tried to kill pirating wwith laws so they can make a bigger profit and basicly failed.I bet most of the money they claim they"lost" went to lobbying to make ridiculis copywrite laws.

Example: It is legal for an oil company to buy a say a fuel efficent car design and store it away so no one can use it. but if someone makes a design similar then out come the multi-million doller lawsuits. That is the copywrite law i'm talking about.

So ineffect it was a way for a company to sue someone back to the stoneage and make even more money. Thats how i see it.

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JonnyEagle

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#309 JonnyEagle
Member since 2009 • 1196 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[Lets see;

walking and driving, both get you to the same place in the end despite being different

downloading music and buying a cd: both get you the same thing in the end despite both being very different (in actual reality pirating music usually gets you the superior product)

Both walking and downloading get you what *could* cost you money but for free.

htekemerald

No just no. The automobile manufacturers do not own the ground people walk on. They do not own the patent on walking....it's a natural human ability.

Downloading music illegally means one is taking the music without paying the legal compensation. Buy a CD is paying the legal compensation.

Your argument does NOT show that walking is an event that must be paid for and as such the logical constraint fails.

One is copying music. Please try and get the basic issue here right, its not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Your arguing that copying music is wrong because it takes away profit from music companies. (assuming that everyone who pirates would buy the music which is faulty logic, and ignoring that fact that people who pirate purchase more music on average)

I'm point out that by that logic your cheating car companies out of sales by walking, taking away their profit. (which is wrong by your 'logic' seeing as everyone deserves to be payed for any work they do, regardless of what it is, according to you)

Sorry but I don't see the difference... Walking is a normal human abaility, sining is a normal human ability. People don't own the patent on walking anymore than they own the words to a song.

Looks like you're not understanding, walking has absolutely nothing to do with the car companies, because you're not using their product, where as illegally downloading something, you are using a product that you're supposed to pay for....
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blackngold29

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#310 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
This thread is incredible. Can I pose a new question: Does anyone think that stealing or piracy is legal?
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lordreaven

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#311 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts
This thread is incredible. Can I pose a new question: Does anyone think that stealing or piracy is legal?blackngold29
Well gamespot will ban whoever say yes so its kind of one sided.
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htekemerald

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#312 htekemerald
Member since 2004 • 7325 Posts

This thread is incredible. Can I pose a new question: Does anyone think that stealing or piracy is legal?blackngold29
Music Piracy is legal where I live.

theft is illegal.

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Bloodseeker23

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#313 Bloodseeker23
Member since 2008 • 8338 Posts
Pirates?! Arrrr!
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#314 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
This thread is incredible. Can I pose a new question: Does anyone think that stealing or piracy is legal?blackngold29
Probably not, but then again it's the word "piracy" which seems to convince a lot of people that this particular form of copyright infringement is so dastardly wrong. I mean, how many people who are currently banging on about criminality and immorality have ever listened to or linked to an obviously ripped song on Youtube? Why is that supposed to be any better? Come to think of it... how many of those fine upstanding folks are currently using a copyrighted image in their avatar or sig?
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lordreaven

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#315 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts
Pirates?! Arrrr!Bloodseeker23
Arr matey!!! Are we going to get that their booty!? *throws on eyepatch and buys parate* ARR!!!!
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LJS9502_basic

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#316 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

One is copying music. Please try and get the basic issue here right, its not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Your arguing that copying music is wrong because it takes away profit from music companies. (assuming that everyone who pirates would buy the music which is faulty logic, and ignoring that fact that people who pirate purchase more music on average)

I'm point out that by that logic your cheating car companies out of sales by walking, taking away their profit. (which is wrong by your 'logic' seeing as everyone deserves to be payed for any work they do, regardless of what it is, according to you)

Sorry but I don't see the difference... Walking is a normal human abaility, sining is a normal human ability. People don't own the patent on walking anymore than they own the words to a song.

htekemerald

No it's not that difficult to grasp. But the walking and car manufacturers is NOT remotely the same thing. The music is an intellictual property. Which means it's not physical...but still has rights that belong to the copyright holder. NO ONE holds the rights to walking. The analogy is not logical.

Well actually I had not presented that argument in this thread. So much for assumption. However, while not everyone that pirates Band A's music would purchase...there is STILL a percentage that would purchase the music and thus there is a loss of profit. Not only profit....but the recouping of the costs to create the music which occurs BEFORE any profit is realized.

Again...the car analogy is incorrect. You are not cheating car companies by walking. You would be cheating them by stealing the vehicles.

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htekemerald

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#317 htekemerald
Member since 2004 • 7325 Posts

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

One is copying music. Please try and get the basic issue here right, its not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Your arguing that copying music is wrong because it takes away profit from music companies. (assuming that everyone who pirates would buy the music which is faulty logic, and ignoring that fact that people who pirate purchase more music on average)

I'm point out that by that logic your cheating car companies out of sales by walking, taking away their profit. (which is wrong by your 'logic' seeing as everyone deserves to be payed for any work they do, regardless of what it is, according to you)

Sorry but I don't see the difference... Walking is a normal human abaility, sining is a normal human ability. People don't own the patent on walking anymore than they own the words to a song.

LJS9502_basic

No it's not that difficult to grasp. But the walking and car manufacturers is NOT remotely the same thing. The music is an intellictual property. Which means it's not physical...but still has rights that belong to the copyright holder. NO ONE holds the rights to walking. The analogy is not logical.

Well actually I had not presented that argument in this thread. So much for assumption. However, while not everyone that pirates Band A's music would purchase...there is STILL a percentage that would purchase the music and thus there is a loss of profit. Not only profit....but the recouping of the costs to create the music which occurs BEFORE any profit is realized.

Again...the car analogy is incorrect. You are not cheating car companies by walking. You would be cheating them by stealing the vehicles.

I can go pull up the half dozen time you said that in the last thread...

So you can only cheat the car companies by stealing something physical, but its ok to take away their profit by copying their service...

and lets ignore that any loss from piracy is usually cancled out by a large number of the people who pirated the product buying the product.

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LJS9502_basic

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#318 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

I can go pull up the half dozen time you said that in the last thread...

So you can only cheat the car companies by stealing something physical, but its ok to take away their profit by copying their service...

and lets ignore that any loss from piracy is usually cancled out by a large number of the people who pirated the product buying the product.

htekemerald

You follow my posts that closely.:lol:

Anyway, we are talking about the current discussion. Let's stay on board. But nonetheless, as I just pointed out to you that a fan of Band A would purchase the music if there was no way to illegally obtain the music. Thus, a loss of profit/offset of costs by the illegal downloading. So it's actually accurate to say some money IS lost with piracy.

Walking is not copying the service of a car manufacturer. And making your own music instead of listening to the music of others is not taking away profit by copying...in this case...creating music on one's own.

Large number of people....yeah that doesn't happen. Some might be accurate but a large number of people DO NOT go out and then purchase a legal copy of all the pirated music.

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dercoo

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#320 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]This thread is incredible. Can I pose a new question: Does anyone think that stealing or piracy is legal?jimmyjammer69
Probably not, but then again it's the word "piracy" which seems to convince a lot of people that this particular form of copyright infringement is so dastardly wrong. I mean, how many people who are currently banging on about criminality and immorality have ever listened to or linked to an obviously ripped song on Youtube? Why is that supposed to be any better? Come to think of it... how many of those fine upstanding folks are currently using a copyrighted image in their avatar or sig?

:lol:

You bring up a good point.

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Flame_Blade88

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#321 Flame_Blade88
Member since 2005 • 39348 Posts
Technically it's copying.
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pianist

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#322 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

Lets see;

walking and driving, both get you to the same place in the end despite being different

downloading music and buying a cd: both get you the same thing in the end despite both being very different (in actual reality pirating music usually gets you the superior product)

Both walking and downloading get you what *could* cost you money but for free.

htekemerald

You do not draw on anyone else's services or work to walk. You DO draw on someone else's services or work when you download music. Therein lies the difference. If your example is to be considered an accurate comparison, it would be akin to you choosing to write your own music instead of partaking of others' music. Just like walking, this would entail the use of your own personal skills, and would remove the need for you to use anyone else's work or services to fulfill your desire for musical entertainment.

A person has the right to decide not to purchase a product (so he can choose to walk instead of buying a car to drive). He does NOT have the right to obtain and use a product for free that has been created by someone else, unless the creator (or whoever owns the rights to his work) has given permission for the work/product to be used for free.

I'll be honest - this is really one of the strangest arguments I have ever come across in one of these piracy debates, and I feel that it does not work at all to support your position.

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LJS9502_basic

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#323 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

It is the most unique I've seen.... even if it isn't accurate.

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pianist

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#324 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

It is the most unique I've seen.... even if it isn't accurate.

LJS9502_basic

Yes, that too...

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#325 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Is it stealing? Yes. Although I feel as if the concept of intellectual property is abused quite a bit.
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KittenNipples

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#326 KittenNipples
Member since 2007 • 3013 Posts
Yes. If you take something for free that your suppose to be paying for I believe they call that stealing.
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T_P_O

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#327 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

I posted earlier but I think this time I'll respond to the notion of "piracy=stealing". I'd like people to not sidetrack this to "piracy=acceptable" because the matter of the thread is whether piracy is stealing or not brahs.

The only conclusion I can come to that actually responds to the concept of stealing is that piracy=/=stealing.

Firstly, when talking about piracy, in effect, we basically refer to the offence of infringing copyright and by stealing, we mostly are going to the theft side of things, there's the obvious difference of the two crimes in the law. Infringing copyright is an entirely different offence to theft. I think by just looking at this alone, settles that piracy=/=stealing. Every case for infringing copyright could warrant damages to be paid to the claimant, but in a theft case, you're probably going to be jailed if found guilty. You can't equate the offence of copyright infringement to the criminal offence of theft, it's clear that they are not one in the same. Totally different laws. Totally different things.

Secondly, if we look at what "pirating" something actually is, it becomes even more shaky to assume that someone has "stolen" anything. Even with the original pirate, all he's doing is taking a digital copy of whatever he wants to rip. Here, he'll extract the formulae that's encoded onto the disk that gives his computer the information to effectively mimic the original (ie, MP3's, there's programmed a set of instructions for digital music players to copy the original pattern, no actual music is stored inside the file.) All that does is use the resources from his power and computer to allow the output of soundwaces to distort the air (music) and arrange pixels on the screen. There's no taking of anything at all here, sure, he benefits from it but that doesn't make it stealing. From there, he'll upload these files with the formulae into some sort of network, each being a copy of the files he has on his own PC. Again, these files can be assembled to recreate a copy of the thing in question, be it video, game, music, et cetera et cetera but I don't really see how this fits the definition of stealing something, the game, music or whatever isn't taken away from the creating party, just essentially the copy of the original is copied again and shared out.

Finally, I'd like to delve into a definition of stealing. I'll go with a really common sense one, you take something belonging to another, depriving them of that thing. That's stealing to me personally, if you want to throw another definition in, feel free to do so. We've already looked at the inner mechanics of what internet piracy actually is, so, how does this measure up against a definition of stealing? Not well I'm afraid. There's no deprevation of property from a party, sure, there's the copying of code to recreate an original structure, but there's no depriving of the thing itself happening, the original stays with the company safe and sound, all that's happening is copying of a copy which has been legally purchased on CD, presumably, otherwise it would easily by a stealing of the original tape, that is stealing. However, copying is not stealing. Quite tricky to think about, but ah well.

At the end of the day, it is illegal to infringe copyright, anyone can plainly see that it's illegal, to argue it isn't would be a seriously lost cause. This is an argument on the semantics of issue, it is not in anyway absurd to point out how "piracy is stealing" may be semantically incorrect. Also note, I'm not trying to justify piracy, so don't bandwagon on me for that reason.

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LJS9502_basic

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#328 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

*long post*

T_P_O

While piracy is not physically taking the original copy...it's copying it...it is still stealing revenue from the owner. So while the taking of the actual intellectual property is quibbled about....there is no denying that the revenue from the pirated item is stolen.

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Mad_Hatter1

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#329 Mad_Hatter1
Member since 2010 • 40 Posts

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]

*long post*

LJS9502_basic

While piracy is not physically taking the original copy...it's copying it...it is still stealing revenue from the owner. So while the taking of the actual intellectual property is quibbled about....there is no denying that the revenue from the pirated item is stolen.

Oh no! 13$ gone! How will I ever live with the rest of my millions!

Who gives a crap about piracy.

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LJS9502_basic

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#330 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]

*long post*

Mad_Hatter1

While piracy is not physically taking the original copy...it's copying it...it is still stealing revenue from the owner. So while the taking of the actual intellectual property is quibbled about....there is no denying that the revenue from the pirated item is stolen.

Oh no! 13$ gone! How will I ever live with the rest of my millions!

Who gives a crap about piracy.

And that matters because? If you don't want to contribute to someone's money......do without their creations. Considering this thread exists....I'd say some people do care. And that's not counting the people whose livelihood depends on it. And FYI...it's not just the artist. There are many people that work at game, recording, and movie companies that are not multimillionaires but working people with families to support. There is no justification for theft/piracy.
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Mad_Hatter1

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#331 Mad_Hatter1
Member since 2010 • 40 Posts

There is no justification for theft/piracy.LJS9502_basic

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal a whole ****load of packed lunches from Wal-Mart, then is it ok to stea, to feed their starving children with peg-legs?

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deactivated-5cacc9e03b460

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#332 deactivated-5cacc9e03b460
Member since 2005 • 6976 Posts

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]

*long post*

LJS9502_basic

While piracy is not physically taking the original copy...it's copying it...it is still stealing revenue from the owner. So while the taking of the actual intellectual property is quibbled about....there is no denying that the revenue from the pirated item is stolen.

Don't you feel like your repeating yourself? lol

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LJS9502_basic

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#333 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]There is no justification for theft/piracy.Mad_Hatter1

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal

If they are that poor they would have government assistance with food....so they need not steal.

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McJugga

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#334 McJugga
Member since 2007 • 9453 Posts

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

The title thread is literally asking: "Wanna play semantics? :D"

Teenaged

Well, I wouldn't say it is literally asking that.

Oh well I wrote "literally" for the sake of some intentional exaggeration.

I guess I should have put it in quotes.

Or type "pretty much" instead of "literally".

You know what? I am not American/English! :x :P

^_^ I succeeded in pissing you off. Now I can go to bed happy.
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Mad_Hatter1

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#335 Mad_Hatter1
Member since 2010 • 40 Posts

[QUOTE="Mad_Hatter1"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]There is no justification for theft/piracy.LJS9502_basic

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal

If they are that poor they would have government assistance with food....so they need not steal.

They're homeless, and the government hated them because they're not white, then is it ok?

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deactivated-5cacc9e03b460

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#336 deactivated-5cacc9e03b460
Member since 2005 • 6976 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]There is no justification for theft/piracy.Mad_Hatter1

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal a whole ****load of packed lunches from Wal-Mart, then is it ok to stea, to feed their starving children with peg-legs?

No, it still not a justification to steal.

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JonnyEagle

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#337 JonnyEagle
Member since 2009 • 1196 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Mad_Hatter1"]

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal

Mad_Hatter1

If they are that poor they would have government assistance with food....so they need not steal.

They're homeless, and the government hated them because they're not white, then is it ok?

Nah man, sorry that's still stealing.....
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Mad_Hatter1

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#338 Mad_Hatter1
Member since 2010 • 40 Posts

[QUOTE="Mad_Hatter1"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]There is no justification for theft/piracy.racer8dan

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal a whole ****load of packed lunches from Wal-Mart, then is it ok to stea, to feed their starving children with peg-legs?

No, it still not a justification to steal.

They all have cancer as well.

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LJS9502_basic

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#339 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178879 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Mad_Hatter1"]

What if some one is hungry and hasn't eaten for weks, so they steal

Mad_Hatter1

If they are that poor they would have government assistance with food....so they need not steal.

They're homeless, and the government hated them because they're not white, then is it ok?

No it's not. And homeless shelters exist and the government doesn't discriminate.
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Mad_Hatter1

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#340 Mad_Hatter1
Member since 2010 • 40 Posts

[QUOTE="Mad_Hatter1"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] If they are that poor they would have government assistance with food....so they need not steal.

JonnyEagle

They're homeless, and the government hated them because they're not white, then is it ok?

Nah man, sorry that's still stealing.....

They all have to take turn getting it by John Goodman.

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JonnyEagle

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#342 JonnyEagle
Member since 2009 • 1196 Posts

[QUOTE="JonnyEagle"][QUOTE="Mad_Hatter1"] They're homeless, and the government hated them because they're not white, then is it ok?

Mad_Hatter1

Nah man, sorry that's still stealing.....

They all have to take turn getting it by John Goodman.

John Goodman? Now you've gone too far, for the love of god, they're children on this board!
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foxhound_fox

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#343 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Piracy on the open seas? Yes. Software piracy, that is better known as copyright infringement? No. Stealing involves the loss of a possession, and copyright infringement does nothing of the sort. It is a different crime altogether.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#344 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

After thinking about it some more, I think I might be a little sympathetic to the idea that intellectual property is illegitimate. David Hume justified private property only under the condition that resources are limited, and said that you can't really justify private property when resources are unlimited. When it comes to the mere replication of an idea, resources are essentially unlimited, thus making intellectual property illegitimate.

I'm not sure if I really buy my argument at this time - just sort of throwing it out there.

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jimmyjammer69

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#345 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
Could someone from the copyright infringement=theft brigade tell me whether they think it's stealing when they go to Youtube to listen to a song they know hasn't been officially sanctioned, and if not, why not?
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jimmyjammer69

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#346 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

After thinking about it some more, I think I might be a little sympathetic to the idea that intellectual property is illegitimate. David Hume justified private property only under the condition that resources are limited, and said that you can't really justify private property when resources are unlimited. When it comes to the mere replication of an idea, resources are essentially unlimited, thus making intellectual property illegitimate.

I'm not sure if I really buy my argument at this time - just sort of throwing it out there.

-Sun_Tzu-
Bingo. This is exactly what I said in an argument a few months back (without the clever David Hume bit).
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T_P_O

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#347 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]

*long post*

LJS9502_basic

While piracy is not physically taking the original copy...it's copying it...it is still stealing revenue from the owner. So while the taking of the actual intellectual property is quibbled about....there is no denying that the revenue from the pirated item is stolen.

The vast majority of pirates download it because it is without price, if it wasn't free, they'd probably simply go without the program entirely. It wouldn't force them to buy it. You can't really say that potential revenue is "stolen", there's no guarantee the pirate was going to buy the thing anyway.
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topsemag55

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#348 topsemag55
Member since 2007 • 19063 Posts

I would say it IS stealing. I kind of look at it similar to a street merchant with his inventory all laid out on a table, each with a pricetag. The items are there for everyone to see, but there always is a pricetag. You can of course just take the item without paying for it quite easily, and not get caught, or you can be honest and pay for it. It's very similar if you think about it, don't let the digital format fool you. The originator should be getting money for every copy distributed.

Lethargika

I agree. Those who say "duplicating" vs. theft are incorrect: that's like saying it is not grand theft auto to take the 100th car from an assembly line, because it is a duplicate of the first car.:P:lol:

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jimmyjammer69

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#349 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

[QUOTE="Lethargika"]

I would say it IS stealing. I kind of look at it similar to a street merchant with his inventory all laid out on a table, each with a pricetag. The items are there for everyone to see, but there always is a pricetag. You can of course just take the item without paying for it quite easily, and not get caught, or you can be honest and pay for it. It's very similar if you think about it, don't let the digital format fool you. The originator should be getting money for every copy distributed.

topsemag55

I agree. Those who say "duplicating" vs. theft are incorrect: that's like saying it is not grand theft auto to take the 100th car from an assembly line, because it is a duplicate of the first car.:P:lol:

No it's not, because the duplication isn't at the expense of the manufacturer.
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chessmaster1989

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#350 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

After thinking about it some more, I think I might be a little sympathetic to the idea that intellectual property is illegitimate. David Hume justified private property only under the condition that resources are limited, and said that you can't really justify private property when resources are unlimited. When it comes to the mere replication of an idea, resources are essentially unlimited, thus making intellectual property illegitimate.

I'm not sure if I really buy my argument at this time - just sort of throwing it out there.

-Sun_Tzu-

But resources put into creating something that would be considered intellectual property are not unlimited, and it is generally these efforts that are meant to be protected under copyright laws.