What is simply the greatest FIGHTING game EVER?

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]Do you know anything about competitive smash? i honestly wont argue with you if you're ignorant of the topic at hand.
Notsogr8one

Considering it is more of timing and positioning of your character than any deep skills involved, I'd say it is shallow fighting game.

Not to mention the lack of balance of characters and just random things happening in the game.

Certainly not a deep fighting that is measure of skills compared to one and other like Virtua Fighter 5 or Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike

And what random things happening in the game sir?

ALL fighting games are about positioning. However, other fighting games like Virtua Fighter have other depth, using counters, blocks, skill related combos, precision of the button input, etc.

Also, random things I was talking about was related to items.

If SSMB is deep, so is Ehrgeiz

There are counters, blocks, and even skill related combos in smash. It seems you have not really played it to it's potential.

There is no such things as counters or blocks in Smash. There is Block not Blocks. And there is counter hits yes but counters no.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]Do you know anything about competitive smash? i honestly wont argue with you if you're ignorant of the topic at hand.
TriangleHard

Considering it is more of timing and positioning of your character than any deep skills involved, I'd say it is shallow fighting game.

Not to mention the lack of balance of characters and just random things happening in the game.

Certainly not a deep fighting that is measure of skills compared to one and other like Virtua Fighter 5 or Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike

And what random things happening in the game sir?

ALL fighting games are about positioning. However, other fighting games like Virtua Fighter have other depth, using counters, blocks, skill related combos, precision of the button input, etc.

Also, random things I was talking about was related to items.

If SSMB is deep, so is Ehrgeiz

smash has counters and blocking (shielding, shiled grabbing, shield jumping etc). Precision of button imput? Skill related combos? :lol: Smash is basically MADE of those two elements. Lets see you waveshine a fast faller from 0-50%. Skill and precision are what make smash a competitive game. the fact that you think smash doesnt have countering, blocking, combos and precise button pressing onkly proves you know nothing of the game.

Also, smash is played competitively without items, so just as i thought, you once again have no clue what you're talking about. :|

Face it, you dont know anything about smash. You're basically making an arguement and making stabs in the dark at how you think smash is played. the fact that you bring up items only proves this.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

The game is not balanced. Period. It is horribly unbalanced.

JPOBS

The King of Fighters

How? lol are you serious. Some characters are obviously better then others while other characters are just useless. If you want to know what real balance is then I suggest you play The King of Fighters.

Blackbond

QFMFT.

I've never felt as though I was at a disadvantage playing that game, even playing Capcom vs SNK2 I still felt as though there was a level of balance - depending on your fighting style of course.

I would dominate my friend with Sagat as a joke simply because I know how he plays, and how Sagat is like cryptonite to him. Btw, King >>> Dudley. ;)

Although I am british.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

The game is not balanced. Period. It is horribly unbalanced.

Blackbond

The King of Fighters

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

How? lol are you serious. Some characters are obviously better then others while other characters are just useless. If you want to know what real balance is then I suggest you play The King of Fighters.

inertk

QFMFT.

I've never felt as though I was at a disadvantage playing that game, even playing Capcom vs SNK2 I still felt as though there was a level of balance - depending on your fighting style of course.

I would dominate my friend with Sagat as a joke simply because I know how he plays, and how Sagat is like cryptonite to him. Btw, King >>> Dudley. ;)

Although I am british.

You have no dignity!!!

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

Notsogr8one

Blackbond seems to have a fair idea of what he's talking about. the other guy is clueless though.

[QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

JPOBS

Blackbond seems to have a fair idea of what he's talking about. the other guy is clueless though.

I have to agree. Just thought I'd throw them in though. Oh well.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

The game is not balanced. Period. It is horribly unbalanced.

JPOBS

The King of Fighters

Um that the characters are for the most part ALL balanced. Unlike characters like Mew Two and Marth.

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

Notsogr8one

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

The game is not balanced. Period. It is horribly unbalanced.

Blackbond

The King of Fighters

Um that the character are for the most part ALL balanced. Unlike characters like Mew Two and Marth.

Explain how King of fighters is balanced. dont tell me "because it is." Give me real reasoning. i want to see if you know what you're talking about or you are just making assumptions.

[QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

TriangleHard

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

[QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

TriangleHard

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

Not entirely. It's advanced compared to how most people assume it's played but it does go a lot farther. And I don't think you really watched them all in that short time ;P

Listen I love Smash and play it a lot. But nobody can deny it has huge balance issues that need to be addressed in its sequel.Blackbond

All you seem to say is that it has huge balanced issues but cant seem to actually point them out....

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

The game is not balanced. Period. It is horribly unbalanced.

JPOBS

The King of Fighters

Um that the character are for the most part ALL balanced. Unlike characters like Mew Two and Marth.

Explain how King of fighters is balanced. dont tell me "because it is." Give me real reasoning. i want to see if you know what you're talking about or you are just making assumptions.

No characters have advantages they are for the most part equal. In tournament play you won't see one character dominating aka Marth. It is an equal playing field. How can I explain it? It is what it is. Unless you have something specific to ask?

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

Notsogr8one

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

Not entirely. It's advanced compared to how most people assume it's played but it does go a lot farther. And I don't think you really watched them all in that short time ;P

Seriously... just go play Virtua Fighter 5.

Then you will see how deep a fightin game can go.

I bet you never really played that deeply have you?

[QUOTE="Notsogr8one"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

TriangleHard

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

Not entirely. It's advanced compared to how most people assume it's played but it does go a lot farther. And I don't think you really watched them all in that short time ;P

Seriously... just go play Virtua Fighter 5.

Then you will see how deep a fightin game can go.

I bet you never really played that deeply have you?

Nope but at least I'm not trying to BS my way about it :) I'm just trying to defend SSBM

No characters have advantages they are for the most part equal. In tournament play you won't see one character dominating aka Marth. It is an equal playing field. How can I explain it? It is what it is. Unless you have something specific to ask?

Blackbond

however, ice climbers, captain falcon, samus, and donkey kong have all been played winning success.

[QUOTE="inertk"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

How? lol are you serious. Some characters are obviously better then others while other characters are just useless. If you want to know what real balance is then I suggest you play The King of Fighters.

Blackbond

QFMFT.

I've never felt as though I was at a disadvantage playing that game, even playing Capcom vs SNK2 I still felt as though there was a level of balance - depending on your fighting style of course.

I would dominate my friend with Sagat as a joke simply because I know how he plays, and how Sagat is like cryptonite to him. Btw, King >>> Dudley. ;)

Although I am british.

You have no dignity!!!

Kicks >> Punches. Look deep into your heart, you know I'm right.

[QUOTE="Notsogr8one"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

TriangleHard

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

Not entirely. It's advanced compared to how most people assume it's played but it does go a lot farther. And I don't think you really watched them all in that short time ;P

Seriously... just go play Virtua Fighter 5.

Then you will see how deep a fightin game can go.

I bet you never really played that deeply have you?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Listen I love Smash and play it a lot. But nobody can deny it has huge balance issues that need to be addressed in its sequel.JPOBS

All you seem to say is that it has huge balanced issues but cant seem to actually point them out....

Smash Brothers has a Tier list correct? King of Fighters has a couple low tier characters here and there but there is rarely a thing such as a high tier character. There are not characters within the game that dominate such as Sheik, Marth, and Peach. There are not worthless characters such as Game and Watch, Mew Two, Pichu, Young Link, and Kirby.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Listen I love Smash and play it a lot. But nobody can deny it has huge balance issues that need to be addressed in its sequel.Blackbond

All you seem to say is that it has huge balanced issues but cant seem to actually point them out....

Smash Brothers has a Tier list correct? King of Fighters has a couple low tier characters here and there but there is rarely a thing such as a high tier character. There are not characters within the game that dominate such as Sheik, Marth, and Peach. There are not worthless characters such as Game and Watch, Mew Two, Pichu, Young Link, and Kirby.

P.S. Game and Watch owns -_-

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="JPOBS"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Listen I love Smash and play it a lot. But nobody can deny it has huge balance issues that need to be addressed in its sequel.JPOBS

All you seem to say is that it has huge balanced issues but cant seem to actually point them out....

Smash Brothers has a Tier list correct? King of Fighters has a couple low tier characters here and there but there is rarely a thing such as a high tier character. There are not characters within the game that dominate such as Sheik, Marth, and Peach. There are not worthless characters such as Game and Watch, Mew Two, Pichu, Young Link, and Kirby.

P.S. Game and Watch owns -_-

WRONG! Bumblebee Ness owns. No one can take that Yo-Yo

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No characters have advantages they are for the most part equal. In tournament play you won't see one character dominating aka Marth. It is an equal playing field. How can I explain it? It is what it is. Unless you have something specific to ask?

JPOBS

however, ice climbers, captain falcon, samus, and donkey kong have all been played winning success.

Top Tier:

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Peach

Middle Tier:

1. Captain Falcon
2. Ice Climbers
3. Samus
4. Doctor Mario
5. Jigglypuff
6. Mario
7. Ganondorf

Low Tier:

1. Link
2. Luigi
3. Donkey Kong
4. Roy
5. Young Link
6. Pikachu
7. Bottom Tier:
8. Yoshi
9. Zelda
10. Mr. Game and Watch
11. Ness
12. Bowser Kirby
13. Pichu
14. Mewtwo

Look how many low Tier characters there are. Look how many characters are completly useless in compeitive play. Its more then half the games actual characters. That is absurd.

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"]

Just for a better idea of what you're up against, here are some "Advanced How-To-Play" videos:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

JPOBS

You call that advanced?

.....

Go play real fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 and then come back.

Not entirely. It's advanced compared to how most people assume it's played but it does go a lot farther. And I don't think you really watched them all in that short time ;P

Seriously... just go play Virtua Fighter 5.

Then you will see how deep a fightin game can go.

I bet you never really played that deeply have you?

Did I have to watch entire thing when they are explaining simple game mechanics?

I skimmed through it and I saw bunch of simple game mechanics.

Let's me tell you what a deep a real fighting game is.

Check Virtua Fighter 5 for instance. People are studying frames of animation to take advantage of the game. Yes they count FRAMES of animation and within that 4 frames of animation you have to press a button to get that move done, and that's how you find opening between each attack to get your chance to counter attack.

Studying EACH moves, when there are over 100 moves per character. That's how deep a fighting game can go.

[QUOTE="_Pedro_"]

[QUOTE="groudyogre"]SSBM anyone?JPOBS

To tell you the truth, SSBM is really just a Party game with fighting elements.

SSBM is at heart a Party game with fighting elements. Take away the items and add the MANY restrictions you have in competitive smash you're left with just the fighting elements. Just judging the moves by their nature shows that those weren't intentional by the devs and not only that the fun decreases substantially...

Stop promoting SSBM for the fighting elements. SSBM is a great deal of fun, because it takes away all those restrictions in normal fighting games and adds a bit of luck.

Smash also does not have counters. It has counter attacks yes but not counters. These below are examples of counters.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="inertk"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

How? lol are you serious. Some characters are obviously better then others while other characters are just useless. If you want to know what real balance is then I suggest you play The King of Fighters.

inertk

QFMFT.

I've never felt as though I was at a disadvantage playing that game, even playing Capcom vs SNK2 I still felt as though there was a level of balance - depending on your fighting style of course.

I would dominate my friend with Sagat as a joke simply because I know how he plays, and how Sagat is like cryptonite to him. Btw, King >>> Dudley. ;)

Although I am british.

You have no dignity!!!

Kicks >> Punches. Look deep into your heart, you know I'm right.

Real men don't kick. Real men fight like gentlemen.

Did I have to watch entire thing when they are explaining simple game mechanics?

I skimmed through it and I saw bunch of simple game mechanics.

Let's me tell you what a deep a real fighting game is.

Check Virtua Fighter 5 for instance. People are studying frames of animation to take advantage of the game. Yes they count FRAMES of animation and within that 4 frames of animation you have to press a button to get that move done, and that's how you find opening between each attack to get your chance to counter attack.

Studying EACH moves, when there are over 100 moves per character. That's how deep a fighting game can go.

TriangleHard

Frames are counted in Smash too. Don't try to fight what you don't know.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="_Pedro_"]

[QUOTE="groudyogre"]SSBM anyone?_Pedro_

To tell you the truth, SSBM is really just a Party game with fighting elements.

SSBM is at heart a Party game with fighting elements. Take away the items and add the MANY restrictions you have in competitive smash you're left with just the fighting elements. Just judging the moves by their nature shows that those weren't intentional by the devs and not only that the fun decreases substantially...

Stop promoting SSBM for the fighting elements, because fighting games generally start getting boring very quickly. SSBM is a great deal of fun, because it takes away all those restrictions in normal fighting games and adds a bit of luck.

I actually disagree. Ever since I've started playing competetively it's gotten a lot more fun. Like seriously it never seems to get boring as long as you have someone of somewhat equal skill to play with.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No characters have advantages they are for the most part equal. In tournament play you won't see one character dominating aka Marth. It is an equal playing field. How can I explain it? It is what it is. Unless you have something specific to ask?

Blackbond

however, ice climbers, captain falcon, samus, and donkey kong have all been played winning success.

Top Tier:

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Peach

Middle Tier:

1. Captain Falcon
2. Ice Climbers
3. Samus
4. Doctor Mario
5. Jigglypuff
6. Mario
7. Ganondorf

Low Tier:

1. Link
2. Luigi
3. Donkey Kong
4. Roy
5. Young Link
6. Pikachu
7. Bottom Tier:
8. Yoshi
9. Zelda
10. Mr. Game and Watch
11. Ness
12. Bowser Kirby
13. Pichu
14. Mewtwo

Look how many low Tier characters there are. Look how many characters are completly useless in compeitive play. Its more then half the games actual characters. That is absurd.

the tier list isnt a representation of "X character is better than Y character". Its more like "X character has more counters than Y characters"

Example? falco is Top tier, but he can get combo raped by donkey kong and game and watch. Why then, if DK and GW can destroy a top tier char, are they not placed higher themselves? Simply because they have more weaknesses than falco, albeit they arent completely outplayed 1v1.

basically what im saying is, the tier list is only a reference. You have to look at individual matchups. But i see what you're saying, i knew all along that smash is unbalanced, i just wanted you to prove it.

Real men don't kick. Real men fight like gentlemen.

Blackbond

Psssht, real men aren't women. ;D

Although I have to admire Dudley's moustache. Godlike.

Did I have to watch entire thing when they are explaining simple game mechanics?

I skimmed through it and I saw bunch of simple game mechanics.

Let's me tell you what a deep a real fighting game is.

Check Virtua Fighter 5 for instance. People are studying frames of animation to take advantage of the game. Yes they count FRAMES of animation and within that 4 frames of animation you have to press a button to get that move done, and that's how you find opening between each attack to get your chance to counter attack.

Studying EACH moves, when there are over 100 moves per character. That's how deep a fighting game can go.

TriangleHard

Please stop posting. you keep trying to make an argue,ment and everytime you fail so badly. you dont know ANYTHING ABOUT SMASH. stop pretending like you understand the topic at hand.

Until you understand the arguement, you cant make a valid rebuttle. until then, you are only embarassing yourself.

:lol: frame data :lol: welcome to 2002 in the smash community champ. :lol:

If you chose Tekken 3, it because you weren;t hgaming when Tekken 2 came out.

Tekken 2 was the best fighting game, ever.

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Did I have to watch entire thing when they are explaining simple game mechanics?

I skimmed through it and I saw bunch of simple game mechanics.

Let's me tell you what a deep a real fighting game is.

Check Virtua Fighter 5 for instance. People are studying frames of animation to take advantage of the game. Yes they count FRAMES of animation and within that 4 frames of animation you have to press a button to get that move done, and that's how you find opening between each attack to get your chance to counter attack.

Studying EACH moves, when there are over 100 moves per character. That's how deep a fighting game can go.

JPOBS

Please stop posting. you keep trying to make an argue,ment and everytime you fail so badly. you dont know ANYTHING ABOUT SMASH. stop pretending like you understand the topic at hand.

Until you understand the arguement, you cant make a valid rebuttle. until then, you are only embarassing yourself.

:lol: frame data :lol: welcome to 2002 in the smash community champ. :lol:

Does SSBM even have high mid low game?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

Real men don't kick. Real men fight like gentlemen.

inertk

Psssht, real men aren't women. ;D

Although I have to admire Dudley's moustache. Godlike.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="_Pedro_"]

[QUOTE="groudyogre"]SSBM anyone?_Pedro_

To tell you the truth, SSBM is really just a Party game with fighting elements.

SSBM is at heart a Party game with fighting elements. Take away the items and add the MANY restrictions you have in competitive smash you're left with just the fighting elements. Just judging the moves by their nature shows that those weren't intentional by the devs and not only that the fun decreases substantially...

Stop promoting SSBM for the fighting elements. SSBM is a great deal of fun, because it takes away all those restrictions in normal fighting games and adds a bit of luck.

smash was intended to be a party fighter. true. The gamers exploit some moves which the devs didnt plan in the first place, true. You have to strip away a lot of the excess stuff (i.e. items, unbalance dlevels etc) to get to a core fighter. true.

But once you're there, the fighting mechanics are deep, take much practice to master, and are very entertaining.

Does SSBM even have high mid low game?

TriangleHard

but it does its own systems of direction influence and edge guarding which i believe no other fighter has which makes up for its lack of traditional high-mid-low game.

My favorite fighting games have always been Street Fighter Alpha 3 and SoulCalibur. I like the character selection in both games. But I am a sucker for just about any fighting game franchise you can imagine. I like the Dead or Alive Series, Tekken, King of Fighters and Street Fighter 3 ( Though I am not too good at that one).

I like Smash Brothers, but I kind of lost interest in the series when the whole competitive edge element came into it. I liked it a lot better when it was considered a party game. People I knew would play the game just to be competitive at it; They wouldn't bother to actually sit down and have fun with it. By the time I wanted to play the game again, these folks would do all the crazy techniques on me, making me feel "obsolete". It was the first case where someone ruined a game for me. I am still looking forward to Smash Brother Brawl, but I have no interest in getting really competitive in it. When I get Brawl, it will be for my buddies and I as a cool party game. I know the games are deep, but I don't like them that way. I liked them better when they were silly button mashers. It's kind of like watching the Prince of Persion series shift into a more darker tone. I liked the Sands of Time better because it was not overly dark. Not to bash anyone who enjoys the complexity of the series, but I didn't like watching the goofy Nintendo Characters mix with complex fighting game techiques. Sorry.

As for the whole issue of balance, I know right off that bat that just about every fighting game is a bit unbalanced. Look at Third Strike : people laugh at you for choosing Remy. I know in Alpha 3 a good number of characters are just clones of others. Smash Bros has Fox as being a bit too overpowered. That was my understanding behind tiers. Tiers can show which characters are easier to play. So what is the point of choosing say, Zangief, if Ken is easier to use? I know the discussion of tiers is not as simple is that, but I still believe every game biases towards characters.

Yet the king of cheap characters is Marvel Vs Capcom 2. I like the game, but I am not great at it because I play it like street fighter. Everyone tends to use the same characters too. I hate Cable; I never liked him as a Marvel Character. And good luck using a 360 grappler in that game. However, I don't play competitively and as such I don't mind seeing this game get that kind of attention. It will always be a good drinking game for me since the over the top combos are just too much.. Yet, I can see why people want to play this game seriously.

I like Smash Brothers, but I kind of lost interest in the series when the whole competitive edge element came into it.

kyuss015

Competitiion is the most important aspect in not only a fighting game but in any multiplayer game period. Street Fighter Alpha 3 is amazing though. Just picked it up for Dreamcast.

Here in System Wars, we go by gamespot's rules, correct? Well, gamespot put Super Smash Bros. Melee in the same genre as all the other fighting games.

Furthermore, I doubt that any review site put Super Smash Bros. Melee under Party Game or Party Brawler or whatever.

Good old Street Fighter 2. It was basically a fixed version of the arcade version with even better balance. Spent countless matches with it. Heck, I got it on Virtual Console and play it everyday. It just plays so good. It's also the only one I master each and every fighter.

I wanted to say Dead or Alive, because it's fun too and has boobs, but that won't make it the greatest ever.