PlayStation 4 gives up to 5.5GB of RAM to game developers

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DontGetBigIdeas

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#1 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

By Richard Leadbetter Published Friday, 26 July 2013

PlayStation 4 reserves 3.5GB of its 8GB GDDR5 memory for the operating system, leaving 4.5GB of space for game code, according to current PlayStation 4 documentation shown to Digital Foundry by a well-placed development source. However, further sources suggest that an additional 1GB of "flexible memory" may be reclaimed from the OS reservation, based on availability.

Sony's internal docs say that 4.5GB is the baseline amount of guaranteed memory available for game-makers (note the memory usage of the Killzone: Shadow Fall demo) and most likely what the lion's share of launch titles will be using. However, other sources close to Sony indicate that developers can request up to an additional gigabyte of "flexible memory", and use it to boost elements of the game - but only if the background OS can spare it. We're told that incorporating this isn't trivial, and it may well be that to begin with only first-party developers target its usage.

Current PlayStation 4 dev kits have a "Game Memory Budget Mode" in the debug settings featuring two options: normal and large. The normal mode setting confirms that 4.5GB of memory is usable for game applications. The large mode increases this considerably to 5.25GB, but the docs are clear that the extra RAM here is only available for application development, presumably in order to house debugging data. From what we understand, the extra gig of flexible memory appears to work in addition to these allowances.

The news that the PS4's OS reservation is in the same ballpark as Xbox One's equivalent 3GB allocation is sure to surprise many, especially bearing in mind that previously leaked Sony docs have only spoken of a 512MB allocation for the system software - though this information hails from the era where the new PlayStation was slated to ship with only 4GB of memory.

"Current Sony SDK docs say that 4.5GB is the baseline amount of guaranteed memory available for game makers - and most likely what the lion's share of launch titles will be using."

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Guerrilla Games developed its own profiling tools for PS4 during the development of Killzone: Shadow Fall. The CPU performance analysis tool is pictured here, strongly suggesting that six of the eight AMD CPU cores are available to developers.

There are many parallels with the Xbox One. Both consoles allocate two Jaguar CPU cores to the operating system, and what sounds like a disproportionately higher level of RAM than one might expect - especially in comparison to PC, where Windows operates perfectly well with less than a gig of memory at its disposal. However, in a world where even the Wii U reserves 50 per cent of its onboard RAM for the operating system, the big bump in PS4's OS allocation is perhaps not completely surprising. The console's leap from 4GB to 8GB has seemingly opened the door for Sony to be much more ambitious about what tasks the PlayStation 4 performs in the background and in parallel with gameplay.

Microsoft has already showcased Xbox One's abilities in this regard, but our sources say that PlayStation 4 is also capable of similar feats, perhaps in a manner more closely resembling that of PS Vita - the game is paused, apps are switched over seamlessly and, once exited, gameplay continues without having to restart the code. The convenience and functionality is undeniable, but it comes at a cost to memory consumption.

As it stands, both next-gen consoles will launch with 8GB of unified memory, but with a significantly diminished amount actually available to games developers. However, a big area of difference between Sony and Microsoft's approaches to OS allocation could come in their future plans for the reserved RAM. A Microsoft insider tells us that the engineers behind the Xbox One specifically chose 3GB in order to allow the background platform to evolve over a ten-year life-cycle - it's very hard to add features if the pool of available RAM is reduced from its initial level. The reserved RAM allocation there is set in stone, and is unlikely to change.

However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.

In the here and now, the template is now set for the next-gen launch period, and the focus from both platform holders is that while games command the majority of system resources, supplementary services and apps are clearly very important indeed. Microsoft has already set out its stall in this regard - now it remains to be seen what additional features PlayStation 4 brings to the table above and beyond its core gaming functions.

So basically, right now, 3.5 is locked up in the OS, but as the generation goes on and developers need more Sony can allow the system to use more RAM as needed as they streamline the OS. Meanwhile, MS has locked up their RAM for the OS because the background/TV/Sports/Movie services is more important than games.

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Harisemo

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#2 Harisemo
Member since 2010 • 4133 Posts

holy crap 3.5gb just for OS :|

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Sweenix

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#3 Sweenix
Member since 2013 • 5957 Posts

:roll:

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ramonnl

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#4 ramonnl
Member since 2010 • 769 Posts

Still more than the xbox-one!

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XBOunity

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#5 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

Wish I took the day off this is gonna be great hearing crying, dat 4.5 gigs 

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ps3_owns_360Wii

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#6 ps3_owns_360Wii
Member since 2008 • 2289 Posts

I thought Sony themselves said the OS only takes up 1gb, leaving 7gb for games.

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clyde46

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#7 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?
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ShadowriverUB

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#8 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts
So in other words 1GB extra with risk you gonna slug the system, or some less-impotent functions will stop to work in-game :>
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#9 LordOfPoms
Member since 2013 • 1138 Posts

Still more than the xbox-one!

ramonnl

Not only more, but a considerably more powerful RAM and it appears DF is saying Sony can scale back the OS Ram usage as needed. 3.5 is still a lot for an OS, but I guess that's what you get when you have streaming services in the background, etc.

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Douevenlift_bro

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#10 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

More than the Xbone.

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blamix99

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#11 blamix99
Member since 2011 • 2685 Posts

lol.. this will make them even more angry :evil:

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SaltyMeatballs

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#12 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts
What a waste if true.
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XBOunity

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#13 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

Still more than the xbox-one!

ramonnl

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

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#14 Zaibach
Member since 2007 • 13466 Posts

3.5 gig just for a single OS  ridiculous. Will hopefully be streamlined and more memory given back to devs over time like they did for the PS3.

 

but for a console that has last 10yrs... it seems reasonable, the ps3 and 360 were able to do some amazing things on just a 1/10th of that

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Douevenlift_bro

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#15 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.

 

Poor Xbone

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XBOunity

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#16 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?clyde46

The dc has started already

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Douevenlift_bro

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#17 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

[QUOTE="ramonnl"]

Still more than the xbox-one!

XBOunity

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

5.5GB right there in the thread title.

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#18 LordOfPoms
Member since 2013 • 1138 Posts

As it stands, both next-gen consoles will launch with 8GB of unified memory, but with a significantly diminished amount actually available to games developers. However, a big area of difference between Sony and Microsoft's approaches to OS allocation could come in their future plans for the reserved RAM. A Microsoft insider tells us that the engineers behind the Xbox One specifically chose 3GB in order to allow the background platform to evolve over a ten-year life-cycle - it's very hard to add features if the pool of available RAM is reduced from its initial level. The reserved RAM allocation there is set in stone, and is unlikely to change. However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.

So in short, the OS isn't complete right now and when it is it could potentially use far less RAM than being saved at the moment. Interesting.

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XBOunity

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#19 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.

 

Poor Xbone

Douevenlift_bro

Poor DC and poor you

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clyde46

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#20 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

[QUOTE="ramonnl"]

Still more than the xbox-one!

Douevenlift_bro

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

5.5GB right there in the thread title.

Actually, 4.5GB with a flexible 1GB.
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#21 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts

[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

[QUOTE="ramonnl"]

Still more than the xbox-one!

Douevenlift_bro

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

5.5GB right there in the thread title.

Extra 1GB possible to retrieve as article saying
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Articuno76

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#22 Articuno76
Member since 2004 • 19799 Posts
I wonder how important having RAM set aside for extra functions will be in the future. The PS3 and 360 as they stand now are several times clunkier/slower than when they first shipped (getting onto the PSN store for example), so in a few years it might turn out that MS backed the right horse. With all the current functionality and apps they have I'm at a bit of a loss to imagine what other functionality they could cram in,
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#23 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

clyde46

5.5GB right there in the thread title.

Actually, 4.5GB with a flexible 1GB.

Due to the OS being incomplete so essentially 5.5GB.

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jhonMalcovich

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#24 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?clyde46

Lol. I was thinking about the same.

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#25 yellosnolvr
Member since 2005 • 19302 Posts
i hate to say that i didn't believe the 1gb-for-the-OS claim, but i didn't believe it.
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#26 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.

 

Poor Xbone

XBOunity

Poor DC and poor you

Thats from the article kid... not me.

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LordOfPoms

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#27 LordOfPoms
Member since 2013 • 1138 Posts
[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

ShadowriverUB

5.5GB right there in the thread title.

Extra 1GB possible to retrieve as article saying

It doesn't say that 1 gig is off limits to game developers, so it's there. And that's still 2.5 more than current developers thought they would have. Remember, Guerrilla built KZ SF thinking they would only get 3 gigs of GDDR5. This isn't really anything to worry about, but rather it just shows that the OS is bloated and incomplete.
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clyde46

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#28 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]5.5GB right there in the thread title.

Douevenlift_bro

Actually, 4.5GB with a flexible 1GB.

Due to the OS being incomplete so essentially 5.5GB.

No, that is not what the article is saying. It stands at 4.5GB being made available to devs right off the bat with a further 1GB if they need it.
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#29 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44094 Posts

Been saying from 2005/2006 till now; Verne Verne cow just won't learn. :P

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jhonMalcovich

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#30 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

It actually makes sense. PS4 GPU (an ATI 7870 equivalent) can´t chew more than 2GB anyway. Other 2-3GB are for storing game data.

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#31 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts
[QUOTE="Articuno76"]I wonder how important having RAM set aside for extra functions will be in the future. The PS3 and 360 as they stand now are several times clunkier/slower than when they first shipped (getting onto the PSN store for example), so in a few years it might turn out that MS backed the right horse. With all the current functionality and apps they have I'm at a bit of a loss to imagine what other functionality they could cram in,

If you look on PS3 is very impotent. Sony struggled with it on PS3, is one of the reasons why in-game XMB is so limited and when you play some RAM heavy game (AC:R for example) in-game XMB become unusable other then quit the game. In next 5 years some new trend might pop up and you need to implement it to make people happy without able to change hardware specs, so hardware need to be ready now.
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#32 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts

[QUOTE="clyde46"]So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?jhonMalcovich

Lol. I was thinking the same.

wondering if their including the share feature too with the OS allocation , how about that 7gb usable now el tormentos
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#33 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts
[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] Actually, 4.5GB with a flexible 1GB. clyde46

Due to the OS being incomplete so essentially 5.5GB.

No, that is not what the article is saying. It stands at 4.5GB being made available to devs right off the bat with a further 1GB if they need it.

And guess what KZ SF uses 4.5 gb :shock:
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#34 TheRealBigRich
Member since 2010 • 784 Posts

its crazy that we are at the point of arguing 4.5 vs 5 or 5.5 vs 5 like people cant be serious

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#35 JamDev
Member since 2013 • 992 Posts
Seems like a weird decision to me. Sony have been making a big deal about developers demanding more RAM, so they added 4GB's at the last minute and are now roping most of that off for the OS and possible future uses? Have to wonder what's changed about their OS and additional functionality since the 4GB machine was planned, can't imagine they were planning on limiting devs to 512MB's of RAM. Hopefully they are just being overly cautious about the potential demands of their OS and more of that RAM will be made available for games over time.
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clyde46

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#36 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]Due to the OS being incomplete so essentially 5.5GB.04dcarraher
No, that is not what the article is saying. It stands at 4.5GB being made available to devs right off the bat with a further 1GB if they need it.

And guess what KZ SF uses 4.5 gb :shock:

4.5GB is still a pretty beastly share of RAM to dedicated to games.
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Douevenlift_bro

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#37 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] Actually, 4.5GB with a flexible 1GB. clyde46

Due to the OS being incomplete so essentially 5.5GB.

No, that is not what the article is saying. It stands at 4.5GB being made available to devs right off the bat with a further 1GB if they need it.

So in total 5.5GB of potentially available RAM.

Why are you saying the same thing as me but disagreeing for fun...

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LordOfPoms

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#38 LordOfPoms
Member since 2013 • 1138 Posts

It actually makes sense. PS4 GPU (an ATI 7870 equivalent) can´t chew more than 2GB anyway. Other 2-3GB are for storing game data.

jhonMalcovich
People are going to make a real big deal out of this, but it's not that huge. 5.5 gb of GDDR5 ram is 2.5 more than developers thought they were getting with the PS4 initially. The only people that are claiming this is a major issue are Xbox fanboys who want it to be one. It's not. It's just interesting that both systems have such bloated OS's on them -- that's what I find worrying.
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clyde46

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#39 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]Due to the OS being incomplete so essentially 5.5GB.

Douevenlift_bro

No, that is not what the article is saying. It stands at 4.5GB being made available to devs right off the bat with a further 1GB if they need it.

So in total 5.5GB of potentially available RAM.

Why are you saying the same thing as me but disagreeing for fun...

Because you are easy to wind up.
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#40 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"]So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?04dcarraher

Lol. I was thinking the same.

wondering if their including the share feature too with the OS allocation , how about that 7gb usable now el tormentos

Don´t call him. He will start talking about GCN 2.0 blah blah blah :P

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ShadowriverUB

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#41 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts
[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"]So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?04dcarraher

Lol. I was thinking the same.

wondering if their including the share feature too with the OS allocation , how about that 7gb usable now el tormentos

Might be :p but i dont think it will take too much, there way to avoid RAM usage here by writing what is recorded in to hard drive for time to time
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#42 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14496 Posts

Not the lightest of footprints but all in all interesting news.  We'll have to wait & see if Sony pushes streamlining the OS or lets it fall to the backburner.

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#43 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

Been saying from 2005/2006 till now; Verne Verne cow just won't learn. :P

SecretPolice

Don't think he gets it ^

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TheRealBigRich

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#44 TheRealBigRich
Member since 2010 • 784 Posts

at least I can understand why the Xbox os would need 3 gbs for all the extra stuff it does but I didnt see a reason that would make the playstaion os to use 2.5 to 3.5

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Douevenlift_bro

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#45 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] No, that is not what the article is saying. It stands at 4.5GB being made available to devs right off the bat with a further 1GB if they need it. clyde46

So in total 5.5GB of potentially available RAM.

Why are you saying the same thing as me but disagreeing for fun...

Because you are easy to wind up.

Lol you can't troll a troll. I've never been wound up on SW sir..

Troll on.

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deactivated-583e460ca986b

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#46 deactivated-583e460ca986b
Member since 2004 • 7240 Posts
[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"]So where is that 512MB for the OS then Tormentos?04dcarraher

Lol. I was thinking the same.

wondering if their including the share feature too with the OS allocation , how about that 7gb usable now el tormentos

I doubt we will see Tormentos for a bit. It is one thing to be excited for new consoles. It is another to be a blind fanboy boy like Tormentos and Davekeeh. But if console optimization is as amazing as Tormentos claims it is, 5.5 gigs of RAM should be plenty.
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#47 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44094 Posts

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

Been saying from 2005/2006 till now; Verne Verne cow just won't learn. :P

Douevenlift_bro

Don't think he gets it ^

DC, Yeah, I get it. :P

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#48 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

What a waste. 1-2 gigs I can see, but not 3+ gigs. 

Both Sony and Microsoft are wasting their precious system resources on massive OSs.

Even Windows doesn't take more than 1.5 gigs in the worst case senario. It's usually lower than that.

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clyde46

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#49 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

What a waste. 1-2 gigs I can see, but not 3+ gigs. 

Both Sony and Microsoft are wasting their precious system resources on massive OSs.

Wasdie
When you consider all the other crap they are loading on the consoles..
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#50 ShaineTheNerd
Member since 2012 • 1578 Posts

[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

[QUOTE="ramonnl"]

Still more than the xbox-one!

Douevenlift_bro

Not really 4.5 it looks like oh yeahhhhhhhh0

5.5GB right there in the thread title.

8 - 3.5 = 4.5

With 1GB flexible. Not sure what that entails. Maybe developers can turn off certain features for the extra GB?