Dragon Age Origins is so grossly overrated its not even funny (series spoilers)

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dreman999

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#151 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

which use the ****c bioware quest sturcture and character sturcture is less safe than a game that changed up everything in the original from the way we interact with character, to the combate and story sturcture?

skrat_01

DA2 uses the classic Bioware quest structure' It's plot is divided into 'three acts' instead of having a central overarching plot. The narrative is concentrated in a limited environment that never changes with the elapsing timeframe. The character interaction is a derivative from mass effect. The story structure again, is three acts, each act is the same tiresome structure. The combat while having much, much better feedback than Origins is very much the same, only matched with the games terrible level design and horrible transitioning re spawning enemies making positioning useless. DA2 isn't a 'less safe' game, nor does it change everything from the original. It's a very safe game, cherry picking ideas and scaling back production and scope considerable (to meet gold deadlines and cull development time).

1. A Bioware games has an overarching point. DA2 does not have that. Every bioware rpg is built like this: Your the hero and you have to get to E, but you have to do A,B,C,D, to do that and you can go through a-d any way you like and once you do that, you go after the bad guy. In DA2 what they did id this, Your the Hero, now live his life through these events.

2.On top of that the character are now more human. Before we got someone who told us everything or almost everything at a drop of a hat. Sure they were guarded character who stayed tight lip, but that is was most due to the twist and turns in the plot. Now, with DA2, you have to earn that trust. If your have a friendship or a rivalry in DA2, the character trust you and talk to you. If no your a stranger and they just leave you. DA2 rewards you for interaction with the character good or bad. Before the characters did not like you, they left or became worse in combat and you get less dialogue. Now no matter what they interact with you, you just have to make them care about you. Oh, and the charter interactions is more like BG2.

3. As for the loction, that a game enironment thing, not story. And I agree it's bad.

4.Yes, waves are bad, but they are workable. They don't break the game.

DA2 is a less safe game, due to not using the traditional, get the bad guy story and it change the game play for systems. Pointing out is flews will not change that.

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dreman999

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#152 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

Accepting **** and lower quality rpg's , less complexity, depth, story, conversation, choices have nothing to do with evolving.. Hell i play new rpg's. But most of them are not even on the top 20 rpg list. but then again you dont want a rpg... You want a adventure game with choices or a action game with choices.

KalDurenik

DA2 story is deeper than all of biowares games. It's environment thats bad. All you do is complaint that the diolgue wheel is limiting when it does the same responses that DA:O did: Question, be diplomatic, humuor, be agressive, and sometimes cunning check. Also, you clearly don't know what an action rpg is.

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dreman999

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#153 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

DA2 had better storytelling, writing, characters, and choice/consequence/morality than Origins did, but that doesn't mean I can forgive the game for everything it did poorly.

The combat scenarios are terrible. I spent 30 minutes fighting the Ancient Rock Wraith, but never felt any exhilaration or tension like I did while fighting the Brood Mother where you're fighting for survival and barely scraping by. You spend a lot more time in fights in general because they keep throwing waves of enemies at you, and it kills the pacing. I was audibly groaning every time a fight started about half way through the game.

That said, DA2 gets way too much hate. It was a rushed product, it was overly simplified for no ****ing reason, the combat sucks, but that doesn't mean it's not great in it's own right though. It's not quite as good as Origins, but it's much better than Origins in a lot of ways. 3 steps forword, 3 steps back.

Guppy507

This man, give him a prize. He's spot one.

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Jynxzor

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#154 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
I always wondered how some people got massive post counts so fast, I guess responding to each question your asked with a seperate post helps.
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110million

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#155 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

DA2 had better storytelling, writing, characters, and choice/consequence/morality than Origins did, but that doesn't mean I can forgive the game for everything it did poorly.

The combat scenarios are terrible. I spent 30 minutes fighting the Ancient Rock Wraith, but never felt any exhilaration or tension like I did while fighting the Brood Mother where you're fighting for survival and barely scraping by. You spend a lot more time in fights in general because they keep throwing waves of enemies at you, and it kills the pacing. I was audibly groaning every time a fight started about half way through the game.

That said, DA2 gets way too much hate. It was a rushed product, it was overly simplified for no ****ing reason, the combat sucks, but that doesn't mean it's not great in it's own right though. It's not quite as good as Origins, but it's much better than Origins in a lot of ways. 3 steps forword, 3 steps back.

dreman999

This man, give him a prize. He's spot one.

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.
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Vaasman

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#156 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15598 Posts

Thread's still going i see...

I think the TC actually made me like DAO more and DA2 less :?

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dreman999

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#157 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts
I always wondered how some people got massive post counts so fast, I guess responding to each question your asked with a seperate post helps.Jynxzor
I didn't see all of them. Ok.
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dreman999

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#158 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

DA2 had better storytelling, writing, characters, and choice/consequence/morality than Origins did, but that doesn't mean I can forgive the game for everything it did poorly.

The combat scenarios are terrible. I spent 30 minutes fighting the Ancient Rock Wraith, but never felt any exhilaration or tension like I did while fighting the Brood Mother where you're fighting for survival and barely scraping by. You spend a lot more time in fights in general because they keep throwing waves of enemies at you, and it kills the pacing. I was audibly groaning every time a fight started about half way through the game.

That said, DA2 gets way too much hate. It was a rushed product, it was overly simplified for no ****ing reason, the combat sucks, but that doesn't mean it's not great in it's own right though. It's not quite as good as Origins, but it's much better than Origins in a lot of ways. 3 steps forword, 3 steps back.

110million

This man, give him a prize. He's spot one.

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.

All I said to may self as I played the game was "This game should be open world with the way the quest are structured." That and" God damn it .......another ******* wave!!!!"

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KalDurenik

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#159 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

Accepting **** and lower quality rpg's , less complexity, depth, story, conversation, choices have nothing to do with evolving.. Hell i play new rpg's. But most of them are not even on the top 20 rpg list. but then again you dont want a rpg... You want a adventure game with choices or a action game with choices.

dreman999

DA2 story is deeper than all of biowares games. It's environment thats bad. All you do is complaint that the diolgue wheel is limiting when it does the same responses that DA:O did: Question, be diplomatic, humuor, be agressive, and sometimes cunning check. Also, you clearly don't know what an action rpg is.

DA2 have no story so how can it be deeper? Hell the game is more a adventure game then a rpg. Choices have no real impact "Do you accept the quest" Happy: Yes Joke: yes Angry: Yes. And then choices are not important. Then we have the wheel that dont add anything and have more place in a interactive movie or a adventure game where you dont decide what the character should do. You just point in the general direction on what the character should do/say but you let the actor pick everything. Sure one could load after trying each line. But its just retarded. Also DAO is not perfect. But DA2 is horrible to average. If this did not have the Bioware tag then it would be lucky to get 100 000 sales. Everything from the animations, less choices, story ,lore, plot holes, story flow, compaions, ui, lack of customization, less abilties, smaller areas, copy pasted areas. It kinda reminds me of the "If you curve your expectations abit it will be fun" no i wont lower my standard because the mainstream market are to lazy to read more then 1 line of text or think its to complicated to have more then 3 numbers on the screen at the same time. Luckily a huge group agree with me.
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deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510

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#160 deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510
Member since 2007 • 17401 Posts

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.

110million

I guess that's true, but I'm just happy to see they're getting away from the typical Bioware formula. I still really like their games, but they need to change.

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110million

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#161 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts

[QUOTE="110million"]

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.

Guppy507

I guess that's true, but I'm just happy to see they're getting away from the typical Bioware formula. I still really like their games, but they need to change.

There is a sweet spot they need to find, where its story and characters more like DA2, and the gameplay does not need to be like old bioware titles or anything, it just needs to feel like there is more weight to it. More variety and less waves too.
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#162 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

Accepting **** and lower quality rpg's , less complexity, depth, story, conversation, choices have nothing to do with evolving.. Hell i play new rpg's. But most of them are not even on the top 20 rpg list. but then again you dont want a rpg... You want a adventure game with choices or a action game with choices.

KalDurenik

DA2 story is deeper than all of biowares games. It's environment thats bad. All you do is complaint that the diolgue wheel is limiting when it does the same responses that DA:O did: Question, be diplomatic, humuor, be agressive, and sometimes cunning check. Also, you clearly don't know what an action rpg is.

DA2 have no story so how can it be deeper? Hell the game is more a adventure game then a rpg. Choices have no real impact "Do you accept the quest" Happy: Yes Joke: yes Angry: Yes. And then choices are not important. Then we have the wheel that dont add anything and have more place in a interactive movie or a adventure game where you dont decide what the character should do. You just point in the general direction on what the character should do/say but you let the actor pick everything. Sure one could load after trying each line. But its just retarded. Also DAO is not perfect. But DA2 is horrible to average. If this did not have the Bioware tag then it would be lucky to get 100 000 sales. Everything from the animations, less choices, story ,lore, plot holes, story flow, compaions, ui, lack of customization, less abilties, smaller areas, copy pasted areas. It kinda reminds me of the "If you curve your expectations abit it will be fun" no i wont lower my standard because the mainstream market are to lazy to read more then 1 line of text or think its to complicated to have more then 3 numbers on the screen at the same time. Luckily a huge group agree with me.

If your clam that something is not there when it clearly is, I suggest look at it agein. What DA2 does not have is an overall villian and an overarching plot. What the story of DA2 is about Hawkes life in kurkwall and how he/she deal with events that happen there. It about discoving about a person and living that persons life. And you exaple only happen once when your reach kurkwall. Outside of that you have control of the story and quest.

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milannoir

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#163 milannoir
Member since 2008 • 1663 Posts

However, I actually enjoyed DAII more.

texasgoldrush

You could have said that without all the nonsense. Do people who say they hate DAII actually hurt your feelings?

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Jankarcop

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#164 Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

DAII flopped almost everywhere. Nothing you write will really change that.

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#165 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

DAII flopped almost everywhere. Nothing you write will really change that.

Jankarcop

No, I did not. It just you pc games spaming Metacritic with repeated hate spam and blogers.

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Jankarcop

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#166 Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

DAII flopped almost everywhere. Nothing you write will really change that.

dreman999

No, I did not. It just you pc games spaming Metacritic with repeated hate spam and blogers.

http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/988966-dragon-age-ii/index.html

Lie more. Lowest scoring major Bioware game by a large margin. Really? 70's? lmao.

After playing it, I can concur. Its a decent game, but horrible for a Bioware game.

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#167 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

DAII flopped almost everywhere. Nothing you write will really change that.

Jankarcop

No, I did not. It just you pc games spaming Metacritic with repeated hate spam and blogers.

http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/988966-dragon-age-ii/index.html

Lie more. Lowest scoring Bioware game by a large margin. Really? 70's? lmao.

I did a say blogers too. Last time I checked this site gave it an 80.

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Jankarcop

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#168 Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

9.5 -> 8.0 , not a flop? lol.

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edidili

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#169 edidili
Member since 2004 • 3449 Posts

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

DAII flopped almost everywhere. Nothing you write will really change that.

dreman999

No, I did not. It just you pc games spaming Metacritic with repeated hate spam and blogers.

Oh so you're a console player. That explains your love for DA2 and hate for DA:O.

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#170 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

9.5 -> 8.0 , not a flop? lol.

Jankarcop

It was Hyped for AA. An if it was a flop, I doesn't stop it from being a good game.

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#171 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

DAII flopped almost everywhere. Nothing you write will really change that.

edidili

No, I did not. It just you pc games spaming Metacritic with repeated hate spam and blogers.

Oh so you're a console player. That explains your love for DA2 and hate for DA:O.

1. My copy of BG2 say otherwise. 2. I never saod I hate DA:O. I just don't place it on a pedisal like everyone else. 3. Your saying angry pc games did not go to Metacritic and spam the site with bad user reveiws for DA2?

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Ace6301

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#172 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

9.5 -> 8.0 , not a flop? lol.

dreman999

It was Hyped for AA. An if it was a flop, I doesn't stop it from being a good game.

It was actually hyped AAA midnight before the review. I have a picture laying around here somewhere. I have to laugh at these people saying haters are responsible for the low user scores. If it really was a good game then wouldn't there be more fans than haters? Hell even on gamespot where there's a huge contingent of bioware fanboys the game only has a 7.3 user review.
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Shinobishyguy

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#173 Shinobishyguy
Member since 2006 • 22928 Posts
[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

DA2 had better storytelling, writing, characters, and choice/consequence/morality than Origins did, but that doesn't mean I can forgive the game for everything it did poorly.

The combat scenarios are terrible. I spent 30 minutes fighting the Ancient Rock Wraith, but never felt any exhilaration or tension like I did while fighting the Brood Mother where you're fighting for survival and barely scraping by. You spend a lot more time in fights in general because they keep throwing waves of enemies at you, and it kills the pacing. I was audibly groaning every time a fight started about half way through the game.

That said, DA2 gets way too much hate. It was a rushed product, it was overly simplified for no ****ing reason, the combat sucks, but that doesn't mean it's not great in it's own right though. It's not quite as good as Origins, but it's much better than Origins in a lot of ways. 3 steps forword, 3 steps back.

110million

This man, give him a prize. He's spot one.

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.

I actually liked the combat in DA2 better than origins...but thats maybe because I played only the console version (don't have a good gaming rig)
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dreman999

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#174 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

[QUOTE="110million"]

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.

110million

I guess that's true, but I'm just happy to see they're getting away from the typical Bioware formula. I still really like their games, but they need to change.

There is a sweet spot they need to find, where its story and characters more like DA2, and the gameplay does not need to be like old bioware titles or anything, it just needs to feel like there is more weight to it. More variety and less waves too.

This I also agree on.

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edidili

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#175 edidili
Member since 2004 • 3449 Posts

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] No, I did not. It just you pc games spaming Metacritic with repeated hate spam and blogers.

dreman999

Oh so you're a console player. That explains your love for DA2 and hate for DA:O.

1. My copy of BG2 say otherwise. 2. I never saod I hate DA:O. I just don't place it on a pedisal like everyone else. 3. Your saying angry pc games did not go to Metacritic and spam the site with bad user reveiws for DA2?

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

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Ace6301

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#176 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

Oh so you're a console player. That explains your love for DA2 and hate for DA:O.

edidili

1. My copy of BG2 say otherwise. 2. I never saod I hate DA:O. I just don't place it on a pedisal like everyone else. 3. Your saying angry pc games did not go to Metacritic and spam the site with bad user reveiws for DA2?

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

4.4 on 360 too
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Gibsonsg527

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#177 Gibsonsg527
Member since 2010 • 3313 Posts

Well I really liked the game, you mad?

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deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510

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#178 deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510
Member since 2007 • 17401 Posts
You know what's funny? The fact that people didn't really praise Dragon Age Origins until Dragon Age 2 came out. Now people are saying how dumbed down it is compared to Origins. I feel like a hipster now because I loved Origins before it was cool to love it. 8)
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#179 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15598 Posts

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="dreman999"] This man, give him a prize. He's spot one.

Shinobishyguy

I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.

I actually liked the combat in DA2 better than origins...but thats maybe because I played only the console version (don't have a good gaming rig)

If you played the PC version of DAO and then played DA2 you'd probably find it worse. The key differences being the respawning enemies, and even worse, the lack of an isometric view.

Sometimes the camera just gets stuck in unwanted places and it's super hard to play tactically when you can't move your character past what the angle allows. For example, there's one fight with a slaver in the Undercity that is extremely frustrating. In the fight you are in a cramped lower level with a staircase up to a higher more open floor where you can use the stairs as a funnel. If you just wait at the lower end you'll probably get surrounded and creamed.

The problem comes in when the bad camera won't let you click past the stairs unless you're already at the stairs landing, which you won't be because the fight starts right in the middle of lower level. This means instead of just clicking the upper level, you have to click on the landing, wait for everyone in your party to get there, click on the upper stairs, wait, click on the upper landing, wait, and click on the upper level. 4 steps that could have easily been one if the controls were managed like in DAO.

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#180 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

Oh so you're a console player. That explains your love for DA2 and hate for DA:O.

edidili

1. My copy of BG2 say otherwise. 2. I never saod I hate DA:O. I just don't place it on a pedisal like everyone else. 3. Your saying angry pc games did not go to Metacritic and spam the site with bad user reveiws for DA2?

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

So someone can't go to Metacritic and go to diffent version of the game and spam it, too. Stop think that everyone hate it. I mean even this site ps3 and xbox user reviews are at a 8.1. It's only the pc user reviewa that are at the 7.3. Clear sign it the pc crowed thats hating this game, even clearer that they're the loudest and most flamboyant with the hate.

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#181 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="110million"] I agree was well, mostly. I find it overall to be more like 3 steps forward, 4 steps back, as even with its improvements, it was not as good overall.Vaasman

I actually liked the combat in DA2 better than origins...but thats maybe because I played only the console version (don't have a good gaming rig)

If you played the PC version of DAO and then played DA2 you'd probably find it worse. The key differences being the respawning enemies, and even worse, the lack of an isometric view.

Sometimes the camera just gets stuck in unwanted places and it's super hard to play tactically when you can't move your character past what the angle allows. For example, there's one fight with a slaver in the Undercity that is extremely frustrating. In the fight you are in a cramped lower level with a staircase up to a higher more open floor where you can use the stairs as a funnel. If you just wait at the lower end you'll probably get surrounded and creamed.

The problem comes in when the bad camera won't let you click past the stairs unless you're already at the stairs landing, which you won't be because the fight starts right in the middle of lower level. This means instead of just clicking the upper level, you have to click on the landing, wait for everyone in your party to get there, click on the upper stairs, wait, click on the upper landing, wait, and click on the upper level. 4 steps that could have easily been one if the controls were managed like in DAO.

Yes, the bad "riped from counsole version camera" is a big proble with DA2.

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#182 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] 1. My copy of BG2 say otherwise. 2. I never saod I hate DA:O. I just don't place it on a pedisal like everyone else. 3. Your saying angry pc games did not go to Metacritic and spam the site with bad user reveiws for DA2?

dreman999

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

So someone can't go to Metacritic and go to diffent version of the game and spam it, too. Stop think that everyone hate it. I mean even this site ps3 and xbox user reviews are at a 8.1. It's only the pc user reviewa that are at the 7.3. Clear sign it the pc crowed thats hating this game, even clearer that they're the loudest and most flamboyant with the hate.

Maybe, just maybe, they actually have reasons to hate on it. Shocking i know, maybe the game on PC isn't really that good. Maybe "bad" isn't the right term but it's certainly not anything impressive.
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Jankarcop

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#183 Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

I did not link user reviews... :|

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dreman999

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#184 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

Ace6301

So someone can't go to Metacritic and go to diffent version of the game and spam it, too. Stop think that everyone hate it. I mean even this site ps3 and xbox user reviews are at a 8.1. It's only the pc user reviewa that are at the 7.3. Clear sign it the pc crowed thats hating this game, even clearer that they're the loudest and most flamboyant with the hate.

Maybe, just maybe, they actually have reasons to hate on it. Shocking i know, maybe the game on PC isn't really that good. Maybe "bad" isn't the right term but it's certainly not anything impressive.

I never said that they should not hate the game. The pc version has a bad camera.......But It does not brake the game. And that's the other bad about the pc version that stands out from the System version. Does that mean pc users can complain about mashing A to attack all the time when the version they have only has auto attack? Pc gamers are angery. I get it. But don't destroy ever pro the game has. Combate and story is deeper than DA:O. And the choice, though not infinet, are deep as well.

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edidili

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#185 edidili
Member since 2004 • 3449 Posts

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] 1. My copy of BG2 say otherwise. 2. I never saod I hate DA:O. I just don't place it on a pedisal like everyone else. 3. Your saying angry pc games did not go to Metacritic and spam the site with bad user reveiws for DA2?

dreman999

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

So some can't go to Metacritic and go to diffent version of the game and spam it, too. Stop think that everyone hate it. I mean even this site ps3 and xbox user reviews are at a 8.1. It's only the pc user reviewa that are at the 7.3. Clear sign it the pc crowed thats hating this game, even clearer that they're the loudest and most flamboyant with the hate.

First of all PC gamers have every right to hate on this game. DA started as a pc centric game, it was presented as a PC exclusive tittle. Then came DA2 and totally changed direction. The lead designer of DA2 said that the game is console focused.

But, is not only the pc gamers that are dissapointed. User score for 360 is at 4.4 and 3.9 at the ps3. That's way too low.

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dreman999

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#186 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

I don't know if it was only the angry pc gamers. Da2 for ps3 at metacritic is at 3.9 user score.

edidili

So some can't go to Metacritic and go to diffent version of the game and spam it, too. Stop think that everyone hate it. I mean even this site ps3 and xbox user reviews are at a 8.1. It's only the pc user reviewa that are at the 7.3. Clear sign it the pc crowed thats hating this game, even clearer that they're the loudest and most flamboyant with the hate.

First of all PC gamers have every right to hate on this game. DA started as a pc centric game, it was presented as a PC exclusive tittle. Then came DA2 and totally changed direction. The lead designer of DA2 said that the game is console focused.

But, is not only the pc gamers that are dissapointed. User score for 360 is at 4.4 and 3.9 at the ps3. That's way too low.

I can't believe I'm saying this again....... You believe that someone can't go to another version of the game and put bad reviews for it? The site is notorious for this. When Killzone 2 came out the site was spamed with bad reviews for it, the same as Halo 3 and Halo reach. Bad game that users hate is hate everywhere. Look ant Too human, It's hated on all user reviewed sites. If DA2 was that bad, it would of gotten the same user reviews rating on this site. It just angry PC users. Anyone with any common sense can see that.

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dreman999

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#187 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

I did not link user reviews... :|

Jankarcop

Yes, you did. You were pointingout user scores, which is the same as user reviews. But your missing my point.

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Deathtransit

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#188 Deathtransit
Member since 2007 • 3086 Posts

man, i say overrated and underrated topics should be banned, their soooo redudant, look everything is going to be overrated to someone and underrated to someone else. You didn't like dragon age origins, alright i get it, but still this is suited for a blog and not system wars because your talking about ONE game and not SYSTEMS. The mods need to get on their hustle and stop these blog suited topics. I come here to be entertained by system fanboys and fanatics.

Chris_Williams
I agree completely. The words overrated and underrated need to die. It's like only their opinion matters...
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#189 XileLord
Member since 2007 • 3776 Posts

I disagree


Dragon Age Origins was incredibly fun, regardless of it being a bit cliche and I found the gameplay to be fine. I'd give Dragon Age Origins a 9.0 myself and that's on consoles.

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#190 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

1. A Bioware games has an overarching point. DA2 does not have that. Every bioware rpg is built like this: Your the hero and you have to get to E, but you have to do A,B,C,D, to do that and you can go through a-d any way you like and once you do that, you go after the bad guy. In DA2 what they did id this, Your the Hero, now live his life through these events.

2.On top of that the character are now more human. Before we got someone who told us everything or almost everything at a drop of a hat. Sure they were guarded character who stayed tight lip, but that is was most due to the twist and turns in the plot. Now, with DA2, you have to earn that trust. If your have a friendship or a rivalry in DA2, the character trust you and talk to you. If no your a stranger and they just leave you. DA2 rewards you for interaction with the character good or bad. Before the characters did not like you, they left or became worse in combat and you get less dialogue. Now no matter what they interact with you, you just have to make them care about you. Oh, and the charter interactions is more like BG2.

3. As for the loction, that a game enironment thing, not story. And I agree it's bad.

4.Yes, waves are bad, but they are workable. They don't break the game.

DA2 is a less safe game, due to not using the traditional, get the bad guy story and it change the game play for systems. Pointing out is flews will not change that.

dreman999

1. But that makes it so much better and unique how? Each act has an overarching plot; this is what the sidequests fall under. It's the exact same structure of a Bioware game within these acts, even as you put it. You don't 'ive the heroes life' it cuts out all of that to loading screens, then the 'Bioware structure plays out in the preceding act.

2. No they really didn't In DAO the amount of information you got from characters has based on their approval of you, which gradually increased in time as you completed quests, or decreased. DA2 instead signposts characters on triggers during dialouge, which is why that damn romance option appears so frequently during dialouge choices, and why you can still romance characters even though they rival you.

Now I don't think the rivalry system is bad, I think it's good, and the concept is great, however the execution was damn poor. Thankfully the characters are good enough on their own.

Having characters leave is a good thing. This is actual consequence for your action, something which DA:O didn't tread on lightly. DA2's character interactions aren't bad, but they certainly aren't steps above Dragon Age.

They're very much beter in some ways and worse in others, the biggest issue being the attitude towards characters chopped down into the 'three option dialouge tree', and the dialouge triggering.

3. The game enviroment is very much part of the narrative, as it is in many games. Moreso in DA2 as Kirkwall is supposed to change over the years, and it never really does. Compare that to Mafia 2 which changes its in game assets over time, during a 5-10 year period (I forget exactly). It's things like these which hurt DA2's narrative and story.

4.They don't break the game, I agree, but it's nigh impossible playing the game on harder difficulties because of it, and it ruins the tactical options of the first. Which is a shame really as I think the animations and feedback (especially as a mage) are fantastic.

It's not a less safe game at all. Indeed it doesn't follow the same narrative structure of DA:O, however that doesn't make it 'remarkably risky'. No it's certainly a bold move for that direction, however all it's signs point to the designers playing it very safe to produce efficently - and it really shows.

I actually like the change of structure, I certainly don't think it's a bad thing, what erks me is that it is full of flaws which weighs it down much more than all its conceptual promise.

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#191 xYamatox
Member since 2005 • 5180 Posts

I agree with most of your points about DA: O, but I fear that you are missing the bigger picture here:

BioWare has never been great. Ever.

It's a common myth, a farce, a **** encrusted rusty lie passed down from generation to generation, a web of laughable suggestions intimating that this at best middling development studio is somehow king of the RPG genre. The best BioWare games have ever been is good; that is, fun and engaging, but never masterpieces.

Yes, that goes for Baldur's Gate. Yes, that goes for NWN. Yes, that goes for Mass Effect.

They are a sometimes solid and often very poor studio whose hype to quality ratio is as ****ed as any other major dev I can think of, besides Rockstar, maybe.

jethrovegas

Glad to know others share my mindset. One of my good friends is a huge Bioware Nazi, and is constantly trying to convince me that Bioware are the best RPG devs to ever exist. I honestly don't see anything special about them other than MAYBE being one of the first devs to make the "morality" choices popular.

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#192 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

1. A Bioware games has an overarching point. DA2 does not have that. Every bioware rpg is built like this: Your the hero and you have to get to E, but you have to do A,B,C,D, to do that and you can go through a-d any way you like and once you do that, you go after the bad guy. In DA2 what they did id this, Your the Hero, now live his life through these events.

2.On top of that the character are now more human. Before we got someone who told us everything or almost everything at a drop of a hat. Sure they were guarded character who stayed tight lip, but that is was most due to the twist and turns in the plot. Now, with DA2, you have to earn that trust. If your have a friendship or a rivalry in DA2, the character trust you and talk to you. If no your a stranger and they just leave you. DA2 rewards you for interaction with the character good or bad. Before the characters did not like you, they left or became worse in combat and you get less dialogue. Now no matter what they interact with you, you just have to make them care about you. Oh, and the charter interactions is more like BG2.

3. As for the loction, that a game enironment thing, not story. And I agree it's bad.

4.Yes, waves are bad, but they are workable. They don't break the game.

DA2 is a less safe game, due to not using the traditional, get the bad guy story and it change the game play for systems. Pointing out is flews will not change that.

skrat_01

1. But that makes it so much better and unique how? Each act has an overarching plot; this is what the sidequests fall under. It's the exact same structure of a Bioware game within these acts, even as you put it. You don't 'ive the heroes life' it cuts out all of that to loading screens, then the 'Bioware structure plays out in the preceding act.

2. No they really didn't In DAO the amount of information you got from characters has based on their approval of you, which gradually increased in time as you completed quests, or decreased. DA2 instead signposts characters on triggers during dialouge, which is why that damn romance option appears so frequently during dialouge choices, and why you can still romance characters even though they rival you.

Now I don't think the rivalry system is bad, I think it's good, and the concept is great, however the execution was damn poor. Thankfully the characters are good enough on their own.

Having characters leave is a good thing. This is actual consequence for your action, something which DA:O didn't tread on lightly. DA2's character interactions aren't bad, but they certainly aren't steps above Dragon Age.

They're very much beter in some ways and worse in others, the biggest issue being the attitude towards characters chopped down into the 'three option dialouge tree', and the dialouge triggering.

3. The game enviroment is very much part of the narrative, as it is in many games. Moreso in DA2 as Kirkwall is supposed to change over the years, and it never really does. Compare that to Mafia 2 which changes its in game assets over time, during a 5-10 year period (I forget exactly). It's things like these which hurt DA2's narrative and story.

4.They don't break the game, I agree, but it's nigh impossible playing the game on harder difficulties because of it, and it ruins the tactical options of the first. Which is a shame really as I think the animations and feedback (especially as a mage) are fantastic.

It's not a less safe game at all. Indeed it doesn't follow the same narrative structure of DA:O, however that doesn't make it 'remarkably risky'. No it's certainly a bold move for that direction, however all it's signs point to the designers playing it very safe to produce efficently - and it really shows.

I actually like the change of structure, I certainly don't think it's a bad thing, what erks me is that it is full of flaws which weighs it down much more than all its conceptual promise.

1. No it's not. The secondary quest we can do any order we like. The Main quest we have to do it in order or do all of them to move on. While DA:O has one major climax point, DA2 has 3. Not the same formula. We also are not sent to a gigantic deogon every time we have to move the story along.

2.You don't understand my point at all. Sure they are thing that come up do to approval but those are quest related. You can bribe your way to it. In DA2, you can't do that. And the friend ship rivery system allows you to disagree andstill have a functioning character. Can you do any of the quest characters quest if the characers hate you? No. But with the rivery system you can, and it's a pro that you can romance them if they're a rivilry. The romance promps you complaining about is just a complaint that you can't talk to them when ever you want but it does not hamper character growth at all do to most of that happen in both games during the quest any way. So really what's you point how are the characters not deep?

3.No, thats a gameplay issue. Your in one city, out side of thing changing due to an event,How would the change of environment that you live in change the story? Go to a new place changes the story, but only a bit. But the way that game was made, it's a gameplay issue that the city did not change.

4.I play and beat the game on HARD. I had no problems at all. If you have problems on Hard, learn the system. Give your mages stone armour, pay attention to the envirnment. Move your people and learn ability that changes the battle feild. Mages, Rouges and even Fighters have this.

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skrat_01

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#193 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

Post in quote.

SkyWard20

Dearodear, why format your post that baldy? Just remove my quotations, would be much less of a chore.

Ok,


It's simply because the game is deciding for you in what your character would say. You are given three polarising options, and it's quite clear that the developers know most players will 'coast along' on one of those options most of the time, because of the filtering into three pre determined attitudes. So as a result, that undermines your dialouge choice.

Now Mass Effect has similar faults, the difference is as a sequel DA2 feels like a substantial step back from DAO in allowsing you to have a variety of dialouge options to suit your attitude. If DA2 was its own stand alone game I'd be more forgiving, but alas, it's supposed to be a sequel.

In that example, how? Well simple really, my current playthrough I'm a 'friendlyHawke' mage, and when addressing the issues in the third act, the polarising choices make dialouge far too clunky. Having my character frequently respond 'nicely' then when asked who they support one of two polarising choices doesn't gell well at all with my characters previous tone. This rears its head more often than I'd like, and all stems from that dialouge signposting that I'm babbling about.

Alas this is where Mass Effect has similar faults.

-

No the systems goal should be clear on what you are going to say. Honestly, if you think that then why not make each response arbitrary. It's a design fault, if the player picks a response only to have their character say something they didn't have in mind at all, an absolutely massive one at that when this character is supposed to be your own.

You shouldn'thave to reload the game because of a games flaws (which I've done frequently, as I've said because of this), simple as that, and Mass Effect did suffer this, however not nearly as frequently as DA2 - the developement team evidently didn't readjust from the DAO system as well.

-

No I don't mind the system, I just dislike control being removed, and your choices being throttled and predetermined, as I mentioned up there in my other response. Yes, it is similar to Mass Effect, if this was 'Mass Effect fantasy edition' I wouldn't be critising it nearly as much.

-

Easy, Third act, working for the first enchanter trying to track rebellious mages and templars on the wounded coast, that's where my example I mentioned before happened - ironically it was just before as I was playing the game; this has happened a few more times than I'm comfterable with.

It is an inherent defect of the dialoue system; predefining attitudes then polarising choice - some of which can be completely arbirtrary to your characters views is a large defect.

Another example was a friend who missed the 'romance isabela' dialouge trigger (which was a 'choice' dialogue selection, than fixed 3 options (nasty,lol,nice)') as to her the 'correct' choice didn't seem approrriate in it's two word summary, despite wanting to romance the character (in Act 2). As a result the entire 'romance' subplot never happened, so into act three after picking up on and realising it, an act 2 save was reloaded to rectify it.

That is not good game design.

Which isn't to say the game is bad.

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dreman999

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#194 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

Post in quote.

skrat_01

Dearodear, why format your post that baldy? Just remove my quotations, would be much less of a chore.

Ok,


It's simply because the game is deciding for you in what your character would say. You are given three polarising options, and it's quite clear that the developers know most players will 'coast along' on one of those options most of the time, because of the filtering into three pre determined attitudes. So as a result, that undermines your dialouge choice.

Now Mass Effect has similar faults, the difference is as a sequel DA2 feels like a substantial step back from DAO in allowsing you to have a variety of dialouge options to suit your attitude. If DA2 was its own stand alone game I'd be more forgiving, but alas, it's supposed to be a sequel.

In that example, how? Well simple really, my current playthrough I'm a 'friendlyHawke' mage, and when addressing the issues in the third act, the polarising choices make dialouge far too clunky. Having my character frequently respond 'nicely' then when asked who they support one of two polarising choices doesn't gell well at all with my characters previous tone. This rears its head more often than I'd like, and all stems from that dialouge signposting that I'm babbling about.

Alas this is where Mass Effect has similar faults.

-

No the systems goal should be clear on what you are going to say. Honestly, if you think that then why not make each response arbitrary. It's a design fault, if the player picks a response only to have their character say something they didn't have in mind at all, an absolutely massive one at that when this character is supposed to be your own.

You shouldn'thave to reload the game because of a games flaws (which I've done frequently, as I've said because of this), simple as that, and Mass Effect did suffer this, however not nearly as frequently as DA2 - the developement team evidently didn't readjust from the DAO system as well.

-

No I don't mind the system, I just dislike control being removed, and your choices being throttled and predetermined, as I mentioned up there in my other response. Yes, it is similar to Mass Effect, if this was 'Mass Effect fantasy edition' I wouldn't be critising it nearly as much.

-

Easy, Third act, working for the first enchanter trying to track rebellious mages and templars on the wounded coast, that's where my example I mentioned before happened - ironically it was just before as I was playing the game; this has happened a few more times than I'm comfterable with.

It is an inherent defect of the dialoue system; predefining attitudes then polarising choice - some of which can be completely arbirtrary to your characters views is a large defect.

Another example was a friend who missed the 'romance isabela' dialouge trigger (which was a 'choice' dialogue selection, than fixed 3 options (nasty,lol,nice)') as to her the 'correct' choice didn't seem approrriate in it's two word summary, despite wanting to romance the character (in Act 2). As a result the entire 'romance' subplot never happened, so into act three after picking up on and realising it, an act 2 save was reloaded to rectify it.

That is not good game design.

Which isn't to say the game is bad.

I like to say that I never had this problem at all.

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skrat_01

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#195 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]1. But that makes it so much better and unique how? Each act has an overarching plot; this is what the sidequests fall under. It's the exact same structure of a Bioware game within these acts, even as you put it. You don't 'ive the heroes life' it cuts out all of that to loading screens, then the 'Bioware structure plays out in the preceding act.

2. No they really didn't In DAO the amount of information you got from characters has based on their approval of you, which gradually increased in time as you completed quests, or decreased. DA2 instead signposts characters on triggers during dialouge, which is why that damn romance option appears so frequently during dialouge choices, and why you can still romance characters even though they rival you.

Now I don't think the rivalry system is bad, I think it's good, and the concept is great, however the execution was damn poor. Thankfully the characters are good enough on their own.

Having characters leave is a good thing. This is actual consequence for your action, something which DA:O didn't tread on lightly. DA2's character interactions aren't bad, but they certainly aren't steps above Dragon Age.

They're very much beter in some ways and worse in others, the biggest issue being the attitude towards characters chopped down into the 'three option dialouge tree', and the dialouge triggering.

3. The game enviroment is very much part of the narrative, as it is in many games. Moreso in DA2 as Kirkwall is supposed to change over the years, and it never really does. Compare that to Mafia 2 which changes its in game assets over time, during a 5-10 year period (I forget exactly). It's things like these which hurt DA2's narrative and story.

4.They don't break the game, I agree, but it's nigh impossible playing the game on harder difficulties because of it, and it ruins the tactical options of the first. Which is a shame really as I think the animations and feedback (especially as a mage) are fantastic.

It's not a less safe game at all. Indeed it doesn't follow the same narrative structure of DA:O, however that doesn't make it 'remarkably risky'. No it's certainly a bold move for that direction, however all it's signs point to the designers playing it very safe to produce efficently - and it really shows.

I actually like the change of structure, I certainly don't think it's a bad thing, what erks me is that it is full of flaws which weighs it down much more than all its conceptual promise.

dreman999

1. No it's not. The secondary quest we can do any order we like. The Main quest we have to do it in order or do all of them to move on. While DA:O has one major climax point, DA2 has 3. Not the same formula. We also are not sent to a gigantic deogon every time we have to move the story along.

2.You don't understand my point at all. Sure they are thing that come up do to approval but those are quest related. You can bribe your way to it. In DA2, you can't do that. And the friend ship rivery system allows you to disagree andstill have a functioning character. Can you do any of the quest characters quest if the characers hate you? No. But with the rivery system you can, and it's a pro that you can romance them if they're a rivilry. The romance promps you complaining about is just a complaint that you can't talk to them when ever you want but it does not hamper character growth at all do to most of that happen in both games during the quest any way. So really what's you point how are the characters not deep?

3.No, thats a gameplay issue. Your in one city, out side of thing changing due to an event,How would the change of environment that you live in change the story? Go to a new place changes the story, but only a bit. But the way that game was made, it's a gameplay issue that the city did not change.

4.I play and beat the game on HARD. I had no problems at all. If you have problems on Hard, learn the system. Give your mages stone armour, pay attention to the envirnment. Move your people and learn ability that changes the battle feild. Mages, Rouges and even Fighters have this.

Sigh. That is the same formula. Extend one of DA2's single acts, and it would have the same structure to Origins. It's the same formula, only each act is rather small, and there are three, instead of one large act. Each act in DA2 has it's own central plot beginning and climax. They're not nearly the vignettes you're implying.

Indeed you can disagree and have a functioning character, but that raises questions of why the character is working with Hawke if so - that's another question entirely, and a writing ciritism.

That isn't a pro, at all. This means that how you act with characters doesn't matter, it's superficial. You can have them as 'rivals' and disagree with what you do yet they'll merrily have sex with your character, and have you involved in their personal affairs. Every character. That's cutting choice and consequence of character interaction, that's why the system isn't deep - as I said before the 'triggering' dialouge options are also an issue

For a game to present choice, it has to substantiate with weight, that is what gives it depth. Take away consequence and scope of choice and that depth becomes a whole lot more more shallow. DA2 isn't 'shallow' by all means at all, but it's a step down.

-

That's not gameplay. Game narratives are not story on paper, the visuals (like with other visual mediums) play a huge, huge, *huge* role in telling the games narrative. This is very basic stuff. "How would the change of environment that you live in change the story?" Well, very easily. The game is based around the events of three acts, yet Kirkwall in appearance never changes as a result... over six years, people still stand in the same place, the walls are the same etc. even after a Quanari uprising. Let that sink in six years and nothing visually changes. That's just plain bad. The player should be able to tell years have past, just by the visual aging, and changes in the environment.

This is very basic visual storytelling, something where DA2 faulters far too often, and it's very evident that production time and effort were reasons to blame.

-

Yet I do that, and having enemies simple appear ontop of my placed mages, which can vary to warriors or rouges even, doesn't exactly make it a fair challenge in the slightest. That's bad game design, no micromanaging will ever change that.

I ejoy the fights, and I do manage each of my characters, however it's glaring faults like that which detract from the combat immensely.

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skrat_01

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#196 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

I like to say that I never had this problem at all.

dreman999
Which doesn't mean problems exist.
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DarkLink77

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#197 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="Guppy507"]You know what's funny? The fact that people didn't really praise Dragon Age Origins until Dragon Age 2 came out. Now people are saying how dumbed down it is compared to Origins. I feel like a hipster now because I loved Origins before it was cool to love it. 8)

Man, I liked DAO from the moment I played it. It was my GOTY 2009. Everyone else is just not discovering out good taste. 8)
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millerlight89

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#198 millerlight89
Member since 2007 • 18658 Posts
Didn't this guy just get through saying how amazing the writing is in DA2 :?
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texasgoldrush

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#199 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14945 Posts
@skrat_01 No it doesn't......even extending the act, it will not fall under Bioware's linear beginning, nonlinear midgame, linear endgame formula. In fact, act III doesn't follow this AT ALL. "Indeed you can disagree and have a functioning character, but that raises questions of why the character is working with Hawke if so - that's another question entirely, and a writing ciritism. That isn't a pro, at all. This means that how you act with characters doesn't matter, it's superficial. You can have them as 'rivals' and disagree with what you do yet they'll merrily have sex with your character, and have you involved in their personal affairs. Every character. That's cutting choice and consequence of character interaction, that's why the system isn't deep - as I said before the 'triggering' dialouge options are also an issue" Characters CAN leave the party if you cross the red line. Isabela especially you HAVE to be careful with. If you do not help her when she needs help, she WILL leave. Fenris is the same way...if you dilly dally on the Bitter Pill quest, he will leave you. Sebastian WILL leave if you don't kill Anders. You can ask Anders to leave in Act II. In the endgame, Aveline and Merill can also leave the party and Anders, Fenris, and Merill can attack you while Aveline berates you to hell. You cannot romance Isabela as a rival....but a Merrill rivalmance actually works pretty well. In fact the rivalry with her is not one of hate, its one of love. Ander's romance is poor in general. And how is it a step down? My interactions with characters can lead them to two or three different paths at the end. Aveline could resign her post and go back to Fereldan or she can stay. Isabela could have a new ship or she will realize that her actions have consquences, Sebastian can be lead to stay in the chantry or be encouraged to take back his kingdom (which is actually result fo the Ander's choice). The only party member in which my relationship with does not matter is Anders, but his fate is a choice. Then there is Bethany and Carver....whether they join the Wardens or the Templars/Circle, will have a huge impact on how they grow as characters.
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texasgoldrush

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#200 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14945 Posts
"That's not gameplay. Game narratives are not story on paper, the visuals (like with other visual mediums) play a huge, huge, *huge* role in telling the games narrative. This is very basic stuff. "How would the change of environment that you live in change the story?" Well, very easily. The game is based around the events of three acts, yet Kirkwall in appearance never changes as a result... over six years, people still stand in the same place, the walls are the same etc. even after a Quanari uprising. Let that sink in six years and nothing visually changes. That's just plain bad. The player should be able to tell years have past, just by the visual aging, and changes in the environment. This is very basic visual storytelling, something where DA2 faulters far too often, and it's very evident that production time and effort were reasons to blame." The city itself doesn't change but the people in it do. Its kind of hard for an ancient city of rock and stone to drastically change visually. But the banter does change, the conversations between citizens do change. The inn banter does change. The viscount's throne room is locked and vacant in Act III. Then the relationships between your party members change. Aveline and Isabela become friends, Merrill and Anders relationship deteroriates, Merill becomes more worried about the future, etc. Visuallt the city doesn't change much (except for the color filter)...but writing wise, it changes a lot.