U.S. postal service reorganization sparks delays, election questions

What's wrong with more choices? He shouldn't be sabotaging mail in voting because it benefits Democrats. That's super fucked up and I have no clue how this is allowed.

So now the have come out stating not all postal votes may be counted in time. I was under the impression the USA was a 1st world democracy? Or have republicans been successful with their attempts to sabotage the voting system?

Brah, just because you go outside doesn't mean you're going to get it. Be smart about it. Be distant, wash hands, if you don't like situation then go the other way.

People acting like walking outside and you get it.

I get why you're upset, but you don't know why it's allowed? It's not like he's pulling money from the USPS.

It was more rhetorical, I understand the laws but it sucks that there was never something in place to prevent such insanity or at least measure to counter it.

Unbelievable what he's attempting to do, he even admitted why yesterday.

Not so much attempting as doing lol

i assume there will be in the future.

trump is a corner case. i don't think our system was set up to take into account a president so brazen in their corruption and pettiness.

Why do you think FedEx and UPS will do it cheaper?

Edit: And I see you don't really want a discussion as you only responded with a single line, refuting nothing of what I said. Dishonest much?

Oh what a surprise

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - United Parcel Service and FedEx on Friday shot down social media calls that they step in to deliver mail-in ballots from the U.S. Postal Service, which is warning states of potentially “significant” delays.

Domestic costs would skyrocket since delivery firms charge significantly more for deliveries than the price of a 55-cent stamp, which is the cost to return many ballots

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/postal-service-plans-to-remove-671-high-volume-mail-processing-machines-90079301991

Is this OK?

How do you prove that something isn't working? Removing the tools that make it work.

Barack Obama accuses Trump of attempting to 'actively kneecap' the US Postal Service to suppress mail-in votes

https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-accused-trump-trying-to-actively-kneecap-the-postal-service-2020-8

And he's not wrong.

Request a mail in ballot it is not hard if you need one. Seriously none of you actually have a good come back to what I have proposed because it would work. We should vote in person and it is as simple as that. Why is that so hard for voters to do?

Also as an example just look at the NY election they just did by mail. It was a complete cluster f$%k and you all just ignore this shit like it doesn't exist. Seriously on the national level it will be a complete mess no matter how much money you throw at the USPS. The USPS is a complete disaster and at this point there is no fixing it.

Plus just look at the amount of covid checks were sent out to dead people. These dead people could quit possibly get a ballot that could be filled out.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/25/1point4-billion-in-stimulus-checks-sent-to-deceased-individuals.html

Seriously our government does not have the capability to run a vote by mail and it is as simple as that.

The government did and has had the capability until trump decided to destroy the USPS hoping he can stop opposing parties from being able to vote. That should disgust any patriotic American but cons gotta con and don't give a damn that he's destroying democracy in this country. Also there is a pandemic so saying vote in person is foolish. Some people are at more risk than others.

Sick of traitors to this country propping up trump.

Whether or not you agree with mail in voting. No matter what party you are in. Whether or not you hate Trump or not. You can not with a straight face say the Democrats push for mail in voting is out of concern of Covid. If they cared there would not have been 1000s in the streets ignoring social distancing(and masks in a lot of cases) and they allow it.

It is political to not want it too. But at least there is some sense to be made out of the rights position. FIrst of all we are not prepared to switch to mass mail in voting. States that have done it did a lot to get it set up. Not to mention how it is currently proposed it is very vulnerable to corruptions. And we already know foreign governments attempt to interfere. And we KNOW Democrats attempt to interfere and crossfire hurricane is the proof of that.

So why would anyone want an unsecure voting process instated when there is clearly a lot of people wanting to subvert it? And do not give me the "we already have mail in voting". No we do not we have absentee voting which is harder to do and has been used for a long time and is a lot more secure then mass mail in voting.

But I do not think democrats thinking this through. If covid going to keep any demographic out of the voting booths it will be the elderly. And lets face it i have not seen a poll but everyone knows that most of the democrats base are under 40. And most of Trumps are 40+. Which btw shows the bias there is in our education system and social media(media too but young people do not watch that in most cases).

Oh And I used to live in Kansas you know how many farmers have never voted because it requires going to town? Bet the Democrats all for sending them a ballot too right?

@Watch_My_6 Why you ignoring my questions?

Ruining USPS has far more consequences than this election.

Ah our daily bullshit of the day.........

You see Moderators this is what an actual troll looks like. 1 line snide comment meant to invoke an argument.

Nope. That describes your post entirely. Nothing in it was factual. You made foolish assumptions to back up your preconceived bias........as you do in every post I've seen here from you. Stick to facts.

Hmmm

https://theconversation.com/research-on-voting-by-mail-says-its-safe-from-fraud-and-disease-141847

A database of election fraud reports maintained by the conservative Heritage Foundation reports approximately 1,200 allegations of voter fraud – for which there were 1,100 criminal convictions – for voter fraud since 2000.

Of those, only 204 allegations, and 143 convictions, involved mail-in ballots. That is a tiny fraction of the roughly 250 million mail-in ballots cast over those two decades. In addition, problems are extremely rare in states that rely primarily on vote by mail.

Even a database of election fraud reports maintained by conservatives have no more than roughly 1200 reports since 2000. 204 allegations out of roughly 250 million mail-in ballots.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53353404

The rate of voting fraud overall in the US is between 0.00004% and 0.0009%, according to a 2017 study by the Brennan Center for Justice.

A voter fraud database collated by Arizona State University between 2000 and 2012, found 491 cases of postal ballot fraud out of hundreds of millions of votes.

And a Washington Post review of the 2016 election found one proven case of postal voting fraud.

Oregon has held postal elections since 2000 and has only reported 14 fraudulent votes attempted by mail.

I would also like to focus a little on this:

But I do not think democrats thinking this through. If covid going to keep any demographic out of the voting booths it will be the elderly. And lets face it i have not seen a poll but everyone knows that most of the democrats base are under 40. And most of Trumps are 40+. Which btw shows the bias there is in our education system and social media(media too but young people do not watch that in most cases).

Democrats apparently aren't thinking this through. They give people who will most likely not vote on them an easier way to vote (according to you). Apparently politicians in charge should make it harder for people who oppose them to exercise their rights. That does not bode well for a democracy. As if someone claiming this isn't really supporting democracy and would rather do away with it.

@gaeandilth Can you explain why absentee voting is so much more secure than mail-in ballots?

@horgen: Yeah there really isn't any case to be made for voter fraud. There is a case to be made that allowing enough people to vote will elect more Democrats and the GOP can't have that. Also trump spews these lies ahead of election results in case he loses.

Trump also votes by mail.

@zaryia: How come you always seem to call it "covid-45"? Just curious because I've never heard it called that before.

I do have a good come back. Not sabotaging the USPS to reduce mail in voting. Fund it instead. Do what you said as well. Increase all options.

Why is mail voting all of a sudden an issue for conservatives? Oh I know why, Trump told us 2 days ago.

It could have been funded. Instead he made it worse because more Democrat would have voted by mail.

So lets ruin what little we had instead of fixing it!

But why are you acting like this wasn't for helping Trump win when he basically admitted it lol.

@horgen: States that practice Mail in Voting are states that are either far right or far left. Where the vote for president does not matter. Idaho, Hawaii, Washington, Colorado and Oregon are the ONLY states prior to covid to practice mail in voting for President. So there is no incentive to cheat in these states because they are already decided.

All the other voting is either done by ballot or absentee voting. And the numbers are low because we do not have mail in voting in states that actually matter.

And Trump does not vote by mail. He votes by absentee voting. Which we have had for years and is actually a chore to do.

And I would have to disagree the entire Democrat party practiced voter fraud they day they instituted their super delegate system. It is not even a crime against republicans it is a crime against the Democrat voter that takes power out of their hands and puts it into the politicians.

If it is done fairly and securely I myself am all for mail in voting. I mean during covid there going to be a good reason for Trump voters not to go to the ballot box. Because majority of trump voters are mature older Americans. Then you got farmers and rural communities that do not vote because it is a pain in the butt(I used to be in the same situation).

Voter fraud is nearly non existent. Also polls show Democrats were going to vote by mail quite a bit more.

We know why Trump is doing this and we know he's wrong on massive voter fraud, so I'm not sure what this spin is for.

@joshrmeyer: Covid-45, I like that.

@gaeandilth: And the difference between the two are?

The U.S. is turning into a banana Republic right before our eyes.

@horgen: absentee ballot you have to apply ahead of time and you will receive a ballot in the mail if you are eligible. Mail in voting is just sending ballots out to everyone. I would explain how unsecure that is but I do not want to give all these democrats any ideas. Not to mention even if we did use mail in ballot type voting system I think we need to look beyond the almost defunct post office and look into something else. I mean it is like trying to play the new CoD on an atari.

trump. 45.

No. Here in PA you have to request it to get it. States are not a hive mind. Also absentee ballot IS mail in.

I never claimed it would & it would be outlandish to say that anyone in this thread would be able calculate something like that.

All I wanted to do was address your original post: Imagine how much more expensive it will get with FedEx and UPS if USPS isn't their last mile delivery. You certainly allude to it being astronomical if USPS was gone.

Eliminating the government funded program would assuredly see the rise of more public businesses.

Instead of a separate agency, the government could broker a deal with any number of current or potential new customers.

Post offices, like they are in some places already, could be created for anyone in extreme rural peoples.

And most importantly, it's impossible for any of us to start any type of cost analysis. They are about to get $25 billion dollars in government money.

It seems both are in the hands of USPS. Why can USPS handle one but not the other?

I’ve gone over this before. USPS is the only one who reaches everyone in US. Fedex and UPS doesn’t do it alone. They do it together with USPS, USPS being the last mile delivery. Neither of them can do it as cheaply as USPS either, otherwise they wouldn’t use USPS for the last mile delivery. USPS is a service, not a business...

I'm very saddened that a non American knows more about this country than those who purport to be American.

Perhaps you can help Trump out and provide what this Judge needs,

Judge orders Trump campaign to produce evidence of voter fraud in Pennsylvania

The judge's order, in a high-profile case about vote-by-mail in the battleground state, essentially forces the Trump campaign to try to back up President Donald Trump's false claims about massive voter fraud in postal voting.

You and I know that is not why he's doing this. What's with the spin when we both know this?

Shh....don't let the weirdos actually trying to justify this know that!

Look at it a little different. It is cheaper for UPS and Fedex to use USPS for last mile delivery than doing it themselves. That is quite telling. You alluded that both of them can do it cheaper. Then why use USPS?

Should people in rural areas pay the actual cost of getting mail delivered to them? At a price that will deliver a profit for the company doing?

Fun fact: Did you know USPSIS is the oldest/one of the oldest federal law enforcing agencies? Tracing all the way back to 1772 or so, preceding US itself.

@zaryia: What is sad is Trump appointed that judge twice.

Here is the thing. Till we take money and politicians out of the voting process it is better to be prudent when it comes to voting. Hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of crooked politicians on both sides. To say it does not exist is more of a lie then anything Trump said.

The democrats were just short of an attempted Coup of the 2016 electoral college. Then the Russia investigating which everyone knows was another attempt by the democrats to deny the voters choice. Then the sham impeachment for their 3rd strike. I trust no politician and democrats i trust even less And only politician I trust even less then that is one from chicago from either party. So I would still rather it be more secure then more convenient.(even though it is not secure)

There are a lot of examples of general fraud in PA one was an actual judge of elections who just stood in a ballot box and voted over and over again. What is sad since he was a democratic politician surrounded by democrats that said nothing he was never caught till they realized more democrats voted then there were democratic voters. And he did that for a mere 2500 bucks.

Did not know that learn something every day. Knew the first postmaster general was Ben Franklin but not from school I don't think. Think I heard it on that kevin costner movie Postman. But I doubt it was called the USPSIS till after we declared our independence or the first hateful democrats(the british) would of arrested them for calling it US.

But rural areas do pay in a round about way. Democrats have enacted enough policy that even though the farmers have provided the cities with food the cities in turn have left them in poverty. If not for Reagan we would have no farmers today it would be ALL corporations farming(almost is now).

Some rural areas do not even get mail delivered. Town I went to HS in you still have to go down to the post office to pick up your mail. Is actually a lot of towns like that. So they do not get the same level of service should they pay less would be my question.

You may be in favour of privatising the mail but this stuff happening right now is kinda crazy.

Not crazy. Undemocratic.

@LJS9502_basic: It's an attack, direct interference. Crazy really.

What is this trash. Give the judge evidence of massive fraud or sit down.

What scares me about this move is how Trump is not even trying to hide his true intentions. He might as well get up at one of his press conferences and say "F*** you America, I can do whatever I want."

He puts a man who has openly supported him in charge of the Postal Service and now, only months from an election that he could lose, our new Postmaster General takes such steps as removing sorting machines from Post Office facilities.

If the idea is to improve the service of the Post Office, then how does taking out an important piece of machinery accomplish this goal? That's like if I became the CEO of Wal-Mart and my first task was to remove all the baskets from the store.

How would that help things out?

This is what scares me about Trump. Presidents have always walked a fine line between doing their job without abusing the power invested in them. All of them have bent the rules a bit if they felt it was for the good of the nation or found loopholes like making Executive Orders if they wanted to bypass Congress and get something done.

But Trump has not only crossed this line, he's poured gasoline on it and set it on fire. He does whatever he wants as President, and anyone who dares to oppose him will be dragged through the mud and fired. He is willing to do anything to get his way, even if innocent people have to suffer for it.

His actions with the Postal Service are proof of that. Trump is willing to dismantle the postal service and delay Americans getting vital letters, bills, other government documents, Medicine, and other stuff just because he fears losing because of mail-in ballots.

He is willing to screw over everyone else in the country as long as he gets reelected, and it's all because he failed at his job during the Covid-19 crisis and rather the admitting fault and doing a better job, is simply willing to cheat to get his way.

Every day he crosses more and more lines, and I honestly fear what will happen if he gets four more years in the White House.

Can Congress get off their fat asses once and for all? and not let this shit brains cheat? but I know they care more about their donor money than Democracy. If Trump wins by doing this those riots for Floyd will be a cake walk for the insanity that will follow.

@warmblur: The GOP wants this. They are an illegitimate party.

Trump's finger-pointing on USPS is latest attempt to rewrite history in real time

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/16/politics/trump-election-2020-usps-post-office/index.html

LOL wtf? He's blaming Dems...

Lol could you find a more biased opinion article? Want to see what Dems really think of the post office?

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2009/08/18/usps-goes-postal-on-obama-after-post-office-crack

I mean Trump suggests something it is wrong but Barrack Obama gets a pass? Trump brings us peace around the globe yet Obama got the Nobel peace prize 12 days after he was elected? Trump deals with the virus and hires experts and gets blamed for the whole thing. But Obama during a serious outbreak of Ebola hires a Political agent with a law degree and no experience in epidemiology but he did a fine job? Who btw as I have mentioned before is Biden's top virus advisor.

If the Post office was so bad in 2009 why did Obama not fix anything? Where is the blame on Obama for the post office not being prepared for this? Kind of like the PPE and ventilator problems we had at the start why does the left not acknowledge that it was Obama that was warned our preparedness was not sufficient for a Major pandemic and he did nothing? I will admit Trump inherited this problem and is also responsible for not fixing it.

So yeah I think him blaming the Dems is valid but he should also acknowledge that it is not just the Dems.

@zaryia: btw what is mentioned there about the economy. Trump got screwed out of a great economy by the virus. And it is worth bragging about the recovery. I will say that Obama inherited a horrible economy that I will even admit was Bush's fault. But his recovery was slow as molasses this recovery is SKYROCKETING. It is proof on how much better Republican policies on taxs and regulations are then the Democrat's ideas.
But this article somehow twists it to sound like it is a bad thing. There has never been a bounce back this profound in such a short period of time in history. Article fails to mention how many jobs we already have back and how much of that contraction has recovered.

And to suggest that the Democrats would of done better on both the economy and the handling of the virus is a LIE. You had to balance the two there is no helping one without hurting the other. Obama talked about that MAGIC wand was needed to bring back manufacturing jobs(he got proved wrong big time). The Democrats really would need a magic wand to accomplish what they suggest they would of done about the crisis. And I still have yet to hear one of these magical solutions they had.