U.S. postal service reorganization sparks delays, election questions

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Zaryia

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#1  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

U.S. postal service reorganization sparks delays, election questions

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-postoffice/u-s-postal-service-reorganization-sparks-delays-election-questions-idUSKCN258197

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A shakeup of the U.S. Postal Service is leading to mail delays, union officials said on Tuesday, heightening concerns that an ally of President Donald Trump is destabilizing the service as millions of Americans consider whether to cast their ballots by mail in the Nov. 3 presidential election.

New Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, who has donated $2.7 million to Trump and his fellow Republicans since 2017, has ordered operational changes and a clampdown on overtime in a bid to fix the financially troubled service, which reported a net loss of $2.2 billion in the last quarter.

The reorganization, introduced in July, has resulted in thousands of delayed letters in southern Maine, as delivery drivers follow a new directive to leave on time, even if the mail has not been loaded, said Scott Adams, who represents about 550 workers as the president of American Postal Worker Union Local 458.

Another new directive requires mail carriers to head out on their routes immediately in the morning, carrying only packages and letters that were sorted the night before, according to an internal memo seen by Reuters. That is requiring some carriers to double back to pick up a second batch later in the day, said Kimberly Karol, president of the Iowa Postal Workers Union.

“It is on the ground costing more in manpower and man-hours than it is saving,” Karol said.

Deliveries from online shopping during the pandemic had already stretched the post office to its limits. Delays have also been reported in at least 18 other states, according to media reports.

Hmm, kinda troubling. This feels all politically motivated by Trump, and how is it even allowed if so? We will need mass mail voting due to the pandemic, but this just screws things up further. It's like a sabotage.

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jeezers

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#2  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

No changing the voting, no changing the rules, you go to your polling station or apply for absentee. Keep it the same

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Vaasman

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#3  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15541 Posts

Trump still trying his absolute hardest to cheat. How shameless and unmanly.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#4 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

The GOP continuously tries to undermine voters and keep turn out low. They understand that high turnout means less wins for them. They have explicitly said so themselves. This is the reality we face. A major political party that does everything in it's power to disenfranchise voters.

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Xabiss

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#5 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@jeezers said:

No changing the voting, no changing the rules, you go to your polling station or apply for absentee. Keep it the same

I agree. I would only add that maybe polling stations should stay open a month long from a set time from 8am-8pm, Monday through Friday to help with social distance and all that jazz. I think that is more then fair and if you can't figure out a way to vote in that time period you probably were not going to vote anyway.

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LJS9502_basic

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#6 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178810 Posts

@jeezers said:

No changing the voting, no changing the rules, you go to your polling station or apply for absentee. Keep it the same

Mail in IS absentee.

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Zaryia

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#8  Edited By Zaryia
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@jeezers said:

No changing the voting, no changing the rules, you go to your polling station or apply for absentee. Keep it the same

Mail in IS absentee.

He wants people to risk their lives because his party is less popular. Like many conservatives, he knows when less people vote the GOP does better. It's the only reason he is for this sabotage of the USPS or Trump's legal attacks on Nevada.

Anything to win. Dying party with bad ideas needs to cheat.

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jeezers

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#9 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@Xabiss: i agree with that, extending the time period when people can vote would help reduce crowds and long lines, not a bad idea.

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#10 deactivated-63d1ad7651984
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@Vaasman said:

Trump still trying his absolute hardest to cheat. How shameless and unmanly.

Yep, that's the only way he knows he can win he's desperate AF.

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#11  Edited By jeezers
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@zaryia: No, I dont agree with changing the rules. We already have too many cases of ballots going missing or not counted with mail in voting.

Plus the US postal service is a mess right now, so no, keep it the same, seperate 6 feet apart and where a mask and go to your polling station. Im not the one calling to change the process thats you!

Dems want to cheat, they want to change the rules!

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#12  Edited By Zaryia
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@jeezers said:

@zaryia: No, I dont agree with changing the rules. We already have too many cases of ballots going missing or not counted with mail in voting.

No. There is no major concern going by the mass data. He is only against these legal changes or push for mail in voting because larger turnout is better for Democrats and November isn't looking good for him. He's even fine with states he is winning to do this. He couldn't do anything legally so now he's sabotaging the USPS. Nasty.

FACT CHECK: Trump Spreads Unfounded Claims About Voting By Mail

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/22/881598655/fact-check-trump-spreads-unfounded-claims-about-voting-by-mail

Trump encourages mail voting in Florida but sues in Nevada

https://apnews.com/19ade6dafb5b6f82f324e4be9b12a7a0

@jeezers said:

Plus the US postal service is a mess right now, so no, keep it the same, seperate 6 feet apart and where a mask and go to your polling station. Im not the one calling to change the process thats you!

If the USPS is a mess why is Trump making it more of a mess? Clearly you take issue with that fact right?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-postoffice/u-s-postal-service-reorganization-sparks-delays-election-questions-idUSKCN258197

I'm not calling for anything illegal, or sabotaging of anything. That's Trump.

@jeezers said:

Dems want to cheat, they want to change the rules!

But it's legal and for people's safety. Cheating would be sabotaging the USPS and trying to get Blue states to arbitrarily cancel mail in voting. When you think more people voting is cheating, it's time to re-thing your parties strategy. But at least you're being honest now.

I got a tip: Why not just try to be more popular and win more votes?

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#13 jeezers
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@zaryia: dems tried to sneak a bunch of b.s. In the covid relief. Tried to get rid of photo I.D, and ID signatures. Sending mail in ballots to all Americans would be a disaster.

We should keep it the same as it always has been. If anyone looks like they are trying to cheat its the dems.

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Zaryia

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#14  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@jeezers said:

We should keep it the same as it always has been.

During Covid-19? That's silly:

NEW CDC GUIDELINES OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFE VOTING DURING COVID-19

Recommendations include voting by mail, expanding early voting and personal safety measuresFor Immediate Release

I know why you're against it. Why play the charade?

@jeezers said:

If anyone looks like they are trying to cheat its the dems.

None of that stuff is cheating nor is attempting to make it legal cheating. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent.

Cheating would be gerrymandering, voter suppression, sabotaging the USPS, and trying to get only states you don't like to not do mail in voting.

I mean why play these games, we know why the right is against it. The GOP thinks it reduces Trump's chances lol. I mean he basically admitted it when he encourages Red states to vote by mail.

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Xabiss

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#15 Xabiss
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@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

We should keep it the same as it always has been.

During Covid-19? That's silly:

NEW CDC GUIDELINES OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFE VOTING DURING COVID-19

Recommendations include voting by mail, expanding early voting and personal safety measuresFor Immediate Release

I know why you're against it. Why play the charade?

@jeezers said:

If anyone looks like they are trying to cheat its the dems.

None of that stuff is cheating nor is attempting to make it legal cheating. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent.

Cheating would be gerrymandering, voter suppression, sabotaging the USPS, and trying to get only states you don't like to not do mail in voting.

I mean why play these games, we know why the right is against it. The GOP thinks it reduces Trump's chances lol. I mean he basically admitted it when he encourages Red states to vote by mail.

Easy fix polling stations should stay open a month long from a set time from 8am-8pm, Monday through Friday to help with social distance and all that jazz. I think that is more then fair and if you can't figure out a way to vote in that time period you probably were not going to vote anyway.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vote-by-mail-ballot-counted-election/

Sorry I am a firm believer that you go in person to vote so the person running the polling stations can make sure the proper person is voting.

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mrbojangles25

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#16  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

We should keep it the same as it always has been.

During Covid-19? That's silly:

NEW CDC GUIDELINES OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFE VOTING DURING COVID-19

Recommendations include voting by mail, expanding early voting and personal safety measuresFor Immediate Release

I know why you're against it. Why play the charade?

@jeezers said:

If anyone looks like they are trying to cheat its the dems.

None of that stuff is cheating nor is attempting to make it legal cheating. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent.

Cheating would be gerrymandering, voter suppression, sabotaging the USPS, and trying to get only states you don't like to not do mail in voting.

I mean why play these games, we know why the right is against it. The GOP thinks it reduces Trump's chances lol. I mean he basically admitted it when he encourages Red states to vote by mail.

Easy fix polling stations should stay open a month long from a set time from 8am-8pm, Monday through Friday to help with social distance and all that jazz. I think that is more then fair and if you can't figure out a way to vote in that time period you probably were not going to vote anyway.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vote-by-mail-ballot-counted-election/

Sorry I am a firm believer that you go in person to vote so the person running the polling stations can make sure the proper person is voting.

If I can get my driver's license by mail, I should be able to vote by mail. We need to be pragmatic, and if that means forgoing our "beliefs" for what makes sense, then so be it.

With that said, if people are against mail-in/absentee (and, let's be honest, they're essentially the same thing) they need to come up with a better alternative. You seem to have presented one that seems OK, though not ideal imo.

There's an epidemic going on, and time and time again we've seen that when crowds form, people get sick. Schools opening? Sick kids. Church in session? Sick churchgoers.

Polls open? Hmmmm I wonder what will happen....

This election was stolen from the American people already in 2016 due to foreign meddling, I just don't want to see it happen again due to domestic meddling. This is the kind of crap you see happening in third-world countries and frankly it is embarrassing to see one of the greatest political systems in history, the US democratic republic, devolving to this.

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Zaryia

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#17 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

We should keep it the same as it always has been.

During Covid-19? That's silly:

NEW CDC GUIDELINES OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFE VOTING DURING COVID-19

Recommendations include voting by mail, expanding early voting and personal safety measuresFor Immediate Release

I know why you're against it. Why play the charade?

@jeezers said:

If anyone looks like they are trying to cheat its the dems.

None of that stuff is cheating nor is attempting to make it legal cheating. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent.

Cheating would be gerrymandering, voter suppression, sabotaging the USPS, and trying to get only states you don't like to not do mail in voting.

I mean why play these games, we know why the right is against it. The GOP thinks it reduces Trump's chances lol. I mean he basically admitted it when he encourages Red states to vote by mail.

Easy fix polling stations should stay open a month long from a set time from 8am-8pm, Monday through Friday to help with social distance and all that jazz. I think that is more then fair and if you can't figure out a way to vote in that time period you probably were not going to vote anyway.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vote-by-mail-ballot-counted-election/

Sorry I am a firm believer that you go in person to vote so the person running the polling stations can make sure the proper person is voting.

If I can get my driver's license by mail, I should be able to vote by mail.

I'm not sure why this is so hard, we do all these things by mail that are frankly way more relevant and applicable to life than voting for some jackass every four years.

With that said, if people are against mail-in/absentee (and, let's be honest, they're essentially the same thing) they need to come up with a better alternative. You seem to have presented one that seems OK, though not ideal imo.

There's an epidemic going on, and time and time again we've seen that when crowds form, people get sick. Schools opening? Sick kids. Church in session? Sick churchgoers.

Polls open? Hmmmm I wonder what will happen....

This election was stolen from the American people already in 2016 due to foreign meddling, I just don't want to see it happen again due to domestic meddling.

It's only hard because some data shows it hurts the GOP in terms of their chances for certain areas.

That's literally it. Anything else is spin.

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mrbojangles25

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#18 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@zaryia: having a Trump friend and political donor muddle things up doesn't make things any easier, either.

Still not exactly sure how that is legal. Just my $0.02, but anyone that donates to a political campaign should be barred from government jobs

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#19  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

We should keep it the same as it always has been.

During Covid-19? That's silly:

NEW CDC GUIDELINES OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFE VOTING DURING COVID-19

Recommendations include voting by mail, expanding early voting and personal safety measuresFor Immediate Release

I know why you're against it. Why play the charade?

@jeezers said:

If anyone looks like they are trying to cheat its the dems.

None of that stuff is cheating nor is attempting to make it legal cheating. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent.

Cheating would be gerrymandering, voter suppression, sabotaging the USPS, and trying to get only states you don't like to not do mail in voting.

I mean why play these games, we know why the right is against it. The GOP thinks it reduces Trump's chances lol. I mean he basically admitted it when he encourages Red states to vote by mail.

Easy fix polling stations should stay open a month long from a set time from 8am-8pm, Monday through Friday to help with social distance and all that jazz. I think that is more then fair and if you can't figure out a way to vote in that time period you probably were not going to vote anyway.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vote-by-mail-ballot-counted-election/

Sorry I am a firm believer that you go in person to vote so the person running the polling stations can make sure the proper person is voting.

If I can get my driver's license by mail, I should be able to vote by mail.

I'm not sure why this is so hard, we do all these things by mail that are frankly way more relevant and applicable to life than voting for some jackass every four years.

With that said, if people are against mail-in/absentee (and, let's be honest, they're essentially the same thing) they need to come up with a better alternative. You seem to have presented one that seems OK, though not ideal imo.

There's an epidemic going on, and time and time again we've seen that when crowds form, people get sick. Schools opening? Sick kids. Church in session? Sick churchgoers.

Polls open? Hmmmm I wonder what will happen....

This election was stolen from the American people already in 2016 due to foreign meddling, I just don't want to see it happen again due to domestic meddling.

It's only hard because some data shows it hurts the GOP in terms of their chances for certain areas.

That's literally it. Anything else is spin.

You still have to get your license in person come on that is complete nonsense. Now you can renew it through the mail, but where I live you can only do that one time and then you have to get your picture redid. So that whole getting your license through the mail is complete nonsense.

No it isn't spin just watch the video of the guy testing out only 200 ballots the US mail system is a complete mess. Now multiply that by a million. I am not even sure that our US mail could handle it to be honest and do it correctly. My main problem with any kind of voting by mail is you have no idea who is voting on that card and just look at the amount of checks where sent out to dead people with the COVID money. The same issue would happen if they sent mail out for votes.

There is nothing wrong running polling stations for an entire month from 8am-8pm Monday through Friday, hell include Saturday if you want I don't care. Hell make it 24-7 for an entire month. You could get everyone to vote and be able to social distance with a system like that.

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Zaryia

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#20 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:

During Covid-19? That's silly:

NEW CDC GUIDELINES OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFE VOTING DURING COVID-19

Recommendations include voting by mail, expanding early voting and personal safety measuresFor Immediate Release

I know why you're against it. Why play the charade?

None of that stuff is cheating nor is attempting to make it legal cheating. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent.

Cheating would be gerrymandering, voter suppression, sabotaging the USPS, and trying to get only states you don't like to not do mail in voting.

I mean why play these games, we know why the right is against it. The GOP thinks it reduces Trump's chances lol. I mean he basically admitted it when he encourages Red states to vote by mail.

Easy fix polling stations should stay open a month long from a set time from 8am-8pm, Monday through Friday to help with social distance and all that jazz. I think that is more then fair and if you can't figure out a way to vote in that time period you probably were not going to vote anyway.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vote-by-mail-ballot-counted-election/

Sorry I am a firm believer that you go in person to vote so the person running the polling stations can make sure the proper person is voting.

If I can get my driver's license by mail, I should be able to vote by mail.

I'm not sure why this is so hard, we do all these things by mail that are frankly way more relevant and applicable to life than voting for some jackass every four years.

With that said, if people are against mail-in/absentee (and, let's be honest, they're essentially the same thing) they need to come up with a better alternative. You seem to have presented one that seems OK, though not ideal imo.

There's an epidemic going on, and time and time again we've seen that when crowds form, people get sick. Schools opening? Sick kids. Church in session? Sick churchgoers.

Polls open? Hmmmm I wonder what will happen....

This election was stolen from the American people already in 2016 due to foreign meddling, I just don't want to see it happen again due to domestic meddling.

It's only hard because some data shows it hurts the GOP in terms of their chances for certain areas.

That's literally it. Anything else is spin.

You still have to get your license in person come on that is complete nonsense. Now you can renew it through the mail, but where I live you can only do that one time and then you have to get your picture redid. So that whole getting your license through the mail is complete nonsense.

No it isn't spin just watch the video of the guy testing out only 200 ballots the US mail system is a complete mess. Now multiply that by a million. I am not even sure that our US mail could handle it to be honest and do it correctly. My main problem with any kind of voting by mail is you have no idea who is voting on that card and just look at the amount of checks where sent out to dead people with the COVID money. The same issue would happen if they sent mail out for votes.

There is nothing wrong running polling stations for an entire month from 8am-8pm Monday through Friday, hell include Saturday if you want I don't care. Hell make it 24-7 for an entire month. You could get everyone to vote and be able to social distance with a system like that.

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

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#21  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

If I can get my driver's license by mail, I should be able to vote by mail.

I'm not sure why this is so hard, we do all these things by mail that are frankly way more relevant and applicable to life than voting for some jackass every four years.

With that said, if people are against mail-in/absentee (and, let's be honest, they're essentially the same thing) they need to come up with a better alternative. You seem to have presented one that seems OK, though not ideal imo.

There's an epidemic going on, and time and time again we've seen that when crowds form, people get sick. Schools opening? Sick kids. Church in session? Sick churchgoers.

Polls open? Hmmmm I wonder what will happen....

This election was stolen from the American people already in 2016 due to foreign meddling, I just don't want to see it happen again due to domestic meddling.

It's only hard because some data shows it hurts the GOP in terms of their chances for certain areas.

That's literally it. Anything else is spin.

You still have to get your license in person come on that is complete nonsense. Now you can renew it through the mail, but where I live you can only do that one time and then you have to get your picture redid. So that whole getting your license through the mail is complete nonsense.

No it isn't spin just watch the video of the guy testing out only 200 ballots the US mail system is a complete mess. Now multiply that by a million. I am not even sure that our US mail could handle it to be honest and do it correctly. My main problem with any kind of voting by mail is you have no idea who is voting on that card and just look at the amount of checks where sent out to dead people with the COVID money. The same issue would happen if they sent mail out for votes.

There is nothing wrong running polling stations for an entire month from 8am-8pm Monday through Friday, hell include Saturday if you want I don't care. Hell make it 24-7 for an entire month. You could get everyone to vote and be able to social distance with a system like that.

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

That is the only solution I have for this for what I believe is the only fair solution. I will never change my mind on it and I have come up with a system I believe is fair for everyone and could help with the social distancing part. Hell a lot of voting areas could be held outside under pavilions or inside huge arenas. There are so many ways we could make this work. A lot of arenas right now are not even being used because of COVID so I say lets rent them out and get people voting. I say open up a lot more polling places also then normal to spread people out.

You could also flip this and say the only reason that democrats want mail voting is because it only helps them. Also just look at the mail voting that just happened in New York and it was a complete cluster f$%k so I think that was a good test. Now you want to try this at a national level? Sorry I can guarantee if they try this we will not know who is president for months, plus people arguing over mail in ballots if they were even filled in correctly or not.

I could also see issues with post dating and people being late and then being pissed because there votes will not be counted. Then they will have to go to court and do all of that crap.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/84000-mail-in-ballots-disqualified-in-nyc-primary-election/

BTW I still think Biden wins no matter which system you go with to be honest.

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#22  Edited By ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

@zaryia said:

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

What do you think they can make happen in less than 90 days?

And let's be honest, if mail-in voting happens nationwide one of two things is going to happen when the eventual vote tally is reached:

If Biden wins Republicans will say a bunch of illegal immigrants voted and ballots from right-leaning areas were thrown in the dumpster, and they may say China may have flooded the system with fraudulent votes because they think they can control Biden easier than Trump.

If Trump wins Democrats will say Vladimir Putin personally dumped millions of fraudulent votes for Trump into the mail, and they may find a few other countries to blame as well. You may even get accusations of right-leaning postal workers tossing ballots from liberal areas or ballots with Hispanic names in the return address in the trash as well.

If Democrats were okay with mass protests after Floyd's death as long as people wore masks, they can handle mass voting as long as the voting areas open up several weeks early to allow for social distancing. I'm not against absentee for the elderly, immunocompromised, and military, but know while in the military I had to specifically request my ballot in advance and they never sent it to me automatically.

Sending votes to every single person on the list without prior verification is a great way to have ballots stolen no matter how much people may try to downplay it and claim it's just because Trump is scared he will lose.

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#23  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

What do you think they can make happen in less than 90 days?

Why intentionally weaken it though (for months now)? That's pretty rotten.

@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

What do you think they can make happen in less than 90 days?

And let's be honest, if mail-in voting happens nationwide one of two things is going to happen when the eventual vote tally is reached:

If Biden wins Republicans will say a bunch of illegal immigrants voted and ballots from right-leaning areas were thrown in the dumpster, and they may say China may have flooded the system with fraudulent votes because they think they can control Biden easier than Trump.

If Trump wins Democrats will say Vladimir Putin personally dumped millions of fraudulent votes for Trump into the mail, and they may find a few other countries to blame as well. You may even get accusations of right-leaning postal workers tossing ballots from liberal areas or ballots with Hispanic names in the return address in the trash as well.

Possibly. But studies on voter fraud and mail in voting suggest both of these excuses would be fibs.

@ad1x2 said:

If Democrats were okay with mass protests after Floyd's death as long as people wore masks, they can handle mass voting as long as the voting areas open up several weeks early to allow for social distancing. I'm not against absentee for the elderly, immunocompromised, and military, but know while in the military I had to specifically request my ballot in advance and they never sent it to me automatically.

Sending votes to every single person on the list without prior verification is a great way to have ballots stolen no matter how much people may try to downplay it and claim it's just because Trump is scared he will lose.

Going by the data It probably wouldn't be that bad. It would take a while though, but people would also die less.

I'm all for less deaths and more votes.

Oh and,

Financial disclosures reveal postmaster general's business entanglements and likely conflicts of interest, experts say

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/politics/postal-service-dejoy-conflicts-amazon-trades-xpo-stake/index.html

Nasty.

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#24 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

If I can get my driver's license by mail, I should be able to vote by mail.

I'm not sure why this is so hard, we do all these things by mail that are frankly way more relevant and applicable to life than voting for some jackass every four years.

With that said, if people are against mail-in/absentee (and, let's be honest, they're essentially the same thing) they need to come up with a better alternative. You seem to have presented one that seems OK, though not ideal imo.

There's an epidemic going on, and time and time again we've seen that when crowds form, people get sick. Schools opening? Sick kids. Church in session? Sick churchgoers.

Polls open? Hmmmm I wonder what will happen....

This election was stolen from the American people already in 2016 due to foreign meddling, I just don't want to see it happen again due to domestic meddling.

It's only hard because some data shows it hurts the GOP in terms of their chances for certain areas.

That's literally it. Anything else is spin.

Is that why Trump says mail in voting is bad for most states but great for Florida?

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#25 Watch_My_6
Member since 2007 • 297 Posts

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

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#26  Edited By br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17851 Posts

@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

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#27 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Trump and the GOP are actively sabotaging it by their own admission.

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#28 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178810 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

You also pay more for UPS and FedEx shipping.

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#29  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

and yet it is critical to US infrastructure. It's used to ship mail, medication, packages...all affordably, too. Trump better be careful, too; seniors rely on the USPS and you start screwing with their mail and medication, there will be hell to pay.

And, frankly, I'm not sure what everyone's issue is; I've never lost a package, never heard of anyone in my life losing mail or package, and given the sheer volume the USPS is responsible for, they do a stellar job.

As for private entities, they're nice but the second the USPS is gone, their prices go up. USPS, whether you love it or not, not only provides a necessary service but also a buffer between the consumer and unrestrained predatory capitalism.

@br0kenrabbit said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

Also this.

I love (not really) how the USPS is often the whoopin' boy for the pro-privatization folks.

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#30 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
...

...

...

...

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

Conservative and Republican logic is that if you have a leaky roof, you tear the building down. Generally you don't replace the building, either....you sell the lot to a friend or something :P

You never, ever simply fix the roof.

God forbid we practice a bit of "a penny spent now is a dime saved later".

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#31  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

1. So then why not bolster it instead of screw it up further? Many will vote by mail because they do not want to die of Covid-45.

2. Why call for mail in voting in states you are doing well in but sue states you are doing poorly in for the same voting?

No one is answering this. Probably because we already know why.

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#32 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

...

...

...

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

Conservative and Republican logic is that if you have a leaky roof, you tear the building down. Generally you don't replace the building, either....you sell the lot to a friend or something :P

You never, ever simply fix the roof.

God forbid we practice a bit of "a penny spent now is a dime saved later".

Funny liberals don't think this way about the Police? Just saying.

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#33 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts
@zaryia said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

1. So then why not bolster it instead of screw it up further? Many will vote by mail because they do not want to die of Covid-45.

2. Why call for mail in voting in states you are doing well in but sue states you are doing poorly in for the same voting?

No one is answering this. Probably because we already know why.

Ill answer them. Chances of you dying from COVID by voting is extremely slim. If you put in place a system I showed above you could limit this down to almost flu levels amount of deaths if you used arenas, pavilions, and large venues. If you spread the voting out over a month and used good common sense it could be done easily. Funny thing is if you can protest/riot and say it didn't increase COVID cases why can't we vote. It would be very simple to keep people apart even more so then riots and protest.

I don't believe in any mail in ballots period, but absentee balloting. So if you are in a medical condition that can't allow you to vote put in for an absentee ballot. It really is kind of simple.

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#34 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:

...

...

If the mail system already has trouble, why not beef it up instead of weaken it....

Also voter fraud is infinitesimally small. Mail voting is fine. That is not a real concern.

Conservative and Republican logic is that if you have a leaky roof, you tear the building down. Generally you don't replace the building, either....you sell the lot to a friend or something :P

You never, ever simply fix the roof.

God forbid we practice a bit of "a penny spent now is a dime saved later".

Funny liberals don't think this way about the Police? Just saying.

Wrong.

"Defund" is a misnomer, or misunderstood at the very least. Liberals don't want to shut down the police, they merely want to divert some of their inflated budget to better services. Take away some of their power and give it back to the people.

So, in this example, the roof is leaking and the previous fix didn't work because you threw a bunch of cash at a shitty contractor. So instead they're going to install, I don't know, better gutters to help with drainage. I'm not a roofer but you get what I'm saying I hope.

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#35  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

1. So then why not bolster it instead of screw it up further? Many will vote by mail because they do not want to die of Covid-45.

2. Why call for mail in voting in states you are doing well in but sue states you are doing poorly in for the same voting?

No one is answering this. Probably because we already know why.

Ill answer them. Chances of you dying from COVID by voting is extremely slim. If you put in place a system I showed above you could limit this down to almost flu levels amount of deaths if you used arenas, pavilions, and large venues. If you spread the voting out over a month and used good common sense it could be done easily. Funny thing is if you can protest/riot and say it didn't increase COVID cases why can't we vote. It would be very simple to keep people apart even more so then riots and protest.

I don't believe in any mail in ballots period, but absentee balloting. So if you are in a medical condition that can't allow you to vote put in for an absentee ballot. It really is kind of simple.

You didn't answer the 2 questions lol.

1. Why screw it up further when it's still going to be heavily in use? Why is Trump doing that atm?

2. Why is he for it in states he has a shot in, but against it in states he is going to be destroyed in?

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#36 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

If USPS dies, people in rural areas won't get mail.

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#37 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

I love hearing that mail in voting is rife with fraud (not true) while also ignoring that Trump and co. all vote by mail, and in the case of Florida, has gone on the record of advocating for it. Do you Trump supporters understand how incredibly stupid you look while trying to argue this case? This is one of those arguments in which there is zero backing to your side, other than it helps suppress votes against Trump.

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#38 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:

I love hearing that mail in voting is rife with fraud (not true) while also ignoring that Trump and co. all vote by mail, and in the case of Florida, has gone on the record of advocating for it. Do you Trump supporters understand how incredibly stupid you look while trying to argue this case? This is one of those arguments in which there is zero backing to your side, other than it helps suppress votes against Trump.

That's the point.

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#39 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@horgen said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

I love hearing that mail in voting is rife with fraud (not true) while also ignoring that Trump and co. all vote by mail, and in the case of Florida, has gone on the record of advocating for it. Do you Trump supporters understand how incredibly stupid you look while trying to argue this case? This is one of those arguments in which there is zero backing to your side, other than it helps suppress votes against Trump.

That's the point.

Agreed. Which is why they all just need to come out and say it. It's pitiful watching them come up with excuses at this point.

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#40  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:

I love hearing that mail in voting is rife with fraud (not true) while also ignoring that Trump and co. all vote by mail, and in the case of Florida, has gone on the record of advocating for it. Do you Trump supporters understand how incredibly stupid you look while trying to argue this case? This is one of those arguments in which there is zero backing to your side, other than it helps suppress votes against Trump.

This is the party of pizzagate and Qanon. They do not.

Edit: Hell, this is party the created the birtherism conspiracy theory and then elected it's frontman to be president.

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#41 Watch_My_6
Member since 2007 • 297 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

Pretty sure that is called "Last Leg" of the mailing process.

Makes a heck of a lot of sense for them to do.

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#42 Watch_My_6
Member since 2007 • 297 Posts
@mattbbpl said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Trump and the GOP are actively sabotaging it by their own admission.

"ctrl +f" sabotage not found.

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#43 Watch_My_6
Member since 2007 • 297 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@br0kenrabbit said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

You also pay more for UPS and FedEx shipping.

Not always.

@zaryia said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

1. So then why not bolster it instead of screw it up further? Many will vote by mail because they do not want to die of Covid-45.

2. Why call for mail in voting in states you are doing well in but sue states you are doing poorly in for the same voting?

No one is answering this. Probably because we already know why.

1. Because they are inept. They could have a bottomless pit of funds and still fail. They have shown that they can not competently do, well, anything.

2. IDK. The message was that Florida has been doing it for a longer period of time...or something. Maybe because of their huge population of elderly? I don't know...don't really care either.

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#44 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@Watch_My_6 said:
@br0kenrabbit said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

Pretty sure that is called "Last Leg" of the mailing process.

Makes a heck of a lot of sense for them to do.

Imagine how much more expensive it will get with FedEx and UPS if USPS isn't their last mile delivery.

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#45 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

I love hearing that mail in voting is rife with fraud (not true) while also ignoring that Trump and co. all vote by mail, and in the case of Florida, has gone on the record of advocating for it. Do you Trump supporters understand how incredibly stupid you look while trying to argue this case? This is one of those arguments in which there is zero backing to your side, other than it helps suppress votes against Trump.

This is the party of pizzagate and Qanon. They do not.

Edit: Hell, this is party the created the birtherism conspiracy theory and then elected it's frontman to be president.

I'm done with the party of Trump. People ask for civil discussions, even on this forum, but it's impossible to even start with a group that sits a top a foundation of conspiracy theories, lies, and stupidity.

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#46 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@mattbbpl said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

I love hearing that mail in voting is rife with fraud (not true) while also ignoring that Trump and co. all vote by mail, and in the case of Florida, has gone on the record of advocating for it. Do you Trump supporters understand how incredibly stupid you look while trying to argue this case? This is one of those arguments in which there is zero backing to your side, other than it helps suppress votes against Trump.

This is the party of pizzagate and Qanon. They do not.

Edit: Hell, this is party the created the birtherism conspiracy theory and then elected it's frontman to be president.

I'm done with the party of Trump. People ask for civil discussions, even on this forum, but it's impossible to even start with a group that sits a top a foundation of conspiracy theories, lies, and stupidity.

Commander in conspiracy? Is that the nickname for Trump some places?

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#47 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts

I'm going to vote in person because just about everything Trump says is projection and I fully believe he intends to tamper with the mail-in vote, probably by ensuring that large numbers of those ballots don't get delivered on time to be counted.

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#48 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@PurpleMan5000 said:

I'm going to vote in person because just about everything Trump says is projection and I fully believe he intends to tamper with the mail-in vote, probably by ensuring that large numbers of those ballots don't get delivered on time to be counted.

I don't think you are far off.

President Donald Trump on Thursday said his team was rejecting Democrats’ bid to include funds for the U.S. Postal Service and to shore up election infrastructure in a new coronavirus relief bill, as he vowed to block money to facilitate mail-in voting.

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#49 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17851 Posts

@horgen said:
@Watch_My_6 said:
@br0kenrabbit said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

Half the time I ship something via FedEx or UPS guess who actually brings it to the house?

Pretty sure that is called "Last Leg" of the mailing process.

Makes a heck of a lot of sense for them to do.

Imagine how much more expensive it will get with FedEx and UPS if USPS isn't their last mile delivery.

Exactly my point.

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#50  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@Watch_My_6 said:

The USPS is the most inept agency I have ever seen.

I know the left will scream "it needs mooooooooore funding" but it has been a travesty for many years and continues to be so under both Reps and Dems.

It is one of the primary reasons to point to as to why private entities will always be superior.

1. So then why not bolster it instead of screw it up further? Many will vote by mail because they do not want to die of Covid-45.

2. Why call for mail in voting in states you are doing well in but sue states you are doing poorly in for the same voting?

No one is answering this. Probably because we already know why.

Ill answer them. Chances of you dying from COVID by voting is extremely slim. If you put in place a system I showed above you could limit this down to almost flu levels amount of deaths if you used arenas, pavilions, and large venues. If you spread the voting out over a month and used good common sense it could be done easily. Funny thing is if you can protest/riot and say it didn't increase COVID cases why can't we vote. It would be very simple to keep people apart even more so then riots and protest.

I don't believe in any mail in ballots period, but absentee balloting. So if you are in a medical condition that can't allow you to vote put in for an absentee ballot. It really is kind of simple.

You didn't answer the 2 questions lol.

1. Why screw it up further when it's still going to be heavily in use? Why is Trump doing that atm?

2. Why is he for it in states he has a shot in, but against it in states he is going to be destroyed in?

1. Pretty simple the mail service is already screwed up and you really can't make it any worse. Lets get real here. The government has wasted SOOOOOOO much money on the USPS and it has not gotten better. This is like any other government run institution, it just sucks and they overspend trying to fix it. That is the main reason I do not want the government running my healthcare it will just be a HUGE CF.

2.Since this is a state issue, why waste money in the states like California and New York when it is just a waste of money. Also he should focus on the states that he has issue because it is really hard to take ALL 50 states to court at the same time. Seriously I do not like the guy but this is pretty simple.