So remember when we thought the Corona virus being created in a lab was a crazy conspiracy?

@appariti0n: Just wondering how people are thinking this was leaked from a lab on a practical level. This is a virus. The virus is spread through droplets and particles. Let’s assume the Lab picked up samples from the cave ( Nobody in their right mind is arguing that it was created in a lab) and informed the Chinese authorities. Are we suggesting that the authorities decided to cull the old by (presumably) infecting lab workers and asking them to spread the virus (Which was already present outside the lab and being Transmitted anyway)?

Or is the theory that scientists from the lab bottled it and sprayed it onto surfaces for others to touch?

If the W.H.O have stated that it is “extremely unlikely” that the virus was leaked from a lab, wouldn’t it be better for us to try and understand what really happened so that it doesn’t happen again?

@appariti0n: If something is described as unlikely by scientists, it usually means that the hypothesis is unsupported by valid evidence. I know of a scientist who used unlikely to describe creationism.

Now it is possible, that there is evidence that shows up that proves us wrong. But as of now, the China is Not Guilty.

In a hypothetical? I don't think it would be that hard, as it can be transmitted as you say, in the air via droplets.

But you do raise a good point, if it was an intentional leak, they would probably release it as a aerosol somewhere far away from any lab that could be tied to it.

If it came from the lab, it's far more likely someone made a mistake with safety protocols, and got infected without realizing it, carrying it out of the lab with them.

@sealionact: It was actually a stage in Stanley Kubrick‘s basement.

There's still no evidence linking it to the lab leak hypothesis, but rather, stuff like this keeps popping up which raises questions of transparency. China is acting in bad faith (what a surprise) in nearly every regard, but we still require genetic evidence to tie these pieces together. Given how awful China's cooperation has been the lab leak theory will remain alive forever. That's just something we're going to have to live with.

Fauci said it might be likely that it came from a lab. Isn't he the authority you people pointed to as the end all, be all on Covid opinions over the last year?

Well, if the WHO said that... it means absolutely nothing. Since WHO officials stated nothing but their biased opinions, not presenting results of an actual thorough investigation. There was no (WHO) investigation at all and to this day the origin of Covid 19 remains a mystery. Very unusual considering whats at stake and how quickly previous pathogens (SARS1, MERS) were succesfully traced.

Furthermore, "created in a lab" is a strawman. When taking in all what is known (extensive Coronaviruses research feat. chinese military, WIV insufficient security etc), it is enough to deem any attempt by WHOever officials trying to redicule and deviate very suspicious. They know darn well with all the knowledge gathered in decades detectable modification of the virus genome wouldn't be required to weaponize a variant.

Very interesting...

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2021/03/08/josh-rogin-chaos-under-heaven-wuhan-lab-book-excerpt-474322

"In May, Chinese CDC officials declared on Chinese state media that they had ruled out the possibility that the seafood market was the origin of the virus, completely abandoning the original official story. As for the “bat woman” herself, Shi didn’t think the lab accident theory was so crazy. In her March interview, she described frantically searching her own lab’s records after learning of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan. “Could they have come from our lab?” she recalled asking herself.

Shi said she was relieved when she didn’t find the new coronavirus in her files. “That really took a load off my mind,” she said. “I had not slept a wink in days.” Of course, if she had found the virus, she likely would not have been able to admit it, given that the Chinese government was going around the world insisting the lab had not been involved in the outbreak."

@palasta: Forgive me if I place my trust in the WHO and a bevy of independent scientists, virologists and field specialists…all of whom have repeatedly stated that a)this virus could not have been created in a lab b) it is highly unlikely that the virus accidentally leaked from a lab and c) even less likely that the virus was purposefully leaked from a lab….instead of a group of people intent on believing the opposite.

The WHO lied about Covid in regards to china. I wouldn't place my trust in them at all.

Also, Biden is having this investigated.

Giving china the benefit of the doubt? Really?

@sheevpalpamemes: Sure, Biden has asked for an investigation. How does that change what I said, or are you presuming to know the outcome of the investigation?

Also, when did WHO lie about COVID? Did you mean to say they made an error?

I respect Fauci, but I dont take everything for his word. And due to differing circumstances between Sweden and the US, I would sooner listen to Anders Tegnell than him, as far as my situation is concerned. For the US, I would listen to Fauci however.

Lets add that coronaviruses was recognised as a potential threat for a pandemic some 10-15 years ago. It just didn't make the top 10 list. Was 12 or 15.

@horgen: Yeah, and it drives me nuts when I see people claim Bill Gates, or Fauci planned this pandemic, because they predicted it.

I dont think it takes a genius of pattern recognition to predict a pandemic after SARS, H1N1, etc, after factoring in growing populations, and increased international travel

There's your first mistake. Blindly putting faith in political organizations and believing their scientists are anywhere close to independent. As Palasta pointed out, the WHO have had absolutely no investigation into the origins of it, so for them to go on camera and declare there's no way it could have come from a lab is extremely dishonest of them. There are plenty enough "independent scientists, virologists, and field specialists" that have said it's possible, and even probable.

@eoten: Like I said…intent on believing the opposite.

Nothing wrong about putting stock into WHO. Especially trusting them more than intuition or a bunch of conspiracy peddlers that anyone with even the slightest bit of critical thinking skills can easily debunk.

But there was an investigation earlier this year...

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00865-8

A few dissenting scientists does not hold up to the overwhelming majority of virologists and the evidence they ahve published. Where is the published, peer reviewed evidence supporting the notion that it came from a lab?

Yes, Trump is responsible for the extremely poor media reporting along with the extremely heavy-handed/biased social media handling.

@Stevo_the_gamer: Yes the guy who happened to be the president of the United States and is on record saying that the virus would magically disappear, and also talked about using bleach and UV lights to cure Covid and also promoted the use of unproven medication, is absolutely to blame for people not taking him seriously.

As for the media. Trump himself even before being president used the "biased, fake news media" to attack and spread lies about his political opponents. Same way as he used social media for his own gain to spread division and misinformation. So his cries about unfairness when things don't go his way do very little for me. **** him honestly.

As for this "investigation", honestly I think that, be it with Trump or Biden, if you are serious about it you shut up and let your intelligence do the work. This sounds as just politics.

@ghost_of_phobos: I wasn't aware that the antics of a sitting President excuses the media from accountability along with major social media organizations. I will agree to disagree.

@Stevo_the_gamer: The Media didn't turned him into a compulsive liar.

Oh? It's quite obvious that taking bleach orally meant vaccine.

^^^^^ This this this.

What does the genetic evidence tell us? Motive and lack of transparency aren't enough to provide traceability to the origins. Raising questions is fine but it shouldn't supplant actual evidence.

Do you have any actual evidence it did not come from a Chinese lab? Since you do not know the origins of it, and the bat soup story has been disproven, the answer would be no. So what actual evidence is being supplanted?

That is not how it works...

We don't know the origins of the virus, which hopefully an investigation will properly reveal. But at this point, I will dismiss it due to the lack of evidence. There are better supported origins for the virus.

L O L

Negative proof. Get out of here with that garbage.

@Maroxad: Did you draw that yourself? :P

Hold on a second, I distinctly remember Trump and Pompeo already had evidence? Or were they lying, surely the highest members of the US government wouldn’t lie?

Well it's not negative proof. You've accused people of being dishonest, yet you have no proof they actually were. Until you do it's nothing more than a difference of opinion and no less valid than any other opinion.

You didn't just make that argument did you? Seriously? Your stance is anything is true unless we can prove it otherwise? That is beyond ridiculous dude.

Nah, I googled it. Tried to find one one that didn't villify religious people :P And just as a general thing.

Yes it is, you asked for negative proof. You cannot disprove a negative.

You basically made your conspiracy theory unfalsifiable. Thus killing any credibility it might have had. Good job!

Yes, yes it is. Your sentence above is text book.

Again, I understand the obsession towards Trump, but the former President is not responsible for the poor reporting by media organizations.

A tide pod would have been more effective sarcasm, but the media would have flipped an even bigger lid over his trolling.

@Stevo_the_gamer: Don't blame the media for Trump lying through his teeth.

@horgen: I don't. I blame the media itself for their poor reporting along with the WHO for their incompetence, and I blame China for being an oppressive communist regime which caused trillions in losses across the globe along with countless deaths.

Funny how that turned out eh? Massive economic damage all across the western world as China sees a boost to theirs. And our media did everything in their power to help them.

Eh moving goalposts I see. Again media had nothing to do with Trump lying. He could have kept his mouth shut and let Fauci and other experts do most of the talking.

I don't know if there is an investigation into WHO or not. Perhaps there should be. I wonder if WHO failed systematically or if it was the people filling certain roles that failed. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. WHO wasn't put in an easy situation here, and if they acted different, many us might have suggested they should have played Chinas game, hoping China would release more info.

Further we have seen what can happen if some regulations isn't in place/aren't being followed.

China played the COVID situation a lot better than us westerners did. It's no wonder we did so poorly compared to them. You reap what you sow. And going to mass gatherings, such as churches sure as hell didnt help the west.

Huh? I have routinely stated the media failed with it's poor reporting but somehow the obsession is to blame Trump for the media's failings... moving goalposts? Lolwat

Oh yeah? Did you stay at home the whole time? What about Thanksgiving or Christmas, did you visit any family? What about the grocery store? Let's be real, the stay at home orders were bullcrap to begin with, so much so the people ordering everyone to do so were first in line to violate them.

No, what happened is EXACTLY what people like me were warning you would happen. Massive economic damage, millions of jobs lost, and countless deaths due to suicide and drug overdose for something whose average victim was just as likely to die of old age.

First of all, what the hell does your post have to do with what I was saying? I was talking about China handling COVID 19 much better than the west. Which is shown by both a lower human and fiscal cost.

Thanksgiving is an american celebration, and usually not celebrated outside the US. As for Christmas, Nope, I didnt visit my family for that. Nice try though.

People go out and still buy groceries.

But what I was referring too, what china did much better than the west.

1. There was already a good amount of Masks in China, meaning people could Mask themselves early, without having to ration them to doctors first.
2. Acknowledging that the Virus actually exists, rather than flat out denying it
3. Not Downplaying it
4. Quarantining Wuhan
5. Strong Lockdowns
6. More reasons that @kadin_kai can probably bring up

The fact of the matter is. Us Westerners had an absolutely disasterous handling of COVID-19. We didn't take it seriously and many of us paid the ultimate price, sometimes because of the stupidity of others.

@Stevo_the_gamer: The fact is, in the west , many governments chose to risk the lives of their countrymen by refusing to shut their economies or reopening them prematurely.

They chose finances, money, economy and their personal re-electability over the security of their own people.

That plus some top members of governments that played down the risks, refused to promote the usage of face masks caused the catastrophic outcome.

Additionally there is personal responsibility. How many people in the west refused to wear a face mask, or even attacked those who did?

There is no coincidence that countries that suffer from high levels of government debt to GDP ratios and low interest rates often endured higher incidences of COVID transmissions.

We all recently saw what happened in India, they chose to reopen prematurely.

The often touted balance between the disease and the cure, or the balancing of the economy and the virus is a fallacy.

You can hate China as much as you want, you can fill your life with such hatred, but the fact is when it came to the choice of shutdown or lives, they repeatedly chose lives first.

China is an imperialistic authoritarian regime responsible for 50 million deaths of their own people, an ongoing genocide, and a trade policy that amounts to economic terrorism. Now we know they've been dishonest (shocker) about Covid as well. If someone hates China, it's not because China hasn't given them good reason. I bet the people who hate China the most though are the Chinese folk who have to live with it, who didn't get to run away to the UK like you did.

I think one thing we've learned with this pandemic (and I say this realising we will learn nothing) is that as our societies move towards extreme individualism we are becoming basically a society of sociopaths and highly vulnerable to anything which disrupts our entitlements.

Sure, China did those things around January, after it was discovered outside of China, and traced back to them. They didn't exactly admit it when they knew about it though, did they? They kept it secret for a couple months, and was only "honest" about it after the rest of the world learned about it themselves.

China has NOT been honest about it. I am not sure why you people are so intent to defend them. Their government is certainly, and clearly not a good one.

They Screwed up around the first few months. But afterwards, they handled it really well, so much so we could learn a thing or 2 from them. Us westerners kept screwing up to even today.

Our overall culture (just look at the junk we put in our mouths), makes us completely unfit, for dealing with any health emergency.

@eoten: Ha. The Chinese love China and are highly supportive of the government.

I didn’t run away from China, I had no choice but to be born in the UK. I moved back to China by choice and I’m glad I did. My only regret was to not move sooner.

But keep it up, the hatred must be burning!

How would you know? You ran away from it. And you just said not more than a week or two ago you were living in the UK. It seems your location changes whenever it is most convenient to be somewhere else in a conversation.

They lied, then allegedly told the truth but only after they were caught, and it seems like what they said back then wasn't exactly the truth either, so they're still lying about what they knew and how long they've known it.

According to media, even UK spies find it plausible that it was leaked from a lab, something China still refuses to admit. So over a year later and they're very likely still not telling you the truth.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/uk-spies-believe-the-theory-that-covid-19-escaped-from-a-wuhan-lab-is-plausible-and-are-trying-to-recruit-darknet-sources-as-they-investigate-it-says-report/ar-AAKx8X3

Ever heard of temporary residency?

Plausible doesnt mean likely. And as of now, there are far more likely origins.

Also, I don't care about what any intelligence agency says. I care about what they can prove. So far, they got nothing.