Will God Let Good People Into Heaven? (Poll)

I am aware of that, and yet that fallacy doesn't seem to apply to your interpretation of the word "hate".-Sun_Tzu-

Yes,I looked over it.

Crushmaster

Looked over it how?

Looking something up in a simple dictionary and then nodding your head is not studying something with the actual intention of possibly learning new information.

And, yes, I do care about understanding the Bible. And it says, "You (God) hate all workers of iniquity". Therefore, I believe it. Furthermore, let me ask you this: Do you think God hates evil?

Look at this passage, for example:
(Proverbs 6:16-19)- "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: {17} A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, {18} An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, {19} A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

I could pull out a good number of passages/verses besides this one. It's interesting to note that it says He hates the evil deeds it mentions, and then says He hates "a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Popular doctrine (Hate the sinner, hate the sin in reference to God)? No. Biblical? Yes.

Crushmaster

Um, considering that the entire question is what the Biblical meaning is of the word "hate", you see nothing wrong at all with pointing to instances of the word in English translations in an attempt to show what it means?

The word "hate", as used in the Bible, does not have any emotional sense at all. If someone does me wrong, and I hate him for it and wish bad things upon him, that is not the sense of the word as used in the Bible... at all. It is merely saying that God distances himself from those who do evil and does not associate himself with them. It does not mean that God does not love those people. The idea that God does not love everyone in the world is nigh upon heresy, as such a thing carries with it the obvious implicit assertion that God does not care what happens to those people, just as a human would not care what happened to someone he or she hated.

No offense, but if you truly cared about understanding the Bible, you would not simply shrug off everything you are told that is not in accordance with your preconceived notions about what it says. However perfect the Bible may be, we are not the same.

[QUOTE="dog64"] So, since you've done all that, according to god, you are a good person? If not, then what should is the proper term? Righteous?Crushmaster

Perhaps I'm not being clear. For god to let you into heaven, you cannot be bad, but you have to be something. Good, bad, righteous, ect. If god lets you into heaven, you must be worthy to him; A good person.

No, not exactly.

Think about it in the sense of real numbers. The number -1 could be considered the "opposite" of 1, since it is 1's additive inverse, and because 1 is positive, but -1 is negative. However, there is a point, zero, which is neither positive nor negative. It could be considered a point of neutrality. There is no absolute negative, however, since there is no finite value N such that there exists no value M such that M < N. If you honestly want me to explain this, tell me, and I will.

Consider, then, the case of heat and cold. Cold, as you say, is the absence of heat. Consider absolute zero, which is the complete absence of heat. Absolute zero, then, is like zero, and any temperatures beyond absolute zero would be equivalent to the opposite of heat. Of course, there are no temperatures beyond absolute zero, so it is not logical to define cold as the opposite of heat.

Of course, according to the OED, evil is the opposite of good. Therefore, the analogy is not sound. chessmaster1989

Perhaps I'm not being clear. For god to let you into heaven, you cannot be bad, but you have to be something. Good, bad, righteous, ect. If god lets you into heaven, you must be worthy to him; A good person. dog64

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] I am aware of that, and yet that fallacy doesn't seem to apply to your interpretation of the word "hate".Crushmaster

[QUOTE="dog64"] Perhaps I'm not being clear. For god to let you into heaven, you cannot be bad, but you have to be something. Good, bad, righteous, ect. If god lets you into heaven, you must be worthy to him; A good person. Crushmaster

Ok, so you are righteous. You have to be a righteous person to get into heaven. But I would think a righteous person is also good.

I don't see how there's any reason for me to study this in-depth, as I do not even knowhow to do so. It says "hate" whether you like it or not. Language hsas meaning.
[QUOTE="GabuEx"] Um, considering that the entire question is what the Biblical meaning is of the word "hate", you see nothing wrong at all with pointing to instances of the word in English translations in an attempt to show what it means? GabuEx

The word "hate", as used in the Bible, does not have any emotional sense at all. If someone does me wrong, and I hate him for it and wish bad things upon him, that is not the sense of the word as used in the Bible... at all. It is merely saying that God distances himself from those who do evil and does not associate himself with them. It does not mean that God does not love those people. The idea that God does not love everyone in the world is nigh upon heresy, as such a thing carries with it the obvious implicit assertion that God ought not care what happens to those people, just as a human would not care what happened to someone he or she hated. GabuEx

No offense, but if you truly cared about understanding the Bible, you would not simply shrug off everything you are told that is not in accordance with your preconceived notions about what it says. GabuEx

Ok, so you are righteous. You have to be a righteous person to get into heaven. But I would think a righteous person is also good. dog64

nope, only those who choose the gift he gave us

God cannot love humans, as humans are evil.

Crushmaster

Whoa whoa, there. You're saying god does not love us? Isn't that why he sent his son to die for us, out of love for humans so we may be saved?

[QUOTE="dog64"] Ok, so you are righteous. You have to be a righteous person to get into heaven. But I would think a righteous person is also good. Crushmaster

Whoa whoa, there. You're saying god does not love us? Isn't that why he sent his son to die for us, out of love for humans so we may be saved? dog64

So you are saying everything good I do in the world is actually the work of God? You are saying that womans wallet I returned wasn't actually me doing it it was God doing it through me? BumFluff122

If god lets me into heaven I'm going to try to kill him.

Crushmaster said:

I don't see how there's any reason for me to study this in-depth, as I do not even knowhow to do so. It says "hate" whether you like it or not. Language hsas meaning.

It says "hate" because - for the third time - that is the best English approximation for something that has no exact English counterpart. Just as there is no exact English counterpart for the Greek pair kolasis and timoria - both are simply translated into "punishment" in English - there is no exact English counterpart for the meaning of the word as used in the Bible, either. To simply point to the English and attempt to assert that you can get all of the intended meaning from that is to fundamentally not understand language.

I was doing that because I thought surely you agree thatGod hates evil things, and He used "hate" there in reference to both deeds and people. It would make no sense to say that, and then He only truly hates deeds.Crushmaster

When, exactly, did I say that he "only truly hates deeds"? You are arguing against the argument you want me to be making rather than the argument that I am making.

I am telling you what the word "hate" means as used in the Bible. You seem to be acting as if I am arguing that the word "hate" does not appear in English translations of the Bible.

You give no evidence of this, however, Biblical or otherwise. God cannot love humans, as humans are evil.Crushmaster

John 3:16 ring a bell?

If God did not love humans, he would not care about the idea that we'd go to hell unless he intervened. Hatred, in the modern sense of the word, is fully and utterly incompatible with concern over someone's fate.

I give no evidence of this because I cannot simply point to a website and say "See? I'm right!" and expect it to have any effect. To truly understand this requires that one truly study the use of the words during the time that the Bible was written - something which I would hope you would be open to, given that you say you care about understanding the Bible.

How can I have preconceived notions about what the word hate means?Crushmaster

That you have asserted again and again what the word means in the context of the Bible makes it seem rather evident that you do indeed have preconceived notions about what the word means.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]
No, not exactly.

Think about it in the sense of real numbers. The number -1 could be considered the "opposite" of 1, since it is 1's additive inverse, and because 1 is positive, but -1 is negative. However, there is a point, zero, which is neither positive nor negative. It could be considered a point of neutrality. There is no absolute negative, however, since there is no finite value N such that there exists no value M such that M < N. If you honestly want me to explain this, tell me, and I will.

Consider, then, the case of heat and cold. Cold, as you say, is the absence of heat. Consider absolute zero, which is the complete absence of heat. Absolute zero, then, is like zero, and any temperatures beyond absolute zero would be equivalent to the opposite of heat. Of course, there are no temperatures beyond absolute zero, so it is not logical to define cold as the opposite of heat.

Of course, according to the OED, evil is the opposite of good. Therefore, the analogy is not sound. Crushmaster

My argument states that the analogy you provided earlier that, much as cold is the absence of heat, so is evil the absence of good. According to the OED, evil is the opposite of good. As the real numbers show, an opposite can only exist if there is a possible point of neutrality. Hence, there can be a person who is neither good nor evil. Moreover, your analogy is not accurate, since cold is not the opposite of heat, as I have also shown.

Not doing something right [saving the person about to get shot] is doing something wrong. Furthermore, you ignored my point.Crushmaster

What? You asked me to tell you to show that it meant it was meant to be taken literally.

No, you don't want actual evidence from a non-biased source; you can't. Because, in reality, there reallyARE no un-biased sources.
I know the people who think evolution is true are far from being biased.

Crushmaster

Think of the tribes, people who live in mountains, people who grow up away from society, not knowing religion, not knowing christ, are they screwed just because the message didn't reach them? i don't think so, if it isn't a persons fault for not knowing christ, and god sends those who don't know him to hell, then whos fault is that?

Kind of twisted sort of belief don't you think?

[QUOTE="dog64"] Whoa whoa, there. You're saying god does not love us? Isn't that why he sent his son to die for us, out of love for humans so we may be saved? Crushmaster

Gabu has already answered this, but I'll repeat it. You probably know it by heart:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (KJV)

So either god really does love the world, us, or we have a real contradiction.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"] So you are saying everything good I do in the world is actually the work of God? You are saying that womans wallet I returned wasn't actually me doing it it was God doing it through me? Crushmaster

My argument states that the analogy you provided earlier that, much as cold is the absence of heat, so is evil the absence of good. According to the OED, evil is the opposite of good. As the real numbers show, an opposite can only exist if there is a possible point of neutrality. Hence, there can be a person who is neither good nor evil. Moreover, your analogy is not accurate, since cold is not the opposite of heat, as I have also shown. chessmaster1989

For a person to be neutral, they would have to do no good or evil (and good deeds cannot save; in fact, they're filthy rags in God's eyes). No such person exists.Crushmaster

I have a hard time believing that God would let anyone burn in agonizing hell fire forever and ever if he truly loves them.

Dark_Knight6

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

I have a hard time believing that God would let anyone burn in agonizing hell fire forever and ever if he truly loves them.

th3warr1or

I'm going to get off now, as I've been on about two hours and am quite tired. I'll try to respond to your post, Gabu, tomorrow or Monday.
InChrist,
Crushmaster.

Crushmaster

You're getting off? But it's getting so interesting!

Should we expect blackregiment?

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"] My argument states that the analogy you provided earlier that, much as cold is the absence of heat, so is evil the absence of good. According to the OED, evil is the opposite of good. As the real numbers show, an opposite can only exist if there is a possible point of neutrality. Hence, there can be a person who is neither good nor evil. Moreover, your analogy is not accurate, since cold is not the opposite of heat, as I have also shown. Crushmaster

So, you admit that evil is the opposite of good, and not the absence?

i am in no way religious, athiest! but i always wondered how can the devil be bad if he punishes the bad?damedude123

If a god really exists I would say he should.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"] My argument states that the analogy you provided earlier that, much as cold is the absence of heat, so is evil the absence of good. According to the OED, evil is the opposite of good. As the real numbers show, an opposite can only exist if there is a possible point of neutrality. Hence, there can be a person who is neither good nor evil. Moreover, your analogy is not accurate, since cold is not the opposite of heat, as I have also shown. chessmaster1989

So, you admit that evil is the opposite of good, and not the absence?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="dog64"] Whoa whoa, there. You're saying god does not love us? Isn't that why he sent his son to die for us, out of love for humans so we may be saved? dog64

Gabu has already answered this, but I'll repeat it. You probably know it by heart:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (KJV)

So either god really does love the world, us, or we have a real contradiction.

but in modern times, it is believed a murderer will go to hell where he will be punished by the devil, so wouldnt that mean the devil is doin a good act in punishing a wrong doing?damedude123

Yes if he exists and heaven and hell exist (as places or not), he will because imo, deeds DO matter.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Well, actually:
(Titus 2:11-14)- "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, {12} Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; {13} Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; {14} Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Unless you say humans are good or God loves evil, you cannot say He loves humans.

warbmxjohn

Gabu has already answered this, but I'll repeat it. You probably know it by heart:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (KJV)

So either god really does love the world, us, or we have a real contradiction.

My apologies but where is the contradiction again? I have to go for now.

[QUOTE="damedude123"]but in modern times, it is believed a murderer will go to hell where he will be punished by the devil, so wouldnt that mean the devil is doin a good act in punishing a wrong doing?BumFluff122

To answer your questions, at least according to how I read the Bible: yes, yes, and no. One thing that must be understood about the repentance of sins, though, is that it must be truly sincere. One cannot simply say "okay God, I'm sorry I did that stuff, can I go to heaven now?" - one must truly understand why what he or she did was wrong and to truly wish no longer to do such things.

Really, this is all for our benefit, not God's. God doesn't need anything more. To follow Jesus' instructions in life is to give us the most fulfilling life we can attain here on Earth; the prospect of going to heaven is really just a side issue for me, something appreciated if true, but something which does not provide me any sort of motivation.

none of it exists. thats like saying the giant flying jetfire transformer in the sky will let only his worshippers into his private luxury hotel to live in after they die, whilst everyone else will burn and be in agonizing pain for the rest of their lives. The hole arguement turns me away from religion, its kind of a threatening way of scarying people into converting, beleive what i said or you'll go to hell.

wow i just got way offtopic, but shortanswer: no, because none of it exists

spelling errors are intended btw.Vashn

But when many people especially scientists say there is no God they also mean there is no afterlife. And we all want an afterlife. We all want to live again especially since this life turned out to be pretty bad, pretty short and very unfair for many people. Life is quite unfair for many people and many people had an extremely short life so saying to them there is no God means there is no afterlife and this kind of removes for them any hope that there really is something better after this life and we all want to believe that. People who don't need an afterlife are usually extremely wealthy, extremely satisfied and very successful people who probably live in Canada and really enjoy all the beauty, all the green and all the fruits of this life.

Belief in some kind of God and an afterlife gives people hope and that's a good thing. So I like to believe that some kind of afterlife exists though I could be terribly wrong. What it is I don't know yet but it's better than nothing at all. I like to believe we are more than just decomposing matter in a grave.

My apologies but where is the contradiction again?

stepnkev

The contradiction is that hate, in its modern sense, is incompatible with love. One cannot both hate and love something at the same time. Thus, since it appears to be well established in the Bible that God loves the entire world, that kind of flies into the face of the idea that he hates (in the modern sense of the word) people who do wrong. Thus, if one is to assume that the Bible contains no contradictions, one is required to resolve this apparent issue.

I don't want to get too "armchair psychologist-esque", but I do think that it very likely gives insight into one's character regarding whether they believe that God does not truly hate someone, or whether they believe that God does not truly love everyone.

well repenting has always been thought as a way to be "forgiven" by god. then surely there is a major flaw in gods plan of who can come into heaven. because people could sin all their life, but then repent on their death bed and be accepted into heaven. this goes against the teachings of god where he supports a good life, believing in him, and living life without sin. why should a person who has done nothing but good all their life begin his second life in heaven, as an equal with someone who has sinned all their life? surely thats a flaw and a contradiction into what god wants of us.damedude123

No contradiction at all if you know what it takes to repent. People don't just say I'm sorry...there is no contradiciton at all my friend.

[QUOTE="warbmxjohn"]

[QUOTE="dog64"]

Gabu has already answered this, but I'll repeat it. You probably know it by heart:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (KJV)

So either god really does love the world, us, or we have a real contradiction.

stepnkev

My apologies but where is the contradiction again?

[QUOTE="stepnkev"]

My apologies but where is the contradiction again?

GabuEx

The contradiction is that hate, in its modern sense, is incompatible with love. One cannot both hate and love something at the same time. Thus, since it is well established in the Bible that God loves the entire world, that kind of flies into the face of the idea that he hates (in the modern sense of the word) people who do wrong. Thus, if one is to assume that the Bible contains no contradictions, one is required to resolve this apparent issue.

I don't want to get too "armchair psychologist-esque", but I do think that it very likely gives insight into one's character regarding whether they believe that God does not truly hate someone, or whether they believe that God does not truly love everyone.

[QUOTE="stepnkev"]

[QUOTE="warbmxjohn"]Yeah that will take some time to backtrack that statement. One of the most famous scriptures is contradicted, I wonder how this will mistake will be addressed. Of all the scriptures to contradict.

warbmxjohn

My apologies but where is the contradiction again?

I'll reply later to this and the TC's post. I have to go for now though. I'll reply later - In essence, it was not God talking in that scripture that was posted.

I'm a little bit late here but, this can all be simplified: there is a God and Heaven does exist. There is a Satan and Hell does exist. It does not matter if you're "good" as being good or doing good deeds does not get you a ticket to Heaven. Jesus Christ gave us a gift which is eternal life in Heaven (which would would NOT have unless He died on the cross for ALL of our sins, rising again, and ascending into Heaven) if you choose to believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior and obey the laws (read: Commandments) repent, and having a relationship with God (walking in the path of light and righteousness) I believe these are key to enjoying the eternal Homewith the Creator. Heaven does indeed exist and if it didn't then where else is the soul supposed to go? there are only TWO destinations to spend eternity. So, for all the saints that lived and diedthey're just supposed to wander aimlessly about the planet without going to their maker? uh-uh. God even said that He was going to prepare a place for us!

Hell does exist. I used to think of it as a place where everybody gets to party and enjoy doing bad and wicked things with their buddiesfor all eternity. Uh-Uh. Hell is real, a place of torment, a place you don't get out of simply by "doing time" or getting out early for "good behavior"and Satan exists there as punishment for trying to overthrow God. Satan doesn't run Hell; God does. Satan does God's bidding. Also, God's full wrath is poured out on those who turned their back, did not believe, and chose to exercise their free will by thinking that life isfor them to do as they please. It's real easy to get to Hell: just live a life full of lying, being lustful, killing people, be greedy, and most important of all: do NOT accept or believe in Jesus Christ.Oh, about God being cruel by sending people to an eternal torment? He is NOT cruel and Hedoesn't send you there; you send yourself there. He doesn't want that for you but, YOU, not Him, make that choice. There's the drawback to free will.

As for the skeptics of the Holy Bible I say good luck. Nobody has debunked it not even the so called "experts" the book has been around for many, many years and nobody has been successful in saying "this isn't right" or "this isn't true" think of it this way: BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Every person in the Bible existed. Indeed there were wise kings like King Solomon. What I can't understand is the people who think the earth was some sort of "accident"?! God created all this. The evil in the world? that comes from Satan-the father of all lies. There is evil in this world and I promise you that God didn't create it. I believe demons do exist; I watch CNN or the local news and get plenty of proof for that! does this mean they are damned and can't be saved? no. God gave us a choice (read: free will) we can choose to live as bad or good. I highly recommend two books:

One is called "23 Minutes In Hell" by Bill Wiese (One man's story about what he saw, heard, and felt in that place of torment)

Two is called "90 Minutes In Heaven" by Don Piper with Cecil Murphey (A True Story of death and life)

I have lived a certain way in my life and it hasn't been perfect. But, I can assure of this: from here on out I am not taking a chance on my eternity. Some people will spend weeks, maybe months planning a vacation here on Earth. Why not plan for eternity as well? isn't thatMORE important? as I've read in one of these books: one second after you are dead-it is too late. The place where you spend eternity is just that; for eternity.

I'm a little bit late here but, this can all be simplified: there is a God and Heaven does exist. There is a Satan and Hell does exist. It does not matter if you're "good" as being good or doing good deeds does not get you a ticket to Heaven. Jesus Christ gave us a gift which is eternal life in Heaven (which would would NOT have unless He died on the cross for ALL of our sins, rising again, and ascending into Heaven) if you choose to believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior and obey the laws (read: Commandments) repent, and having a relationship with God (walking in the path of light and righteousness) I believe these are key to enjoying the eternal Homewith the Creator.

Hell does exist. I used to think of it as a place where everybody gets to party and enjoy doing bad and wicked things with their buddiesfor all eternity. Uh-Uh. Hell is real, a place of torment, a place you don't get out of simply by "doing time" or getting out early for "good behavior"and Satan exists there as punishment for trying to overthrow God. Satan doesn't run Hell; God does. Satan does God's bidding. Also, God's full wrath is poured out on those who turned their back, did not believe, and chose to exercise their free will by thinking that life isfor themto do as they please.

As for the skeptics of the Holy Bible I say good luck. Nobody has debunked it not even the so called "experts" the book has been around for many, many years and nobody has been successful in saying "this isn't right" or "this isn't true" think of it this way: BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Every person in the Bible existed. Indeed there were wise kings like King Solomon. What I can't understand is the people who think the earth was some sort of "accident"?! God created all this. The evil in the world? that comes from Satan-the father of all lies. There is evil in this world and I promise you that God didn't create it. I believe demons do exist; I watch CNN or the local news and get plenty of proof for that! does this mean they are damned and can't be saved? no. God gave us a choice (read: free will) we can choose to live as bad or good. I highly recommend two books:

One is called "23 Minutes In Hell" by Bill Wiese (One man's story about what he saw, heard, and felt in that place of torment)

Two is called "90 Minutes In Heaven" by Don Piper with Cecil Murphey (A True Story of death and life)

I have lived a certain way in my life and it hasn't been perfect. But, I can assure of this: from here on out I am not taking a chance on my eternity. Some people will spend weeks, maybe months planning a vacation here on Earth. Why not plan for eternity as well? isn't that more important?

Koi-Neon-X

No offense, but your post seems to contain an awful lot of fear, both imparted and expressed. The Bible makes it very clear that fear and love are incompatible (1 John 4:18 ) and, since God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants us to love both him and each other (1 John 4:7-12, Matthew 7:12), it necessarily follows that we are not to be afraid - something even explicitly stated in Psalm 23:4.

I think too many people pay too much attention to the whole issue of one's eternal destiny and not nearly enough attention to the ultimate reason for why Jesus instructed us to do what he did. God doesn't need anything more; thus, it makes sense that it's ultimately for us. One ought not to follow Jesus' words out of fear of hell or simply because God said so, but rather because they recognize the immense value and benefit in doing so both to oneself and to everyone with whom one comes into contact. I think there is a reason why the people who find themselves in Jesus' favor in Matthew 25:31-46 are surprised at this fact: they lived a life not out of concern for their own eternal destinies, but out of love and compassion for everyone on Earth.

[QUOTE="Koi-Neon-X"]

I'm a little bit late here but, this can all be simplified: there is a God and Heaven does exist. There is a Satan and Hell does exist. It does not matter if you're "good" as being good or doing good deeds does not get you a ticket to Heaven. Jesus Christ gave us a gift which is eternal life in Heaven (which would would NOT have unless He died on the cross for ALL of our sins, rising again, and ascending into Heaven) if you choose to believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior and obey the laws (read: Commandments) repent, and having a relationship with God (walking in the path of light and righteousness) I believe these are key to enjoying the eternal Homewith the Creator.

Hell does exist. I used to think of it as a place where everybody gets to party and enjoy doing bad and wicked things with their buddiesfor all eternity. Uh-Uh. Hell is real, a place of torment, a place you don't get out of simply by "doing time" or getting out early for "good behavior"and Satan exists there as punishment for trying to overthrow God. Satan doesn't run Hell; God does. Satan does God's bidding. Also, God's full wrath is poured out on those who turned their back, did not believe, and chose to exercise their free will by thinking that life isfor themto do as they please.

As for the skeptics of the Holy Bible I say good luck. Nobody has debunked it not even the so called "experts" the book has been around for many, many years and nobody has been successful in saying "this isn't right" or "this isn't true" think of it this way: BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Every person in the Bible existed. Indeed there were wise kings like King Solomon. What I can't understand is the people who think the earth was some sort of "accident"?! God created all this. The evil in the world? that comes from Satan-the father of all lies. There is evil in this world and I promise you that God didn't create it. I believe demons do exist; I watch CNN or the local news and get plenty of proof for that! does this mean they are damned and can't be saved? no. God gave us a choice (read: free will) we can choose to live as bad or good. I highly recommend two books:

One is called "23 Minutes In Hell" by Bill Wiese (One man's story about what he saw, heard, and felt in that place of torment)

Two is called "90 Minutes In Heaven" by Don Piper with Cecil Murphey (A True Story of death and life)

I have lived a certain way in my life and it hasn't been perfect. But, I can assure of this: from here on out I am not taking a chance on my eternity. Some people will spend weeks, maybe months planning a vacation here on Earth. Why not plan for eternity as well? isn't that more important?

GabuEx

No offense, but your post seems to contain an awful lot of fear, both imparted and expressed. The Bible makes it very clear that fear and love are incompatible (1 John 4:18 ) and, since God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants us to love both him and each other (1 John 4:7-12, Matthew 7:12), it necessarily follows that we are not to be afraid - something even explicitly stated in Psalm 23:4.

I think too many people pay too much attention to the whole issue of one's eternal destiny and not nearly enough attention to the ultimate reason for why Jesus instructed us to do what he did. God doesn't need anything more; thus, it makes sense that it's ultimately for us. One ought not to follow Jesus' words out of fear of hell or simply because God said so, but rather because they recognize the immense value and benefit in doing so both to oneself and to everyone with whom one comes into contact. I think there is a reason why the people who find themselves in Jesus' favor in Matthew 25:31-46 are surprised at this fact: they lived a life not out of concern for their own eternal destinies, but out of love and compassion for everyone on Earth.

I'm a little bit late here but, this can all be simplified: there is a God and Heaven does exist. There is a Satan and Hell does exist. It does not matter if you're "good" as being good or doing good deeds does not get you a ticket to Heaven. Jesus Christ gave us a gift which is eternal life in Heaven (which would would NOT have unless He died on the cross for ALL of our sins, rising again, and ascending into Heaven) if you choose to believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior and obey the laws (read: Commandments) repent, and having a relationship with God (walking in the path of light and righteousness) I believe these are key to enjoying the eternal Homewith the Creator. Heaven does indeed exist and if it didn't then where else is the soul supposed to go? there are only TWO destinations to spend eternity. So, for all the saints that lived and diedthey're just supposed to wander aimlessly about the planet without going to their maker? uh-uh. God even said that He was going to prepare a place for us!

Hell does exist. I used to think of it as a place where everybody gets to party and enjoy doing bad and wicked things with their buddiesfor all eternity. Uh-Uh. Hell is real, a place of torment, a place you don't get out of simply by "doing time" or getting out early for "good behavior"and Satan exists there as punishment for trying to overthrow God. Satan doesn't run Hell; God does. Satan does God's bidding. Also, God's full wrath is poured out on those who turned their back, did not believe, and chose to exercise their free will by thinking that life isfor them to do as they please. It's real easy to get to Hell: just live a life full of lying, being lustful, killing people, be greedy, and most important of all: do NOT accept or believe in Jesus Christ.Oh, about God being cruel by sending people to an eternal torment? He is NOT cruel and Hedoesn't send you there; you send yourself there. He doesn't want that for you but, YOU, not Him, make that choice. There's the drawback to free will.

As for the skeptics of the Holy Bible I say good luck. Nobody has debunked it not even the so called "experts" the book has been around for many, many years and nobody has been successful in saying "this isn't right" or "this isn't true" think of it this way: BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Every person in the Bible existed. Indeed there were wise kings like King Solomon. What I can't understand is the people who think the earth was some sort of "accident"?! God created all this. The evil in the world? that comes from Satan-the father of all lies. There is evil in this world and I promise you that God didn't create it. I believe demons do exist; I watch CNN or the local news and get plenty of proof for that! does this mean they are damned and can't be saved? no. God gave us a choice (read: free will) we can choose to live as bad or good. I highly recommend two books:

One is called "23 Minutes In Hell" by Bill Wiese (One man's story about what he saw, heard, and felt in that place of torment)

Two is called "90 Minutes In Heaven" by Don Piper with Cecil Murphey (A True Story of death and life)

I have lived a certain way in my life and it hasn't been perfect. But, I can assure of this: from here on out I am not taking a chance on my eternity. Some people will spend weeks, maybe months planning a vacation here on Earth. Why not plan for eternity as well? isn't thatMORE important? as I've read in one of these books: one second after you are dead-it is too late. The place where you spend eternity is just that; for eternity.

Koi-Neon-X