Is the USA healthcare system a joke compared to other countries

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Private loans would be cheaper, through competition...federal loans are the reason why the cost is so high. and in a socialist country, the people who work for their money get screwed over with the higher taxes....it's easy for you to sit here and say "higher taxes, woot woot!", when you haven't worked in a real job your whole life. surrealnumber5

You're basically family!

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Um, if an Indian immigrant is a legal one, then chances are he has money and/or education because the immigration process is expensive. I do have to agree with the second part, though. People really need to major in stuff that will give them a career, THEN, they can major in w/e they want. Ace6301

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] I guess this is why Indian immigrants can come to America with no college education and own several gas station and earn a good living, while Americans born here are scraping by with their philosophy/art history degree. kingkong0124

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Um, if an Indian immigrant is a legal one, then chances are he has money and/or education because the immigration process is expensive. I do have to agree with the second part, though. People really need to major in stuff that will give them a career, THEN, they can major in w/e they want. l4dak47

Indeed. Indians, like Asians, tend to have a higher hard working mentality. In Asian counties, receiving a poor grade is dishonorable and you are almost meant to feel ashamed.

With the "self-esteem" movement in America, no one is a loser! Statistically the "self-esteem" movement hasn't improved much. Rather since it was implemented we have been dropping in educational ranks. Though, causation does not always equal correlation, so maybe it didn't harm us much.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Um, if an Indian immigrant is a legal one, then chances are he has money and/or education because the immigration process is expensive. I do have to agree with the second part, though. People really need to major in stuff that will give them a career, THEN, they can major in w/e they want. TopTierHustler

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Then we have the problem of the poor/middle class not being able to afford them...

Omni-Wrath

How would it be a short term problem, unless the government were to intervene?

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] don't you think it's sad when, to put it bluntly, dumb Indian immigrants are earning more than people who were born here and grew up with the benefits of the American education system? I think we have much more potential than that.

kingkong0124

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] don't you think it's sad when, to put it bluntly, dumb Indian immigrants are earning more than people who were born here and grew up with the benefits of the American education system? I think we have much more potential than that.

Omni-Wrath

Indeed. Indians, like Asians, tend to have a higher hard working mentality. In Asian counties, receiving a poor grade is dishonorable and you are almost meant to feel ashamed.

With the "self-esteem" movement in America, no one is a loser! Statistically the "self-esteem" movement hasn't improved much. Rather since it was implemented we have been dropping in educational ranks. Though, causation does not always equal correlation, so maybe it didn't harm us much.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] don't you think it's sad when, to put it bluntly, dumb Indian immigrants are earning more than people who were born here and grew up with the benefits of the American education system? I think we have much more potential than that. kingkong0124

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] don't you think it's sad when, to put it bluntly, dumb Indian immigrants are earning more than people who were born here and grew up with the benefits of the American education system? I think we have much more potential than that.

kingkong0124

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

If you start a business, odds are that your company will fail. Data from the U.S. Small Business Administration shows that regardless of the year when they are founded, the majority of start-ups go out of business within five years, and two-thirds are no longer operating ten years after being formed.

More than often, small business fail. Just because you have met a few lucky Indians, does not mean most of them have successful businesses.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]In order to start a business you have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

TopTierHustler

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]In order to start a business you have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

Omni-Wrath

If you start a business, odds are that your company will fail. Data from the U.S. Small Business Administration shows that regardless of the year when they are founded, the majority of start-ups go out of business within five years, and two-thirds are no longer operating ten years after being formed.

More than often, small business fail. Just because you have met a few lucky Indians, does not mean most of them have successful businesses.

[QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Alot of it is also cultural. kingkong0124

Indeed. Indians, like Asians, tend to have a higher hard working mentality. In Asian counties, receiving a poor grade is dishonorable and you are almost meant to feel ashamed.

With the "self-esteem" movement in America, no one is a loser! Statistically the "self-esteem" movement hasn't improved much. Rather since it was implemented we have been dropping in educational ranks. Though, causation does not always equal correlation, so maybe it didn't harm us much.

I want more than just anecdotal experience.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]In order to start a business you have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Or at least good credit.

18 year olds right out of HS will never see that kind of money without education, and credit like that takes half a decade to earn.

TopTierHustler

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] If it takes half a decade to earn, why can't they do it if Sanjay from your local 7/11 can? It's all about putting in work. kingkong0124

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

[QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] If it takes half a decade to earn, why can't they do it if Sanjay from your local 7/11 can? It's all about putting in work. kingkong0124

If you start a business, odds are that your company will fail. Data from the U.S. Small Business Administration shows that regardless of the year when they are founded, the majority of start-ups go out of business within five years, and two-thirds are no longer operating ten years after being formed.

More than often, small business fail. Just because you have met a few lucky Indians, does not mean most of them have successful businesses.

A vast amount of them have degrees as they?re more educated (see the Wikipedia entry on Indian Americans).
Their culture encourages high savings rates.
They also work many more hours than the average American.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

Indeed. Indians, like Asians, tend to have a higher hard working mentality. In Asian counties, receiving a poor grade is dishonorable and you are almost meant to feel ashamed.

With the "self-esteem" movement in America, no one is a loser! Statistically the "self-esteem" movement hasn't improved much. Rather since it was implemented we have been dropping in educational ranks. Though, causation does not always equal correlation, so maybe it didn't harm us much.

Omni-Wrath

I want more than just anecdotal experience.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

If you start a business, odds are that your company will fail. Data from the U.S. Small Business Administration shows that regardless of the year when they are founded, the majority of start-ups go out of business within five years, and two-thirds are no longer operating ten years after being formed.

More than often, small business fail. Just because you have met a few lucky Indians, does not mean most of them have successful businesses.

Omni-Wrath

A vast amount of them have degrees as they?re more educated (see the Wikipedia entry on Indian Americans).
Their culture encourages high savings rates.
They also work many more hours than the average American.

[QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Look at the average salaries of Indian American immigrants..kingkong0124

A vast amount of them have degrees as they?re more educated (see the Wikipedia entry on Indian Americans).
Their culture encourages high savings rates.
They also work many more hours than the average American.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] If it takes half a decade to earn, why can't they do it if Sanjay from your local 7/11 can? It's all about putting in work. kingkong0124

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

Even under ideal scenerios, which conservatives seem to constantly assume the middle class and more notably the poor are under, working 5-10 years in the work force would put the person way behind others who had the advantage of money. They'd be going at a later age, when they get out they would have less experience in the industry than others of the same age.

that's ideal though. In reality people are going to run into financial troubles that will damage their credit, people often have difficulty saving in bad economic times or even when things like children, marriage, deaths, illnesses which are all more likely to happen as we age are going to be more of a burden.

On top of this, as people get older, they gain responsibilities and don't have the same time to put into school as when they were younger.

I really don't understand why conservatives would wish worse lives on others.

[QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] African immigrants, from what I've personally seen, do much better than many African Americans... Also, you can find this same hard working mentality in immigrants from Latin countries, like Mexico. It's not all cultural...kingkong0124

I want more than just anecdotal experience.

The top from there are mostly Asians and people that come from First World countries. Latinos are at the bottem with the Africans.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

A vast amount of them have degrees as they?re more educated (see the Wikipedia entry on Indian Americans).
Their culture encourages high savings rates.
They also work many more hours than the average American.

Ace6301

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] If it takes half a decade to earn, why can't they do it if Sanjay from your local 7/11 can? It's all about putting in work. surrealnumber5

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]nobodiy can earn 100,000s of thosands on a HS education in dispensable income. That's just a fact.

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

TopTierHustler

Even under ideal scenerios, which conservatives seem to constantly assume the middle class and more notably the poor are under, working 5-10 years in the work force would put the person way behind others who had the advantage of money. They'd be going at a later age, when they get out they would have less experience in the industry than others of the same age.

that's ideal though. In reality people are going to run into financial troubles that will damage their credit, people often have difficulty saving in bad economic times or even when things like children, marriage, deaths, illnesses which are all more likely to happen as we age are going to be more of a burden.

On top of this, as people get older, they gain responsibilities and don't have the same time to put into school as when they were younger.

I really don't understand why conservatives would wish worse lives on others.

To add to that, we are fragile BIOLOGICAL creatures. When you least expect it, you can easily have a medical horror and be riddled with $100k+ debt to mess up the rest of your life. And IF YOU DIE, it will go to your precious loved ones.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Omni-Wrath"]

I want more than just anecdotal experience.

Omni-Wrath

The top from there are mostly Asians and people that come from First World countries. Latinos are at the bottem with the Africans.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]nobodiy can earn 100,000s of thosands on a HS education in dispensable income. That's just a fact.

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

TopTierHustler

Even under ideal scenerios, which conservatives seem to constantly assume the middle class and more notably the poor are under, working 5-10 years in the work force would put the person way behind others who had the advantage of money. They'd be going at a later age, when they get out they would have less experience in the industry than others of the same age.

that's ideal though. In reality people are going to run into financial troubles that will damage their credit, people often have difficulty saving in bad economic times or even when things like children, marriage, deaths, illnesses which are all more likely to happen as we age are going to be more of a burden.

On top of this, as people get older, they gain responsibilities and don't have the same time to put into school as when they were younger.

I really don't understand why conservatives would wish worse lives on others.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]nobodiy can earn 100,000s of thosands on a HS education in dispensable income. That's just a fact.

As is getting a loan that size with a crappy job.

TopTierHustler

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] that is not true, you just cant do it in a "traditional career" you can google a list of millionaires billion ares who never got a college degree, and you can find those people in lower income brackets as well. the one thing you will find is that these success cases tend to be entrepreneurs surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] if Sanjay can do it, you can too!kingkong0124

Even under ideal scenerios, which conservatives seem to constantly assume the middle class and more notably the poor are under, working 5-10 years in the work force would put the person way behind others who had the advantage of money. They'd be going at a later age, when they get out they would have less experience in the industry than others of the same age.

that's ideal though. In reality people are going to run into financial troubles that will damage their credit, people often have difficulty saving in bad economic times or even when things like children, marriage, deaths, illnesses which are all more likely to happen as we age are going to be more of a burden.

On top of this, as people get older, they gain responsibilities and don't have the same time to put into school as when they were younger.

I really don't understand why conservatives would wish worse lives on others.

Indians doing well doesn't negate what I've said in putting people years behind where they could be.

It's also going to lead to a less educated workforce with less people going to college, and that means a weaker economy.

Everybody loses.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Just like to point out that business and entrepreneurships is risky and in 80% of the cases people end up failing in business.

TopTierHustler

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] im nearing 30 and have had a few, none were wildly successful but they were all well worth doing(40-80k/yr equivalent), based on your stat i am going to be a millionaire soon, that's whats up.surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Well, that's good.

TopTierHustler

Thought the majority liked what Obamacare did but didn't like the individual mandate.Ace6301

At any rate it's generally viewed here as a joke unless you're filthy rich.Ace6301

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] ever heard about the costs of med school? 100k is a lot of money, but it's not what doctors SHOULD be making. kingkong0124

See, this is the problem. You clearly know nothing about what happens outside the US, so you apply the same general principles, because in your mind the rest of the world operates in the same way as the US.

Not sure about other Europeans countries, but in my country public medschool is far better than private. No respectable doctor over here comes from private schools.

wow this thread makes my brain hurt

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="kraychik"]

American health care is superior to all other health care. Costs are something else, of course, but that's a function of government control and a lack of a truly free market.

kraychik

On average we pay double per capita then any other country with worse access and worse quality care. Look at WHO rankings we are 37th in healthcare, because of the lack of government intervention as shown by more regulated countries which all have better, cheaper and more acces to care.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Countries with universal health care more often than not have free education. Where's the cost of med school now?nunovlopes

See, this is the problem. You clearly know nothing about what happens outside the US, so you apply the same general principles, because in your mind the rest of the world operates in the same way as the US.

Not sure about other Europeans countries, but in my country public medschool is far better than private. No respectable doctor over here comes from private schools.

rather the opposite,the UK's is easily a joke.

Although I cant comment on the situation of Obama care.

I'm an American and I think our health care system is broken, I don't think it's the worst as there are some countries with even more terrible ones, but our current health care system does not help people, it just hurts them, I think we should do more right for our fellow Americans.

I personally know several people who have been left out by this system, I know a woman who's son needs a kideny transplant and they have no insurance so can't get one, nor can she even get insurance if she wanted to because of a pre-existing condition. She has selling things to try and get the money to help him, I give her $200 every 2 weeks from my pay check to try and help her. I can't stand to see someone die like that, that's not what God wants, God wants us to help people.

I also know a woman who lost her child due to not being able to get health care for it. As a pro life I am sickened by the thought of people turning her away, especially people who call themeselves "christians" but are willing to deny a mother and child health care. I'm pro life both before AND after, I'm not a hypocrite. People always talk about freedom, but how are we "free" if we have to worry about things like this?

That's not freedom to me, that's just another form of slavery. We live in a very wealthy nation, people should not have to worry abotu wether or not they can get help without going into debt, they shouldn't have to make the decision to live and suffer until it get's "just bad enough" unitl it becomes an emergency condition for the hospital to finally treat them. That's not living, that's just scraping by.

I am fortunate enough to get health care becasue in my state college students get reduced costs and put on a state plan. However I am one of the few who has not forgot about others, I think a lot of people against healt care reforms are selfish and don't live in reality or haven't talked to real people. Get outside of your suburb, go see the real world. They come across as being naive.

And so called "Christians" that are against it make me mad, they clearly missed the message of Jesus COMPLETELY.

It's funny how people criticize countries with government health by dwelling on these "wait times" I guess one things for sure, the 50 million uninsured don't have to worry about waiting for anything.thebest31406

I don't know much about the so called wait times, I think people over exaggerate them. I'm sure in emergency conditions they treat you right away. Ninja Hippo mentioned something about his sisteer going to a hospital and not having to worry about anything. I'm not entirely sure, but if I recall I think he is from the UK.

So much for wait times huh? She got treated immeditately it sounds.

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]It's funny how people criticize countries with government health by dwelling on these "wait times" I guess one things for sure, the 50 million uninsured don't have to worry about waiting for anything.ShadowMoses900

I don't know much about the so called wait times, I think people over exaggerate them. I'm sure in emergency conditions they treat you right away. Ninja Hippo mentioned something about his sisteer going to a hospital and not having to worry about anything. I'm not entirely sure, but if I recall I think he is from the UK.

So much for wait times huh? She got treated immeditately it sounds.

I live in Portugal, we're certainly far from having the best healthcare. I few years ago my mother was diagnosed cancer. If I remember correctly she was given surgery less than 1 month after diagnosis. Maybe a couple of weeks, not sure. For free. So yeah I think it's pretty good.

On the other hand, if you're in the diagnosis phase, you can have long wait times, for example, waiting for exams, etc. Once it gets diagnosed and if it's something critical, you'll be taken care of very quickly, but the part before that can be a problem.

I have healthcare insurance so I use a mix of private and public healthcare. I'll use the private system for exams, doctor appointments, etc., to get them fast. But if I have something very serious, that may require prolonged treatment, I'll switch to the public system.

Thought the majority liked what Obamacare did but didn't like the individual mandate. At any rate it's generally viewed here as a joke unless you're filthy rich.Ace6301

rather the opposite,the UK's is easily a joke.

Although I cant comment on the situation of Obama care.

sexyweapons