If you dont live in the USA i was wonder what your opinion is on this. recently obamacare was passed that require all americans to buy insurance from a private company or have a hefty tax levied on them. The debate is raging here in America and it seems the majority of people dont want Obamacare. I was wondering what other people from other countries thought about this situation. Please be frank and thank you for your time.
Is the USA healthcare system a joke compared to other countries
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Thought the majority liked what Obamacare did but didn't like the individual mandate. At any rate it's generally viewed here as a joke unless you're filthy rich.kraychikOr poor or old via Medicare or Medicaid or gainfully employed with a large company with good group benefits.
[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] how would it do any worse of a job than the current system? the current system that spends more than all of the tax revenues the government gets. i hate getting into specifics because it takes way too long, but the "public" spending on healthcare over a trillion dollars in 2011, that is ~3300 dollars per person in the united states. i dont know what your care costs were last year but mine were well under 3300 dollars, and the government did not pay a cent of my bills, so in a free market assuming medical costs stay constant(worst assumption ever) i would be better able to care for my self in the future if i had that money to save for my own well being. but no, we debt spend devalue everyone's money hurting the poor the most, increasing their reliance on these programs that got them "trapped" in the system to begin with. at what point is enough enough, how many failed attempts at doing good and only creating bad are you willing to accept as good before you decide to look at the outcomes and not motive. you are advocating a system that has devalued it self 40% over the last 6 years according to the federal reserve. if you dont have a solid base no bad or possibly(but unlikely) good artificial construct can stand. if your economy is based purely on state favors, including what you advocate in the care industry, its going to fail. i dont know if the EU or the US will fail first because of their stupidity, but they are both great case studies for my stance. surrealnumber5Well right now people in the ER cannot be turned away they have to be stabilized at least due to regulations. There is an easy example to show how a free market would be worse, people would be turned away from care if they cannot prove the ability to pay. We can also see how the lack of access to care leads to many preventable deaths. "The United States placed last among 16 high-income, industrialized nations when it comes to deaths that could potentially have been prevented by timely access to effective health care" Yeah you would better be able to care for yourself, until you get cancer, get in a car crash... or any other type of need for health care that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix. (many people would never be able to save enough for many treatments) spreading the risk of costs is something you do every day from car insurance to home insurance. Then random FED, people being trapped (in medicare?) stuff that is irrelevant. before there were guns in "healthcare" there were thriving charities that aided the poor, but when you point a gun at people for a cause, most average people stop donating to that cause. not to mention the recent trend of government killing charities be it direct as bloomburg did with private food banks for the poor, or the obama administration mandating services that run against the charities goals (requiring religious institutions to go against their belief, when their belief imposed on no one). the health care system in the US was far better before the government got into it. notice i said the care system and not the tech. doctors were available and because having a private firm was an easy option there was high competition and low costs. in 1954 95 percent of people had medical insurance in 1965 the Medicare program was born by 1970 people were crying about increasing healthcare costs, 80 reforms and an exponential increase in health care costs we are here. not only can it be argued that this program alone has bankrupted america, but it does not even provide the service it was sold as. everyone dies, i can make a chart showing expected hethcare costs over time, and to keep even one person alive forever would cost infinite money ever increasing its rate of growth. the economy and health of the dollar are in no way irrelevant for your idea of infinite spending in the misguided attempt at removing uncertainty, if you want to attempt the impossible with impossibly large mounds of cash. just accept: people die you cant stop it sometimes it is tragic and unpredictable that does not give you the right to try to play god and remove an inevitability of life(risk and the unknown)
Hey look a Ron Paul talking point.
You really think that Charity is enough to cover trillions of dollars in health care costs? Wow, got any proof of that?
Explanation for the 1954 figure (got a source for that because i can't find one?) is look government intervention
"Finally, in 1954, the IRS decided that workers would not be taxed on the contributions that their employers made to their health insurance plans.[16] This preferential tax treatment for ?fringe? benefits gave businesses an incentive to offer health insurance to their employees."
Although that figure of 95% does not seem realistic due to
"By the 1960s, the system of private health insurance in the United States was well established. In 1958, nearly 75 percent of Americans had some form of private health insurance coverage"
20% of people lose their coverage in just 4 years? Also this is just some form of health insurance not indicating how useful or good the insurance actually was.
Healthcare costs have exploded more in the U.S then other countries that are more regulated like European countries.. showing that more regulations does not necessarily lead to increases in costs.
So why is the comparatively free healthcare market of the U.S showing such increased costs compared to the heavily regulated countries?
before there were guns in "healthcare" there were thriving charities that aided the poor, but when you point a gun at people for a cause, most average people stop donating to that cause. not to mention the recent trend of government killing charities be it direct as bloomburg did with private food banks for the poor, or the obama administration mandating services that run against the charities goals (requiring religious institutions to go against their belief, when their belief imposed on no one). the health care system in the US was far better before the government got into it. notice i said the care system and not the tech. doctors were available and because having a private firm was an easy option there was high competition and low costs. in 1954 95 percent of people had medical insurance in 1965 the Medicare program was born by 1970 people were crying about increasing healthcare costs, 80 reforms and an exponential increase in health care costs we are here. not only can it be argued that this program alone has bankrupted america, but it does not even provide the service it was sold as. everyone dies, i can make a chart showing expected hethcare costs over time, and to keep even one person alive forever would cost infinite money ever increasing its rate of growth. the economy and health of the dollar are in no way irrelevant for your idea of infinite spending in the misguided attempt at removing uncertainty, if you want to attempt the impossible with impossibly large mounds of cash. just accept: people die you cant stop it sometimes it is tragic and unpredictable that does not give you the right to try to play god and remove an inevitability of life(risk and the unknown)[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Person0"] Well right now people in the ER cannot be turned away they have to be stabilized at least due to regulations. There is an easy example to show how a free market would be worse, people would be turned away from care if they cannot prove the ability to pay. We can also see how the lack of access to care leads to many preventable deaths. "The United States placed last among 16 high-income, industrialized nations when it comes to deaths that could potentially have been prevented by timely access to effective health care" Yeah you would better be able to care for yourself, until you get cancer, get in a car crash... or any other type of need for health care that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix. (many people would never be able to save enough for many treatments) spreading the risk of costs is something you do every day from car insurance to home insurance. Then random FED, people being trapped (in medicare?) stuff that is irrelevant.Person0
Hey look a Ron Paul talking point.
You really think that Charity is enough to cover trillions of dollars in health care costs? Wow, got any proof of that?
Explanation for the 1954 figure (got a source for that because i can't find one?) is look government intervention
"Finally, in 1954, the IRS decided that workers would not be taxed on the contributions that their employers made to their health insurance plans.[16] This preferential tax treatment for ?fringe? benefits gave businesses an incentive to offer health insurance to their employees."
Although that figure of 95% does not seem realistic due to
"By the 1960s, the system of private health insurance in the United States was well established. In 1958, nearly 75 percent of Americans had some form of private health insurance coverage"
20% of people lose their coverage in just 4 years? Also this is just some form of health insurance not indicating how useful or good the insurance actually was.
Healthcare costs have exploded more in the U.S then other countries that are more regulated like European countries.. showing that more regulations does not necessarily lead to increases in costs.
So why is the comparatively free healthcare market of the U.S showing such increased costs compared to the heavily regulated countries?
wow great job, he should just stop, he is well out of his league. Great information and not just BS talking points. OH YEAH
Log in to comment