If you belief in evolution and are atheist let me ask you a question ?

[QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
Abdullahcoolyo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

[QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
Abdullahcoolyo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
-The-Freeman-

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

More like 200 episodes, and it's still growing. It's rivaling DBZ's collection :Pjoezer3003

im not a atheist but i still believe in evolution,it makes alot more sense than the big bang.mlbslugger86

   Evolution and the big bang are two different theories that can coexist.. That being Said I do believe in the big bang.. But what I don't understand though,  is the religious types that some how claim or feel threatened that it means there is no god...  When it doesn't it merely, tries to explain how our universe came to be in the state it is today, for all we know god could have caused it.....  There have been no ways on how to describe what was before the universe if there was something.. After this theory its a unknown.. This is why I respect science far more then Religion.. Religion tries to presume in its arrogance that it knows about some of the great mysteries in a simple paragraph or few pages of text about things such as the afterlife when no one has actually been there and come back to tell about it, yet we have all these details on the after life....     Thats why in my opinion god is the product of people trying to explain mysteries they have absolutly no idea what so ever about...   There might very well be a god, but that doesn't make it any better by skewing your views and opinions through such a guess that could in the end be disproven or changed merely...  A great example is Galileo, he was nearly put to death when he told people that the earth goes around the sun... Why? Because it conflicted with peoples religion which was a guess to try to explain how the solar system works, while he actually discovered it and proved it to be fact that his observation was correct...

   The bible shouldn't even be brought into this either when as a whole there is no clear and concise interpretation in it, only many differeing views on just about every text almost...

  Science is observations that form theories and sometimes laws that can and will bend as more discoveries are made and do not try to explain things they have absolutly no evidence or research on yet...  Religion on the other hand is rigid and rarely changes some claims that are utterly rediciulous at times  with absolutly no research into if its true or not, while sometimes snuffing out the true people who make such research and discoveries that says otherwise.

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

[QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
Abdullahcoolyo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

  Scientists earlier then that knew there was matter...  As I said before we should not be talking about such things because we are all ignorant on the subject and do not have the true mind capacity, evidence as well as other things to even start this argument.

[QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
Abdullahcoolyo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]im not a atheist but i still believe in evolution,it makes alot more sense than the big bang.sSubZerOo

   Evolution and the big bang are two different theories that can coexist.. That being Said I do believe in the big bang.. But what I don't understand though,  is the religious types that some how claim or feel threatened that it means there is no god...  When it doesn't it merely, tries to explain how our universe came to be in the state it is today, for all we know god could have caused it.....  There have been no ways on how to describe what was before the universe if there was something.. After this theory its a unknown.. This is why I respect science far more then Religion.. Religion tries to presume in its arrogance that it knows about some of the great mysteries in a simple paragraph or few pages of text about things such as the afterlife when no one has actually been there and come back to tell about it, yet we have all these details on the after life....     Thats why in my opinion god is the product of people trying to explain mysteries they have absolutly no idea what so ever about...   There might very well be a god, but that doesn't make it any better by skewing your views and opinions through such a guess that could in the end be disproven or changed merely...  A great example is Galileo, he was nearly put to death when he told people that the earth goes around the sun... Why? Because it conflicted with peoples religion which was a guess to try to explain how the solar system works, while he actually discovered it and proved it to be fact that his observation was correct...

   The bible shouldn't even be brought into this either when as a whole there is no clear and concise interpretation in it, only many differeing views on just about every text almost...

  Science is observations that form theories and sometimes laws that can and will bend as more discoveries are made and do not try to explain things they have absolutly no evidence or research on yet...  Religion on the other hand is rigid and rarely changes some claims that are utterly rediciulous at times  with absolutly no research into if its true or not, while sometimes snuffing out the true people who make such research and discoveries that says otherwise.

[QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
TSCombo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="joezer3003"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
sSubZerOo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Agnostic with a Physics background

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"][QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
joezer3003

Scientists earlier then that knew there was matter... As I said before we should not be talking about such things because we are all ignorant on the subject and do not have the true mind capacity, evidence as well as other things to even start this argument.

I got this from wikipedia so youd believe me
Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the literal word of God (Arabic Allah) as revealed to  Muhammed, over a period of twenty-three years by the angel Gabriel and regard it as God's final revelation to mankind.
Abdullahcoolyo

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
sSubZerOo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

[QUOTE="Abdullahcoolyo"]
I got this from wikipedia so youd believe me
Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the literal word of God (Arabic Allah) as revealed toMuhammed, over a period of twenty-three years by the angel Gabriel and regard it as God's final revelation to mankind.
joezer3003

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
TSCombo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

  Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then...  Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self...  To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

    How can you argue with such logic though? You are using RELIGION, something that FAITHm belief in something that can not be proven or given evidence too to try to explain a estimate... This is like argueing over a math problem, where one guy guesses and believes he is right with sincerity but has taken very little amounts of time to even try to research it and then realizing all the logical holes and mystery it has, but yet still stands by it.. Guessing can be just as wrong as "I don't KNow" Infact guessing is even worse specially on this scale because it illustrates a arrogance that should be frowned down upon.. 

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
sSubZerOo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

  Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then...  Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self...  To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
TSCombo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual, not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

Can you teach us on this then, what is god... If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created? Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation? Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...

The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time.. Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject... This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is.. Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things? Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...

As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ? What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then... Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self... To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
TSCombo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

  Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then...  Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self...  To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

    Do cease to presume a persons motives such as longing for purpose in ones life.. Far as I see every one seems to make that decision, even from a religious perspective that god gave us free will, making it utterly contridictory and a paradox if purpose which is a part of fate is involved..   Also you must define what you mean by profit, profit could very well mean anything to every person..  The one thing that never goes to waste though is the seeking of knowledge.. People now adays specially in Christainity in the US, seem to try to press certain things uch as creationism on other people when infact they completely ignore some of the teachings of the bible.. Such as not judging, helping the poverty striken, treating fellow man peacefully and with respect.. None of these things usualy ever happen.. Top that off oen can not use a argument in the Bible when there is not a clear and concise understanding of it.. There are millions on the planet who interpret the Bible   differently from the next person..  The majority can't even decide whether things such as Noah's ark was a exageration, metaphore, actualility...  So for instance if you used a argument of the bible your interpretation could be utterly different from actuality making it a opinion.

   In all philosophical arguments the wieght of the argument matters, not the wieght of the book, person or people who it is coming from..  IF this was true, then religion for instance as well as other things would only be controled by the most powerful people regardless if it went against actuality, which has happened through out history.

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
sSubZerOo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

  Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then...  Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self...  To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

    Do cease to presume a persons motives such as longing for purpose in ones life.. Far as I see every one seems to make that decision, even from a religious perspective that god gave us free will, making it utterly contridictory and a paradox if purpose which is a part of fate is involved..   Also you must define what you mean by profit, profit could very well mean anything to every person..  The one thing that never goes to waste though is the seeking of knowledge.. People now adays specially in Christainity in the US, seem to try to press certain things uch as creationism on other people when infact they completely ignore some of the teachings of the bible.. Such as not judging, helping the poverty striken, treating fellow man peacefully and with respect.. None of these things usualy ever happen.. Top that off oen can not use a argument in the Bible when there is not a clear and concise understanding of it.. There are millions on the planet who interpret the Bible   differently from the next person..  The majority can't even decide whether things such as Noah's ark was a exageration, metaphore, actualility...  So for instance if you used a argument of the bible your interpretation could be utterly different from actuality making it a opinion.

   In all philosophical arguments the wieght of the argument matters, not the wieght of the book, person or people who it is coming from..  IF this was true, then religion for instance as well as other things would only be controled by the most powerful people regardless if it went against actuality, which has happened through out history.

 The Noah's ark views and different denominations of Christianity aren't important because the Bible is available to You and can provide guidance to You as concerning missuses etc. It's personal and human error will always be here, it's easy to notice when it shows up.  

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
TSCombo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

  Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then...  Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self...  To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

    Do cease to presume a persons motives such as longing for purpose in ones life.. Far as I see every one seems to make that decision, even from a religious perspective that god gave us free will, making it utterly contridictory and a paradox if purpose which is a part of fate is involved..   Also you must define what you mean by profit, profit could very well mean anything to every person..  The one thing that never goes to waste though is the seeking of knowledge.. People now adays specially in Christainity in the US, seem to try to press certain things uch as creationism on other people when infact they completely ignore some of the teachings of the bible.. Such as not judging, helping the poverty striken, treating fellow man peacefully and with respect.. None of these things usualy ever happen.. Top that off oen can not use a argument in the Bible when there is not a clear and concise understanding of it.. There are millions on the planet who interpret the Bible   differently from the next person..  The majority can't even decide whether things such as Noah's ark was a exageration, metaphore, actualility...  So for instance if you used a argument of the bible your interpretation could be utterly different from actuality making it a opinion.

   In all philosophical arguments the wieght of the argument matters, not the wieght of the book, person or people who it is coming from..  IF this was true, then religion for instance as well as other things would only be controled by the most powerful people regardless if it went against actuality, which has happened through out history.

 The Noah's ark views and different denominations of Christianity aren't important because the Bible is available to You and can provide guidance to You as concerning missuses etc. It's personal and human error will always be here, it's easy to notice when it shows up.  

  Yeah I wasn't saying the Bible right or wrong.. But in a discussion like this no amount of science that we know today nor religion can prove how we came to be.. That is the entire point, that we are all ignorant on such a subject as well as in life/ingenearl as well...  Socrates in Athens nearly was burned as a heretic for saying this, but it is now one of our bases for really any argument in society and philosophy to this day.. .. Anyways I am out, good discussion with ya.

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"][QUOTE="-The-Freeman-"][QUOTE="Buffalo_Soulja"]

[QUOTE="joezer3003"]How did God come from nothing? Answer me that.
BOOYAKUSHA!
sSubZerOo

God must have created Time, therefore at the commencement of Time God had existed... thus God always existed.

That's supposing that God exists.

Yo hombre, Time cannot be created by an entity, it exists because all other dimensions exist.

If you beleive in God I'm sure it's not very hard a stretch to believe Time was created.

It's like saying that a bird can't exist because it wouldn't be able to fly :? That's what the concept of a bird does

If you have ever created something then look at it's limitations in comparison to yours. God is spiritual,  not biological but as an example, I'm saying that limitations can't be place on him by what he created because it's contrary to the thought of God in the first place.

  Can you teach us on this then, what is god...   If he is eternal and supposedly he just made the universe what has he been doing for the infinity of time or existance, the thing he has created?  Was he just drifiting in blackness for the entirity of his existance intil he actually began creation?  Why did god make the universe so massivly large and decide to populate only one planet, when there is hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe each with their own hundreds of billions of stars...  

   The point is all of us here can not explain exactly what god is when we can not even understand of fanthom what ETERNAL is, we have no experience or evidence.. The farthest thing to eternal is the universe and some how we believe that it was created.. So we have absolutly no understand of such a thing with out a beginning nor a end..

   And no the reason why we can't put limits on him is because he forms every mystery we have yet prove otherwise through out time..   Your point is a complete estimation and guess of what god is and truely exist, your point is no better then worse then a scientific explaination. What shocks me though is the arrogant presumptions people are making when we are all ignorant on this subject...   This is like talking about a sport such as Football, making claims about it while having utterly no knowledge on what football is..   Can't people take the fact that mankind in general just DOES not know about some of these things?  Can't people handle that we have no idea what happens when you die, are we that selfish or shallow that we have to make up some fairy tale about the afterlife when we have absolutly no idea what happens and it is a complete utter mystery...  

   As I see it though religion has been used to claim in the most simplistic ways mysteries man has observed through out time.. Lightening and storms for instance in the past were believed to be the work of angry gods, we now know how they are created and what happens now.. Could this merely be the same thing with the big bang or creation as we know it? That mankind is too insecure with this we have to have to put in a highly simplistic creation to feel better about a mystery that has not been uncovered and may never before mankind dies out as a race.. ?  What ever happened to the simpliest of words of "I don't know".

  Please teach us then.. What is the purpose of the night sky, what is the purpose of the different spieces of life, why do we die, what is the purpose to our limited life, What is the meaning of life, the list goes on... Please explain this then...  Btw also do not bring in "because the bible says so, or some one else says so" arguments can not be won by the wieght of who is saying it only the wieght of the point/argument it self...  To be wise one first must realize that they are ignorant.

    Do cease to presume a persons motives such as longing for purpose in ones life.. Far as I see every one seems to make that decision, even from a religious perspective that god gave us free will, making it utterly contridictory and a paradox if purpose which is a part of fate is involved..   Also you must define what you mean by profit, profit could very well mean anything to every person..  The one thing that never goes to waste though is the seeking of knowledge.. People now adays specially in Christainity in the US, seem to try to press certain things uch as creationism on other people when infact they completely ignore some of the teachings of the bible.. Such as not judging, helping the poverty striken, treating fellow man peacefully and with respect.. None of these things usualy ever happen.. Top that off oen can not use a argument in the Bible when there is not a clear and concise understanding of it.. There are millions on the planet who interpret the Bible   differently from the next person..  The majority can't even decide whether things such as Noah's ark was a exageration, metaphore, actualility...  So for instance if you used a argument of the bible your interpretation could be utterly different from actuality making it a opinion.

   In all philosophical arguments the wieght of the argument matters, not the wieght of the book, person or people who it is coming from..  IF this was true, then religion for instance as well as other things would only be controled by the most powerful people regardless if it went against actuality, which has happened through out history.

 The Noah's ark views and different denominations of Christianity aren't important because the Bible is available to You and can provide guidance to You as concerning missuses etc. It's personal and human error will always be here, it's easy to notice when it shows up.  

  Yeah I wasn't saying the Bible right or wrong.. But in a discussion like this no amount of science that we know today nor religion can prove how we came to be.. That is the entire point, that we are all ignorant on such a subject as well as in life/ingenearl as well...  Socrates in Athens nearly was burned as a heretic for saying this, but it is now one of our bases for really any argument in society and philosophy to this day.. .. Anyways I am out, good discussionwith ya.

The universe did not happen in an explosion it is just a figure os speech, it started as an infintessimal speck and there was no time up down left right in or out but then somthing happened, somthing that caused the infintessimal speck to expand GREATLY into the universe but it only had hyrdrogen in it at the time, but due to chemial reactions and heat the hydrogen turned into helium and then into all the other elements. NOT created by some sort of old man who sits in the sky. whatsit2ya

This is where the Atheistic/Theistic arguement falls through:

Both sides believe that in (G v-G), I believe you even stated the same somewhere before.

God exists (Theist) or God does not exist (Atheist), therefore if not one then the other as stipulated by the law of excluded middle. However, the law stipulates that you have to know the truth value of G in order to make the logical assertion (ie. There has to be a proof or disproof of G). To do so without a proof or disproof of G is called a fallacy of the law of excluded middle.

As a result of the inability to conclusively prove G, the IPU parodies the situation of believing in God because the logical conditions (which haven't, cannot, or have yet to be disproved) which allow God to exist/not exist also allow the IPU to exist/not exist.

As far as the Invisible Pink Unicorn, it's existence is vacuously true because it is the case that there are no Unicorns.

ie. All Unicorns are Invisible and Pink:

Because there are no Unicorns, one cannot prove that there are any that are not Invisible, and because there are none that are invisible one cannot prove that there are any of those that are Pink.

This is why the case for or against Gods existence is unprovable until everything is known. A leap based from assumption implies faith, which cannot be said to be scientific according to falsifiability. We can only state with a high probability that God does not exist but cannot fully conclude he does not without a doubt.

In the second in relation to existence of objects such as Love. There are two views, one being that entities have no real existence unless instantiated by an observer (Nominalism) and the other being that entities exist without observers (Realism). In the time I've spent on the subject, neither one can be said to be more truthful than the other since it is a matter of perspective. I support the assesment that entities like Love exist independant of an observer namely because we create an assumption that such entities do not exist if there are no observers that are perceptable of it.

From that we could conclude Gamma Rays do not exist prior to human discovery, which is silly. On the other hand I do support that abstract intangible concepts also have to be instantiated as a part of that existence, because if there were no observers could Love really be said to exist? No, because part of it's existence depends on there being someone to conceive it. More simply, Love does exist independant of observation but must be observed/understood in order to be claimed to exist. Ultimately both the Realist and Nominalist points stand in that neither can be proven to be right, at least for now.
Atrus

And again, if truth is objective, then what drives us to discover this fact? Our subjective beliefs cause us to search for an objective fact to prove that our beliefs are true, thus it is subjectivity that drives human progress, not objectivity. For example, I don't bother to look for proof that God exists because I have already found proof, the Bible. I don't care whether or not it is full of holes, if it is 2000 years old, or not, the word of God remains constant.

 tycoonmike

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

And again, if truth is objective, then what drives us to discover this fact? Our subjective beliefs cause us to search for an objective fact to prove that our beliefs are true, thus it is subjectivity that drives human progress, not objectivity. For example, I don't bother to look for proof that God exists because I have already found proof, the Bible. I don't care whether or not it is full of holes, if it is 2000 years old, or not, the word of God remains constant.

 Decessus

That's the point I'm trying to make to you. An Invisible Pink Unicorn is different than a belief in God because it's not dealing with the origin or purpose of Human Life. If you believe that God is a Pink Unicorn that's one thing but not believing in a Pink Unicorn by itself doesn't present a counter-view point in place of it. The question of a God does present a counter-view automaticaly in it's place by not believing in a God, you believe that there is not a God and therefore human life doesn't have purpose because it wasn't created with purpose. I believe your life has purpose, but you believe humans beings don't.TSCombo

[QUOTE="TSCombo"] That's the point I'm trying to make to you. An Invisible Pink Unicorn is different than a belief in God because it's not dealing with the origin or purpose of Human Life. If you believe that God is a Pink Unicorn that's one thing but not believing in a Pink Unicorn by itself doesn't present a counter-view point in place of it. The question of a God does present a counter-view automaticaly in it's place by not believing in a God, you believe that there is not a God and therefore human life doesn't have purpose because it wasn't created with purpose. I believe your life has purpose, but you believe humans beings don't.Decessus

1. Do you believe that snakes can talk? 2. Do you believe that man was created from dust? 3. Do you believe that at one point man all spoke the same language and God confused the language? 4. Do you believe that Noah created an ark that is measured at 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high and put two of every kind of animal on this ark and then God flooded the entire earth?
Decessus

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

And again, if truth is objective, then what drives us to discover this fact? Our subjective beliefs cause us to search for an objective fact to prove that our beliefs are true, thus it is subjectivity that drives human progress, not objectivity. For example, I don't bother to look for proof that God exists because I have already found proof, the Bible. I don't care whether or not it is full of holes, if it is 2000 years old, or not, the word of God remains constant.

withouthatred

[QUOTE="whatsit2ya"]The universe did not happen in an explosion it is just a figure os speech, it started as an infintessimal speck and there was no time up down left right in or out but then somthing happened, somthing that caused the infintessimal speck to expand GREATLY into the universe but it only had hyrdrogen in it at the time, but due to chemial reactions and heat the hydrogen turned into helium and then into all the other elements. NOT created by some sort of old man who sits in the sky. Chessy_Nachos

There is a theory of gravity, but there is no law of gravity.  You can not observe gravity.  You can only observe the effects of gravity.  I don't believe we have instruments small enough to see a graviton as that would be smaller than an atom. 

The law of the excluded middle states that (P v -P) is true. It doesn't deal with the truth value of P itself. Committing the fallacy of the excluded middle, also known as a false dilemma, is when only two choices are presented when there are other viable options. A good example is when President Bush said in his 2001 speech, "You are either with us or you're against us in the fight against terror." There are choices other than the two that Bush presented; you could be neutral, or it could be that a country just doesn't concern itself with other countries problems.

You cannot prove that unicorns do not exist anymore than you can prove God does not exist. 100% certainty is impossible unless you can define the universe you're working with. In the real world, levels of truth must be established so it's possible to call something a fact, even though we can never been absolutely certain of it's truthfulness.

I believe there are certain entities that exist independent of an observer, however love can't be said to be one of them. Love describe a type of relationship that two people have with one another. If those two people never existed, you can't claim that the love they would have had exists somewhere else or exists in part somewhere else. Something can't half exist, it either does or it doesn't. Thus, if nobody existed, love would not exist.
Decessus

[QUOTE="Chessy_Nachos"][QUOTE="whatsit2ya"]The universe did not happen in an explosion it is just a figure os speech, it started as an infintessimal speck and there was no time up down left right in or out but then somthing happened, somthing that caused the infintessimal speck to expand GREATLY into the universe but it only had hyrdrogen in it at the time, but due to chemial reactions and heat the hydrogen turned into helium and then into all the other elements. NOT created by some sort of old man who sits in the sky. drj077

There is a theory of gravity, but there is no law of gravity.  You can not observe gravity.  You can only observe the effects of gravity.  I don't believe we have instruments small enough to see a graviton as that would be smaller than an atom. 

[QUOTE="drj077"]

[QUOTE="Chessy_Nachos"][QUOTE="whatsit2ya"]The universe did not happen in an explosion it is just a figure os speech, it started as an infintessimal speck and there was no time up down left right in or out but then somthing happened, somthing that caused the infintessimal speck to expand GREATLY into the universe but it only had hyrdrogen in it at the time, but due to chemial reactions and heat the hydrogen turned into helium and then into all the other elements. NOT created by some sort of old man who sits in the sky. withouthatred

There is a theory of gravity, but there is no law of gravity.  You can not observe gravity.  You can only observe the effects of gravity.  I don't believe we have instruments small enough to see a graviton as that would be smaller than an atom. 

No, but it has a silly name.  It deserves to have its existence questioned. 

As for the little particles remark (which is a good point, by the way), we can see atoms and we can see how cold, heat, pressure, and the like influence atoms at the atomic level. 

This is how I see. God created the Universe, then he created the Laws which govern the universe. The Bible was written by MEN a long time ago. And since they didn't understand as much science as we do today they wrote down what they thought God did in the Bible.cool_baller

Hmmm....what God did in the Bible.... ?

So, the Bible is actually like the movie "The Neverending Story" and Jesus is really just Atreyu and he rides around on a weird white, fury dragon-like thing.  It all makes sense now. 

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

1. Do you believe that snakes can talk? 2. Do you believe that man was created from dust? 3. Do you believe that at one point man all spoke the same language and God confused the language? 4. Do you believe that Noah created an ark that is measured at 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high and put two of every kind of animal on this ark and then God flooded the entire earth?
tycoonmike

[QUOTE="withouthatred"][QUOTE="drj077"]

[QUOTE="Chessy_Nachos"][QUOTE="whatsit2ya"]The universe did not happen in an explosion it is just a figure os speech, it started as an infintessimal speck and there was no time up down left right in or out but then somthing happened, somthing that caused the infintessimal speck to expand GREATLY into the universe but it only had hyrdrogen in it at the time, but due to chemial reactions and heat the hydrogen turned into helium and then into all the other elements. NOT created by some sort of old man who sits in the sky. drj077

There is a theory of gravity, but there is no law of gravity.  You can not observe gravity.  You can only observe the effects of gravity.  I don't believe we have instruments small enough to see a graviton as that would be smaller than an atom. 

No, but it has a silly name.  It deserves to have its existence questioned. 

As for the little particles remark (which is a good point, by the way), we can see atoms and we can see how cold, heat, pressure, and the like influence atoms at the atomic level. 

1. "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the women, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" That would be speech. A talking snake.

As of today, yes, they are incapable of human speech, but during the time of Adam and Eve, they may have been. For all we know, the serpent was actually a metaphor for Satan, tempting Eve to sin. As I said, anything is possible.

2. Humans were not created from dust. Dust refers to small solid particles. Dust also did not create the solar system.

Then what revolved around the sun that created the planets? As compared to the universe, the meteor-sized rocks that made up the "dust" of the solar system were indeed, dust, just as "dust" as we know it, tiny particles of pollen, dead organisms, etc., is miniscular to the "vastness" of our rooms.

3. Anything is possible huh? Let me push you off a 50 meter cliff, and we'll see if it's possible for you to fly.

You could try, but for one you don't know where I live, for two, it's doubtful you would be able to lure me to a place like that, and for three, even if you could, you'd still have to immobilise me before pushing me.

4. This statement right here pretty much proves that you are incapable of rational thought. If you honestly believe that all the creatures in the world can fit onto a vessel made of wood that is less than half the size of a US Navy aircraft carrier, then I'm afraid you are beyond hope. You're either a fool, or you're a slave and neither one is very promising.

Anything is possible to an omnipotent being. Who is to say that God didn't shrink the animals so that they wouldn't require that much food, or made them so that they wouldn't require food period? With every possible answer there comes a plethora of different explinations. For all we know the Ark was a spaceship!

Then what does that make you, a person who refuses to believe anything but science? Just as I am a slave to religion, you are a slave to science, and it doesn't matter if you will alter your scientific knowledge to fit the latest research, that just proves that you are lead by the nose by science, and you peacefully follow. I on the other hand, have tried to escape from the organised religions by combining scientific theories with those of religion.
Decessus

[QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="withouthatred"][QUOTE="drj077"]

[QUOTE="Chessy_Nachos"][QUOTE="whatsit2ya"]The universe did not happen in an explosion it is just a figure os speech, it started as an infintessimal speck and there was no time up down left right in or out but then somthing happened, somthing that caused the infintessimal speck to expand GREATLY into the universe but it only had hyrdrogen in it at the time, but due to chemial reactions and heat the hydrogen turned into helium and then into all the other elements. NOT created by some sort of old man who sits in the sky. withouthatred

There is a theory of gravity, but there is no law of gravity.  You can not observe gravity.  You can only observe the effects of gravity.  I don't believe we have instruments small enough to see a graviton as that would be smaller than an atom. 

No, but it has a silly name.  It deserves to have its existence questioned. 

As for the little particles remark (which is a good point, by the way), we can see atoms and we can see how cold, heat, pressure, and the like influence atoms at the atomic level. 

what i meant is that there is a law for the observed effects of gravity like say the moon got 1/2 closer to the earth the the attraction would be 4 times greater and the moon would have to orbit faster so that conservation of angular momentum would be conserved same thing as it drifed farther from earth it would obrit slower to conserver it.

as for graivtrons it is a thoery trying to explain the observed attration of large masses

also light thoery is not very well deloped trying to explain how other things happned with a theory that so little is know about is pointless

e.g. light speeding experiments makes light go 300 times faster than c in a short distance 3 times faster than c over a long distance,slowing downlight to zero then making it go normal speed,making an electron go faster than c in a vacum. and other things

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

1. Do you believe that snakes can talk? 2. Do you believe that man was created from dust? 3. Do you believe that at one point man all spoke the same language and God confused the language? 4. Do you believe that Noah created an ark that is measured at 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high and put two of every kind of animal on this ark and then God flooded the entire earth?
Decessus

Statement number 4 is possible the bible only says animals after there kinds not speices. there would be about 8k-14k diffrent animals after thier kind that we see today. I dont think Noah took 5 speices of dog or 20 speices of bird even if the bird was able to reproduce with all its speices kind and was simply a dove. a horse and zebra can have feritle off spring and many other examples with other animals are out there.also he could of tooken the young or baby version of these animals expeail the animals that would be very large as adults

In logic one has to know the truth value of P in order to use the law of excluded middle. The false dilemma is created when the value of P is unknown or the statement non-conforming to the principle but the principle is still used regardless.

ie. "If you are with us then you are against us" does not conform to the principle because it states (if A then B)
Wheras "you are with us or you are not with us" creates (A v -A).

One must know the truth value of A for the law of excluded middle to apply.

While maximal truth is impossible, the highest probabilities dictate truth. However, the value in citing there is no God or there is a God involves a leap of faith to a degree that it cannot be called a fact in science, math or logic. We can 'believe' it to be fact but it allows the theistic argument to persist since God can then be 'believed' to exist. Instead we use prevailing reasoning to deduce that God very likely does not exist or is purposeless.

Thirdly, like I said the discussion of existence continues between realist and nominalist approaches. If we were to adopt that Love only exists because of it's properties endemic to an observer, what about abstracts like Mathematics? or Physics? They are abstract representations created by humans, as part of the definition of the Universe.

Does Physics and Math exist without humans? Base 10 representations may die with humans but these concepts are part of the continued existence of the universe and so must go on to exist beyond humans, more so because the human variable plays no part in the calculation.
Atrus

Statement number 4 is possible the bible only says animals after there kinds not speices. there would be about 8k-14k diffrent animals after thier kind that we see today. I dont think Noah took 5 speices of dog or 20 speices of bird even if the bird was able to reproduce with all its speices kind and was simply a dove. a horse and zebra can have feritle off spring and many other examples with other animals are out there.also he could of tooken the young or baby version of these animals expeail the animals that would be very large as adults

Chessy_Nachos

1.  As of today, yes, they are incapable of human speech, but during the time of Adam and Eve, they may have been. For all we know, the serpent was actually a metaphor for Satan, tempting Eve to sin. As I said, anything is possible.

2.  Then what revolved around the sun that created the planets? As compared to the universe, the meteor-sized rocks that made up the "dust" of the solar system were indeed, dust, just as "dust" as we know it, tiny particles of pollen, dead organisms, etc., is miniscular to the "vastness" of our rooms.

3.  You could try, but for one you don't know where I live, for two, it's doubtful you would be able to lure me to a place like that, and for three, even if you could, you'd still have to immobilise me before pushing me.

4.  Then what does that make you, a person who refuses to believe anything but science? Just as I am a slave to religion, you are a slave to science, and it doesn't matter if you will alter your scientific knowledge to fit the latest research, that just proves that you are lead by the nose by science, and you peacefully follow. I on the other hand, have tried to escape from the organised religions by combining scientific theories with those of religion.
tycoonmike