If you belief in evolution and are atheist let me ask you a question ?

[QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.TSCombo

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.drj077

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

Your post sucked...but your sig more than makes up for it. GOOD SHOW!

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.drj077

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

 Of course, when God came to Earth in the form of a human he obeyed the laws he created until he decided not to, that's what we call miracles.

The other laws are still limits that you wish to place on God so you can negate him, it's very counter-productive.

That's easy.............

There was never nothing.

[QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.TSCombo

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

 Of course, when God came to Earth in the form of a human he obeyed the laws he created until he decided not to, that's what we call miracles.

The other laws are still limits that you wish to place on God so you can negate him, it's very counter-productive.

It has been discovered and it is all over the news.  The link between voice patterns, handedness, and hair whorling have all been linked to homosexuality.  These are not environmentally induced phenomenon.  They are genetically linked and are caused by genetic changes during brain specialization.  Not only that, but it has been shown that altered hormone levels directly impact gene regulation in both adults and children.  These same hormones exist in the womb and are capable of fluctuating wildly.  Not only that, but maternal antibodies to androgens have also been identified as a possible cause.  Either way, the end result is hormones changing gene regulation, which changes brain specialization patterns.  Whether it be hormones or another chemical, the cause is environmental, but the result is genetic and it's genetics that code for the proteins that alter brain specialization, the creation of neurotransmitters, and the development of the entire nervous system. 

Thus, it's genetic and it will always be genetic, because even if it is the environment, it's still causing a change in gene regulation and change in the developmental outcome of an individual. 

EDIT:

Also, homosexuality is not strictly a behavior.  It's a set of phenotypic conditions that are caused by gene regulation.  As it has numerous physical manifestations, it is not dictated simply by behavior, but instead by the genes that control those behaviors as those genes control/create the regions of the brain that control those behaviors to begin with.

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.drj077

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

 Of course, when God came to Earth in the form of a human he obeyed the laws he created until he decided not to, that's what we call miracles.

The other laws are still limits that you wish to place on God so you can negate him, it's very counter-productive.

It has been discovered and it is all over the news.  The link between voice patterns, handedness, and hair whorling have all been linked to homosexuality.  These are not environmentally induced phenomenon.  They are genetically linked and are caused by genetic changes during brain specialization.  Not only that, but it has been shown that altered hormone levels directly impact gene regulation in both adults and children.  These same hormones exist in the womb and are capable of fluctuating wildly.  Not only that, but maternal antibodies to androgens have also been identified as a possible cause.  Either way, the end result is hormones changing gene regulation, which changes brain specialization patterns.  Whether it be hormones or another chemical, the cause is environmental, but the result is genetic and it's genetics that code for the proteins that alter brain specialization, the creation of neurotransmitters, and the development of the entire nervous system. 

Thus, it's genetic and it will always be genetic, because even if it is the environment, it's still causing a change in gene regulation and change in the developmental outcome of an individual. 

EDIT:

Also, homosexuality is not strictly a behavior.  It's a set of phenotypic conditions that are caused by gene regulation.  As it has numerous physical manifestations, it is not dictated simply by behavior, but instead by the genes that control those behaviors as those genes control/create the regions of the brain that control those behaviors to begin with.

[QUOTE="Trickshot771"][QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="azargushasb"]

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

qetuo6

What created God?

I'd imagine that since "you cannot create something out of nothing", something created God.

Yeah I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't really believe in that Adam and Eve stuff because then how were there dinosaurs, and the Big Bang doesn't really make since because explosions usually don't create stuff.Trickshot771

[QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.TSCombo

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

 Of course, when God came to Earth in the form of a human he obeyed the laws he created until he decided not to, that's what we call miracles.

The other laws are still limits that you wish to place on God so you can negate him, it's very counter-productive.

It has been discovered and it is all over the news.  The link between voice patterns, handedness, and hair whorling have all been linked to homosexuality.  These are not environmentally induced phenomenon.  They are genetically linked and are caused by genetic changes during brain specialization.  Not only that, but it has been shown that altered hormone levels directly impact gene regulation in both adults and children.  These same hormones exist in the womb and are capable of fluctuating wildly.  Not only that, but maternal antibodies to androgens have also been identified as a possible cause.  Either way, the end result is hormones changing gene regulation, which changes brain specialization patterns.  Whether it be hormones or another chemical, the cause is environmental, but the result is genetic and it's genetics that code for the proteins that alter brain specialization, the creation of neurotransmitters, and the development of the entire nervous system. 

Thus, it's genetic and it will always be genetic, because even if it is the environment, it's still causing a change in gene regulation and change in the developmental outcome of an individual. 

EDIT:

Also, homosexuality is not strictly a behavior.  It's a set of phenotypic conditions that are caused by gene regulation.  As it has numerous physical manifestations, it is not dictated simply by behavior, but instead by the genes that control those behaviors as those genes control/create the regions of the brain that control those behaviors to begin with.

Sexual orientation is governed by a constellation of genes that are being regulated through hormonal and chemical effects.  There will never be a recognizable pattern.  It is known that numerous genes are undergoing regulation, because numerous genes are involved in the processes that cause physical development of the brain and specialization of the brain afterwards. 

Current science has already dictated that it is genetic.  All that is unknown is that science has no idea what the true cause of the gene regulation is that alteres specialization.  Every science article that I've read that has been funded by an NIH grant will say this in their discussion.  Not only that, but this is the exact mechanism that a reproductive biologist, a neuroanatomist, a neurologist, a psychiatrist, and an endocrinologist have taught me at medical school. 

The human genome is filled with enhancers and silencers that are regulated by hormonal and chemical influence.  Gene regulation happens every second of every minute of the human lifetime. 

EDIT:

As for your ridiculous prison remark, it's not homosexuality if it's done for survival and a sense of sexual need.  I doubt you've ever even walked in a prison to confer with people about this subject.  I have, so don't tell me about your idealistic crap. 

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Chessy_Nachos"]and i explained it the oringinal sin is the tendency of our human nature just being born does not make you a sinner what you think and do is like a man who lust after a married woman has commeted sin in his heartFignewton50

True, don't use wiki as a souce, but he's right none the less. The basis of original sin is that we all pay for sin of Adam and Eve, thus even the most innocent among us are not worthy in the kingdom of heaven... at least not without redemption through Christ. That's my understanding of it anyway.

thats why its just a theory... isn't proven yet lolJenovawitness

1. And yet you didn't have to do so. I was confusing the two terms, meaning objective instead of subjective, thus according to your logic, the past argument was illogical.

3. But why should it matter to us, the common man, if it is true or not if we cannot experience it for ourselves, whether directly, like the explorers who discovered America, or indirectly, by learning about the past in school? The only way we can know it is truth is by proving it, and so long as the Theory of Evolution and the Theory of Intelligent Design, and the Theory of Relativity remain just that, theories, we cannot completely prove that they exist, thus truth is objective until it is proven to be true. We cannot prove that the above theories, as well as all the other theories out there are completely true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and thus, our own opinions determine for us whether or not they are true.

4. But so long as we haven't discovered the true laws of logic, we cannot determine if your sense of logic, my sense of logic, or if anyone's sense of logic is correct. The futility of it is that we don't know, and we will never know, because we, being human, will always find something within the laws that we disagree with.

5. I have no intention of reading it. I worded my post wrong, it is one of the driving factors in evolution, not the driving factor in evolution.

6. We already have agreed to this, but we are also too pig-headed to realise that we are both entitled to our own opinions over what the rules of logic, whether or not God exists, whether or not truth is objective, and so on, thus we continue to argue.
tycoonmike

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]

[QUOTE="curtkobain"]how was god created? something has to be created from something. you completely contradict yourself saying that something cant come from nothing and then say there is a magic guy floating in the sky who has been there forever.drj077

There is no law or science book you can read that can limit God, that's what God does, the unthinkable. If you don't believe in God that's one thing but you can't expect to conclude his existence because he's not human enough for you on a scientific level.

That part right there is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  The Bible does not dictate that God created time.  The Bible states that on a particular day a certain aspect of creation occurred.  Thus, since no mention is made of God creating either time or the existence of the "day", then time precedes the writing of the Bible and the creation of the universe.  All that is mentioned is that God created life on a "particular day", which does not necessarily mean that the day in question was the first day.  It can simply mean that God chose that day as "Day 1" of matter in the universe.  Since everything before the creation of the universe was eternal, then time must also be eternal.   

Homosexuality is proven to be genetic.  It's just not known how environmental factors might alter gene regulation.  All outside and inside influences that alter phenotype in a human being are directly related to gene regulation.  Thus, homosexuality is genetic.  Just like you being right or left handed is genetic, the color of your skin and eyes is genetic, and your inability to ever comprehend anything I have to say regarding science is genetic.

By saying that the laws of the universe apply to this universe only, you're openly admitting that God must obey the laws of this universe in order to ever exist on this mortal plain.  By doing that, you openly claim that God can break the laws of thermodynamics, which have been set into place by God, himself.  God breaks the laws of thermodynamics by not undergoing entropy, thus God would negate its own existence. 

 Of course, when God came to Earth in the form of a human he obeyed the laws he created until he decided not to, that's what we call miracles.

The other laws are still limits that you wish to place on God so you can negate him, it's very counter-productive.

It has been discovered and it is all over the news.  The link between voice patterns, handedness, and hair whorling have all been linked to homosexuality.  These are not environmentally induced phenomenon.  They are genetically linked and are caused by genetic changes during brain specialization.  Not only that, but it has been shown that altered hormone levels directly impact gene regulation in both adults and children.  These same hormones exist in the womb and are capable of fluctuating wildly.  Not only that, but maternal antibodies to androgens have also been identified as a possible cause.  Either way, the end result is hormones changing gene regulation, which changes brain specialization patterns.  Whether it be hormones or another chemical, the cause is environmental, but the result is genetic and it's genetics that code for the proteins that alter brain specialization, the creation of neurotransmitters, and the development of the entire nervous system. 

Thus, it's genetic and it will always be genetic, because even if it is the environment, it's still causing a change in gene regulation and change in the developmental outcome of an individual. 

EDIT:

Also, homosexuality is not strictly a behavior.  It's a set of phenotypic conditions that are caused by gene regulation.  As it has numerous physical manifestations, it is not dictated simply by behavior, but instead by the genes that control those behaviors as those genes control/create the regions of the brain that control those behaviors to begin with.

Sexual orientation is governed by a constellation of genes that are being regulated through hormonal and chemical effects.  There will never be a recognizable pattern.  It is known that numerous genes are undergoing regulation, because numerous genes are involved in the processes that cause physical development of the brain and specialization of the brain afterwards. 

Current science has already dictated that it is genetic.  All that is unknown is that science has no idea what the true cause of the gene regulation is that alteres specialization.  Every science article that I've read that has been funded by an NIH grant will say this in their discussion.  Not only that, but this is the exact mechanism that a reproductive biologist, a neuroanatomist, a neurologist, a psychiatrist, and an endocrinologist have taught me at medical school. 

The human genome is filled with enhancers and silencers that are regulated by hormonal and chemical influence.  Gene regulation happens every second of every minute of the human lifetime. 

EDIT:

As for your ridiculous prison remark, it's not homosexuality if it's done for survival and a sense of sexual need.  I doubt you've ever even walked in a prison to confer with people about this subject.  I have, so don't tell me about your idealistic crap. 

That's just it. Faith and logic aren't the same thing but the lines blur from time to time. On the daily level, with the way I live my life and dealing with other humans Faith is just as important as logic. I could deduce the same from my brother even though his future behavior isn't fact, I have faith in his character, I feel that I know him because of past behavior that he has decided to show me but I really may not. It seems logical but your guess is still faith-based because you can't say it's a fact until it happens. I know because you can see your brother and touch him you think that it's more viable than hearing or feeling God. I believe God proves himself through people and events and by mapping out the human heart and delivering us a moral code.

TSCombo

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something  from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

Read a book about it before you assume things. BTW, at least there's evidence of the big bang... I'm not seeing to much evidence that God exists (and faith does not count, because if you pull that crap then why can't we say we have "faith" in the big bang?).

PS: Here is a link http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html. Try opening your mind and read about a theory that is actually logical.

One more thing... you say that there was nothing before the big bang, how did it happen? Well, how was God created? Was he always here? Hmmmmm....

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

ND_gamer

[QUOTE="ND_gamer"]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

withouthatred

HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN PINK IF IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE INVISIBLE!!!! ?????

[QUOTE="withouthatred"][QUOTE="ND_gamer"]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Pintbitter

HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN PINK IF IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE INVISIBLE!!!! ?????

[QUOTE="Pintbitter"][QUOTE="withouthatred"][QUOTE="ND_gamer"]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

withouthatred

HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN PINK IF IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE INVISIBLE!!!! ?????

I think I see the light and it's blue not pink! I'm starting up my own sect now you evil schismatic, damned to hell pagan who goes against the will of the great unicorn :evil:

[QUOTE="drj077"]

Sexual orientation is governed by a constellation of genes that are being regulated through hormonal and chemical effects. There will never be a recognizable pattern. It is known that numerous genes are undergoing regulation, because numerous genes are involved in the processes that cause physical development of the brain and specialization of the brain afterwards.

Current science has already dictated that it is genetic. All that is unknown is that science has no idea what the true cause of the gene regulation is that alteres specialization. Every science article that I've read that has been funded by an NIH grant will say this in their discussion. Not only that, but this is the exact mechanism that a reproductive biologist, a neuroanatomist, a neurologist, a psychiatrist, and an endocrinologist have taught me at medical school.

The human genome is filled with enhancers and silencers that are regulated by hormonal and chemical influence. Gene regulation happens every second of every minute of the human lifetime.

EDIT:

As for your ridiculous prison remark, it's not homosexuality if it's done for survival and a sense of sexual need. I doubt you've ever even walked in a prison to confer with people about this subject. I have, so don't tell me about your idealistic crap.

TSCombo

[QUOTE="TSCombo"]

That's just it. Faith and logic aren't the same thing but the lines blur from time to time. On the daily level, with the way I live my life and dealing with other humans Faith is just as important as logic. I could deduce the same from my brother even though his future behavior isn't fact, I have faith in his character, I feel that I know him because of past behavior that he has decided to show me but I really may not. It seems logical but your guess is still faith-based because you can't say it's a fact until it happens. I know because you can see your brother and touch him you think that it's more viable than hearing or feeling God. I believe God proves himself through people and events and by mapping out the human heart and delivering us a moral code.

Decessus

   I could stay on these boards talking about significant situations in my life and people around me but unless you come to certain realizations on your own it will do you no good. God isn't the cosmic police that punishes people everytime they do something wrong, otherwise everyone would be forced to believe and it wouldn't be a relationship. Nice talking to you but I have to go to work in the morning, I will finish this tomorrow.8)

[QUOTE="TSCombo"][QUOTE="drj077"]

Sexual orientation is governed by a constellation of genes that are being regulated through hormonal and chemical effects. There will never be a recognizable pattern. It is known that numerous genes are undergoing regulation, because numerous genes are involved in the processes that cause physical development of the brain and specialization of the brain afterwards.

Current science has already dictated that it is genetic. All that is unknown is that science has no idea what the true cause of the gene regulation is that alteres specialization. Every science article that I've read that has been funded by an NIH grant will say this in their discussion. Not only that, but this is the exact mechanism that a reproductive biologist, a neuroanatomist, a neurologist, a psychiatrist, and an endocrinologist have taught me at medical school.

The human genome is filled with enhancers and silencers that are regulated by hormonal and chemical influence. Gene regulation happens every second of every minute of the human lifetime.

EDIT:

As for your ridiculous prison remark, it's not homosexuality if it's done for survival and a sense of sexual need. I doubt you've ever even walked in a prison to confer with people about this subject. I have, so don't tell me about your idealistic crap.

Decessus

I'm going to have to disagree. To talk of anything "existing" outside of human understanding is completely meaningless. Since we can't possibly comprehend anything that is outside of our understanding, to suggest that something exists, which is a term that automatically implies understanding, is absurd. Again, it would be the same thing as saying that the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists. The idea of something being pink and being invisible is logically impossible. The idea of something existing outside human understanding is also logically impossible.
Decessus

[QUOTE="Decessus"]
I'm going to have to disagree. To talk of anything "existing" outside of human understanding is completely meaningless. Since we can't possibly comprehend anything that is outside of our understanding, to suggest that something exists, which is a term that automatically implies understanding, is absurd. Again, it would be the same thing as saying that the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists. The idea of something being pink and being invisible is logically impossible. The idea of something existing outside human understanding is also logically impossible.
Atrus

Of course 1+1 can equal 3; there are a variety of mathematical systems, it's just that the conventional arithmetic we know happens to correspond to our physical universe, but nothing forbids other universes from having different principles. Quantum mechanics in a broad sense says that all particles "sort of" exist, and our entire universe is absolutely full of virtual particle pairs spontaneously appearing and annihilating out of nothing.xaos

i am supposedly a "christian". i call myself christian and i really want to believe there is a god and jesus is the son of god but as i grow older it gets harder and harder to believe there is a god. i try to pray to god every night. i try to read the bible every once in a while. i go to church. so far, there has been no evidence that god exists. god never "talked" to me ever. i never seen or heard a god in my dreams even. no matter how much i try to talk to god he never says anything back.

but i'm not dissing christianity, because it works. even if god doesn't exist the idea of there being a god gives people hope and gives people good examples to follow. i seen quite a few bad people and friends of mine, who were always getting in trouble and causing problems, dramatically change after believing in god. the church is a good because it gives people a sense of community and belonging where they can support each other.

on to the topic, yes i believe in evolution and all that physics stuff. 99% of christians today believe in evolution. only the crazy fundamentalists think earth was created in 7 days. however, darwin's theory of evolution only addressed the changes in species, he never addressed the origin of life which we will probably never know for sure.

If existence is bound to human understanding then it becomes the case that in the absence of humans, nothing exists. This itself is an illogical conclusion because it predicates all existence on a subjective viewer, leading to entities winking in and out of existence the moment they pass from observation.

Did atoms exist before humans understood the concept? Or did the discovery of atoms create the existance of atoms? Surely, given that each human itself is composed of atoms, atoms exist before the discovery and therefore exists before human understanding. The same can be applied to variable X where X is an entity yet to be precieved by humans until such a time where there are no more X.

Given that we cannot exhaust all probabilities for the maximal truth, the best we can assert is the highest probability of truth, for which we determine is close enough to be true.
Atrus

[QUOTE="Atrus"]
If existence is bound to human understanding then it becomes the case that in the absence of humans, nothing exists. This itself is an illogical conclusion because it predicates all existence on a subjective viewer, leading to entities winking in and out of existence the moment they pass from observation.

Did atoms exist before humans understood the concept? Or did the discovery of atoms create the existance of atoms? Surely, given that each human itself is composed of atoms, atoms exist before the discovery and therefore exists before human understanding. The same can be applied to variable X where X is an entity yet to be precieved by humans until such a time where there are no more X.

Given that we cannot exhaust all probabilities for the maximal truth, the best we can assert is the highest probability of truth, for which we determine is close enough to be true.
Decessus

You are basically saying that humans should give up on believing in God and instead believe that the physical universe that is presented to us is all that we should deal with. I disagree, the human life is much more than a physical existence and to confine ourselves just to that is contrary to who we are. A belief or disbelief in God is constantly reinforced by how we percieve human life. A disbelief in God means that you believe in nothing which can't be seen also.

TSCombo

[QUOTE="TSCombo"]

You are basically saying that humans should give up on believing in God and instead believe that the physical universe that is presented to us is all that we should deal with. I disagree, the human life is much more than a physical existence and to confine ourselves just to that is contrary to who we are. A belief or disbelief in God is constantly reinforced by how we percieve human life. A disbelief in God means that you believe in nothing which can't be seen also.

Decessus

Proof that human life is more than a physical existence is that my life is more than a physical existence, if yours isn't then you don't need proof otherwise to prove it. That's my reason that can't be discarded because it was discovered by me and has proven itself in the scope of my experiences which aren't the same as yours. You saying that God doesn't exist is a "belief" and is something that you must prove because it's at the heart of human existence. Your belief in an "anti-God" is absurd to me because you have the capacity to know but you refuse it because it's not on your terms. Saying there is no God leaves a void that must be explained.

TSCombo

[QUOTE="Trickshot771"]Yeah I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't really believe in that Adam and Eve stuff because then how were there dinosaurs, and the Big Bang doesn't really make since because explosions usually don't create stuff.GungraveZero

Did I just read that? Dinosaurs were a result of humans trying to breed animals to get what they want?

First off, Dinosaurs and Human beings as we know them never existed at the same time. They were millions of years apart.

Secondly, you should study some astronomy. Specifically super novas and how exploding starts are able to create all of the basic elements in this universe. There are good explinations on how planets are formed, atmospheres are created, and planets are able to sustain water. Then the evolution begins.

This is one complex discussion. I think you should all accept that you aren't going to change each others beliefs.SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="TSCombo"]

Proof that human life is more than a physical existence is that my life is more than a physical existence, if yours isn't then you don't need proof otherwise to prove it. That's my reason that can't be discarded because it was discovered by me and has proven itself in the scope of my experiences which aren't the same as yours. You saying that God doesn't exist is a "belief" and is something that you must prove because it's at the heart of human existence. Your belief in an "anti-God" is absurd to me because you have the capacity to know but you refuse it because it's not on your terms. Saying there is no God leaves a void that must be explained.

Decessus

I thought the big bang came from an exploding star.Krazykraz01

[QUOTE="Krazykraz01"]I thought the big bang came from an exploding star.malibu_man

It was similar to an exploding star, called a super nova. But it was much more massive and it was basically all the material in the Universe incredibly contracted, which eventually "exploded", hence the big bang, and sent many of the basic elements shooting outward to eventually collect and form galaxies.

1. It didn't have so much to do with logic as it did with the misunderstanding of terms. I think, at least from your recent posts, you realize that objective means something that is true regardless of whether or not it is believed. Am I safe in saying this much?

2. The reason that it matters is because by accepting that truths are objective, we can strive to work towards the goal of uncovering those objective truths. If you hold the belief that all truth is subjective, then there is no motivation for uncovering the truth, because the truth is nothing more than the wishes and whims of the masses. It is this basic principle that drives human progress.

3. This is true, but reason dictates that the beliefs you hold must be based on rational critical thought. To be honest, the specific rules themselves are not as important as the underlying concept itself. Critical thinking is what is important. Questioning your beliefs, putting them up against the the evidence that exists and then having the courage to alter your beliefs in the face of that evidence. Changing a belief does not mean that that belief is forever unalterable. I believe that natural selection is a driving force behind evolution. I have a huge amount of evidence to support that belief, and very little if any to make me doubt that belief. It is irrational to believe at this moment in time that natural selection does not happen. If ten years from now however, new evidence is presented that shows natural selection was wrong, then it is okay to change my belief. It's okay to admit that I was wrong. It is not okay however to hold a belief that is in direct contradiction to the currently available evidence.

4. Again, we have to use what we are given. Of course we are imperfect beings and we will be wrong and make mistakes. There is nothing wrong about this. That's what science is all about. It is always changing based on new studies, new evidence, and new observations. Yes, sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes people can be stubborn to change. Eventually though, the truth always wins because you can only deny the truth of something for so long when you are presented with overwhelming evidence.

5. The point still remains that natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with heaven or even religion. You can't change and entire concept to suit your own purpose.

6. I don't think I'm being pig-headed. It's not worth arguing over the semantics of the phrase though, so I'll let it go.
Decessus

Yes and I disregard your disbelief because you want to escape the burden of your belief by not stating it. By not believing a God you believe in the opposite. It's like order and disorder. You don't believe in a purpose driven life or existence so you believe in the opposite. There is no safe world that you wish to live in by saying I simply don't believe in a God therefore no one else should. Love, trust, and potential are irrational yet they exist. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your life is more than physical existance but you want to simplify it into a physical day-to-day survival. I can't help you there but my awareness of a transcendent unity that pervades all existence is not shaken, so we can't agree. TSCombo

Okay, the amount of pompousness on this thread is really getting out of control...

[QUOTE="Decessus"]
1. It didn't have so much to do with logic as it did with the misunderstanding of terms. I think, at least from your recent posts, you realize that objective means something that is true regardless of whether or not it is believed. Am I safe in saying this much?

2. The reason that it matters is because by accepting that truths are objective, we can strive to work towards the goal of uncovering those objective truths. If you hold the belief that all truth is subjective, then there is no motivation for uncovering the truth, because the truth is nothing more than the wishes and whims of the masses. It is this basic principle that drives human progress.

3. This is true, but reason dictates that the beliefs you hold must be based on rational critical thought. To be honest, the specific rules themselves are not as important as the underlying concept itself. Critical thinking is what is important. Questioning your beliefs, putting them up against the the evidence that exists and then having the courage to alter your beliefs in the face of that evidence. Changing a belief does not mean that that belief is forever unalterable. I believe that natural selection is a driving force behind evolution. I have a huge amount of evidence to support that belief, and very little if any to make me doubt that belief. It is irrational to believe at this moment in time that natural selection does not happen. If ten years from now however, new evidence is presented that shows natural selection was wrong, then it is okay to change my belief. It's okay to admit that I was wrong. It is not okay however to hold a belief that is in direct contradiction to the currently available evidence.

4. Again, we have to use what we are given. Of course we are imperfect beings and we will be wrong and make mistakes. There is nothing wrong about this. That's what science is all about. It is always changing based on new studies, new evidence, and new observations. Yes, sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes people can be stubborn to change. Eventually though, the truth always wins because you can only deny the truth of something for so long when you are presented with overwhelming evidence.

5. The point still remains that natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with heaven or even religion. You can't change and entire concept to suit your own purpose.

6. I don't think I'm being pig-headed. It's not worth arguing over the semantics of the phrase though, so I'll let it go.
tycoonmike

Okay, the amount of pompousness on this thread is really getting out of control...

mr111111

I don't think you are understanding what I said. I do not hold a belief. I lack a belief. The only "proof" that one needs to not believe in God is that there is no proof of God. Just as someone cannot prove the existence of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn also?

I also never said anything about a purpose driven life. The concept of God is not required to have a life that is meaningful.

Love, trust, and potential are abstract concepts that exist within the human mind. There would be no such thing as "love" if humans didn't exist. Love, by most people's definition, is simply a word that describes the relationship two people have between each other.

I might not be able to change your belief, but that's really only a secondary matter. I like hearing other people's viewpoints.
Decessus

[QUOTE="mr111111"]

Okay, the amount of pompousness on this thread is really getting out of control...

withouthatred

Has it? Dam....

Well,it depends on who you ask. The truth is,nobody knows for sure what's right. Some scientists believe in evolution,and others don't. Some say that the though of life just appearing out of nowhere is nonsense. If you look at how complex the human body is and how complex the earth is,how could all of that just happened by chance? There has to be a creator who created all this. On the other hand,some scientists say they have proof that evolution is true. But some other religions and other scientists have proof against their proof. So,it's a matter of who you choose to believe.

Also,on the subject of who created god. My christian mother always tells me that god had no beginning. He has always existed,and was never "created". That's just hard for us to understand since we're used to things having a beginning,or being created. Yes,it's hard for me to understand too. How could of always been in heaven? There had to of been a time where god wasn't there,right? Well,truth be told,we'll never know.

Before the big bang whier the universe started their was no time , space , or matter . HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS . YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING . It it not one of the laws of psychics ? Their for their had to be a god to to create something  from nothing . If you have a answer for me please tell me .

???

azargushasb

    The bigger question is how can god be created from nothingness?  Its a wrap around that can not be answered by either scientist or religous person.. Because if we are to believe if everythign has a beginning surely the same question can be asked about god if one does exist..   The point of the matter is we at our stages of knowledge can only speculate on such question because we honestly do not know nor can even concieve what eternal really means...   In that sense we have no knowledge to even start this argument when we are all ignorant on the subject..