[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

No GDDR5 is DDR3 thats customized for graphics workloads.

way2funny

That's exactly what the PS4 is using.  What you see on GPU's as GDDR5 is being used on the PS4 as system memory.  The DDR5 is situated on the PS4's GPU and integrated as system memory.  It's GDDR5.  There is NO SUCH THING as normal DDR5 memory.  They are calling it DDR5 because it is GDDR5 used system wide.

Please feel free to google it if you don't believe me.

I guess that's two apologies I'll be waiting for now :S

Right its GDDR5, no such thing as DDR5, they are NOT calling it DDR5 because its GDDR5 so they are calling it GDDR5.

Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory

The G doesnt just mean its on the graphics card, it means its functionally different.

The lack of a G is to denote whether the RAM is being used system wide or not.  Calling it DDR5 makes it clear that I understand it is being used system wide as opposed to labelling it GDDR5 and saves on the responses of people saying it is not just GPU memory.  The reason it has been reported as DDR5 everywhere under the sun is to highlight the fact that it will be used as system wide memory, as opposed to just the GPU.  Effectively it is a new form of system memory as GDDR5 has not been used for this purpose before.  So the simplest solution for me is to label it DDR5 in the title as that's how it has been reported absolutely everywhere.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

IMO that 8gb is great you can never have too much memory. I do video encoding and large 1080p files will use as much memory as you have.

no-scope-AK47

Yes it is great to have more RAM undoubtedly.  That's not what my post is about though, I'm not saying 8GB of DDR5 is a bad thing.  I'm saying that by the time it provides any advantage in the actual games, it will be far behind the PC equivalent.  Rendering it meaningless in terms of SW.

Please re-read the first two pages where I explain 3-4 times that this has nothing to do with whether 8GB can be utilised for other tasks.  I'm not suggesting 8GB is a bad idea, I'm saying it won't be utilised in games.  It provides no advantage in games over the standard current PC setup and won't do for years.  By the time it does, it will be a generation behind what the PC has.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Exactly. Remeber, the PS4 is also doing in-game video recording on a dedicated video encoding chip (to save CPU), so that will suck up a good chunk of that 8 gigs of RAM. 

I imagine that most games will have like 4-5 gigs allocated to them. This is more than enough really. Even Planetside 2 runs with 3ish gigs of RAM total (about 2 gigs for system ram, 1 gig for vRAM).

SaltyMeatballs

Where exactly do you make the jump from that to most 1080p@30 console games in the next generation using 4-5 GB of RAM?  When the most extreme case on the PC in a new engine is only requiring 3GB 1080p@60 (or abouts)?  Crysis 3 ultra in 1440p only just goes above 3GB overall usage.  What exactly is going to be going on in "most" console games to be using 4-5GB RAM when they are only running in 1080p@30?

ROFL, what on earth does that sentence even mean.  Do you even know?  I certainly can't make sense of it.  You don't seem to be saying anything.  Try to come up with;

- Something that makes sense

- A valid point

Only then can you take part in this discussion.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Exactly. Remeber, the PS4 is also doing in-game video recording on a dedicated video encoding chip (to save CPU), so that will suck up a good chunk of that 8 gigs of RAM. 

I imagine that most games will have like 4-5 gigs allocated to them. This is more than enough really. Even Planetside 2 runs with 3ish gigs of RAM total (about 2 gigs for system ram, 1 gig for vRAM).

tormentos

Planetside 2 is way out there in terms of modern games, it uses far more resources than any game I'm aware of and a large part of that by the developers admission is down to poor optimisation on a new engine.  It actually uses around 0.5-1GB VRAM depending on your settings and between 1-2GB system RAM.  So at absolute worst it is roughly 3GB usage or less depending on your settings.  

Where exactly do you make the jump from that to most 1080p@30 console games in the next generation using 4-5 GB of RAM?  When the most extreme case on the PC in a new engine is only requiring 3GB 1080p@60 (or abouts)?  Crysis 3 ultra in 1440p only just goes above 3GB overall usage.  What exactly is going to be going on in "most" console games to be using 4-5GB RAM when they are only running in 1080p@30?

For the sake of argument, let's pretend a game on the newly released consoles out this year uses 5GB of RAM.  With mid range PC GPU's having 3GB DDR5 6 months before the new console generation comes out and high end GPU's having 4GB+ DDR5, this still provides no real advantage and certainly far less of an advantage than the previous generation of consoles had.  That's on release.  By the time the full 8GB DDR5 is used, the equivalent on the PC will be a generation ahead.     

Wrong consistently.  I don't "want to know what the PS4 will do with the extra ram", I know exactly how RAM is used.  Here is my point 1080p@30 games at their most extreme at 1080p use 3GB RAM total, that's for super bastard settings in the most advanced games at higher framerates thant 30FPS.  Higher quality textures = Higher resolution.  PS4 games are going to be 1080p on release are they not?  So this 8GB DDR5 is not going to be used in a game for years to come, not until they come out with graphical possibilities far beyond what we have now.  Planetside 2 has battles featuring 2000 players, 3GB usage. Crysis 3 uses every graphical trick available right now, 3GB top end usage.  Mid range PC GPU's these days have 2-3GB GDDR5 on top of their system memory.  That's 6 months before the PS4 even releases.  

The PS4 has a mid range PC gaming GPU.  It can't do anything beyond Crysis 3 at 1080p, there is nothing it can handle that can use anything like 8GB DDR5 right now.  Not even close.  

So like I said, as is patentily obvious, by the time 8GB DDR5 is relevant and even 60% utilised, the PC equivalent will be years ahead.  It's a meaningless statistic that "cows" are clinging to desperately, because their GPU is average and their CPU is highly questionable.

[QUOTE="crippledmachine"]

I do believe that PS4 memory is a single pool of storage for everything, including the OS and other processes. I can see why it's so big.

DrTrafalgarLaw

*Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah* I see people praising the PS4 for setting industry standards and no one bats an eye at PC....waaaaaaahiamrob7

Your tears and general cluelessness are a constant source of amusement for me.

I don't care whether the 8GB will be useful for running other processes, I'm talking about its relevance for GAMES.  By the time it adds any advantage over current PC setups for gaming, it will be a generation behind the memory inside gaming PC's of the time.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"]You can't have that thread title then call it DDR5. Point is, you don't know sh*t.way2funny

GDDR5 is EXACTLY the same thing as DDR5.  The additional G only identifies whether it is being applied solely to the GPU or not.  

We are talking about game performance, that's what system wars is about correct?  So whether you can use the 8GB for OS and whatever other apps you might want to run on your PS4 and you can't use the GDDR5 on the PC for that is completely irrelevant.  We are talking about game performance.

I'll eagerly anticipate your apology.

No GDDR5 is DDR3 thats customized for graphics workloads.

That's exactly what the PS4 is using.  What you see on GPU's as GDDR5 is being used on the PS4 as system memory.  The DDR5 is situated on the PS4's GPU and integrated as system memory.  It's GDDR5.  There is NO SUCH THING as normal DDR5 memory.  They are calling it DDR5 because it is GDDR5 used system wide.

Please feel free to google it if you don't believe me.

I guess that's two apologies I'll be waiting for now :S

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Right now PC gamers are playing in 1080p and above with 60FPS.  That's what I play in and no game uses anything like 8GB RAM.  The most RAM heavy game I play is DayZ, the Arma 2 mod, coming in at around 2GB RAM.  Most likely because it is an unoptimised mod for another game.  

 

Crysis 3 in ultra 1080p, uses around 1.5GB RAM.  

 

My GPU, a GTX 580 SC, has 1.5GB DDR5 RAM.  More than enough to cover any game currently at 1080p.  I am on the verge of getting a new GPU and even the medium spec GPU nowadays have 2-3GB DDR5 RAM.  I'm looking at a GTX 680 with 4GB DDR5.  Now that is a pretty decent PC, but that 4GB DDR5 will only be relevant if I have a multi monitor setup and some obscene resolution right now.

 

I see a lot of talk of this 8GB DDR5 RAM on the PS4, firstly the GPU and CPU are far more important features for gaming.  The 8GB is really only for longetivity, it is not going to be used for years, the games coming out on the PS4 will use 1-2GB of it at most for 1080p games (which as has already been stated, will be the stndard for the PS4).

 

So this 8GB DDR5 RAM is actually completely irrelevant and will be for a number of years, until games start actually using all that RAM.  In the meantime it will just sit there doing nothing in the console.  Waiting for the day it becomes relevant.  By that time the PC will be running DDR8 or DDR9, or perhaps something even beyond that whole concept.   

 

TL;DR - In short, by the time the 8GB DDR5 becomes actually useful, the standard gaming PC will be another generation ahead in terms of technology.  It will likely feature more RAM of a more advanced variety.  

 

The PS4's GPU seems to be the equivalent of a medium range gaming PC and the CPU is an open question.  I know playing Planetside 2 right now, my computer is CPU limited in terms of framerate, as opposed to GPU limited.  In large battles my framerate dips to 35-40 FPS, which is borderline unacceptable for me.  Now that is down to the large number of people in a battle, sometimes 500-600 people in a single area battling.  I have a 3770K (4 cores) @ 4.6Ghz.  Will 8 cores @ 1.6Ghz really work?  I don't know.

 

What I'm pleased about with the new consoles is that they are very similar to PC's now, the same architecture, means that dodgy PC ports should be a thing of the past.  I do however think that the latest console specs, whilst providing a big boost initially at least on the previous generation, will leave the consoles further behind the PC than this current generation ultimately.  The last generation of consoles were far closer to a top end PC than this generation will be on release.

 

tormentos

Yup fair enough, depends on your settings, it's possible to use 3.5GB RAM total using extremely high resolutions.  The console next generation standard is going to be 1080p@30 allegedly, at least to begin with.  So my point though obviously still stands.  By the time 8GB DDR5 on the PS4 is being utilised, the PC equivlanet will be a generation ahead.  

[QUOTE="crippledmachine"]

I do believe that PS4 memory is a single pool of storage for everything, including the OS and other processes. I can see why it's so big.

Wasdie

Exactly. Remeber, the PS4 is also doing in-game video recording on a dedicated video encoding chip (to save CPU), so that will suck up a good chunk of that 8 gigs of RAM. 

I imagine that most games will have like 4-5 gigs allocated to them. This is more than enough really. Even Planetside 2 runs with 3ish gigs of RAM total (about 2 gigs for system ram, 1 gig for vRAM).

Planetside 2 is way out there in terms of modern games, it uses far more resources than any game I'm aware of and a large part of that by the developers admission is down to poor optimisation on a new engine.  It actually uses around 0.5-1GB VRAM depending on your settings and between 1-2GB system RAM.  So at absolute worst it is roughly 3GB usage or less depending on your settings.  

Where exactly do you make the jump from that to most 1080p@30 console games in the next generation using 4-5 GB of RAM?  When the most extreme case on the PC in a new engine is only requiring 3GB 1080p@60 (or abouts)?  Crysis 3 ultra in 1440p only just goes above 3GB overall usage.  What exactly is going to be going on in "most" console games to be using 4-5GB RAM when they are only running in 1080p@30?

For the sake of argument, let's pretend a game on the newly released consoles out this year uses 5GB of RAM.  With mid range PC GPU's having 3GB DDR5 6 months before the new console generation comes out and high end GPU's having 4GB+ DDR5, this still provides no real advantage and certainly far less of an advantage than the previous generation of consoles had.  That's on release.  By the time the full 8GB DDR5 is used, the equivalent on the PC will be a generation ahead.     

IMO that 8gb is great you can never have too much memory. I do video encoding and large 1080p files will use as much memory as you have.

no-scope-AK47

Yes it is great to have more RAM undoubtedly.  That's not what my post is about though, I'm not saying 8GB of DDR5 is a bad thing.  I'm saying that by the time it provides any advantage in the actual games, it will be far behind the PC equivalent.  Rendering it meaningless in terms of SW.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="Tessellation"] cows believe 8 gigs are just dedicated for graphics.

way2funny

Exactly, the point missed by multiple people in this thread.  

Who cares whether the 8GB will be used by OS or video recording, we are talking about game performance and how relevant it will be in games.  That's what system wars is about right?  Not which system can record videos better, but which runs games better.

Yes, because those system resources (8gb) will be used by the PS4 to DO all of that, play games, record videos, schedualing, etc. It was already said the PS4 will be able to record videos, meaning that it needs to play games as it does and have enough resources left over to record gameplay

What is your point?  Are you agreeing with me?  It's hard to tell.  Like I said, we are talking about the relevance of that 8GB in game performance.  I think it is a great idea they are putting in 8GB.  My point is in terms of game performance/graphical fidelity, by the time it provides some sort of advantage it will be far behind the current tech.