@Black_Knight_00 said:
@iHarlequin said:
Yeah, see? You're calling me and anyone who enjoyed the game masochistic, just because you didn't particularly enjoy it. You're generalizing your opinion and applying it to everyone else as if it were a fact. That's why I made a jape with the image, rather than try and enter a heated debate - because people have different niches of enjoyment and entertainment.
First off, I can't think of any instance of the game where you take more than half an hour to reach a new bonfire from a previous bonfire. Second, there aren't that many instances where you're going to die in one hit, and they're fairly obvious: giant skeletons, stone giants or other enemies that -clearly- stand out from whatever rabble you've been facing. It's a game that rewards experience, and experience comes from failure - it's a design choice that many people enjoyed (and I find it unlikely that masochism be as common a property to warrant millions of people from the restricted community that is "core" gaming enjoying Dark Souls) because it goes against the standard 'you're always ready to face whatever the game throws at you' (usually afforded by linear games or scaling foes, such as we see in Skyrim).
You should broaden your mind and consider that perhaps what isn't enjoyable to you is to someone else. If someone likes something that you don't, it doesn't make them a freak.
Why are you taking offense? "Masochism" is not an insult. I play games on hard because I enjoy a challenge but I have no issue recognizing that I also enjoy sabotaging myself (turn aim assist off, never exploit AI glitches, avoid shortcuts, never play New Game+).
My point is that people enjoy slamming against the wall the game puts in front of you and eventually overcoming it. Point in case: when there was talk of a gentler difficulty curve people went apeshit. My enjoyment of Dark Souls has zero to do with the matter at hand. I personally don't like it because it has no plot and gives me no reason to progress. I played Risen which kicks you in the nuts every 5 seconds and is just as hard and hardcore as Dark Souls (if not more), but unlike it managed to keep me interested thanks to an interesting story.
Are we clear on the point that "masochist" is not a negative term?
We're clear on us having different definitions for what is masochism and suffering. When I tune up the difficulty or remove handicaps, it's not because I want to suffer - it's because I want a challenge. Similar to how when you're good at something like tennis you get absolutely zero joy in wrecking an opponent because he's new to the sport - the challenge needs to be somewhat close to your own skill level. And with Dark Souls, that is the feeling that I got: it progressively prepared me for harder challenges, and at no point did I feel so overwhelmed or overwhelming that the game was impossibly difficult or ridiculously easy (except, perhaps, for the Ornstein and Smough battle).
As to the plot - yes, it's minimal. So was Demon's Souls. And they're two of the most acclaimed titles this generation. Games don't need stories, they need good gameplay - if you want a game with a story, there are -plenty- of those, but it's not by that venue that Dark Souls will be considered a good game. Your first complaint had nothing to do with its lack of a plot or what you consider to be no reason to progress (I personally found the leveling, items, new spells and bosses plenty to keep me itching to play more) - you merely thought it was too difficult, or difficult in an unfair manner. Which is somewhat ironic, considering you liked Risen - which while a decent game was, at best, a gem in the rough - which was harder in a much more unfair way and often due to bad controls/bugs.
Dark Souls minimalist atmosphere complements the game in a way no narrator voice-over, plot or plethora of NPCs could. It channels the myth of the hero with minimal interaction: within a few minutes you know that this place requires you to save it. I don't know if it's due to I having grown with games from the NES era, where stories were non-existent, but Dark Souls has the same appeal that The Legend of Zelda: you play it because the game's good, it has nice controls, superb level design and you never feel like you're just chugging along to discover more of the plot, an issue all too common in story-driven games.
I reiterate that I am not against stories in video games, and I've in fact played some games solely because of them, but in no way is it a core element of the genre, or even necessary.
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