@chaplainDMK said:
Dunno, I wouldn't call that pretentious. I mean if movie symbolism is pretentious than what can you really even do at the end.
Symbolism should be tied into a movie and relevant to the plot.
Random ox slaying is not relevant to the plot. It's symbolism for the sake of symbolism - to make itself seem deeper for the sake of seeming deeper.
For something to not be pretentious, it can be symbolic, but not just for the sake of having symbolism. You can have symbolism without it being completely random and seemingly irrelevant - in fact, that's the way symbolism is usually done.
@LoG-Sacrament said:
"characterized by assumption of dignity or importance"
Shoving symbolism, that is 100% unrelated to the plot (killing of the ox), in the audience's face = pretentious. The majority of movie-goers aren't movie analysts, they aren't searching for symbolism in their movie going experience. If the Ox were relevant to the plot in any way, then it would be less pretentious, but there just so happens to be a ceremonial slaughter of an animal when he kills Kurtz - so it comes across as obtuse. I couldn't care less about the killing of animals - I eat them. Killing a living being for a film is pretentious. If you don't understand why, I can explain it more in depth - though I feel like this should be fairly obvious where I'm coming from.
the movie isn't about plot so whether or not a sequence has anything to do with it is irrelevant. it's not a thriller; apocalypse now is a series of horrific scenes strung together only by a trip down a river. the ox is relevant to the themes of the movie so it's in there. and by your standard, symbolism could never be part of the plot anyway if the ox isn't.
There is loads of symbolism tied to the plot in Apocalypse Now. For example, the helicopter scene with the music. It's symbolic, exciting, and actually is relevant to the plot of the movie - it's not symbolism just for the sake of having symbolism. See the difference between that and the ritual ox killing?
A movie can't attempt to be art just for the sake of art - it has to have a little bit of everything for everyone to keep it grounded. Begotten, for example, is an extremely pretentious film because it's attempting art just for the sake, with no entertainment value for the common viewer. For something to NOT be pretentious, it has to attempt to be appealing on more than just the grounds of its artistic factor.
I'm not saying Apocalypse Now is a pretentious movie - I'm simply saying it's an amazing movie with some pretentious moments. Notice the other 3 movies talked about in this thread contain loads of symbolism without actually focusing on the symbolism themselves?
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