Xbox Live: Why am I being forced to pay, to play games online?

[QUOTE="blackace"][QUOTE="RECON64bit"]

I really do not understand why I am being charged to play video games online. I understand Xbox Live has other features that we have to pay for but, I have no use for ESPN or facebook on Xbox 360. The only thing I want to do is play online, I couldn't care less about these extra feautures or Xbox live parties. Why can't online be free except foreverything else like Parties, ESPN and all the other useless garbage. I see no justification for raising the price either.

I've already invested a lot in the Xbox so I'm not gonna sell it, but I definately won't be getting their next console if they continue with this practice.

What is Microsoft's justification for charging me to play video games online?

Also this is on system wars because i'm pretty sure a post like this on Xbox forums would get me reported, and/or banned.

Shewgenja

They are? The last game I recall being taken off from Live was one from the original Xbox.

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="blackace"] Their justification is to make a profit and keeps the servers that hold all the content up, running and available 24/7 for you to use. Sure PSN is free and that's why Sony continues to lose money from it on a daily basis. Sony actually pays a network vendor to keep PSN up and running. Sony doesn't regulate the various servers you play on. So if you can't play online and the server is owned buy the publisher, Sony can't help you. Also, these dedicated server can be shut down by publishers anytime they feel like it. No one is forcing your to pay. You don't want to pay, then don't. The money also goes to lease the building space where all these servers are stored. iAtrocious

They are? The last game I recall being taken off from Live was one from the original Xbox.

Didnt Halo Wars go down?

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"] Games are taken offline on Live all the time..Shewgenja

They are? The last game I recall being taken off from Live was one from the original Xbox.

Didnt Halo Wars go down?

No.

Oh, okay I stand corrected then.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

Your going to blame Microsoft for advertising their products so much that your friends bought it, as well?

Sheesh, there ARElimits, people.

iAtrocious

So, now you're also claiming that the 360 has no competition? What happened to the PS3, the PC and the Wii?

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="blackace"] Their justification is to make a profit and keeps the servers that hold all the content up, running and available 24/7 for you to use. Sure PSN is free and that's why Sony continues to lose money from it on a daily basis. Sony actually pays a network vendor to keep PSN up and running. Sony doesn't regulate the various servers you play on. So if you can't play online and the server is owned buy the publisher, Sony can't help you. Also, these dedicated server can be shut down by publishers anytime they feel like it. No one is forcing your to pay. You don't want to pay, then don't. The money also goes to lease the building space where all these servers are stored. iAtrocious

No one's forcing you to pay for it. You could just do what I do, and play singleplayer games and ignore multiplayer.

almost all games are p2p so no server upkeep.

freakshowfreak

No server upkeep, really? Interesting. You sure do know your stuff.

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"] Games are taken offline on Live all the time..Darkslayer16

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"]

almost all games are p2p so no server upkeep.

thecapsaicinkid

No server upkeep, really? Interesting. You sure do know your stuff.

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

The__Havoc

but I guess we are paying for all the faulty systems they made :P

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Coercion can be pretty potent..especially when your friends are on the 360 as well.HuusAsking

Your going to blame Microsoft for advertising their products so much that your friends bought it, as well?

Sheesh, there ARElimits, people.

[QUOTE="thecapsaicinkid"]

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"]

almost all games are p2p so no server upkeep.

HuusAsking

No server upkeep, really? Interesting. You sure do know your stuff.

Listen the only reason Sony isn't charging for PSN is because there is no way they could compete with live one to one, so Sony did what any smart business would do they undercut their competition. This is why you now have PSN+ They need to make money on their online infrastructure somehow.

Anyone that believe it doesn't cost money to run a service like XBL or even PSN doesn't know what they are talking about.

Servers need to be maintained, people need to maintain them, storage needs to be added as well as eventually new features. MS and Sony are tackling the problem in different ways. MS decides to charge you, Sony doesn't. Guess who's hurting less?

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="theuncharted34"]err.. really? ...theuncharted34

Well, I'm not here to judge. But the game is mediocre. :)

It's surprizing how many casuals I know picked up a 360. When I tell them PSN is free; their face goes all blank and I suddenly have their attention.
I kid you not: In 2010 I watched 8 of my 360 lovin-friends sell their consoles off and buy a PS3. That's just about every guy I regularily hang out with. In 2009 it was just me and one of guy in the group who had one.

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

freakshowfreak

but I guess we are paying for all the faulty systems they made :P

Game royalties is a different sector of the gaming branch. You want all your individual sectors to be profitable. Not have some pull the overall weight while others are not financialy viable at all. Yup you were paying for the faulty system they made 8 years ago when LIVE debuted right?

But hey if you want we could have console gamers buy and host their own servers like they do on PC. Oh wait you thought that PC gaming was free too? Nope someone out there is hosting that server for you to play on. You may not be paying but someone is indeed paying.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

Your going to blame Microsoft for advertising their products so much that your friends bought it, as well?

Sheesh, there ARElimits, people.

heretrix

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"]

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

The__Havoc

but I guess we are paying for all the faulty systems they made :P

Game royalties is a different sector of the gaming branch. You want all your individual sectors to be profitable. Not have some pull the overall weight while others are not financialy viable at all. Yup you were paying for the faulty system they made 8 years ago when LIVE debuted right?

But hey if you want we could have console gamers buy and host their own servers like they do on PC. Oh wait you thought that PC gaming was free too? Nope someone out there is hosting that server for you to play on. You may not be paying but someone is indeed paying.

srry but a lot of console games don't have dedicated servers so that point fails.

plus if I want I can dedicate enough of my fiber connection to host a server.

but what do you pay for let's see

1 partychat only for gold ( crappy sound and you host it on your own connection)

2 video chat

3 facebook

4 twitter

5 espn

6 sky player

all are normal free pc options whoohoo yeah guess those are also great things to pay for......... and who uses

oh and oh yeah you pay to play most games on a p2p base (whoopty dooo)

but with all the advertisement on xbox live these all should be free

and yes you can check out demo's why so they can sell em it aint a bad thing but it's mainly advertisement for you to spend more money

so annyone enlighten me why do I pay? what good quality service do they offer that is worth it ?

srry but a lot of console games don't have dedicated servers so that point fails.

plus if I want I can dedicate enough of my fiber connection to host a server.

but what do you pay for let's see

1 partychat only for gold ( crappy sound and you host it on your own connection)

2 video chat

3 facebook

4 twitter

5 espn

6 sky player

all are normal free pc options whoohoo yeah guess those are also great things to pay for......... and who uses

oh and oh yeah you pay to play most games on a p2p base (whoopty dooo)

but with all the advertisement on xbox live these all should be free

and yes you can check out demo's why so they can sell em it aint a bad thing but it's mainly advertisement for you to spend more money

so annyone enlighten me why do I pay? what good quality service do they offer that is worth it ?

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"] they earn enough with royalty's on each game they sell and just like I said most games are p2p so they use the users internet to host on

but I guess we are paying for all the faulty systems they made :P

HuusAsking

Game royalties is a different sector of the gaming branch. You want all your individual sectors to be profitable. Not have some pull the overall weight while others are not financialy viable at all. Yup you were paying for the faulty system they made 8 years ago when LIVE debuted right?

But hey if you want we could have console gamers buy and host their own servers like they do on PC. Oh wait you thought that PC gaming was free too? Nope someone out there is hosting that server for you to play on. You may not be paying but someone is indeed paying.

Why don't they charge? Um because when PSN came out in its infancy it was very very very underwhelming and it would have just turned more people away from the system. Look what MS did with the original Xbox. They swallowed a lot of money to build a user base. Same thing happens in sports when crappy teams over pay for good free agents.

Sony gonna have to swallow the bill while they build up the PSN community.

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"]

srry but a lot of console games don't have dedicated servers so that point fails.

plus if I want I can dedicate enough of my fiber connection to host a server.

but what do you pay for let's see

1 partychat only for gold ( crappy sound and you host it on your own connection)

2 video chat

3 facebook

4 twitter

5 espn

6 sky player

all are normal free pc options whoohoo yeah guess those are also great things to pay for......... and who uses

oh and oh yeah you pay to play most games on a p2p base (whoopty dooo)

but with all the advertisement on xbox live these all should be free

and yes you can check out demo's why so they can sell em it aint a bad thing but it's mainly advertisement for you to spend more money

so annyone enlighten me why do I pay? what good quality service do they offer that is worth it ?

clone01

He should be commended, not questioned.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Game royalties is a different sector of the gaming branch. You want all your individual sectors to be profitable. Not have some pull the overall weight while others are not financialy viable at all. Yup you were paying for the faulty system they made 8 years ago when LIVE debuted right?

But hey if you want we could have console gamers buy and host their own servers like they do on PC. Oh wait you thought that PC gaming was free too? Nope someone out there is hosting that server for you to play on. You may not be paying but someone is indeed paying.

The__Havoc

Why don't they charge? Um because when PSN came out in its infancy it was very very very underwhelming and it would have just turned more people away from the system. Look what MS did with the original Xbox. They swallowed a lot of money to build a user base. Same thing happens in sports when crappy teams over pay for good free agents.

Sony gonna have to swallow the bill while they build up the PSN community.

You forgot the point of the thread, MS is forcing him. I think he's one of the chosen few that has a guard from MS stationed at his house to make sure he pays. In fact, he is doing something heroic right now, while the guard is on break, he is on System Wars telling everyone how horrible XBL is.

He should be commended, not questioned.

heretrix

if he wants to play online he doesn't have a choice does he so he has to ( forced ) to buy xbox live gold account..... or do you know a free alternative..

( forced also means no choice and in this case if he wants to play online he doesn't have a other choice then to pay )

but maybe we should make the question simpler

"Why do I have to pay to play games online ??"

because a lot of people in this thread don't understand the way the op intended the word forced in the question

so new updated question

"WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY GAMES ONLINE WITH AN XBOX??"

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

You forgot the point of the thread, MS is forcing him. I think he's one of the chosen few that has a guard from MS stationed at his house to make sure he pays. In fact, he is doing something heroic right now, while the guard is on break, he is on System Wars telling everyone how horrible XBL is.

He should be commended, not questioned.

freakshowfreak

if he wants to play online he doesn't have a choice does he so he has to ( forced ) to buy xbox live gold account..... or do you know a free alternative..

( forced also means no choice and in this case if he wants to play online he doesn't have a other choice then to pay )

but maybe we should make the question simpler

"Why do I have to pay to play games online ??"

because a lot of people in this thread don't understand the way the op intended the word forced in the question

so new updated question

"WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY GAMES ONLINE WITH AN XBOX??"

PS. Not being hypocritical here. I'm trying to gague as what point something no longer become psychologiically "socially optional" and becomes "socially necessary" (otherwise, as Smash Mouth sings, "You might as well be walking on the Sun").

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

You forgot the point of the thread, MS is forcing him. I think he's one of the chosen few that has a guard from MS stationed at his house to make sure he pays. In fact, he is doing something heroic right now, while the guard is on break, he is on System Wars telling everyone how horrible XBL is.

He should be commended, not questioned.

freakshowfreak

if he wants to play online he doesn't have a choice does he so he has to ( forced ) to buy xbox live gold account..... or do you know a free alternative..

( forced also means no choice and in this case if he wants to play online he doesn't have a other choice then to pay )

but maybe we should make the question simpler

"Why do I have to pay to play games online ??"

because a lot of people in this thread don't understand the way the op intended the word forced in the question

so new updated question

"WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY GAMES ONLINE WITH AN XBOX??"

As to your revised question "Why do we have to pay to play online on the Xbox?"

Answer: Because Microsoft doesn't want to give it to you free. They provide a service and they wish to be compensated. It doesn't matter if it's free elsewhere, it isn't on XBL. You either deal with it or go elsewhere. I'm not a fan myself, but I understand, they don't want to take the loss so it goes to the consumer.

It's one of many things in life that companies make you pay for. You can get water for free, but I'll be damned if the bottled water industry isn't doing fantastically well.

Get a ps3 or pc if you hate the price of live so much.

Maintaining a online service isn't free, you do realise this?Evolution-X0

Will you guys stop repeating this? The tc just wants to play the game he bought online. That's all. He doesn't want all those jingle mingle crap gold offers. He wants to play online and Microsoft is not maintaining any online service for that. It's the players who are the servers.

[QUOTE="Evolution-X0"]Maintaining a online service isn't free, you do realise this?edidili

Will you guys stop repeating this? The tc just wants to play the game he bought online. That's all. He doesn't want all those jingle mingle crap gold offers. He wants to play online and Microsoft is not maintaining any online service for that. It's the players who are the servers.

A profit.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="Evolution-X0"]Maintaining a online service isn't free, you do realise this?heretrix

Will you guys stop repeating this? The tc just wants to play the game he bought online. That's all. He doesn't want all those jingle mingle crap gold offers. He wants to play online and Microsoft is not maintaining any online service for that. It's the players who are the servers.

A profit.

I guess I'lle have to repeat it. The guy just wants to play online in the game he bought, hosting the servers by himself. He doesn't want the XBL, facebook or whatever shiny things it has.

"WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY GAMES ONLINE WITH AN XBOX??"

freakshowfreak

You know the answer, why do you keep asking the same thing over and over?

The ONLY reason for anything being priced the way it is, is because the company decided that price point was the best for their profits. Do you not understand this?Microsoft charge for Live for the exact same reason Sony don't charge for PSN, because they decided it would be best for their profits. I know that's a difficult concept, Sony make PSN free because it makes them the most money overall. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

Some facts for you

1. XBL and PSN cost MILLIONS per year to maintain.

2. P2P is not the same as no dedicated servers, most games are not P2P and are client/server, just with the user hosting the server.

3. You have not paid for the upkeep of Live with the money you paid for your game, the money you paid for your broadband connection, your cable provider or any other daft links you care to make.

cuz it offers teh uniqez s3rvice wich no1 else cn possibli compete with.

pretty much because they want your cash.

pretty much because they want your cash.

firefluff3

And Sony don't?

Man you are naive.

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"]

"WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY GAMES ONLINE WITH AN XBOX??"

thecapsaicinkid

You know the answer, why do you keep asking the same thing over and over?

The ONLY reason for anything being priced the way it is, is because the company decided that price point was the best for their profits. Do you not understand this?Microsoft charge for Live for the exact same reason Sony don't charge for PSN, because they decided it would be best for their profits. I know that's a difficult concept, Sony make PSN free because it makes them the most money overall. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

Some facts for you

1. XBL and PSN cost MILLIONS per year to maintain.

2. P2P is not the same as no dedicated servers, most games are not P2P and are client/server, just with the user hosting the server.

3. You have not paid for the upkeep of Live with the money you paid for your game, the money you paid for your broadband connection, your cable provider or any other daft links you care to make.

So why not go the PC routeHuusAsking

You're asking me to try and guess why Microsoft thought they could make more money with Live being the way it is, rather than being more like the PC experience of online gaming? Or are you saying, I know better than Microsoft, I could make them more money?

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

The__Havoc

What service costs money to run? P2P costs nothing lol

[QUOTE="freakshowfreak"]

"WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY GAMES ONLINE WITH AN XBOX??"

thecapsaicinkid

1. XBL and PSN cost several hundreds of dollars per year to maintain.

2. P2P is not the same as no dedicated servers, most games are not P2P and are client/server, just with the user hosting the server.

3. You have not paid for the upkeep of Live with the money you paid for your game, the money you paid for your broadband connection, your cable provider or any other daft links you care to make.

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

Fusiondonut

What service costs money to run? P2P costs nothing lol

I'm not going to get into a discussion with someone who doesn't even know what P2P is.

[QUOTE="Fusiondonut"]

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

thecapsaicinkid

What service costs money to run? P2P costs nothing lol

I'm not going to get into a discussion with someone who doesn't even know what P2P is.

[QUOTE="thecapsaicinkid"]

[QUOTE="Fusiondonut"]

What service costs money to run? P2P costs nothing lol

HuusAsking

I'm not going to get into a discussion with someone who doesn't even know what P2P is.

Firstly, how much Live costs to run is beside the point, it's irrelevant. It is what it is. I've already told you why they charge what they do (which was the original question the TC asked).

If you really want to know the yearly costs to run a service like Live or PSN I'd suggest you Google it. I know you probably think it's a couple of servers in a warehouse with a handful of staff and that's fine. I guess that's a little better than the 'P2P LOLOMG' brigade who appear to know how to create an online infrastructure which doesn't cost a penny to run and has no external services where everyone's console can just magically matchmake with each other purely by being connected to the internet.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="Evolution-X0"]Maintaining a online service isn't free, you do realise this?heretrix

Will you guys stop repeating this? The tc just wants to play the game he bought online. That's all. He doesn't want all those jingle mingle crap gold offers. He wants to play online and Microsoft is not maintaining any online service for that. It's the players who are the servers.

A profit.

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Because it costs money to run the service. Just ask Sony the guys losing money on PSN.

Fusiondonut

What service costs money to run? P2P costs nothing lol

Then tell me how PSN LOSES money genius? A handful of games that use dedicated servers run you millions into the red? :lol:

I'm talking about going the PC route and letting dedicated gamers set up or rent dedicated servers. To alleviate security concerns, use authentication, signed apps, and so on.HuusAsking

And how would we be able to do this on PSN/XBL's closed networks? They are not open networks like the PC. You really think that console gamers would be able to setup and pay for a dedicated gaming server like PC Gamers? :lol:

I would laugh even harder at a console gamer going through all that trouble doing that and not even be able to play custom game types on custom servers ect. Besides we all know the shelf life for most console online games is much much shorter then a PC online game.

Maybe I can enlighten a few of you here as to why people pay for online play with XBL.

I'm not very tech savvy, but I understand the difference between P2P and dedicated servers (er.....I think :P ). The main reason I pay MS and use Gold is because from what I've seen, Microsoft's platform has a consistent online standard for all it's games whereas the PS3 doesn't. As it's P2P, the online infrastructure has to be built into the game, and from a few game that I've played on the PS3, one game's online functionality can be designed entirely different from another's. Just like the PC.

When I play a console, I'm playing partly for convenience and ease of use. Live affords me this, as I know no matter what game I stick in the tray, the online will always work the same and be consistent. I also always get great connection speeds with Live but with the PS3 it can vary greatly, and also find the interface of Live to be much more user friendly and easy to use.

All that to me is worth the cost.