The Real Power of the X1

The real power of XB1 is 900P cutscenes? LMAO. self ownage as always lems

http://gearnuke.com/crytek-ceo-ryse-wouldnt-have-run-at-1080p-on-ps4-decision-was-choice-not-hurdle/

According to him, things would have been no different, had the game been in development for the PS4. The decision to go with a native resolution of 900p was purely by choice, and not the result of a technical hurdle.

Keep in mind, if he said anything remotely negative about developing on Microsoft's platform, they would have his ass. Even if there are fairly noticeable discrepancies in power between both consoles, We won't hear about it from the Developers unless they're strictly developing 3rd party and not within a contract, NDA, etc.

Cry some more. Don't tell me, show me; and so far nothing on the ps4 has distinguished itself. How much does it matter in the first place? Everyone has their preference and mine is a superior multiplayer and online service, Kinect, and multimedia features on the X1 outweigh what the ps4 has going for it.

That 6 GB is from another storage pool e.g. the main DDR3 memory and X1 only has 8 GB of DDR3 with less for actual games.

Sony PS4's GCN also has PRT feature, but it doesn't have two speed memory pools.

For games, both consoles has about 5 to 6 GB of RAM.

The gap between the boxes are minor when compared to the PC's flagship GPUs vs mid-range GPUs.

Not for all cases.

For example

http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaijin-games-on-why-war-thunder-isnt-coming-to-xbox-one/

How much more powerful?

AY: It depends what you're doing. GPU, like 40 precent more powerful. DDR5 is basically 50 per cent more powerful than DDR3, but the memory write [performance] is bigger on Xbox One so it depends on what you're doing.

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For the gap between the two boxes

http://www.videogamer.com/news/xbox_one_and_ps4_have_no_advantage_over_the_other_says_redlynx.html

Speaking to VideoGamer.com at E3, Ilvessuo said: " Obviously we have been developing this game for a while and you can see the comparisons. I would say if you know how to use the platform they are both very powerful. I don't see a benefit over the other with any of the consoles."

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http://www.videogamer.com/xboxone/metal_gear_solid_5_the_phantom_pain/news/ps4_and_xbox_one_power_difference_is_minimal_says_kojima.html

"The difference is small, and I don't really need to worry about it," he said, suggesting versions for Xbox One and PS4 won't be dramatically different.

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http://gamingbolt.com/ubisoft-explains-the-difference-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-versions-of-watch_dogs

"Of course, the Xbox One isnt to be counted out. We asked Guay how the Xbox One version of Watch_Dogs would be different compared to the PC and PS4 versions of the game, to which he replied that, The Xbox One is a powerful platform, as of now we do not foresee a major difference in on screen result between the PS4 and the Xbox One. Obviously since we are still working on pushing the game on these new consoles, we are still doing R&D."

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link

"We're still very much in the R&D period, that's what I call it, because the hardware is still new," Guay answered. "It's obvious to us that its going to take a little while before we can get to the full power of those machines and harness everything. But, even now we realise that both of them have comparable power, and for us thats good, but everyday it changes almost. Were pushing it and were going to continue doing that until [Watch Dogs] ship date."

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http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/1/4580380/carmack-on-next-gen-console-hardware-very-close-very-good

Carmack on next-gen console hardware: 'very close,' 'very good'

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http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaijin-games-on-why-war-thunder-isnt-coming-to-xbox-one/

How much more powerful?

AY: It depends what youre doing. GPU, like 40 per cent more powerful. DDR5 is basically 50 per cent more powerful than DDR3, but the memory write [performance] is bigger on Xbox One so it depends on what youre doing.

How is that going to translate to on-screen results for the kinds of games you want to make? So to optimise War Thunder on both consoles you could hypothetically make a better, prettier version on PS4?

AY: Yep.

KY: Probably yes. But again, that's not a very big deal.

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//The effects of memory write performance

http://www.edge-online.com/news/power-struggle-the-real-differences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

Xbox One does, however, boast superior performance to PS4 in other ways. Lets say you are using procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces that is, using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU Xbox One will be likely be faster, said one developer

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/768-shader-pitcairn-review,3196-5.html

PS; X1's 204 GB/s 32 MB ESRAM + 68 GB/s DDR3 combo has narrower performance options when compared to a prototype 7850 with 12 CUs and larger GDDR5 memory pool i.e. X1 needs special treatment for it's ESRAM.

The same War Thunder quote, really? That's like 50th time you have used that now.

I'd rather just wait and see the results of this supposed "Secret-Sauce," in comparison to flatout better specs.

Arguing about this shit in the meantime is just so pointless.

Yes and is 140 Gb/s to 150 GB/s that is what the xbox one will get best case scenario already confirmed by MS.

There is 204GB/s crap.. 140GB/s to 150Gb/s best case scenario,so yeah PS4 still faster.

One out of every eight cycles is a bubble, so that's how you get the combined 204GB/s as the raw peak that we can really achieve over the ESRAM. And then if you say what can you achieve out of an application - we've measured about 140-150GB/s for ESRAM. That's real code running.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview

MS it self is telling you that what you will get is 14 to 150 GB/s not 204GB/s so yeah drop that number is not real or achievable.

You have fast ram hitting slow ram,on PS4 all is fast period,no problems nightmares or headaches.

Digital Foundry: And you have CPU read access to the ESRAM, right? This wasn't available on Xbox 360 eDRAM.

Nick Baker: We do but it's very slow.

One thing to keep in mind when looking at comparative game resolutions is that currently the Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode. The current reservation provides strong isolation between the title and the system and simplifies game development (strong isolation means that the system workloads, which are variable, won't perturb the performance of the game rendering).

Nick Baker: From a power/efficiency standpoint as well, fixed functions are more power-friendly on fixed function units. We put data compression on there as well, so we have LZ compression/decompression and also motion JPEG decode which helps with Kinect. So there's a lot more than to the Data Move Engines than moving from one block of memory to another.

The sad part is that many of the craps the xbox one has is to actually help Kinect or the crappy memory choice they make.

Killzone not only looks better,it has better particle effect better animation online and offline,is 1080p Ryse is 900p and online is 60 FPS while Ryse is 30.

Oh did i mention that Killzone is what 30 times more open than Ryse and that is just by the videos show i wonder how much open it can be.

Crytek could not do 1080p on very enclosed environments,i wonder how much worse it would be if they would make Crysis which is much more open,probably 720p is BF4 is something to go by.

@ronvalencia

http://gearnuke.com/crytek-ceo-ryse-wouldnt-have-run-at-1080p-on-ps4-decision-was-choice-not-hurdle/

According to him, things would have been no different, had the game been in development for the PS4. The decision to go with a native resolution of 900p was purely by choice, and not the result of a technical hurdle.

Do you know what damage control is.?

How it wasn't a technical hurdle when the game polygon count was drop from 150,000 polygons to 85,000 and resolution drop from 1080p to 900p.?

The Order was always 1920x800 not 1080p and the lower,in fact The Order is not even upscale that is what you will get.

Funny thing is they are not saying the PS4 would have run the games as it is now at 900p,they are simply saying that they would have chose to run the game at 900p to use the extra power save by having lower resolution for actual visuals.

Mind you a 900p Ryse on PS4 would look way better than a 900p Ryse on xbox one,specially if both games are lock at the same frame rate.

Secret Sauce is real!! Cows are owned!! LOL!! Too bad Cows!!

Ryse graphics > Killzone Shadow Fall graphics

BTW, getting both games at launch. I'm not bias. I just tell it like it is, and Cows got OWNED BIGTIME!!

Herpderp.

That is not the biggest problem he has,the biggest is actually understanding what 40% freaking mean,he quote the number as if it was something bad..lol

40% more speed on my car than his would actually put my car at 100 MPH while his goes at 60 MPH,if my car is 40% faster is even worse.

You see how he quote 204Gb/s well that number was already shutdown by MS it self,MS stated that only 140 to 150 GB/s could be achieve,and those are MS number you know for sure they are painting the very best case scenario,so in instances it could be even lower than 140GB/s.

@tormentos:

Yes and is 140 Gb/s to 150 GB/s that is what the xbox one will get best case scenario already confirmed by MS.

There is 204GB/s crap.. 140GB/s to 150Gb/s best case scenario, so yeah PS4 still faster.

Offcourse it's crap. For both PS4 and X1, I used theoretical bandwidth numbers for this topic since all memory types/access has to carry some overheads.

I'm aware of X1's 140-to-150 GB/s for ESRAM and 50-to-55 GB/s DDR3.

But from http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaijin-games-on-why-war-thunder-isnt-coming-to-xbox-one/

How much more powerful?

AY: It depends what youre doing. GPU, like 40 per cent more powerful. DDR5 is basically 50 per cent more powerful than DDR3, but the memory write [performance] is bigger on Xbox One so it depends on what youre doing.

How is that going to translate to on-screen results for the kinds of games you want to make? So to optimise War Thunder on both consoles you could hypothetically make a better, prettier version on PS4?

AY: Yep.

KY: Probably yes. But again, thats not a very big deal.

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When X1's 50-to-55 GB/s DDR3 combined with "DDR5 is basically 50 per cent more powerful than DDR3", the PS4's effective memory performance (read and write) is not pretty i.e. X1 still has faster memory writes.

You have bee show,the problem is you don't want to see.

Killzone = 1080p open world.

Ryse = 900p enclosed game.

You have been shown you just refuse to see.

Hey online 1080p 60 FPS,and look better than anything on xbox one,Ryse 900p 30 FPS...But but show me...

30 times more open?????

How would you know something like this???

I love your posts they are full of the most BS I have ever seen here in SW.

Post on Sony Fan.

I don't think killzone is open world, the environments are much more open however.

Ryse looks about as linear as a straight line tho based on the singleplayer gameplay that's been leaked.

Actually, your car would only be going 84 mph. apparently you don't even know what 40% more of something is...

The PS4 is getting 172 GB/s out of the 176GB/s it has,the xbox one gets only 140 to 150GB/s,so yeah that GDDR5 is paying well.

The xbox one has 1.18 TF,the PS4 has 1.84.

Advantage 660Gflops.

If you actually take 660Gflop[s out of the xbox one,you end with 520 Gflops actually less than half of the xbox total power.

To put things into perspective the PS4 660Gflops is = to more than half of the total of the xbox one power,and some how you think is nothing.

@

As shown from the prototype 7850, there's no "secret sauce " when 12 CUs has 153.6 B/s memory bandwidth e.g. less concurrent access issues with TMUs and ROPs.

PS; From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

For example, consider a typical game scenario where the render target is 32bpp [bits per pixel] and blending is disabled, and the depth/stencil surface is 32bpp with Z [depth] enabled. That amount to 12 bytes of bandwidth needed per pixel drawn (eight bytes write, four bytes read). At our peak fill-rate of 13.65GPixels/s that adds up to 164GB/s of real bandwidth that is needed which pretty much saturates our ESRAM bandwidth

Read and write 16 ROPS has "164 GB/s of real bandwidth". PS4's 32 ROPs would be almost pointless and 7970's 32 ROPS (backed by larger memory bandwidth) says Hi.

Each render pass contributes to the frame's render time.

From http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems/gpugems_ch28.html

to balance sony machine CERNY suggest 14 cu for graphical and 4 for sound and offloading the cpu and again the x1 has 16cu 2 for failure 2 used for later using 12cu at the moment

It's your interpretation for 172 GB/s.

The statement "Memory operates at around 172GB/s" doesn't say much i.e. it's the same as 5870's memory operates around 153 GB/s.

From http://gamingbolt.com/oddworld-inhabitants-dev-on-ps4s-8gb-gddr5-ram-fact-that-memory-operates-at-172gbs-is-amazing

“It means we don’t have to worry so much about stuff, the fact that the memory operates at around 172GB/s is amazing, so we can swap stuff in and our as fast as we can without it really causing us much grief.

The statement "DDR5 is basically 50 precent more powerful than DDR3" is a direct comparison between two boxes' main memory bandwidth.

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X1's JPEG textures enhance bandwidth transfers can mess any simple memory bandwidth comparisons i.e. it can support 172 GB/s if you rise X1's DDR3 baseline transfers via JPEG textures.

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The prototype 7850 with 768 stream processors at 860Mhz has ~1.32 TFLOPS, which is less than 7850's 1.76 TFLOPS or 7870 GE's 2.56 TFLOPS. PS4's GCN is between 7850 and 7870 GE.

Prototype 7850 (12 CUs), retail 7850 (16 CUs) and 7870 GE (20 CUs) has 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth.

If you think CU array = the entire GPU then you have problems i.e. ALU array doesn't build a GPU or you get Intel Xeon Phi or CELL's SPUs.

I always see "PC games looks better" then shows a modded game... I am a PC gamer and honestly did not played any PC game looks better than Killzone Shadowfall/Forza 5/Second Son

I can only think of crysis 3, battlefield 3 and metro last light really, and even then I'd just call them comparable not outright better.

This next gens going to be alot of fun.

I dont know aside from Metro:LL (which looks really impressive) other games just look look clean and hi-res compared to Killzone:SF

I guess TC is pretty young... I remember back in the late 90's when i first saw graphics scenery in FF7 i was amazing at how pretty it looked.. but outside of the graphics all we got was some character models with horse legs...... there's a huge difference between CGI scenery and gameplay. So basically you can just play avatar on your xbox360 take a picture of it and go like hey look! avatar graphics.

Nope. The playable graphics in Ryse are better than any graphics shown so far on PS4. Therefore, it is very unlikely that the PS4 will have better graphics than XBOX ONE in this upcoming gen. Will they both have comparable graphics? Most likely yes, but the XBOX ONE might have a slight edge due to its more advanced engineering (a.k.a. Secret Sauce).

Graphics this graphics that This gen All I want is for devs to give me brutal legend 2 with the full power of either console and sit back and let me live in piece

@Joedgabe: what does my age have to do with it? Your post makes no sense.

One....subjective. Two....I don't think you're a psychic to make such claims.

KZ does 99% of what Ryse does and more, yet still runs at 1080p and 60fps in MP no less. You are simply blind at this point.

This thread basically sums up the stupidity that is System Wars.

@gpuking: you can remake Modern Warfare of Mario Kart to run in 1080p. Just because it's 1080p, doesn't mean it's gonna look better. It helps of course but at the core you still have art.

Yeah but like I said, KZ has all the fancy effects too if not more so it's certainly a lot more impressive.

@Thunder7151:

Ryse graphics arent better LOL, but you have been pretty good trolling these boards past few days, unfortunetly Ryse doesnt look better, its sad how they had to drop the resolution to 900p to get more quality per pixel and it still doesnt even look as good or run as well as KZ SF that runs at native 1080p(1:1 pixel mapping) at 60 fps on multiplayer(dont get me started on Single player it looks even better)

Im sorry but there is no reason why Ryse shouldnt be in 1080p, its blatant corners had to be cut

You're ignoring the rest of his post which is pretty important to his point.

I hear rumblings that Sony's Console is rushed and a short term goal of a few years. The other reason for this is that Sony didn't have the money to put in this level of sophistication like MS did. Hence the off the shelf parts and the straight up architecture.

The X1 is the real deal. Tflops or not it will be superior in graphics and performance.

Spoken like a true fanboy getting high off of Major Nelson's ass fumes.

No that depends of the top speed of the car,is my speed is 100MPH and his is 40% slower yeah his car runs at 60 MPH.

40% discount on a $100 dollar price land you on 60.

Tighaman

to balance sony machine CERNY suggest 14 cu for graphical and 4 for sound and offloading the cpu and again the x1 has 16cu 2 for failure 2 used for later using 12cu at the moment

Now that is some make out sh** pulled from deed deep down your a$$..

First of all the PS4 has an audio ship for sound,and second there is not 14 + 4 crap what Cerny gave was an example of how developers could do their jobs,

The whole diminished return is bullshit the 7970 destroy the 7790 which has 14 CU the 7970 has more than double.

14 CU use for graphic and 4 CU use for compute will yield this results.

14 CU- for Graphics on PS4

vs

12 CU- for Graphics on the xbox.

End result minor edge graphically.

Huge edge in compute jobs vs the xbox one.

scenario 2.

14- for Graphic on PS4

vs

8 - for Graphics on xbox one

End results.

Huge edge on graphics for the PS4.

Minor edge on compute for the PS4.

No matter how you slice it the xbox one CPU is the same weak CPU the PS4 has,the only difference is the PS4 can use its GPU for compute without hurting the graphics,the xbox one can't do that.

Of course it is.

900p for a more cinematic experience, that's not an exclusive.

KZ looks great, but a lot of old techniques being used to mask flaws and make it look better than it is.

Infamous SS looks ok, looks great in cut scenes however the actual game play graphics will be lacking. And don't bring those particle effect cut scenes into it, the game will not look like that.

Ryse is the graphics king at this point with 50 percent less power and harder to program for hardware than the PS4. Huh?

In other word like always you reply with something completely irrelevant i already showed that the xbox one doesn't have a 7850 prototype and you don't have a single proof but your opinion,i have a quote from MS and several sited including DF the GPU is a 7790 with 2 CU off and lower clock speed with a 10% GPU reservation.

Regardless of memory the xbox one has less usable power than the 7770..

And once again like i told you 660GFlop is more than half of the xbox one total power,so yeah excuse me if i don't believe your out of this world theories..hahaha

Lol wut? 900p in ryse is scaled blur.It's not even close to what the order does which is still a higher resolution and is not scaled being the same as a bluray aspect ratio.

Old techniques masking flaws...hahaha

How can ryse be a graphics king when it can't even achieve the standard resolution of 1080p? And lol,you say all this nonsense and then admit PS4 destroys xbone ...hahah

You should apply at Fox News. Your spin is incredible LMAO

Only a lemnoob would call a 900P small environment 30FPS game graphics king

Only in lems' world can a closed hack 'n slash 900p game running at 30fps beat a full fledged open environment game running at 1080p/60fps. It's not even a fair comparison, KZSF destroys Ryse in every way possible. LOL at the lems mentioning Ryse, it running at 900p at half the frame rate of KZSF already disqualifies it from any nextgen graphics comparisons. You'd have better arguments if you used Forza 5, at least it's running in 1080p even if all its effects are prebaked and its environments look weak.

@killzowned24 said:

@GravityX said:

Of course it is.

900p for a more cinematic experience, that's not an exclusive.

KZ looks great, but a lot of old techniques being used to mask flaws and make it look better than it is.

Infamous SS looks ok, looks great in cut scenes however the actual game play graphics will be lacking. And don't bring those particle effect cut scenes into it, the game will not look like that.

Ryse is the graphics king at this point with 50 percent less power and harder to program for hardware than the PS4. Huh?

Lol wut? 900p in ryse is scaled blur.It's not even close to what the order does which is still a higher resolution and is not scaled being the same as a bluray aspect ratio.

Old techniques masking flaws...hahaha

How can ryse be a graphics king when it can't even achieve the standard resolution of 1080p? And lol,you say all this nonsense and then admit PS4 destroys xbone ...hahah

Haha, I hope you hold on to that gif, because you won't see it the game. Plus with the awesome upscaler being used in X1, 900p will look better that old school 1080p. Hell Digital Foundry couldn't even tell it was running at 900p and upscaled to 1080p at E3. New generation, new tech, new idea's. Get with the program.

I have been an intense gamer for over twenty years, building my own rigs since i was ten. If there is one valuable lesson i have learned from these many years of being obsessive about graphics and hardware specs it is that software matters. Often software even matters more then the hardware itself.

Looking past the fact that there is nothing, absolutely no facts about what GPU the xbox one is using and that rumors and speculations circulate that Playstation 4 has got the better hardware then it, Lets for a moment take a look at the software.

Xbox one uses DirectX 11.2 (Microsoft created Direct X FYI.)

Playstation 4 uses their own opengl version of "Direct X"

Look it up, opengl lost the API wars for a very good reason.

Ask yourself this, if you have a huge gaming rig running on windows 97. How much game are you really going to get?

Same applies with the Playstation, it may or may not have the better hardware but if the software is not there to support it, it wouldn't really matter at all.

These performance claims are the same story for every generation, check out this article: http://reviews.cnet.com/1990-10109_7-6224258-1.html

My coins are on Xbox one.

Not only do you get next gen, you get all the other features to boot.

DF use instrument to make their judgement,and on E3 they were told by one of the representatives of Ryse that the game was in deed 1080p,but back then the characters were 150,000 polygons,funny how after a GPU and CPU upgrade Ryse actually got lower to 900p and characters models were drop by almost half the polygon count to 85k from 150k...lol

Link? Also according to the the latest tweet from Crytek, they said the resolution was the same no change no downgrade, it actually looks better and has better lighting. I'll try to find the gif comparing the part of the opening scene when the soldiers use their shields to block the arrows, it looks way better now than E3 build.

No need arguing with brick walls. Just wait for the games, the reviews and the results. It's stupid arguing with children who already have their minds made up. All they are hearing is the ice cream truck driving around Fantasy Land. The systems will be out soon enough and all the truths and lies will be known.

So Mantle can have 9X draw calls than Direct3D,and openGL actually has similar improvements..

OpenGL is better.

By the way there is a sudden surge in old account that never posted i wonder..mmm