PS4K information (~2x GPU power plus clock increase, new CPU, price, etc)

I'm not complaining, I keep my consoles plus I have money to burn.

Speaking of price it really depends. I don't think they intend this to sell like a true console launch but probably more like a slow burn transition. With that in mind I could see a $499 entry price especially since it isn't required that you trade up to play any of the games on the systems, only the enthusiast will jump for the more expensive models just like PC gamers and over time more people will switch up.

With all the negative ideas flying around it's funny people don't see the potential upside to this. imagine all future PS consoles being 100% BC compatible with the last models. And one of the biggest grips I've seen for PC gamers about consoles is that they hold PC gaming back, well rejoice PC fans, PS4k will unlock the chain that has been holding developers back from creating games that push the higher power that their super charged PCs have yet to utilize.

A PC fan displaying displeasure or objection to this move by Sony is a contradiction all the arguments i've seen about consoles holding PC back all these years. Really confusing and conflicting arguments truth be told.

It's all good lol, I'm the same here. I wish I kept on to more when I was younger but I could always buy them again.

I love it, people saying early adopters are being fucked over, anyone with an xbox one is also being fucked over if you go by that logic.

And if they are doubling the power of the gpu, they are obviously going to use it in all games, also nothing stopping devs patching existing ps4 games to have higher settings.
I'm not sure if Sony is putting these rumours out to just to **** over Nintendo.

Well AMD's Tonga at 28nm has 1.5x better performance to watt compared to the PS4's GPU at the same TDP. Fury Nano's Fiji architecture is even more efficient.

Credit goes to RonValencia for this information.

Until PS5, which will most likely be capable of rendering games at native 4K / 2160p, even though some (many) devs will choose to render some of their games at resolutions ranging from native 1080p to something short of 4K. It'll be a mixed bag, just like Xbox 360 / PS3, and to a lesser extent, current gen.

@Zero_epyon: ok time for my stupid question for today.

is there a difference between blu-ray and blu-ray 4k in terms of the hardware used? or is it just content on a higher capacity disc with a more advanced codec?

in terms of processing power the PS4 is well able for 4K video and the drive, im sure, can read very high capacity blu-ray discs. so it would just need the codec...unless there is something missing hardware wise in the blu-ray drive.

as for the upgrade...2X is not that much really. i wouldnt upgrade my graphics card to one just 2X as powerful for example..waste of money. i would be looking for something 6X-10X as powerful. if i had a PS4 i would also not be inclined to update (i also didnt swap my 3ds for a N3ds). 2X would really just knock out the rough edges on games that had rough edges in the performance department (though the rumor says old games wont use the extra grunt which makes sense). the wii was 2X as powerful as the GC for example. sure there were improvements but it wasnt a massive difference.

What you are saying is only really common sense though. More powerful hardware plays more advanced and better looking games. According to the article, PS4.5 won't be powerful enough to play games that PS4 couldn't handle at all. at most I expect 900p at 30fps on PS4 for the taxing PS4.5 conversions.

Honestly, look at all the advanced PC games that run maxed and ultra setting and then look at the console versions. I would say one could see an advantage but It's not a day and night difference even on hardware that's currently 3x to 4x more power than PS4's/x1s.

Let's do a test to see if I'm off on this or not. Name me the best looking PC game that's a multiplatform game with PS4 and xbox one. Let's test this out!

Exactly, 2x performance is not such an improvement that devs would have trouble optimizing for the weaker PS4. They would simply cut back on visual effects like Global Illumination, shadow quality, particle effects, depth of field, etc.

@scrollinglayers said:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1202462

Related info from a meeting we had yesterday was waiting for it to be approved before posting.

Price is currently $399.99 they were discussing a better CPU which would raise the price to $499.99 we were guaranteed the price will be no higher than $499.99 (He mentioned the CPU upgrade quite a bit almost as if they haven't really decided on a final spec could be a pricing issue.) also there is currently no plan for any type of trade in program for current PS4 users but that could change.

They stated that the GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster. They did not say exactly how fast but that is was running at a higher clock speed while being much smaller than the original.

It will have a 4k blu ray player and will upscale games that are not natively 4k.

Also there was talk of some sort of VR lounge for the media player app which is supposed to be getting a substantial upgrade.

It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance.

It was also made very clear that current games would not be getting any type of performance upgrades by being played on the system and any benefits to older games would come via patch per game and per developer. When asked if this was going to happen the response was "Its a possibility but doubtful with the exception of a handful of games."

We were also given a list of games that will be available at launch that will directly take advantage of the PS4K where the differences are and I will quote him "Significant."

For the PSVR

Eve Valkyrie

Robinson

GT Sport

For the PS4K

Deep Down (Thought this was dead)

GOW4 (This was the exact abbreviation on the sheet I can only assume its god of war 4)

There were more games on the list but these are the ones that stood out to me.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head I'll see if I can get any more information.

If this actually happens, count me in for a new PS4K.

36 CU ...

http://techfrag.com/2016/03/25/amd-polaris-10-gpu-specs-leaked/

Polaris 10 has 36 CU which is 2X over PS4 in terms of CU count.

Still, with its low clock speed and lower number of GCN cores, this particular Polaris 10 GPU did come ahead of the R9 290X which indicates better per clock performance than predecessors. Moreover, the GPU beat Nvidia GTX Titan Black in the benchmark, although the latter features a full GK110 chip.

They are shooting themselves in the foot.

haha thanks, I'll just leave this here.

That's MAX setting on PC vs the ever so out powered PS4.

The comments by 95% of the posters in this thread are comical. THE SEPERATION lol Some people are out of touch with reality 2x power isn't going to alienate anyone, calm down guys.

Where does it implies that?

Little higher than the R9 380 but under the R9380X.

Enough to handle Star Wars battlefront 3 at 1080p Ultra at 60FPS.

I still don't believe this.

A 7950 on 2012 was more than $300 dude alone.

First TPD was an issue,second losses was another in 2012 the 7970 and 7950 were close to top of the line and the 7950 over mid range dude,there is no way with the losses sony had on the PS3 that they would even go there,hell MS went even cheaper and was in no financial problems.

Yep there is no way that Jaguar will cut it for that 380 like GPU.

What i wonder is what will they use.AMD CPU are considerable less expensive than Intel,but i don't see how sony can pull this choosing anything less than a FX 8XXX CPU and TDP on those is considerable higher than the PS4 CPU wayyyyyyyy higher.

The "games that are not natively 4k"

Hmmmmm... This is going to be interesting. That's for sure.

I just hope MS follows suit. Preferably before this so called PS4k.

OK guys, honestly, all SW BS aside, anyone who buys into this is an idiot. The PS4 and Xbox One, have both had incredibly poor first party exclusive support, PS4 especially. Sony and Microsoft have both let 3rd parties carry them, and have offered their player bases NOTHING worthwhile, that they couldn't get anywhere else. They've invested nothing into giving us good exclusive games, and yet now, they want us to invest another $400-500 into updated versions of these game-less systems?

Sorry guys, but no one should be supporting this. People keep talking about what is going to cause the industry to crash, blaming mobile, DLC/season passes, digital only, always online, ect.. but no, been expected to pay $400-500 every three years for an updated system, that is what kills the industry, and don't go thinking "no this'll be a one time only thing", because if this sells well, you can be damn sure before the gen is out, we'll see a 3rd and maybe even 4th version, are you really OK with the possibility of been expected to spend almost $2000 to keep your PS4 up to date, when you could spend half that on a single PC that'll outlive it?

Really surprising, but sounds good. Though this was what the PS4/X1 should have been in the first place, at least the GPU power. And will the GDDR5 get a bandwidth upgrade with the new GPU? It should. Let's hope the CPU at least gets a good upclocking, 2.2GHZ maybe? They shouldn't sell the console for more than 399 since it's just a mid gen upgrade.

@howmakewood said:

I like how this is going to support the PSVR, remember Sony proudly saying there's already over 38million PSVR ready devices on customers?

LMAO So true

Console market =/= PC market strike one.

Strike 2 is that the experience on the ps4.5 will be better and it's only been ~2.5 years

The fact that the upgrade is tangible aka you can visually see it, is the problem. Unless a trade-in occurs, a person who bought the PS4 is going to feel conned thinking it would last em 6-10 years or so like the previous iterations did. Consoles should improve, but this isn't the mobile or PC market. Consoles are seen as a long term investment, but the new PS4K and Nintendo NX (rumor says more powerful than PS4) specs state otherwise. Many gamers pick consoles over PC precisely to avoid the headaches and costs with upgrading. Not to buy a new console every 2.5 years.

@scrollinglayers: I honestly just do not see this happening. IT IS POSSIBLE!

Like PC games that run on HIGH END GPU cards, compared to the MINIMUM GPU cards. The GAME is the same just the settings change form LOW to HIGH!

So IF Graphics are important to you then this would be a great deal. If not then sticking to the PS4 will be fine. The games will be the same only the graphics will be different.

When the PS4.5 is actually released it will indeed be three years since the PS4 was released.

A trade-in program doesn't even need to happen. You could just easily sell your current PS4 on Craigslist/Ebay to help pay for the PS4K. My White Destiny PS4 bundle will easily sell for $250 - $300 on the used market especially given its complete with box.

Yeah...? They're not going to gimp this new hardware with keeping the memory amount and speed the same.

X86 is not a 1:1 thing. It is on PC, but the Ps4 isn't a PC, it's got its own api and the games are all coded for its specific hardware. That's like saying the Wii's cpu is the same as the 360's Xenon or the cell because they're all power PC.

Games on the ps4 are coded and optimized for the jaguar architecture, switching it would **** up the old games.

@osan0: The problem isn't the processing power, but it's missing some hardware to decode the new HDCP 2.2 (High bandwidth digital content protection), which is only on HDMI 2.0. The PS4 has the older 1.4, and this cannot be upgraded through software. The HDMI 2.0 also supports faster transfer speeds which is needed for 4K Bluray, with the wider color output, HDR, and high bitrate audio. The BD drive could very well be ready to support 3-4 layered BD discs though, but since the PS4 is missing the other stuff, it doesn't matter.

I agree with you about multi-platform games.

The only game (which is a PC-exclusive) that looks like night and day compared to any console game is Star Citizen. Here is a really old trailer that impresses the heck out of me. This video goes all the way upto 4K/2160p, 60fps.

I feel ripped off if this is true. I bought a PS4 on launch day with the expectations of it being the only version of the console, minus a slim version, for the next 7-10 years per usual. When I bought it, Sony didn't say, we are releasing an even better console in 3 years which will play games better than what you just gave us $400 for. This isn't a normal thing in the console market, and it isn't something I was expecting. I'm personally hoping this is all a hoax.

Sony needs to think about the almost 40 million existing PS4 owners and how they could or will react to this. Sure there are die hards that'll swallow this load, but a lot of casuals could get really upset. My buddy just bought a PS4 2 months ago and he is livid at the idea that he will be getting inferior versions of games in the same ecosystem and I'm right there beside him.

When Nvidia announces gpu's, they release a roadmap and are upfront with their plans. I can go off of that to decide which upgrade will be best for me. What Sony is doing is shady in my eyes and I will never be an early adopter of another one of their consoles and may just say screw the Playstation brand in general. I hope early adopters stand up to this and don't just swallow what Sony is dumping into their mouths.

Have fun with that $400-$500 incremental console upgrade. Considering that almost two and a half years in there is still barely anything to write home about the PS4 other than Bloodborne, I'm not going to bother buying the system again.

It's a different disc, most likely because of the capacity. I'm not sure about the codecs. The hardware on the PS4 just can't output 4K, which is why Sony said they'd release a revision at some point hat was capable of doing so.

@emgesp: by the time the new PS4 comes around you aren't going to get nearly enough to make it justifiable.

Why would someone buy a $250 PS4 when for $150 more they can get a much better experience. Not to mention my used PS4 will have to be cheaper than the new price of the old PS4 which will get a price cut for sure.

But that's all besides the point. Like he said a console is an investment. There has never been a complete upgrade like this so soon....save for Sega and look at them now. Sony nor MS should be able to change the game on which console generations last after 30 years of being one way.

At least won't with any warning. You do a lot more with a phone....some ppl need to upgrade every time. PC technology moves fast. But that's what makes consoles different.

Why wouldn't I just game on PC if I'm going to upgrade every 3 years?

What would be more cool as well is if the PS4.5 supported freesync and they made HDTVs that supported it. Please do that Sony.

Polaris 36 CU beats Hawaii XT's 44 CU and rivals Fury Pro's 56 CU

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amd-polaris-showcased-running-hitman-at-1440p-60fps-total-war-warhammer-will-support-dx12/

For Hitman, Polaris hits 60 fps for 1440p.

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-03/hitman-benchmarks-directx-12/2/#diagramm-hitman-mit-directx-12-2560-1440

For Hitman, Fury Pro(56 CU) hits 60 fps for 1440p with R9-390X(44 CU) hits 59 fps for 1440p

Polaris 36 CU is the new R9-380X(32 CU) segment GPU i.e. R9-480X

R9-285 (Tonga GCN 1.2) has superior fill rates over R9-290

Polaris has improved graphics command processor, tessellation/ geometry and CU.

Notice Polaris did not label "Render Backend" (ROPS) as new i.e. Tonga's ROPS improvements are sufficient.

Depend on the game.

Double the flop count would probably mean R9 380 in fact a little higher than the R9 380 which is 3.4TF the PS4k would be 3.68 TF.

Depending on the game it would be over the 7970 stock (not ghz edition) over the 780 by 1 frame and over the 770,but that is assuming it is not being CPU bottleneck which is another 2 cents.

The PS4 has 4.5GB and i am sure more can be release from the OS just like they release 1 core,i think those reservations were put in place more to combat future features of the xbox one than actual demand of the OS it self.

That is another concern to memory bandwidth,but i am sure that if they are in deep making an upgrade memory and bandwidth should be accounted in the upgrade list,is not like throwing a R380 inside the PS4 in current form will do anything with that bandwidth.

Yes and that card alone was as expensive as the PS4 it self...

The one inside the PS4 tops at 2.0ghz.

Sony didn't promise 1080p at 60FPS on its games.

My god hahahaaa.... Is like people don't know what the hell has being running on PC since for ever,there is no split user base both units will probably use the same tools and same OS,one will have higher settings than the other,for any one saying stupid crap like that look at cross platform play between PC and PS4 or PC vs xbox one,PC is in a way higher level yet gamers across different platforms can play.

Rocket League for example the userbase,so how come the PS4 and PC can even play the same game online when they don't even use the same OS.

@Chozofication: i doubt they increase the memory. What's the bus width of the PS4's gpu? I presume 256. I don't think they'd go for 384 or 512.

Sure if you wanted to pay $500+ or more on 2013,putting a 7970 like GPU inside the PS4 in 2013 would mean a much higher price.

For one the machine would not have come with 8GB of memory.

2- the CPU would not have being a 1.6ghz jaguar,and the cooling system would have being more complex,not to mention the size of the unit would have being bigger to,so i say $500 to $600.

You actually believe that sony will make a game exclusively for the PS4.? For what purpose to see it fail sales wise and don't get back their investment.?

I am sure 100% that all games will work with both platforms the R380 GPU is not at a distance hardware wise from the PS4 were you can make a game that would not run on PS4 with a few adjustments.

Fact is that model will cost more money and like PC if you are willing to dip in go ahead,but not every one will byte at that PS4.

But the PS4 does support it what do you expect them to say.?

The PS4 upgrade was rumor before the XB1.5 what you are hearing now is basically the confirmation,and MS i am sure change its strategy because of that,make allot of sense now why all of the sudden MS is moving its games to PC.

Some of you are just to bitter with this...hahahaha

This is why I'm in favor of MS and Nintendo leaving the market.

The thing I like about SONY is that they are dedicated to the gaming market and their fans. SONY messed up with the PS3, but did SONY cry like a little baby and throw in the towel mid-gen and release a PS4? No. SONY stuck to their guns and fostered good-will with their fans.

Both MS and Nintendo are dirty simeball companies that don't have even 1% of the honor and decency SONY has. The moment they smell trouble, they cry like a baby and restart the generation with new machines.

As much as SONY doesn't want to hurt their fans, they may have no choice as both Nintendo and MS are acting like sore losers and looking to get a pre-emptive strike on SONY.

@tormentos:

R9-380/R9-380X chip size is 366 mm^2 which is bigger than the entire PS4's 348 mm^2 SoC (GPU section is about 212 mm^2).

Let's see...

PS4's 348 mm^2 - 212 mm^2 = 136 mm^2 for non-GPU sections

136 mm^2 = non-GPU sections

366 mm^2 = GPU section

Total: 502 mm^2 size chip!!! <-------------- very expensive part!!!! Sony has to use 14 nm FinFET Polaris.

40 watt Polaris is only R9-270X (20 CU 1Ghz) level solution i.e. doesn't meet AMD's PC VR minimums which is R9-290X level goal .

The next level Polaris 232 mm^2 / Polaris 36 CU solution that beats R9-290X.

We can remove 28 nm GCNs upgrades for PS4K since higher grade GCNs exceeds PS4's SoC chip size budget.

I don't think some of the die hards get why some of us are upset.

Probably.....there will be PS4.5 exclusives. There will be split support. There's no way of knowing if that split support will mean less focus on the PS4.

Do you guys actually think Ubisoft, EA etc want to work on 6 different consoles? They don't give PC a fair shake as it is with just 3!!!

If those companies have to split time to work on PS4/PS4.5/NX/X1/X1 Elite/and PC....do you really think the older consoles are going to get the focus?

And again.....there will probably be exclusives.

@ronvalencia: They can just shrink down a 7970 to 14nm. Sounds like what they're doing to me. If it's just a 2x increase, that'd fit perfectly.

How would they use Polaris without introducing incompatibilities with old games?

And then what? We get the PS5 2 or 2 1/2 years after this PS4k bullshit? Basically telling their existing user base to **** themselves with this.

Wouldn't put it past Sony to do something this stupid though, and the fact that they have yet to deny anything tells me alot.

I'm glad I'm mostly a PC only gamer. I decide when I want to upgrade, I decide what my games look like and I decide what performance I get.

This is good news though, if true. Means that multiplat games will look even better and be hopefully more "next-gen" than the garbage we've been getting so far.

From Chris Norden, SCEA:

PlayStation 4 has two rendering APIs.

"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGL but it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."

But on top of that Sony is also providing what it terms a "wrapper API" that more closely resembles the standard PC rendering APIs.

The cool thing about the wrapper API is that while its task is to simplify development, Sony actually provides the source code for it so if there's anything that developers don't get on with, they can adapt it themselves to better suit their project.

PS4's low level API is higher than the Radeon driver.

Sony didn't boat anchor their software ecosystem to a single GCN design.

Mantle API is above the driver and lower than DX11

PC master native 4k race. /thread?

Ps4k gives me a reason to wait before I rebuy a ps4 I guess.

@ronvalencia: I see. I was hard set in thinking of consoles like the gamecube and Ps2, but I guess the new twins really are just PCs.

I guess they'll find a way to do this without hurting old games.

Let's be friends :)

It's closer to iOS model than Wintel PC model.

With iOS model, you have defined hardware profiles i.e. very few CPU and GPU combinations, hence the programmer can easily define the right graphics setting for the right hardware profile

Notice AMD Gaming Evolved PC games are optimised across several GCN levels.

So the PS5 is gonna be $500? smh

First of all that mean all games.

Second the R9 380 can run games in 4k dude,just not on ultra.

So a medium setting game on 4k is possible on a R9 380 which would be a little under the Ps4 specs if the 2X leak holds,even more if it uses AMD latest line of GPU which are more efficient per watt than older architectures,just don't expect anything on ultra at 4k,or any demanding game.

Oh i see you are an insider and sony already told you the PS4 will be kill next year and no more games will be make for it.

Dude the PS4 is not going any where if anything it should last 10 years with ease and getting new games still,you people are drama queens and talk like if sony would have already say hey next year the PS4 is not getting supported any more.

This is pathetic you have being getting the inferior version all freaking long,is the reason i have a PC as well,this is being dramatic and over reacting,you start the argument saying that you bough a PS4 thinking that would be the only version of the console,which is basically an make to order argument since consoles don't get those, so saying you got a PS4 because you think it would not get an upgrade is a joke the PS1,PS2,PS3, didn't get one any so what would make you even for a second that the 4th would to say you did get it for that reason.

Yes and he got 8 more years and who knows if more to buy games, and plays on it sony is not canceling the PS4 out n ow and it will not stop selling it just like they will not stop supporting it,they even make games for the damn lol vita.

What sony is doing is giving people the option for a stronger hardware i guess you don't buy cell phones right because is pathetic you buy a damn iphone 6 only to get a 6s month down the line,and 6 more months latter an iphone 7 and those cost even more than the PS4 when all is say and done,i have an Lg3 and there is already a 4th and a 5th that came to and i am not crying about it,is progression hell in most cellphone cases is stupidities what change and people byte into them.

Some of you are being dramatic and speak as if sony already cancel the damn console is a joke.

Those that don't care about graphics.?

What make you think it will be $400.?

Yes i know i was just using the R380 as reference,do you actually think it can be Polaris.?

A 36 CU Polaris GPU is a great increase it actually beat the R290X,that seems like allot if you ask me.