PS4K information (~2x GPU power plus clock increase, new CPU, price, etc)

As long as the platform is 100% BC and all upcoming games work on both platforms (with different rendering settings if necessary), then I'm all on board for this.

I would rather have a new model of console every year with an upgrade plan and a thriving used hardware market for cheaper, older consoles, than wait every 7 years for something new.

If it's done right, it'll be basically like PC gaming in most ways. Devs would choose what kind of hardware they would want to support and would have multiple levels of graphic rendering settings to best take advantage of each piece of hardware. It would be a bit easier on consoles than a PC since each year there is only one new piece of hardware in one configuration rather than a bunch of different levels of new CPUs and GPUs paired with a bunch of new motherboards.

@AzatiS: You really expect them to answer your arguments in a logical way? gtfo ... the only thing you will keep hearing is about praising the model that they constantly rejected (upgrading every 2 - 3 years).

The sane ones will open their eyes and see what's happening with their wallets. The fanboys will praise this model and accuse others of being casual. After all they kept buying the remastered versions of the same game, what did you expect?

@l0ngshot:

It's a means to force upgrades. I would not be surprised if the goal is to have releases every two years, getting the cost of the boxes down to $200-$300, and pushing psn/live even further.

Amen some people with brains that aside their preferences and taste , keeping it real and understand the situation. Kudos.

@tormentos: I guess it's just the fear of the unknown. I don't think there's ever been a full upgrade this quick and I'm not sure what's going to happen.

So tell me how it is not about value any more.? Prove to me that the PS4 on stores now will not last another 6 or 7 years being supported.

No one is saying you should spend more than $800,in fact one could sell the one we already own and get $250 or even more for it,you don't have to sell it to gamestop for almost nothing, you don't have to change either no one is forcing any one is just another option man,you are being to dramatic.

Cell phones are like this and in most cases they cost even more than the PS4,go ahead and try to buy the lastest Iphone without contract and see how much is it,and next year people sell the one they own a buy a new one which many times is minimal the upgrade they get and some things even get worse.

No i already told some one about that,there is no point in using a R9 380 like GPU if the CPU will be the same,i don't think sony can use those low end Jaguar core any more if they want to get most of what that GPU would offer,i am more worry about TDP since AMD CPU are cheaper than intel sony can get a 8 core one from AMD that isn't jaguar based,but those CPU are 125 watts,unless it is something new with lower TDP i don't see that happening.

You are a cow your endless defense of sony tag you long ago as one,ask any lemming they will tell you.

I am not saying this is ok because sony is doing it,in fact i am on record on the xbox one thread about the xbox 1.5 as well in favor of this how it would serve MS best interest.

@tormentos said:

@MonsieurX said:

Upgrading consoles hardware is a dumb move,as it was proven in the past.

I don't think it is a hardware upgrade like the N64 or 32X and more on the line of releasing an xbox one with stronger hardware that will play the same games but with better visuals,and it is quite possible and doable as well.

And actually a cool idea that i think sony should fallow as well,much like PC you buy new hardware,you can buy a beefier Xbox or PS4 for more money and with better performance but without breaking compatibility.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/microsoft-working-towards-console-hardware-upgrade-32992771/

This is me ^^ 30 days ago on the thread where it was say that MS is working toward a new xbox one upgrade,i defended the concept even when it was for xbox,and dismiss several post who wanted to act like it would an external upgrade or that say it would split the userbase.

Just so we are clear on this.

1-Weak hardware you say when a few years into the generation.? The xbox 360 came with a GPU more powerful than Nvidia top of the line 2005 GPU,that GPU alone was $550 and don't even talk to be bout the CPU there were no 3 core CPU on PC on 2005,Dual core were a novelty an a PC carrying was $2,000+ even on the weakest model so we are talking here about close to $3k PC just to match the xbox 360,it wasn't weak hardware at all,unless you look at it a few years into the generation even on late 2006 the xbox 360 was consider higher than mid range.

Now you have option to not be stock on time,and to continue to play all your other games without worry.

2-How would they be upset or robbed.? did the pay what the PS4k will cost when it comes out.? We are talking about a possible $500 dollar unit,hell many people last holiday payed $299 for their PS4 with 1 or 2 games,is not like the platform is here,and is not like you can't sell it and get back most of what you invested.

3-So now paying $800 for a single card is the same as paying $500 for a complete system.? How about opening your PC do you open your PS4,is a close complete system not a part.

4-They are PC with a close OS,if you can't see that i think you need to wake up,there is no Cell or mystic GPU,is all X86,the PS4 can run windows if sony allows it without modification.You don't need to spend again $800 you are being dramatic,why in hell would i keep my old PS4 if want a new one when the new one will play the old one games? Redundancy?

5-I think the direction sony took is based on how the market has reacted to the PS4,a survey is made around 500k people and the number 1 reason they chose a PS4 is because of 1080p says allot,then the arguments and fight over the next the backlash over 720p games on xbox,i think is clear the signal the market was sending to sony.

Also sony sell 4k TV and have movie studios and sell blu-ray movies all goes hand in hand.

6-Oh excuse me how is that different now do you have a PC.? Because if you have one and you have a capable GPU you would have notice now that the PS4 is getting inferior ports since the generation started,where have you being,PC is there PS4 games as well as XBO are inferior always,by the way even the new PS4 will have inferior games to PC that is a given.So if they were not bother to get the superior experience on PC which by the way doesn't charge you for online play either why would they be bother by a new PS4 model.?

7-Oh yeah because that is not the case now...lol So tell me why games on PC,XBO and PS4 on the same game have different scores.?

Yeah exactly....

You are being to dramatic.

This will completely fracture the user base and is a very bad idea. I'm pretty sure a high percentage of the 30+m owners won't suddenly drop their console so where does that leave us all if suddenly developers start making games based around the new specs and the older consoles can only play a highly gimped version???

Very bad idea Sony, very bad idea.

@AzatiS: what you don't understand is this is what a lot of people have been asking for years.

Just got a PS4 and I feel jipped.

I bought a WiiU in 2013 and still feel that way.

Lol it's already the case.

So what happens in an MP game if some are playing at 60fps and others at 30fps? How big of an advantage will the former have?

It's already happening on PC and nobody cares.

Most multiplayer games are already 60fps on the OG PS4 I believe.

The advantage won't be nearly as significant as you think. Frame rate has have a major impact only for highly skilled players. It's especially true for twitch shooters with M+KB input. The difference won't be that big on consoles. Not big enough to make up for the gap in skill anyway.

I did what you see there.

indubitably

You will be in the same place you are now,getting a superior version to XBO games,and getting an inferior version vs other stronger platforms like PC.

There will be no fracture,alienation or anything of that sort because i am sure games will work between both consoles,look at Rocket league is playable online even across platforms with hardware that run different OS.

I dont think this is really about gaming. I think Sony is more concerned about being the first to have that 4K blu ray player in their PS4. It will possibly have a huge impact on 4K blu ray movies and Sony 4K TV sales.

@Sushiglutton: most multiplayer shooters are 60 fps this gen. In fact I can't think of one that isn't.

... but then why not just get a PC? You took away one of the only two advantages consoles have over PCs, and the other one is first-party games (meaning that both advantages would be gone for XBox), so...

@techhog89: I have a pc and will be getting the 4k. I think some of you need to reevaluate why you bought a ps4. Was it to play games or say you have the most powerful console in the history of 8GB DDR5. If your primary concern is video games well your life isn't changing. If your concern is winning pissing contests well why aren't on pc first of all and yes you are about to feel some type of way.

@tormentos: We gonna be here when everything i said might happen or might not and we gonna talk about it again.

Who could have thought a year ago that consoles will end up being upgradeable like and consolites that were defending consoles of being cheap and accusing PCs of upgrade needs now its the fucking opposite. Its fuking insane if you ask me .

As of value ... think more and youll have your answer , you dont need to be Einstein to understand what was good about consoles value thru the years. Now , keep paying , its all good. Keep paying and keep defending this crap so youll end up having 3 years console cycles and end up giving more money than a high-end PC in the end to play 10-20 games per gen.

Its fine by me , keep doing what you doing.

Who asked that ? Link me a single post from 2000 up to few months ago that someone asking for a new platforms with way better hardware of the already original thats supposedly is out for 2-3 years only .. A SINGLE one , google every single forum and link me 1.

Dont talk out of your ass ! Some minority asked before about upgradable parts for the EXISTING models not a new model of the same product that already paid full price for , specially after 3 years or something . Wake up. Whoever even thought about upgradable parts was getting negative comments like " Go buy a PC if you want such thing " or " Consoles are not PCs" and many more of that nature.

And now you saying in my face these BS ? How long are you lurking in gaming forums ? I think you either talking out of your butt or you dont remember ( you dont want to remember even ) what was the case with consoles up to now.

What amazes me is that you are not keeping it real out of fanboyism and you want consoles to be PCs when you were dissing PCs all along. And thats where hypocrisy begins.

Whatever , think what you want , buy what you want... I refuse to pay for a console that ill need / get forced to upgrade after 3 years. Ill stick to PC gaming , problem solved , all happy. Lets move on and lets let time prove whos right and wrong.

It's still cheaper than buying a PC in the long run to play the latest games.

You pretty much have to upgrade your PC every 3-4 years to stay current, so it makes no odds. At least the PS4 was cheaper this gen.

I have a PC.

I don't play console games for the "advantage". I play console games because I can't get them on a PC and a console still delivers a better living room experience. I buy some multiplatform titles, especially ones with shit PC ports, on the consoles, just because I believe some are built for a TV/home theater experience rather than my desktop.

Video games i my favorite pasttime. I buy all sorts of devices that can play them. I don't buy hardware just so I can keep up some persona on the internet. I know that a PC gives the highest graphic fidelity possible and that I could hook it up to my TV in my living room, but I don't care. A console plugs into my receiver and has software written around working with a controller on a TV that is 10+ feet from me and a sound system meant to fill a room rather than headphones. It's far easier to just buy a console and play some multiplats and the exclusives on that since I don't play games for pure graphics and I think the PS4/Xbox One do fine graphics as is.

Basically I don't live System Wars in my life. I don't suffer through medicore experiences just so I can prove a PC is the dominate. I know the PC is the best platform for games, but it still has real limitations that are not easily remedied. It's getting better of course, but it's still not there. Consoles are also very nice for the plethora of media features they have.

@Wasdie: well said

Welcome to the world of progress. I swear some of the people here are acting like stubborn old geezers who are afraid of change.

I just don't get why people are having a fit over a product that is entirely optional. Why can't consoles have both standard and premium offerings just like other products?

@Wasdie: Nice to see a level head amidst this chaos.

The PS4K isn't going to get exclusive games! What plays on the PS4K will play on the Standard PS4. Also, developers could patch previously released PS4 games to take advantage of the PS4K's superior hardware if they so choose. Though, don't know if many will.

Every 3 - 4 yrs is fine with me. I mean the original PS4 is still going to get at least 6 yrs of support so that's a full generation anyways. Still don't understand why people are getting so butthurt over this.

No it isn't. Not with PS+/XBL and games costing more on consoles.

At least on PC I don't pay for online and the cost for games is a lot less. If I were to go PC only I'd be saving a ton of money, the only thing that was keeping my tied to consoles was the exclusives and the fact that I don't need to upgrade them regularly. Now Sony and MS want to take away one of the only advantages that consoles have over PCs. If they both go this shitty route I'll be a lot more hesitant about buying the PS5 at launch. I don't feel like buying one only to buy a PS5.5 2-3 years later, that's bullshit. I'd rather buying one console every 5-6 years and use the money I save from that to upgrade my PC like I've always done.

If you're buying a new console every 3-4 for $500 years and paying for online, with more expensive games, you might want to check the maths on that :P

Can't see myself supprting this unless there is a trade-in program via Sony or a 3rd party like Gamestop.

Prediction: The GPU will have 2048 stream processors running somewhere from 900MHz to 1GHz. Pretty much either Tonga or a heavily cut down Polaris 10.

Even in Australia we recently had a sale on the R9 290 for ~$180 USD which is a 4.85 TFLOP card.

Wouldn't it be nice if a platform existed where you could just upgrade the part you wanted every 3 years rather than rebuying the entire thing for $500 and still end up with weaker hardware....

So, can PC gamers use this against console gamers?

You're basically upgrading your "PC", except you have to pay full price.

Sadly 290 is not something you can plug in to a console with the heat/power reqs it has

@howmakewood: Well I was being sarcastic :) because that platform already exists where you can plug in a cheap R9 290 and not have to continue waiting for greatness

You are correct on that one, the greatness arrives when you want it to

What an absolutely awful idea. Sony is really dumb if they think VR is going to get people to pay for such a blatant cash grab.

AMD ZEN mobile replaces AMD Jaguar.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3046376/tech-forecast/oculus-rifts-pc-requirements-are-virtual-realitys-achilles-heel

Remember, AMD's goal for FinFET 14nm node is to offer affordable hardware that meets PC's minimum VR spec i.e. Intel Core i5-4590(or greater) + R9-290 class hardware. MS's XE and Sony's PS4K may play a role for AMD's 14nm FinFET agenda.

R9-390 is already costing $299 USD and AMD wants to improve this situation. AMD knows $400 box can reach 45 million units after about 3 years.

@tormentos: AMD+Sony+Samsung+LG worked on HDMI 2.0a i.e. HDMI 2.0 with HDR and they currently working on FreeSync standard for HDMI 2.0. AMD gave free FreeSync IP for HDMI group.

PS4K has to use Polaris for the new standards.

If all this is true and Microsoft do something similar, we're more or less a step away from consoles being PCs. There are already desktop cases around that allow for incredibly easy swapping of components without opening them up. I can envisage a future where consoles just have a base box with an APU that pulls out and can easily be replaced by the user for an instant upgrade.

I see it would be really cool if they actually end up using polaris.

R9-380(Tonga) is not a straight 2X over PS4's GPU solution i.e. R9-380X's memory bandwidth is about 182 GB/s

256bit GDDR5X can deliver 352 GB/s from PS4's 256bit GDDR5 176 GB/s solution. For comparison, R9-290X has 320 GB/s memory bandwidth with higher cost PCB.

Tonga doesn't support GDDR5X. A case for Polaris.

For Polaris, instruction pre-fetch's goal is to lower latency by minimizing instruction fetch wait states and reduce the load on out-of-order wave-front execution.

Out-of-order wave-front execution has no effect on dependent wave-fronts, but GPU can pre-fetch these dependent instructions, hence minimizing latency. Minimizing latency = higher shader work effectiveness.

My speculation on pre-fetch is based on modern out-of-order CPU and AMD porting additional CPU IP into their GPUs.

instruction pre-fetch may increase memory bandwidth usage i.e. the original fetch + pre-fetch, hence the need for GDDR5X.

Polaris 10 is the 14 nm FinFET "Tonga" with improvements and fixes i.e. Polaris 10 is the 256 bit GDDR5X solution.

Polaris 11 is the 14 nm FinFET "Bonaire" or "Cape Verde" with improvements and fixes i.e. Polaris 11 is the 128 bit GDDR5X solution. Polaris 11 at 40 watts delivers R9-270X level solution.

128 bit GDDR5X solution is effectively similar to 256 bit GDDR5 hence Polaris 11's R9-270X like result.

256 bit GDDR5X solution is effectively similar to 512 bit GDDR5 hence Polaris 10's R9-290X like result.

Veda 10 is something else.

Remember, AMD GCN's current CU has X performance ratio between 32bit data type against lesser datatypes e.g. 8bit integer has performance boost over 32bit FP except for 16bit FP which has no performance benefit (being padded with extra zeros).

Maxwellv2 has 16bit FP performance booster but without 8 bit integer performance booster. This is why AMD has higher 32bit FLOPS while Maxwellv2 G200 can keep up. with less 32bit FLOPS i.e. 16bit FP booster. AMD Gaming Evolve and NVIDIA Gameworks exploits current GPU strength and weaknesses.

The ideal performance ratios: 32bit 1X : 16bit 2X : 8bit 4X i.e. SSE already has these performance boosters i.e. you can pack more data with using lesser data types.

If you are spending additional transistors, better fix the these issues.

This is SEGA levels of stupidity. I don't know how they expect people to buy the PS4K as well as the PSVR within a couple of months of each other. They are cannibalizing their sales not to mention pissing off early adopters of PS4. Because of this shit news I've held of preordering a PSVR and will be saving the money to upgrade my PC when the Pascal GPUs arrive. PC gaming is not only cheaper with this news, it also offers way better value for money. The GPU I'll be getting will smoke the PS4.5 and probably the PS5, heck even my GTX970 smokes the rumored specs of the PS4.5. Sony is showing how clueless and out of touch they are by thinking they can get consumers to spend ~$1000 within a couple of months especially after burning early adopters. PS4 is also the last console I buy at launch if these rumors are true.

It's not a completely stupid idea. They knew they had to release a "slim" model when the 4K Bluray arrived, since the tech wasn't decided when the PS4 was developed. So it's missing a bunch of stuff to play 4K BD, and Sony have to support the movie business. Even the Nintendo NX can in theory support 4K BD. But with this architecture, they have a chance to actually upgrade the hardware significantly, and still support both hardware revisions, even if one of them is twice as powerfull. They aren't forcing you to buy the new one.

PSVR is just an add-on that can also work with PS4K. PSVR is just display headset and some head positional processor. PS4K is still "PS4" but with better CPU and GPU.

Sega's mistake is half ass 32X+Mega CD add-ons for Genesis/Mega Drive then the Saturn (quadrilaterals as its basic geometric primitive is a failure) which is not Apple's iPhone 1/2/3/4/5/6 progression model.

Polaris 10 has beaten R9-290X in Hitman 2016. http://techfrag.com/2016/03/15/amd-polaris-manages-hitman-2016-at-1440p60fps-warhammer-to-utilize-directx-12/

That's just Polaris 10 with 36 CU and Vega 10 has 64 CU.

PS; Fury X's 64 CU is not scaling correctly from R9-390X's 44 CU i.e. there's a bottleneck in the GPU.

Unlike Sega, AMD has influence over standards e.g. Shader Model 6's wavefront = AMD's GpGPU model.

https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/732728/how-much-speed-of-64bit-integer-algebra-in-the-latest-gpus-/

64bit integers being emulated on NVIDIA GPUs. LOL.

https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/763273/peak-performance-of-integer-operation/

So the single-instruction integer multiply (IMUL) on cc 3.5 gets expanded to about 4 instructions on cc5.0. Note that all 64-bit integer operations, on all architectures, get expanded to multiple-instruction-sequences.

More info on 64bit operations for AMD GCN http://timothylottes.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/notes-on-amd-gcn-isa.html Remember, Xbox One has AMD GCN.

Shader Model 6.0 is one of the last major software optimizations for XBO and DirectX12. i.e. exposing AMD's wavefront programming model to Direct3D programmers.

Do the current PS4 owners really want to play games significantly worse than that same game played on a PS4k....I still dont see the logic with this.

Id be pissed if I were an early adopter and paid full price for the launch model only to see my experience with certain games downgraded through no fault of my own. Seems like a shitty way to behave

I'm hoping they run a trade in program. I'd take mine in without a second thought, to upgrade to this updated system.

lol and they were making fun of hermits because the upgrades.