New PC: Cheap, Epic, Vastly Superior

I could have fun racing my Grandma's car around a track. But would rather use a tool appropriate to the job!

ehussein1379

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]I could have fun racing my Grandma's car around a track. But would rather use a tool appropriate to the job!

cain006

A controller is only inferior when precision is key. Most console games use auto-aim (which is an argument in itself) so the need for precision is lowered.

Some games are better with a controller, without a doubt.

[QUOTE="cain006"]Controls being better is incorrect, you can use any controller you want on pc.IronBass

Nope, with xpadder and x360ce you can play, literally any game with a controller.ampiva

Funny thing, on consoles you can play literally any game with a controller, without the need of anything else =P

[QUOTE="ampiva"] Nope, with xpadder and x360ce you can play, literally any game with a controller.IronBass

But you CAN'T play with a mouse :)

Options > no options

All you need is PC+PS3 in order to get the best of this gen.

[QUOTE="ampiva"] Nope, with xpadder and x360ce you can play, literally any game with a controller.IronBass

That argument makes no sense

But you CAN'T play with a mouse :)

Options > no options

ehussein1379

Actually you can (since we're talking about additional devices).

Not something I'd do, though.

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]Not really. 360 is plug-n-play in Win7, works flawlessly.

PS3 controller requires a driver, but nbd.

IronBass

As I said, not every game has controller support.

That argument makes no senselostrib

X-Padder solves that.mitu123

Ok lets end this madness.

A PC that is capable of playing at console levels (medium or so at 30fps) is still roughly 3 times as much as a freakin console. Its not "cheap", a console from 2005 can play a game in 2011 that a 2005 PC would probably blow up trying, while you can also expect the next gen to have consoles on top for at least 2 years or so if this gen is any indication, not to mention that a very wide variety of games are just impossible on keyboards compared to controllers (such as fighters, platformers, racing games, hack and slashers, basically a large amount of games).

Honestly, PC gaming isn't a perfect end all to gaming or else you wouldn't see developers moving away or such emphasis on them by gamers and companies, and its ignorant and desperate to try and convince otherwise.

But if you want to believe there is a $300 PC that is 200x better then a console, go on believing. I can believe I'm a billionaire, doesn't make it true in the slightest.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

I said legitimately better :)

ME2 BS2 are both dramatically worse with a controller. Bioware made the enemies tougher in PC ME2 to accomodate for no-auto-aim.

You would get wiped on PC ME2 with a controller. A mouse is literally better, at controlling, that game.

BS2 is the same deal. Wiped with a controller because the devs enhanced the combat for PC.

Same with a lot of new games, devs are making the PC version harder because auto-aim doesn't facilitate the 'win'.

ehussein1379

There is not such thing as "legitimately better". How well a controller type work is entirely up toeach person's preference.

Not really.

The goal is to aim and kill things right? A mouse allows you to do that better, legitimately.

Beyond that, ME2 combat is enhanced for PC to accomodate that reality.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]Not really. 360 is plug-n-play in Win7, works flawlessly.

PS3 controller requires a driver, but nbd.

mitu123

As I said, not every game has controller support.

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

There is not such thing as "legitimately better". How well a controller type work is entirely up toeach person's preference.

lowe0

Not really.

The goal is to aim and kill things right? A mouse allows you to do that better, legitimately.

Beyond that, ME2 combat is enhanced for PC to accomodate that reality.

Sorry, but that is nonsensical, and a deflection of the topic.

Are you saying that you couldn't enjoy the game with MORE precision? What about the improved AI that comes along with it in the case of ME2?

Ok lets end this madness.

A PC that is capable of playing at console levels (medium or so at 30fps) is still roughly 3 times as much as a freakin console. Its not "cheap", a console from 2005 can play a game in 2011 that a 2005 PC would probably blow up trying, while you can also expect the next gen to have consoles on top for at least 2 years or so if this gen is any indication, not to mention that a very wide variety of games are just impossible on keyboards compared to controllers (such as fighters, platformers, racing games, hack and slashers, basically a large amount of games).

Honestly, PC gaming isn't a perfect end all to gaming or else you wouldn't see developers moving away or such emphasis on them by gamers and companies, and its ignorant and desperate to try and convince otherwise.

But if you want to believe there is a $300 PC that is 200x better then a console, go on believing. I can believe I'm a billionaire, doesn't make it true in the slightest.

SPYDER0416

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

Not really.

The goal is to aim and kill things right? A mouse allows you to do that better, legitimately.

Beyond that, ME2 combat is enhanced for PC to accomodate that reality.

ehussein1379

Sorry, but that is nonsensical, and a deflection of the topic.

Are you saying that you couldn't enjoy the game with MORE precision? What about the improved AI that comes along with it in the case of ME2?

Are you saying that you couldn't enjoy the game with MORE precision? What about the improved AI that comes along with it in the case of ME2?ehussein1379

Precision to aim is only part of it. As I said, actually moving a character feels way clunkier with keys than it feels with the triggers. And the ergonomic design of a controller feels much better. There's nothing nonsensical about it.

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

Ok lets end this madness.

A PC that is capable of playing at console levels (medium or so at 30fps) is still roughly 3 times as much as a freakin console. Its not "cheap", a console from 2005 can play a game in 2011 that a 2005 PC would probably blow up trying, while you can also expect the next gen to have consoles on top for at least 2 years or so if this gen is any indication, not to mention that a very wide variety of games are just impossible on keyboards compared to controllers (such as fighters, platformers, racing games, hack and slashers, basically a large amount of games).

Honestly, PC gaming isn't a perfect end all to gaming or else you wouldn't see developers moving away or such emphasis on them by gamers and companies, and its ignorant and desperate to try and convince otherwise.

But if you want to believe there is a $300 PC that is 200x better then a console, go on believing. I can believe I'm a billionaire, doesn't make it true in the slightest.

YoshiYogurt

I bolded all the important things consoles also have 8)

[QUOTE="markko84"]

a cheap average pc with an a Corei5 + 450 GTS is good enought to overcome by a mile the atual generation of consoles.

However the library of the consoles is what's worth. Dicussing power is pointless and useless, we're talking about 6 year old machines here.

M4Ntan

why would you get a core i5 with a 450 gts? a phenom ii x4 955 with a 560ti would be about the same price, and be beyond better than a single 450. It would be ahead of consoles by 2 whole generations.

What I said was not about what's worth buying, it was just an a example of an average modern PC hardware surpassing easily the current-gen consoles.

Ok lets end this madness.

A PC that is capable of playing at console levels (medium or so at 30fps) is still roughly 3 times as much as a freakin console. Its not "cheap", a console from 2005 can play a game in 2011 that a 2005 PC would probably blow up trying, while you can also expect the next gen to have consoles on top for at least 2 years or so if this gen is any indication, not to mention that a very wide variety of games are just impossible on keyboards compared to controllers (such as fighters, platformers, racing games, hack and slashers, basically a large amount of games).

Honestly, PC gaming isn't a perfect end all to gaming or else you wouldn't see developers moving away or such emphasis on them by gamers and companies, and its ignorant and desperate to try and convince otherwise.

But if you want to believe there is a $300 PC that is 200x better then a console, go on believing. I can believe I'm a billionaire, doesn't make it true in the slightest.

SPYDER0416

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]Are you saying that you couldn't enjoy the game with MORE precision? What about the improved AI that comes along with it in the case of ME2?IronBass

Precision to aim is only part of it. As I said, actually moving a character feels way clunkier with keys than it feels with the triggers. And the ergonomic design of a controller feels much better. There's nothing nonsensical about it.

It just takes getting used to a keyboard and mouse setup. I actually kind of like using the keyboard because when you move right or left, you know you're going exactly that way. With a joystick you can accidentally waste some movement.

Right, because it's not like keyboards are meant to be ergonomic or anything...

It just takes getting used to a keyboard and mouse setup. I actually kind of like using the keyboard because when you move right or left, you know you're going exactly that way. With a joystick you can accidentally waste some movement.cain006

I'm pretty sure that"getting used" nothing of this would matter, because, well, we would already be used to it.

It's less about what we can get used to and more about what we actually like.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]Are you saying that you couldn't enjoy the game with MORE precision? What about the improved AI that comes along with it in the case of ME2?cain006

Precision to aim is only part of it. As I said, actually moving a character feels way clunkier with keys than it feels with the triggers. And the ergonomic design of a controller feels much better. There's nothing nonsensical about it.

It just takes getting used to a keyboard and mouse setup. I actually kind of like using the keyboard because when you move right or left, you know you're going exactly that way. With a joystick you can accidentally waste some movement.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]Are you saying that you couldn't enjoy the game with MORE precision? What about the improved AI that comes along with it in the case of ME2?cain006

Precision to aim is only part of it. As I said, actually moving a character feels way clunkier with keys than it feels with the triggers. And the ergonomic design of a controller feels much better. There's nothing nonsensical about it.

It just takes getting used to a keyboard and mouse setup. I actually kind of like using the keyboard because when you move right or left, you know you're going exactly that way. With a joystick you can accidentally waste some movement.

KB/M is better for movement.

Why?

Because you don't just use the keyboard, you use it in conjunction with the mouse.

Strafe + mouse aiming = best possible control scheme. No controller user could beat someone using that setup.

Controller is better for racing, auto-aim heavy TPS, and fighters. But ... PC supports controllers.

With a controller you use the right tank turret to aim, making it incredibly clunky.

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

Precision to aim is only part of it. As I said, actually moving a character feels way clunkier with keys than it feels with the triggers. And the ergonomic design of a controller feels much better. There's nothing nonsensical about it.

lowe0

It just takes getting used to a keyboard and mouse setup. I actually kind of like using the keyboard because when you move right or left, you know you're going exactly that way. With a joystick you can accidentally waste some movement.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="cain006"]Right, because it's not like keyboards are meant to be ergonomic or anything...

It just takes getting used to a keyboard and mouse setup. I actually kind of like using the keyboard because when you move right or left, you know you're going exactly that way. With a joystick you can accidentally waste some movement.

lawlessx

Ok lets end this madness.

A PC that is capable of playing at console levels (medium or so at 30fps) is still roughly 3 times as much as a freakin console. Its not "cheap", a console from 2005 can play a game in 2011 that a 2005 PC would probably blow up trying, while you can also expect the next gen to have consoles on top for at least 2 years or so if this gen is any indication, not to mention that a very wide variety of games are just impossible on keyboards compared to controllers (such as fighters, platformers, racing games, hack and slashers, basically a large amount of games).

Honestly, PC gaming isn't a perfect end all to gaming or else you wouldn't see developers moving away or such emphasis on them by gamers and companies, and its ignorant and desperate to try and convince otherwise.

But if you want to believe there is a $300 PC that is 200x better then a console, go on believing. I can believe I'm a billionaire, doesn't make it true in the slightest.

SPYDER0416

Most of the genres you listed can be played well on PC sometimes better. PC gaming may not be perfect but if I could only choose one platform it would be PC. Plus a decent PC only costs 200-300 more than a console

KB/M is better for movement.

Why?

Because you don't just use the keyboard, you use it in conjunction with the mouse.

Strafe + mouse aiming = best possible control scheme. No controller user could beat someone using that setup.

Controller is better for racing, auto-aim heavy TPS, and fighters. But ... PC supports controllers.

With a controller you use the right tank turret to aim, making it incredibly clunky.

ehussein1379

The keyboard is horrid for movement. There's no way you're going to win the argument that 4 keys, giving a maximum of 8 directs total, is better than the many nuanced angles that a analog stick gives.

Thankfully, There are much better alternatives to the keyboard. I personally use the ****** NT with the little analog nub on the side. Much better than the WASD setup.

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

KB/M is better for movement.

Why?

Because you don't just use the keyboard, you use it in conjunction with the mouse.

Strafe + mouse aiming = best possible control scheme. No controller user could beat someone using that setup.

Controller is better for racing, auto-aim heavy TPS, and fighters. But ... PC supports controllers.

With a controller you use the right tank turret to aim, making it incredibly clunky.

Kickinurass

The keyboard is horrid for movement. There's no way you're going to win the argument that 4 keys, giving a maximum of 8 directs total, is better than the many nuanced angles that a analog stick gives.

Thankfully, There are much better alternatives to the keyboard. I personally use the ****** NT with the little analog nub on the side. Much better than the WASD setup.

Uh you forgot to add in the use of the mouse

internet, email

SPYDER0416

Both HORRIBLE experiances on a console I might add. Who actually regularly browses the web and writes their email on a PS3 or Wii?

Man, no one does 56K warning anymore?bbkkristian

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

KB/M is better for movement.

Why?

Because you don't just use the keyboard, you use it in conjunction with the mouse.

Strafe + mouse aiming = best possible control scheme. No controller user could beat someone using that setup.

Controller is better for racing, auto-aim heavy TPS, and fighters. But ... PC supports controllers.

With a controller you use the right tank turret to aim, making it incredibly clunky.

Kickinurass

The keyboard is horrid for movement. There's no way you're going to win the argument that 4 keys, giving a maximum of 8 directs total, is better than the many nuanced angles that a analog stick gives.

Thankfully, There are much better alternatives to the keyboard. I personally use the ****** NT with the little analog nub on the side. Much better than the WASD setup.

You missed my point. Those 4 directionals become granular when you add mouse + strafe.

I can blow the doors off my 360 controller moving in games with a KB/M; not even a comparison.

Controller = the equivalent of a tank simulator

KB/M = precision instrument

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

KB/M is better for movement.

Why?

Because you don't just use the keyboard, you use it in conjunction with the mouse.

Strafe + mouse aiming = best possible control scheme. No controller user could beat someone using that setup.

Controller is better for racing, auto-aim heavy TPS, and fighters. But ... PC supports controllers.

With a controller you use the right tank turret to aim, making it incredibly clunky.

lostrib

The keyboard is horrid for movement. There's no way you're going to win the argument that 4 keys, giving a maximum of 8 directs total, is better than the many nuanced angles that a analog stick gives.

Thankfully, There are much better alternatives to the keyboard. I personally use the ****** NT with the little analog nub on the side. Much better than the WASD setup.

Uh you forgot to add in the use of the mouse

I fail to see how the mouse changes anything.

With the keyboard, you're essentially regulated to 8 absolute directions of movement. Forward, Left, Right, Back, and a 45 degree angle between either of those cardinal directions. The mouse allows you to move in any direction you want of course, but the keyboard by itself only really has 8 directions of movement.

An analog stick has many more directions. If I want to travel at a 30 degree angle of movement, I can do so. If I want to slightly go at a 10 degree angle to the left, I can do so independent of where my cursor is. Without even bringing the mouse into the equation, the analog stick allows for finer directional control. If you want to move travel at a 10 degree left with the keyboard, you have to A) Move the cursor 10 degrees and then move forward, B) Turn 80 degrees to the right and move left on the perpedicular, or c) turn 35 degrees to right and move at a 45 degree angle along that angle.

This is a case where more is simply more. In the same way that being able to choose between Keyboard/Mouse, controller, or anything in between is simply superior to only being able to play with a controller, having more than 8 directions of movement is better than only having 8 directions of movement.

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

KB/M is better for movement.

Why?

Because you don't just use the keyboard, you use it in conjunction with the mouse.

Strafe + mouse aiming = best possible control scheme. No controller user could beat someone using that setup.

Controller is better for racing, auto-aim heavy TPS, and fighters. But ... PC supports controllers.

With a controller you use the right tank turret to aim, making it incredibly clunky.

ehussein1379

The keyboard is horrid for movement. There's no way you're going to win the argument that 4 keys, giving a maximum of 8 directs total, is better than the many nuanced angles that a analog stick gives.

Thankfully, There are much better alternatives to the keyboard. I personally use the ****** NT with the little analog nub on the side. Much better than the WASD setup.

You missed my point. Those 4 directionals become granular when you add mouse + strafe.

I can blow the doors off my 360 controller moving in games with a KB/M; not even a comparison.

Controller = the equivalent of a tank simulator

KB/M = precision instrument

I'm not even talking about the controller. I'm talking about the stick vs WASD.

The four directions are granular but still, mouse + stick affords more control than mouse+WASD.

The Stick is simply a superior method of moving when compared to the directional keys.

[QUOTE="ehussein1379"]

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

The keyboard is horrid for movement. There's no way you're going to win the argument that 4 keys, giving a maximum of 8 directs total, is better than the many nuanced angles that a analog stick gives.

Thankfully, There are much better alternatives to the keyboard. I personally use the ****** NT with the little analog nub on the side. Much better than the WASD setup.

Kickinurass

You missed my point. Those 4 directionals become granular when you add mouse + strafe.

I can blow the doors off my 360 controller moving in games with a KB/M; not even a comparison.

Controller = the equivalent of a tank simulator

KB/M = precision instrument

I'm not even talking about the controller. I'm talking about the stick vs WASD.

The four directions are granular but still, mouse + stick affords more control than mouse+WASD.

The Stick is simply a superior method of moving when compared to the directional keys.

Stick is better, agreed.

En toto M/KB > controller.

I use a nostromo n52te, so it feels a bit more like a controller, rather than hand resting on a keyboard.

Mouse + WASD is precision movement, no controller would stand a chance against. There is something to be said for on/off movement in an FPS.

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Man, no one does 56K warning anymore?gmaster456

Real men use controller, mouse and keyboard and mouse is for noobs who can't aim the mouse turns so fast its unrealstic so they need help of the mouse.oneshotown