N64 did not age well

@Juub1990:

Draw distance, colors, textures, environmental detail: Crash > Banjo

Banjo Tooie looks fantastic. All these games used the same engine but Conker's Bad Fur Day really took it to the next level.

The big problem with the PS1 was its low resolution. For 2D sprites it wasn't much of a drawbacks but for 3D polygons it was awful. Games look highly pixelated and the aliasing was awful.

2D games on PS1 probably did look better than on N64 but 3D games? Wasn't even a contest.

Some of the obviously lower budget 3D games like Ape Escape and Medievil look worse than N64. But not Crash or Spyro. Even Croc Legend of the Gobbos looked better than Mario 64.

@Juub1990: I havent played Banjo Tooie so I have no opinion of it. I wasnt a fan of the first one I think the collect-a-thon gameplay style is kind of boring. I think Donkey Kong 64 was a step backwards from the DKC games too, although the 4 player splitscreen multiplayer was awesome and we sunk hours into it. Diddys peanut pistols FTW

Well obviously a game released 3 years into the PS1's lifetime looked better than a launch N64 title.

Point is the 3D of PS1 was held back by its jaggies and low resolution. It had a nicer color palette but that's about it. N64 could display far more polygons at a higher resolution. Nothing on PS1 came close to Ocarina of Time or Conker's Bad Fur day except for Varant Story but it also suffered from low resolution.

It was more incremental, things got better looking and larger.

The actual mechanics and control designs were not created during that gen (aside from the Wii). Only thing I'll give you is the cover mechanics from Gears, now that was something not seen before.

You mentioned physics and most objects in games are still as static as they have been since the dawn of 3D gaming. EA with Frostbite is the only one really pushing sophisticated physics in games.

Look up Rallisport Challenge 2, game has better physics than every 360 gaming, including Forza.

AI in gaming outside of Crysis and F.E.A.R. hasn't changed since gen 5, AI in most games don't react much differently.

Play Perfect Dark and then Play CoD 4, Perfect Dark has the better AI.

I was baffled by this. Noticed the only shooters in the last 10 years with decent AI were Halo, Fear and Crysis.

No Mercy had the better gameplay, I can barely remember DoR, has more button bashing moments. I played them single player. Actually the closest games to No Mercy was the Def Jam games.

Quantity never bothered me. When was the last time a Nintendo home console was most people primary console?

Idk, Mario Kart 8 feels like a bit of a merge of F-Zero GX and Mario Kart to me. I never played Mario Kart 7.

Scores are bit meaningless here, it's opinions, all this is my opinions. I can't factually say anyones is wrong, but I'll put mine forwards.

Obviously. Just as you said with your analogy to the 2D era, it's part of the first console generation with 3D graphics.

It's crazy to look at how far graphics, physics, and what not have come and yet AI remains stagnant.

Even physics have taken a backseat. Half-Life 2 and Crysis still have a more elaborate physics engine than modern COD and BF games. BF actually took steps backwards from Bad Company in terms of physics and destructible environment.

Cars do not get damaged to this extent in Forza, not even Horizon 3.

This is one MS developed game I'd love to see brought back.

This was a decade ago, full damage modeling which affected the way the car handled on top of 1-16 player multiplayer. Probably the most advanced physics of the gen for consoles.

There is a reason why your comments Halycon have me somewhat dumbfounded, I'm not sure if you played the same amount of games I have in each era.

It wasn't just incremental.

Perfect Dark, Time splitters ai is crap. Play Cod on hard and it will train you. Now go back to PD, find a smart position, aim for the chest and watch how everyone one runs into your fire. AI has always been slow in development though, but it's on human research, not technology with holds it back. But there is an improvement.

It's not about the objects with physics, but the movement. In Fight Night Champion, the calculations between type of punch, your positions, your arms position, velocity, and where it lands, at what position on the body of your opponent, makes all the difference in damage and this is going on constantly. Then there's the constant calculations of the tyre physics in the FM games, and many games use it improved physics in many different way. Some big some small.

Ace Combat 6 vs the previous ones, huge open world map and incredible physics. The CPU and RAM hardware upgrades allowed for these significant improvements. Huge open world car games like TDU and FH.

100% agree.

The tech has for sure aged like milk, where the SNES aged like a middle class wine.

PS1 has the same issues. A handful of classics that are still fun and a whole lot of clunky growing pains.

@beardmad: "I felt like shoving the controller into my eyes"

That's a funny line.

The Dual Shock didn't come out until well after the N64.

Sounds like that would be painful.

btw Jub, if anything FPS actually took a step back fundamentally with CoD 4.

They got less complex and for the most part got streamlined for the masses.

I want the drugs you're on.

That's not correct. Day of Reckoning was not by the creators of No Mercy. Day of Reckoning was made by Yukes and No Mercy was made by AKI.

No Mercy is widely considered to still be the greatest wrestling game of all time to this day and while Day of Reckoning is good, it can't compare to how amazing No Mercy is. And I'm not just being nostalgic about the past either as I still play No Mercy on a regular basis and I've been playing it regularly for the past 16 years while also trying out all of the wrestling games that have been released since then and none of them have been able to top No Mercy.

What was it about No Mercy that made it better than any wrestling game that came after?

No Mercy is good, but come on now...

The game was sluggish (future games ran at 60 FPS).

No Countering system

Blocky visuals

Some wrestling games that came after, Here Comes the Pain, Day of Reckoning, and some of the SvR games did everything No Mercy did and then some.

You probably played No Mercy when you had friends around and by the time others came you had no one to play with it so you hold No Mercy dearly.

Look at how sluggish this plays.

Alcohol and the occasional dose of nicotine. Not sure if it'll help but give it a try anyway.

Considering it has the start of Factor 5 Star Wars games (Rogue Squadron, Battle for Naboo), Rayman 2 (one of the superior versions), Mario 64, the two 3D Zeldas, Rare's games, Star Fox 64, Gauntlet Legends, and the like, not going to agree.

lol I have the Alcohol part down. How are you saying that nothing good after mario 64? OOT? Majora's mask? Goldeneye? Perfect dark? Mario Kart 64?

I thought Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were quite good for the time actually. Fun games. Not so much anymore though. I never liked OOT. I'm in the minority there so I guess I'm missing something. Actually the only two Zelda games I ever liked were the first one and a Link to the Past. I was a 2D devotee and hated that thing. I loved the NES and SNes. I had to be carried kicking and screaming into the modern day and just never got on with the early 3D games for the most part. I did really like Tomb Raider though. I missed the Super Nintendo and thought Nintendo had lost the plot. I still do. Just one man's opinion. Many more than just you will see it differently. The N64 made me very unhappy back then and I have no desire to revisit it. For me it was the beginning of the end but I did like the Gamecube even if I thought it was the weakest of it's gen. That gen was the best though.

Fair enough! I was never nuts about OOT but respected it. Goldeneye was great for MP because all my friends and I are huge fans of the movies.

Did you like Goldeneye more than Perfect Dark?

Yes, mainly because of the characters and being a huge Bond Fan. (seen all the movies at least 10-20 times each).

That's pretty hardcore.

Best Bond movie is?

@n64dd: Neither here nor there but I also appreciate a good James Bond movie. I prefer the Sean Connery days as I assume most people do. Roger Moore was cool too though.

@brah4ever: Gold Finger. From Russia with love.

Probably Goldfinger. Even though Jaws is my favorite villain and I actually think Roger Moore is my favorite bond.

@mark1974 *high five*. Fantastic movies.

@n64dd: Jaws is my favorite villain too.

When he turns good because of that girl, it cracks me up to no end.

Graphically games have aged well enough for me..its the controls that have issues most times. You people complaining about graphics might want to go back and play some Atari 2600 games..That should shut you up quite fast.Now enjoy your boxes and games and quit worrying about it.

Yeah, lol. I've decided just now that I'm going to rewatch Moonraker and the Spy who loved me this weekend. That is my lofty goal anyways. People better leave me alone and let me do it.

Say what you will but my Atari is broken and I've been dying to play Stampede and Turmoil for some time now. Emulators won't cut it either. I need the joystick!

Coming from the same person that said the SNES was overrated.

It's like no shit if you play N64 games now of course they're going to look unimpressive, it was the first era of 3D games, but they're still a blast to play even to this day.

Just so you're both aware, the DualShock controller wasn't the PlayStation's first dual analog controller, that would be the PlayStation Dual Analog controller which debuted seven months before the DualShock controller.

Also the Sega Saturn 3D Control Pad released within 12 days of the Nintendo 64's launch, Nintendo got there first, but their development of Analog controllers paralleled that of other companies, they got to market first, that doesn't mean they innovated first.

Technically, the N64 was the most powerful home system during 1996-1997. The N64's RCP was the first T&L GPU seen on a home system, three years before PC got its first T&L GPU (GeForce 256). The RCP also had a powerful programmable microcode capability. However, it was held back by SGI's standard Fast3D microcode, which Nintendo forced all developers to use. The blurry textures and low frame-rates that plagued many N64 games was because the Fast3D microcode that developers were forced to use was poorly optimized for the N64 (e.g. its texture cache). Nintendo refused to share the microcode development tools with developers until near the end of the N64's life.

When developers were finally able to program their own custom RCP microcode, the results were often remarkable, with games like Indiana Jones and World Driver Championship, even without the RAM expansion, blowing away anything on the PS1. World Driver Championship, which was running with a high resolution, smooth frame rate, high polygon counts, detailed textures, and advanced lighting (all without any RAM expansion), looked even more impressive than any PC games released up until 1998. But this was only when developers were allowed to program their own custom RCP microcode, rather than being stifled by Nintendo's standard Fast3D microcode.

However, even with the standard Fast3D microcode, the N64's issues weren't as bad as the PS1, with its lack of Z-buffering and perspective correction leading to countless PS1 games being plagued by texture pop-in, polygons that look disconnected, and shaky jittering polygons, not to mention everything looking pixelated. These were bigger issues than the blurry textures that plagued many N64 games.

Nintendo revealed the N64 analog stick in 1995 and released it in 1996. Sony released the Dual Analog in 1997 and the DualShock in 1998. Sony were clearly inspired by the N64 controller, and/or the Saturn 3D Control Pad.

As for Sega, it was indeed parallel development in their case. The Mega Drive/Genesis already had an analog thumbstick controller, the XE1-AP, way back in 1989, but it was exclusive to Japan. Sega also had Saturn 3D Control Pad patents that predate the N64's analog stick reveal in late '95. In this case, it appears that Nintendo was influenced by Sega, rather than the other way around.

I absolutely hate early 3D graphics. The only thing I can stand anymore are early FPS like Duke Nukem or DOOM.

Give me those beautiful 16bit sprites any day.

Early 3D mario is fuel for nightmares

It's alright on an emulator... playing Star Fox 64 without the frame lag is great.

There are only about 10 worthwhile games on the system though, I could happily play them now and then.

Or use a SEGA Genesis controller. No, I'm not kidding. (I learned that from AVGN)

He's quite correct with his assessment of the past situation. IMO we were in awe of having a 3D Zelda or Castlevania that any serious interpretation of the graphical front of the N64 was clouded. Yes some games looked fine but most of what I played was complete bunk. The era was a dark time and rather forgettable to be sure.

Games from that gen have generally not aged well graphically especially. There are a few exceptions of course. I do like some of the 32 bit era 2D games. But without the fog of nostalgia some of the classics of the era are too dated to even play.

What's your top 10 games on the system consist of?

N64 was never that good to begin with. I can count the games I liked on one hand. I swapped mine for some PSX games.