is sony incapable of coming up with original ideas?

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

It wasn't the same. Let me try to explain. Pressure Sensitivity in the PS2 had 256 different pressure points in ALL Of the buttons (Save for "start" and "select"). This technology is also in the PS3, and the original Xbox (M$ got rid of it on the 360, as it was underused.).

You guys don't know this, but that was the big difference between the Dual Shock, and DUAL Shock 2.

Gran Turismo uses it as you can see exactly how hard you are pressing the button while watching RPM's. The Bouncer used to for the type of Punches and Kicks used. EA uses it for sports games, and SOCOM used it for the Grenades (GeoW emulated this, but due to the lack of pressure sensitive buttons on the 360, you used the analog stick for distance.)

It's cool, but it is underused, for sure.

SolidTy

but isn't that just an evolution over to what we had before?

No, it was an innovative idea, it was an innovation.
Before, the games just used Timed presses, that's it.

It was an innovation.

that sounds more like an evolution to me

[QUOTE="ermacness"]another thing sony did that was innovative: allowing for most PC controllers to operate on the ps3 with limited capabilities (i don't know about rumble since the DS3 rumble now, but no six-axis controls though). I know this from experiencest1ka

Bluetooth Headsets

Web Browser

PC controller connectivity

Remote Play

Touch Sense power and eject sensors

and HDMI output

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

st1ka

actually it's not the same, the D-PAD was a different method of controlling, like analog stick and the mouse.

Adding a second analog stick is more of an evolution rather then an inovation, it's not like a new way motion was createdm you simply added a second already exisiting method

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="ermacness"]another thing sony did that was innovative: allowing for most PC controllers to operate on the ps3 with limited capabilities (i don't know about rumble since the DS3 rumble now, but no six-axis controls though). I know this from experienceermacness

ya i can't think of anyone who did that before (on consoles at least)

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

Angry_PolarBear

actually it's not the same, the D-PAD was a different method of controlling, like analog stick and the mouse.

Adding a second analog stick is more of an evolution rather then an inovation, it's not like a new way motion was createdm you simply added a second already exisiting method

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"] imagine trying to play most of the games we have now without a second stick, everything would control like the PSP, that would be bad.SolidTy

let me clarify:

they already had 1 analogue stick, why is having 2 an innovation?

examply: say the standard controller has 4 face buttons... would you consider a controller with 8 face buttons to be innovative?

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

Sony's Idea Became a VIDEO GAME STANDARD. That's huge, man. (It would be nice if they contributed as much as Nintendo, but why knock them for this accomplishment?)

Ah, the QB just throws the ball to the player, that's easy!

main point: the analogue stick as a control method for videogames is the real innovation...

having 2 of them on the same controller = not as innovative.

like St1ka says: its more of an evolution as opposed to an innovation

that sounds more like an evolution to mest1ka

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"][QUOTE="dark-warmachine"]So we got Eye Toy, Dual Analog sticks and CD based console from the PS brand.TOAO_Cyrus1

Actually the Sega Genisis had it as an add on first.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]that sounds more like an evolution to meAngry_PolarBear

[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

let me clarify:

they already had 1 analogue stick, why is having 2 an innovation?

examply: say the standard controller has 4 face buttons... would you consider a controller with 8 face buttons to be innovative?

ogvampire

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

Sony's Idea Became a VIDEO GAME STANDARD. That's huge, man. (It would be nice if they contributed as much as Nintendo, but why knock them for this accomplishment?)

Ah, the QB just throws the ball to the player, that's easy!

main point: the analogue stick as a control method for videogames is the real innovation...

having 2 of them on the same controller = not as innovative.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

st1ka

actually it's not the same, the D-PAD was a different method of controlling, like analog stick and the mouse.

Adding a second analog stick is more of an evolution rather then an inovation, it's not like a new way motion was createdm you simply added a second already exisiting method

No, then why didn't Nintendo think of it. Why did we play Goldeneye archaically. It was an innovation.

If you want, we can call all things Evolutions, since this medium is constantly expanding, and the end result is we are in our seats playing. Until it connects to my brain, it's all Evolution.

It was a very nnovative idea, one that at first wasn't accepted and laughed at. Finally, when games started to use the second analogue it all became clear. Here we are in 2009, and now we still can't give Sony any credit.

BTW : Where is this going, we all know Microsoft is even Far less innovative, yet we are arguing about Sony.

I've seen this thread a ton of times here in SW, yet we don't see 20+ pages of Microsofts's Console Innovation's. Why?

Because the debate wouldn't last more than a few pages.

Here's the way it goes. Nintendo, Sega, Sony, and dead last, Microsoft.

Since SEGA's gone, Sony is now the second, and Microsoft still has yet to add much besides LIVE (Which was good.)

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

Sony's Idea Became a VIDEO GAME STANDARD. That's huge, man. (It would be nice if they contributed as much as Nintendo, but why knock them for this accomplishment?)

Ah, the QB just throws the ball to the player, that's easy!

hayato_

main point: the analogue stick as a control method for videogames is the real innovation...

having 2 of them on the same controller = not as innovative.

i think it's more of an evolution rather then inovative

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

Sony's Idea Became a VIDEO GAME STANDARD. That's huge, man. (It would be nice if they contributed as much as Nintendo, but why knock them for this accomplishment?)

Ah, the QB just throws the ball to the player, that's easy!

ogvampire

main point: the analogue stick as a control method for videogames is the real innovation...

having 2 of them on the same controller = not as innovative.

like St1ka says: its more of an evolution as opposed to an innovation

Look, if you want me to say that Nintendo's Innovation was greater than Sony's, I'll be the first to say it. However, Nintendo didn't finish the Job, and if Sony didn't do it, you saw what SEGA did with the Dreamcast. They failed to add a second stick.

It was an innovation that both Nintendo and SEGA missed. It was as large as the innovative idea to bring analogue to consoles, but it was still an essential innovation that created the standard we see today.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

SolidTy

actually it's not the same, the D-PAD was a different method of controlling, like analog stick and the mouse.

Adding a second analog stick is more of an evolution rather then an inovation, it's not like a new way motion was createdm you simply added a second already exisiting method

No, then why didn't Nintendo think of it. Why did we play Goldeneye archaicly. It was an innovation.

If you want, we can call all things Evolutions, since this medium is constantly expanding, and the end result is we are in our seats playing. Until it connects to my brain, it's all Evolution.

It was a very nnovative idea, one that at first wasn't accepted and laughed at. Finallly, when games started to use the second analogue it all became clear. Here we are in 2009, and now we still can't give Sony any credit.

BTW : Where is this going, we all know Microsoft is even Far less innovative, yet we are arguing about Sony.

I've seen this thread a ton of times here in SW, yet we don't see 20+ pages of Microsofts's Console Innovation's. Why?

Because the debate wouldn't last more than a few pages.

Here's the way it goes. Nintendo, Sega, Sony, and dead last, Microsoft.

Since SEGA's gone, Sony is now the second, and Microsoft still has yet to add much besides LIVE (Which was good.)

i agree, in termos of inovation Microsoft did nothing, the only thing i can think of are it's USB controllers that also connect to the PC and even then it's debatable.

But still doesn't make dual analog an inovation, it's all about button placement, not thinking about substitutes for buttons

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"][QUOTE="st1ka"]that sounds more like an evolution to mest1ka

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Someone had to think of it, and implement it. Judging on how much I've used it since 1990's, it's a MAJOR Innovation.

That's like saying, C'mon, the Dpad was fine, who needs and analogue stick?

Sony's Idea Became a VIDEO GAME STANDARD. That's huge, man. (It would be nice if they contributed as much as Nintendo, but why knock them for this accomplishment?)

Ah, the QB just throws the ball to the player, that's easy!

SolidTy

main point: the analogue stick as a control method for videogames is the real innovation...

having 2 of them on the same controller = not as innovative.

like St1ka says: its more of an evolution as opposed to an innovation

Look, if you want me to say that Nintendo's Innovation was greater than Sony's, I'll be the first to say it. However, Nintendo didn't finish the Job, and if Sony didn't do it, you saw what SEGA did with the Dreamcast. They failed to add a second stick.

It was an innovation that both Nintendo and SEGA missed. It was as large as the innovative idea to bring analogue to consoles, but it was still an essential innovation that created the standard we see today.

just because sega and nintendo missed it doesn't mean it's an inovation because analogs already existed, there was no new form of controll, it was simply adding another button, like adding third button on the megadrive. The difference is this had a major impact, but if impact equaled inovation then we'd all be playing the turbografix 256 : hard drive edition with our 3D goggles

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"] nope, pressure sensitivity is something very different, like he already said most previous games use to use how long you pressed the buttons instead of how hard.Angry_PolarBear

if it was actually based on time and not strenght then i can see why you call it an inovation

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"]nope, pressure sensitivity is something very different, like he already said most previous games use to use how long you pressed the buttons instead of how hard.st1ka

That's exactly right. It was Timed. That's why you would usually either get One funtion out of a button, or Two. Most developers used COMBO BUTTONS to accomplish tasks back then, like hitting Y&X at the same time.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"]nope, pressure sensitivity is something very different, like he already said most previous games use to use how long you pressed the buttons instead of how hard.SolidTy

That's exactly right. It was Timed. That's why you would usually either get One funtion out of a button, or Two. Most developers used COMBO BUTTONS to accomplish tasks back then, like hitting Y&X at the same time.

if that's true then i can see the pressure sensitive buttons as an inovation

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="st1ka"]oh, the nes controller was based on time and not strenght?st1ka

That's exactly right. It was Timed. That's why you would usually either get One funtion out of a button, or Two. Most developers used COMBO BUTTONS to accomplish tasks back then, like hitting Y&X at the same time.

if that's true then i can see the pressure sensitive buttons as an inovation

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="st1ka"]oh, the nes controller was based on time and not strenght?st1ka

That's exactly right. It was Timed. That's why you would usually either get One funtion out of a button, or Two. Most developers used COMBO BUTTONS to accomplish tasks back then, like hitting Y&X at the same time.

if that's true then i can see the pressure sensitive buttons as an inovation

Another game that used it well was Metal Gear Solid 2.

You could aim your pistol out, and if you eeased off the button, you would not fire a shot. Instead, you would put your gun at your side. If you played the game on the GC or PSOne, you automatically fired when the button was released.

It was a subtle little touch, but pretty cool if you were aware of the function.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

That's exactly right. It was Timed. That's why you would usually either get One funtion out of a button, or Two. Most developers used COMBO BUTTONS to accomplish tasks back then, like hitting Y&X at the same time.

Angry_PolarBear

if that's true then i can see the pressure sensitive buttons as an inovation

Sony and original ideas, it doesn't seem like it.one_on_one

In terms of innovation Nintendo>Sega>>>>>>>>>>>somewhere>>>>>Sony/MS Sony however beats MS if you count all they've done for the industry as a whole. Although ninty innovated the most I hate all the crap("innovating") that they're doing with the wii, so out of all the innovative companies I think Sega should get the most credit.Angry_PolarBear

is there anything microsoft did?

other then it's wired 360 controllers which could also be plugged in to the PC i can't think of anything

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"]In terms of innovation Nintendo>Sega>>>>>>>>>>>somewhere>>>>>Sony/MS Sony however beats MS if you count all they've done for the industry as a whole. Although ninty innovated the most I hate all the crap("innovating") that they're doing with the wii, so out of all the innovative companies I think Sega should get the most credit.st1ka

is there anything microsoft did?

other then it's wired 360 controllers which could also be plugged in to the PC i can't think of anything

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"]In terms of innovation Nintendo>Sega>>>>>>>>>>>somewhere>>>>>Sony/MS Sony however beats MS if you count all they've done for the industry as a whole. Although ninty innovated the most I hate all the crap("innovating") that they're doing with the wii, so out of all the innovative companies I think Sega should get the most credit.Angry_PolarBear

is there anything microsoft did?

other then it's wired 360 controllers which could also be plugged in to the PC i can't think of anything

i think it's more of an evolution to be honest.

unless of course you mean the fact that it was all integrated (friends list and stuff like that)

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

is there anything microsoft did?

other then it's wired 360 controllers which could also be plugged in to the PC i can't think of anything

st1ka

i think it's more of an evolution to be honest.

unless of course you mean the fact that it was all integrated (friends list and stuff like that)

[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

ok...so....what do we got so far?

st1ka

3D graphics? the 3DO and jaguar had them

Dual sticks.. yeah ok..

rumble the N 64 had it first

stereo? i think the sega CD had stereo, if it didn't than the saturn had it

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"][QUOTE="ps3_owns_360Wii"]

Motorstorm- tracks that change every lap

ps3_owns_360Wii

FlatOut had that before Motorstorm. Motorstorm only evolved the idea.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="ermacness"]another thing sony did that was innovative: allowing for most PC controllers to operate on the ps3 with limited capabilities (i don't know about rumble since the DS3 rumble now, but no six-axis controls though). I know this from experienceermacness

Bluetooth Headsets

Web Browser

PC controller connectivity

Remote Play

Touch Sense power and eject sensors

and HDMI output

[QUOTE="ermacness"]

Bluetooth Headsets

Seriously? ...

Web Browser

Dreamcast says hello again.

PC controller connectivity

Hardly innovation but okay I'll give you that one. Doubt anyone ever used it though.

Remote Play

Don't know what it is, so okay one for sony.

Touch Sense power and eject sensors

???

and HDMI output

That's more a TV evolotuion than a console one.

Lionheart08

Hardly.

LBP, Motorstorm, R1 and R2 says hi.

Sony has developed alot more new IPs then MS this gen

[QUOTE="ps3_owns_360Wii"][QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"] Motorstorm: Another generic racing game, wow so original and innovative Resistance: A sci-fi shooter with aliens; how originalst1ka

Motorstorm- tracks that change every lap

Resistance-40 mp games or 60 mp games on a console and they do it without lag

how is this original or inovation?

give me a console game that supports that many players

[QUOTE="ermacness"]

[QUOTE="st1ka"] ok, now that i agree...so what do we have so far again?Lionheart08

Bluetooth Headsets

Web Browser

PC controller connectivity

Remote Play

Touch Sense power and eject sensors

and HDMI output

and how many of those 'innovations' really have anything to do with Gaming besides remote play....

what do you mean by pressure sensitive buttons?

but didn't the NES controller already had that? i remember that mario jumped diferently depending on the strenght i used

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

That's exactly right. It was Timed. That's why you would usually either get One funtion out of a button, or Two. Most developers used COMBO BUTTONS to accomplish tasks back then, like hitting Y&X at the same time.

Angry_PolarBear

if that's true then i can see the pressure sensitive buttons as an inovation

Thats still not the face buttons. Triggers are, by nature, analog. Think of it this way: every controller before the N64 had purely digital input methods. Input from the face buttons on the DUALSHOCK 2 can be read as analog values.

Playstation was originally supposed to be an SNES add-on. They ripped off that whole project.Parasomniac

Can anybody name even one idea that sony thought of first?

Look at the PS1 and look at the beloved dual-shock controller. The ORIGINAL dual shock did not have analog, it was basically just a ripoff of the snes controller. Take away the handles and you'll see what I mean.

Then, along came the n64 with an analog stick, which it turns out is actually a necessity for 3d gaming, so after seeing this, sony MODIFIED the dual shock to include analog, so they once again copied nintendo.

I remember laughing back when sony fanboys were bashing the gamecube controller for being a "ripoff" of the dual shock, when in actuality they were basically saying that nintendo was just ripping off themselves.

Then nintendo comes out with the motion-sensing wii-mote, and then omg sony has to come up with their own half-assed motion sensing knockoff of this technology, and to add insult they announce a new controller called the "waggle" which is literally a carbon copy ripoff of the wii-mote.

And now sony has taken to ripping off microsoft as well. Hey that hard drive idea you put on the original xbox is pretty cool, let's copy that too! OOOh! Achievements! Wow we need to put some crap like that on our console even though it wasn't available at launch!

It's no wonder the ps3 is in last place. Aside from a lousy selection of games, all their innovations are just parodies of ideas originating at microsoft and nintendo.

UT_Wrestler

ah nintendo fanboys, nintendo wasnt the first to use an analog stick by any means, HDD? realy? pcs had HDDs lightyears before consoles, microsoft is extrememly unoriginal but no one seems to remember that, hell there controller is almost a 1-1 rippoff of the dreamcast controller.

hell all achievments are is a unified system of crap from older games, you had crap like that before, do this unlock this instead of stupid points.

LBP, Motorstorm, R1 and R2 says hi.

Sony has developed alot more new IPs then MS this gen

Why the hell does anyone care, PS3 is a great system with great games.

No, I am not biased, 360 is a great system with great games as well. Im buying a laptop later this year and Ill be able to play some of them, like Mass Effect.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="ps3_owns_360Wii"]

LBP, Motorstorm, R1 and R2 says hi.

Sony has developed alot more new IPs then MS this gen

ps3_owns_360Wii

you for got alan wake, crackdown,IU, Lips, LO, ME, many others that MS published

Sony is a Japanese company that does what the Japanese do best. Taking something and doing it better.

The PS1 controller really looks nothing like the famicom controller anyways. instead of the 2 diagonal button lines that were standard on the snes, genesis, and saturn Playstation made a more ergonomic controller with a cross button design with a more universal system, in which the circle was the place you held your thumb (for some strange reason, x in America).

The snes controller was a curved rectangle. The PS1 controller is nothing like a rectangle. It's a 3D controller for a 3D console.

Furthermore, whats wrong with KEEPING UP WITH THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY? Sega did the same thing with the saturn, coming out with their own 3D controller (for NiGHTs especially).

Then sega copied the PS1 controller layout with the Dreamcast.

And now look at the xbox 360 controller. Very playstation as well.

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"][QUOTE="ermacness"]

Bluetooth Headsets

Seriously? ...

Web Browser

Dreamcast says hello again.

PC controller connectivity

Hardly innovation but okay I'll give you that one. Doubt anyone ever used it though.

Remote Play

Don't know what it is, so okay one for sony.

Touch Sense power and eject sensors

???

and HDMI output

That's more a TV evolotuion than a console one.

T3H_1337_N1NJ4

Hardly.