Bethesda - the most overrated RPG studio of all time.

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#201 Edited by bussinrounds (2036 posts) -

@bussinrounds

You understimate the importance of "Boom Boom" also I'm not in the habbitt of encouraging developers to compensating for flaws in the gameplay instead of actually fixing them. Which is why I've been highly supportive of recent Bioware than Old School Black Isle. Now if we can get them to fix that god awful Dialogue system then we should be fine.

You're supportive of recent Bioware, yet you highly value good gameplay ? (action from your perspective)

#202 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@bussinrounds

Most people still think Role Playing is a genre, Its Not. Its a formula you apply on top of an actual genre, usually action or strategy (Strategy might not be a genre either), and thats where I make my comparisons, thats the part Bioware has been improving on and it Looks like Final Fantasy finally caught on to this too, mean while Bethesda just makes bigger and loaded versions of the same crap.

#203 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

Bethesda just makes bigger and loaded versions of the same crap.

And Bioware doesn't? With every new release Bioware gets worse and worse.

#204 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@bussinrounds

You understimate the importance of "Boom Boom" also I'm not in the habbitt of encouraging developers to compensating for flaws in the gameplay instead of actually fixing them. Which is why I've been highly supportive of recent Bioware than Old School Black Isle. Now if we can get them to fix that god awful Dialogue system then we should be fine.

You're supportive of recent Bioware, yet you highly value good gameplay ? (action from your perspective)

scrutu_scrutu is just a bad troll or someone really stupid.

#205 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Shielder7

And yet the game's mechanics get better and better, weird right... :p

#206 Edited by Vaasman (11267 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@bussinrounds

Most people still think Role Playing is a genre, Its Not. Its a formula you apply on top of an actual genre, usually action or strategy (Strategy might not be a genre either), and thats where I make my comparisons, thats the part Bioware has been improving on and it Looks like Final Fantasy finally caught on to this too, mean while Bethesda just makes bigger and loaded versions of the same crap.

That's like saying GTA is the same genre as Forza Horizon because you can get a nice car and drive it in an open world, or Gears because it's third person and you shoot people. Yes RPG's draw from other genre's for gameplay, but important tropes for RPG's set them apart from other genres, key among which is that statistics manipulation regularly alters the flow and outcome of situations in a significant way. These days, the line is being blurred more and more with RPG elements being pulled into non-RPG's, but it should still be clear to most what constitutes a full blown RPG and what doesn't.

#207 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

@Shielder7

And yet the game's mechanics get better and better, weird right... :p

I'd say more like false.............

#208 Posted by musalala (2144 posts) -

@Shielder7:

Agreed, Does Mr Goldrush know that Bioware were actively Looking at Skyrim in order to implement elements of it into Dragon age Inquistion That whole encounter with that Dragon in the demo reeks of Skyrim.If anything Bioware are taking notes from Bethesda

http://kotaku.com/5965711/looks-like-dragon-age-3-will-definitely-be-influenced-by-skyrim

http://www.wired.com/2011/12/dragon-age-3/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/12/21/bioware-says-next-dragon-age-will-look-to-skyrim/

So yeah Texas Bioware have influenced jack diddly squat as far as WRPG in last 10 years if anything they have actually subtracted from it coz you know they are utter crap

#209 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Vaasman

I didn't just come up with this idea last night you know. I googled around and I conclude that everysingle RPG from good old Table Top to RPG-Hybrid will always have an actual genre lying underneath it. And its not the only one, Open World is just a formula too.

I'm still looking at stealth and strategy games though.

#210 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Shielder7

Say whatever like, Its not gona change that Mass Effect 3 and Hopefully Dragon Age Inquisition finaly have decent combat mechanics.

#211 Posted by Slimmin360 (1463 posts) -

Yet with all your ranting it still sounds as if you buy and play Bethesda's games, so that kind of defeats your own point and purpose here, doesn't it?

Look i'll admit i'm a huge Bethesda fan, but i'll also admit their game releases come with a ridiculous amount of bugs, broken quests, and level scaling issues.....but for the most part are later fixed with patches and updates.

What you have to realize is these huge open world games take 3 to 5 years to make and to make sure everything is working perfectly takes an unbelieveable amount of time testing and reprogramming and recoding, NO developer can work on a game for too long, especially if they don't have alot of IP's to begin with, they need a faster turn around in order to generate profit.

So they make it as playable as they can and fix the rest later with updates. Besides aside from CdProjekt, Blizzard and Bioware, who else do we really have to rely on for true quality western style RPG's.

The Elder Scrolls, and Fallout series from Bethesda are some of my most favorite games period, then again so are the Dragon Age, Diablo's and Witcher games, their all great games and none are completly flawless, but i'll still take as many western RPG dev's as possible because i am not a fan of JRPG's, i can't stand them, so i will never complain about the above listed western RPG dev's.

To quote a saying i heard from my daughters preschool class " Ya take what ya' get, and ya' don't get upset ".

#212 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16678 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: No you're right. to make a truly great RPG, you need to make an amazing game ;)

#213 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer

Looking back over the most Critically Acclaimed RPGs seems to suggest otherwise.

#214 Edited by Xeno_ghost (676 posts) -

I love lulu's amazing theories on the gaming industry, "RPG's are not a genre" lol simply amaze balls.... Right up there with his other theory "exclusives" are the devils work

On topic: i liked fallout3 more than skyrim, skyrim is a good game in small doses, It's vast full of things to do and discover but it's just not interesting enough to play it for any long length of time, like with fallout3 I played that game for a few weeks straight. I do rate Bethesda they certainly pack a lot of content in their games and you always know you are going to get huge number of hours out of their games. What I like most about their games is the actual game world, the best thing to do in their games is just go out and explore.

#215 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

I love lulu's amazing views on the gaming industry, "RPG's are not a genre" lol simply amaze balls.... Right up there with his other theory that "exclusives" are the devils work.

well Scrutu_Scrutu is known for having incredibly stupid ideas, like everything has to have coop or be a relationship simulator or that it has to have boom boom gameplay for it to be good, he can't understand the idea that people enjoy tactical or turn based rpgs, that's how dumb he is.

#216 Edited by Vaasman (11267 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Vaasman

I didn't just come up with this idea last night you know. I googled around and I conclude that everysingle RPG from good old Table Top to RPG-Hybrid will always have an actual genre lying underneath it. And its not the only one, Open World is just a formula too.

I'm still looking at stealth and strategy games though.

lol ok well in that case, fantasy, sci-fi, historical fiction, none of those are genres, they're all just comedies or dramas. Seriously, you do know what a genre is, don't you? A "formula" by the definition you're using is exactly the same thing.

#217 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Xeno_ghost

Actually my theory is RPG arent games at all. But I'l stick with the "its not a genre" since its easy for even a brain like yours to comprehend.

And heres something for you to think about; Have you ever noticed how every other genre basicly describes what you'l be doing throughout the game ?

#218 Edited by LadyBlue (3927 posts) -

@Xeno_ghost

Actually my theory is RPG arent games at all. But I'l stick with the "its not a genre" since its easy for even a brain like yours to comprehend.

And heres something for you to think about; Have you ever noticed how every other genre basicly describes what you'l be doing throughout the game ?

but they're games....

#219 Edited by uninspiredcup (7861 posts) -

Very amazing how dragons, an incredible, exciting mythical creature, they somehow manage to make repetitive and boring.

In a superior title such as Baldurs Gate, dragons are incredibly rare and hard to find, making them appear important and mystic, with incredible challenge.

In Skyrim you wack one every 15 minutes.

#220 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@ladyblue said:

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Xeno_ghost

Actually my theory is RPG arent games at all. But I'l stick with the "its not a genre" since its easy for even a brain like yours to comprehend.

And heres something for you to think about; Have you ever noticed how every other genre basicly describes what you'l be doing throughout the game ?

but they're games....

no they are not, rememeber a random scrub on the internet classified as not games, so yeah, must be true!

#221 Posted by princeofshapeir (13781 posts) -

Very amazing how dragons, an incredible, exciting mythical creature, they somehow manage to make repetitive and boring.

In a superior title such as Baldurs Gate, dragons are incredibly rare and hard to find, making them appear important and mystic, with incredible challenge.

In Skyrim you wack one every 15 minutes. Gotta pander to them LCD.

Pretty much. I think I had more fun killing the two drakes in Demon's Souls than I ever had killing a dragon in Skyrim.

#222 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Krelian-co

Whoa hang on, I'm "Scrutu_Scrutu" ? :(

anyway "Boom Boom" is not my term all I did was speak the local lingo of the village idiot because communication is very important :) , Co-Op makes everything awesome and thats a straight up fact, I don't even have to rant about it, its an Axiom.

And lets be honest, People disagree with me just because they don't like me, Same with TGR and any other inquisitive poster who doesn't accept thing because "thats just how they are". I get that I'm rude and disrespectful but I'm not wrong, Not completely anyways.

#223 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Krelian-co

Whoa hang on, I'm "Scrutu_Scrutu" ? :(

anyway "Boom Boom" is not my term all I did was speak the local lingo of the village idiot because communication is very important :) , Co-Op makes everything awesome and thats a straight up fact, I don't even have to rant about it, its an Axiom.

And lets be honest, People disagree with me just because they don't like me, Same with TGR and any other inquisitive poster who doesn't accept thing because "thats just how they are". I get that I'm rude and disrespectful but I'm not wrong, Not completely anyways.

#224 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Very amazing how dragons, an incredible, exciting mythical creature, they somehow manage to make repetitive and boring.

In a superior title such as Baldurs Gate, dragons are incredibly rare and hard to find, making them appear important and mystic, with incredible challenge.

In Skyrim you wack one every 15 minutes. Gotta pander to them LCD.

Pretty much. I think I had more fun killing the two drakes in Demon's Souls than I ever had killing a dragon in Skyrim.

well to be fair bosses in souls series are actually very entertaining, in dragon age they are just like an oversized minion to kill.

#225 Posted by SolidGame_basic (16880 posts) -

the mods here are extremely inconsistent with locking threads. #blog

#226 Edited by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Krelian-co

Whoa hang on, I'm "Scrutu_Scrutu" ? :(

anyway "Boom Boom" is not my term all I did was speak the local lingo of the village idiot because communication is very important :) , Co-Op makes everything awesome and thats a straight up fact, I don't even have to rant about it, its an Axiom.

And lets be honest, People disagree with me just because they don't like me, Same with TGR and any other inquisitive poster who doesn't accept thing because "thats just how they are". I get that I'm rude and disrespectful but I'm not wrong, Not completely anyways.

no, people disagree with you because you say stupid things, just like TGR, people treat you like a an obnoxious moron because that's what you are. So you see, people can disagree with anyone anytime, how they explain their disagreement depends on how they see the other person, in short, it's a combination of both, Scrutu_Scrutu.

Also let's assume you know what an axiom is, i hate horror or survival games in coop because they take the horror out of it, that alone makes it not true.

#227 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@LadyBlue

Thats an argument for another day.

#228 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Krelian-co

Blah blah blah, Still waiting for the part where you proving me wrong instead of tossing insults.

And while you're at it, Play Lost in Nightmares.

#229 Posted by LadyBlue (3927 posts) -

@ladyblue said:

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Xeno_ghost

Actually my theory is RPG arent games at all. But I'l stick with the "its not a genre" since its easy for even a brain like yours to comprehend.

And heres something for you to think about; Have you ever noticed how every other genre basicly describes what you'l be doing throughout the game ?

but they're games....

no they are not, rememeber a random scrub on the internet classified as not games, so yeah, must be true!

Hey, don't mess with lulu. We have something special.

@Lulu_Lulu It's an argument for now. ;)

#230 Posted by freedomfreak (39214 posts) -

And while you're at it, Play Lost in Nightmares.

RE5 DLC was bad.

#231 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@Krelian-co

Blah blah blah, Still waiting for the part where you proving me wrong instead of tossing insults.

And while you're at it, Play Lost in Nightmares.

what do you want me to prove you wrong? that rpgs are not games? ROFL

nah by all means continue saying that, i chuckle every time i see something so stupid, there is no point in arguing or proving anything against that, continue making a fool of yourself.

#232 Posted by biggest_loser (24030 posts) -

After a few hours I thought it was a masterful game. In terms of scale and the detail of the world there aren't too many that can match it.

#233 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@LadyBlue

I can't make that argument just yet, not enough evidence. so for now I have to stick with the "Formula" argument.

@freedomfreak

damn, you're lazy..... If you're gona be wrong about something, put some god damn energy and passion into it. Failure to do so shows a lack of respect to your gamespotting bretheren and sisteren.

@Krelian-co

Whats really foolish is how oblivious you are to your own stupidity. Not get off the floor, its not helping your image..... Or your intelligence. :p

#234 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@LadyBlue

I can't make that argument just yet, not enough evidence. so for now I have to stick with the "Formula" argument.

@freedomfreak

damn, you're lazy..... If you're gona be wrong about something, put some god damn energy and passion into it. Failure to do so shows a lack of respect to your gamespotting bretheren and sisteren.

@Krelian-co

Whats really foolish is how oblivious you are to your own stupidity. Not get off the floor, its not helping your image..... Or your intelligence. :p

#235 Posted by GreySeal9 (24114 posts) -
#236 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

And while you're at it, Play Lost in Nightmares.

RE5 DLC was bad.

i played the pc version so i wouldn't know about it, but i doubt a dlc will change anything after so many horror games i have played (it is my favorite genre after all)

#237 Edited by uninspiredcup (7861 posts) -

@biggest_loser said:

After a few hours I thought it was a masterful game. In terms of scale and the detail of the world there aren't too many that can match it.

I found practically every aspect to be broken. the biggest being stealth. A difference exists between "high damage" and "god mode".

It's staggering how this game sits with a 96% metacritic when the very foundation it sits on is pretty much broken. I guess reviewers are more interested in nice presentation than game mechanics.

#238 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Vaasman

And how did we wind up talking about film genres ?

Please don't act stupid, you're way too convincing at it.

#239 Posted by Krelian-co (10424 posts) -

@LadyBlue

I can't make that argument just yet, not enough evidence. so for now I have to stick with the "Formula" argument.

@freedomfreak

damn, you're lazy..... If you're gona be wrong about something, put some god damn energy and passion into it. Failure to do so shows a lack of respect to your gamespotting bretheren and sisteren.

@Krelian-co

Whats really foolish is how oblivious you are to your own stupidity. Not get off the floor, its not helping your image..... Or your intelligence. :p

sure sure if you say so xD

nothing like someone that always argues stupid things that everyone knows are stupid things and then arguing about intelligence, oh well the irony is strong with this one, go on.

#240 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@GreySeal9

The fact that I don't even know the female equivalent of the word "Bretheren" is a testament to whats wrong with this world, especially where the gaming comunity is concerned.

@Krelian-co

I'm not good at insulting people like you are, now when you're done patting yourself on the back (because Who else would do it ?), Grow up and lets talk about stupid video games like mature adults ! Don't laugh, I'm being serious... Mostly.

#241 Edited by Vaasman (11267 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Vaasman

And how did we wind up talking about film genres ?

Please don't act stupid, you're way too convincing at it.

The topic is genres you ass, I'm bringing forward an analogy and the dictionary definition of genres that proves you wrong, and obviously from this post you can't handle that.

By the logic you used to develop your shit theory, we would be removing almost all genres from all media, as they're all just variations on top of another base genre, which is something that is genuinely stupid.

#242 Posted by jg4xchamp (47418 posts) -

After a few hours I thought it was a masterful game. In terms of scale and the detail of the world there aren't too many that can match it.

Yeah and then when you get over the world, and start looking at what it does on an actual gameplay level: it's less masterful in execution.

Everyone of its short comings is usually apologized with "bu bu the scale they are making it at"...who cares? you put action driven combat in your game that is stiff and unsatisfying, you put a buttload of dungeons in your game that are complete copy n paste jobs, you replaced the shitty level scaling in oblivion, with having to deal with majority of the same enemies over and over again in dungeons based on how you build your character, you have an rpg build system that is better suited for creating all around characters with no impunity with no system of checks and balances, the questing itself never goes above mediocre.

it's claim to fame is that it gives you a giant toy box to explore, and that works if you're looking for some grade A escapism. Few devs build better worlds than Bethesda. But the actual game they create is shallow.

#243 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Vaasman

And the context was within video games. Something you precious dictionary obvious didn't help you with. And why did you use a passive analogy on an interactive medium ? Whats wrong with you ?

#244 Posted by freedomfreak (39214 posts) -

damn, you're lazy..... If you're gona be wrong about something, put some god damn energy and passion into it. Failure to do so shows a lack of respect to your gamespotting bretheren and sisteren.

20 minutes of the same 4 encounters with some of the lamest puzzles known to gaming just as an excuse to create a "throwback" to classic RE games=/=good.

#245 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@freedomfreak

If you though it was bad then they have successfully recreated classic President Evil gameplay. so there.

#246 Edited by Vaasman (11267 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Vaasman

And the context was within video games. Something you precious dictionary obvious didn't help you with. And why did you use a passive analogy on an interactive medium ? Whats wrong with you ?

Genre is a term that has one meaning that is applied to all media. That doesn't suddenly change when video games are involved you fucking idiot. The only difference is that game genres are more concerned with differences in mechanics and less with thematics. RPG's are a genre by all definitions and by all accounts, save yours.

If you have so little confidence in your stupid idea that you can't even attempt to refute that fact, and instead have to resort to being a petty twat, that's your problem, not mine.

#247 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16678 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Oh how wrong you are good sir. How wrong you are.

#248 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Vaasman

Actually yeah it kinda does, out of "all media" video games are nothing like books, movies, pictures and music. Its why video game genres don't even use even the same naming system that other genres do.

#249 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer

Juggling three arguments here, buddy, you're gonna have to be more specific than that. :p

#250 Edited by Vaasman (11267 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Vaasman

Actually yeah it kinda does, out of "all media" video games are nothing like books, movies, pictures and music. Its why video game genres don't even use even the same naming system that other genres do.

Are you even being serious?

So because video games are different we should completely rewrite all logic for how the English language works and what words mean? Especially given that the words are actively used the appropriate way by nearly every established publisher, news outlet, forum, and developer.

lol no, just stop, seriously. You don't have a single ounce of support for this absurd concept.