Why am I supposed to hate DRM?

I misread your post, thought you were some kinda pro DRM poster.m25105

INDEED! That's what a person prone to knee-jerk responses would think.

Also, do read it again. I updated it to mention that even those who use pirated software would be affected by DRM too, albeit indirectly.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]Alright. If that's how you feel. I just don't understand how it's any different. I install a game through steam. I hit "make desktop shortcut". I minimize steam to the taskbar. I launch game with desktop shortcut. Exactly like I always did in the years before steam.Gelugon_baat

Well, if you can put up with that, good for you.

To me, I will always keep in mind that there's some loader client which is sucking up resources in the background, which I have to tweak often to prevent it from running other processes automatically without my consent and which I have to update manually because I don't want automated notifications getting in my face whenever I am doing something else other than manually updating Steam and the games shackled to it.

if your pc is having a heart attack using up 50mb of RAM, there's bigger issues

You know how many seconds it takes for me to play a game I own on steam or origin? None. It literally takes less than a second to click on play.Brean24

Well, f*cking lucky you then.

Whenever I don't use Steam in offline mode, it spends time and bandwidth checking with the servers of Valve's regional Steam-hosting partners to verify the licenses that I purchased and the build number of the games before I can even play them.

if your pc is having a heart attack using up 50mb of RAM, there's bigger issueswis3boi

This is not about resource usage.

I knew of a time when games did not have to be played with an annoying client software. To me, that era was far more convenient than now, when loader clients are so pervasive.

Also, those few dozen MBs are still a few dozen too much to me, especially considering that computer games can be made to run without a loader client.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="m25105"] This is just lol. You're missing the point so much that your counter is accusing people of something you have no clue if they actually do.

 

1. DRM affects legit customers.

2. Pirates aren't.

3. Legit customers complain about DRM.

 

There.

Brean24

It really is this simple. People who still act as apologists for DRM, even as publishers are turning away from the practice, seem to have developed some bizzare kind of stockholm syndrome. It's like they were kidnapped, and now their captors are saying, "our plan backfired, we're not getting any ransom money, so you're free to go, and we're just gonna slink away before the police show up", and they're sitting there, kicking and screaming, saying, "NO! don't let me go! I don't want to go back to my life and my family!"

I have no problem with Steam and Origin. I've said that countless times in this very thread. I don't consider them to be "DRM". When I'm talking about DRM, I'm talking about the stuff which  actually is  an inconvenience for the customer. Things like securom, always online requirements, limited installs, repeated activations, limited activations, de-activation requirements upon uninstall, loader programs that don't do anything else to make up for the inconvenience, etc. You may not consider those to be inconveniences, but millions of people do, and for perfectly legitimate reasons. And the point is, pirates don't ever have to deal with any of that.

[QUOTE="Brean24"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

It really is this simple. People who still act as apologists for DRM, even as publishers are turning away from the practice, seem to have developed some bizzare kind of stockholm syndrome. It's like they were kidnapped, and now their captors are saying, "our plan backfired, we're not getting any ransom money, so you're free to go, and we're just gonna slink away before the police show up", and they're sitting there, kicking and screaming, saying, "NO! don't let me go! I don't want to go back to my life and my family!"

the_bi99man

I have no problem with Steam and Origin. I've said that countless times in this very thread. I don't consider them to be "DRM". When I'm talking about DRM, I'm talking about the stuff which  actually is  an inconvenience for the customer. Things like securom, always online requirements, limited installs, repeated activations, limited activations, de-activation requirements upon uninstall, loader programs that don't do anything else to make up for the inconvenience, etc. You may not consider those to be inconveniences, but millions of people do, and for perfectly legitimate reasons. And the point is, pirates don't ever have to deal with any of that.

For someone who has issues with the Internet, Steam may well be an "inconvenience for the customer" as u put it.FelipeInside

Offline mode. It exists. It works flawlessly.

Unless the "inconvenience" being caused by your bad internet is that you can't dowload games, or play multiplayer. And if that's the inconvenience, it's not the DRM's fault. 

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]For someone who has issues with the Internet, Steam may well be an "inconvenience for the customer" as u put it.the_bi99man

Offline mode. It exists. It works flawlessly.

Unless the "inconvenience" being caused by your bad internet is that you can't dowload games, or play multiplayer. And if that's the inconvenience, it's not the DRM's fault. 

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]For someone who has issues with the Internet, Steam may well be an "inconvenience for the customer" as u put it.FelipeInside

Offline mode. It exists. It works flawlessly.

Unless the "inconvenience" being caused by your bad internet is that you can't dowload games, or play multiplayer. And if that's the inconvenience, it's not the DRM's fault. 

I've played every single non-multiplayer game I own in offline mode. Never had a single issue. In fact, I keep steam in offline mode, by default, and only let it connect when I want to shop, download a game, or play counterstrike. 

And yeah, if you want to play a multiplayer game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's a multiplayer game. It needs internet. 

If you're trying to download a game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's because you're trying to  download  a game. That needs internet. You can't expect to download a digitally distributed game without internet. Once it's installed, internet issues don't matter.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

Offline mode. It exists. It works flawlessly.

Unless the "inconvenience" being caused by your bad internet is that you can't dowload games, or play multiplayer. And if that's the inconvenience, it's not the DRM's fault. 

the_bi99man

I've played every single non-multiplayer game I own in offline mode. Never had a single issue. In fact, I keep steam in offline mode, by default, and only let it connect when I want to shop, download a game, or play counterstrike. 

And yeah, if you want to play a multiplayer game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's a multiplayer game. It needs internet. 

If you're trying to download a game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's because you're trying to  download  a game. That needs internet. You can't expect to download a digitally distributed game without internet. Once it's installed, internet issues don't matter.

Nope, it DOES matter.  Not always but most of the time.  Patches or Updates etc.  Some games these days you buy retail box and then it needs a 1GB update just to start.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] It exists, it doesn't work flawlessly as you think it does (how many games have u tried to play offline?) "And if that's the inconvenience, it's not the DRM's fault." I don't agree again sorry. If Steam didn't exist, you might not need a stable internet.FelipeInside

I've played every single non-multiplayer game I own in offline mode. Never had a single issue. In fact, I keep steam in offline mode, by default, and only let it connect when I want to shop, download a game, or play counterstrike. 

And yeah, if you want to play a multiplayer game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's a multiplayer game. It needs internet. 

If you're trying to download a game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's because you're trying to  download  a game. That needs internet. You can't expect to download a digitally distributed game without internet. Once it's installed, internet issues don't matter.

Nope, it DOES matter.  Not always but most of the time.  Patches or Updates etc.  Some games these days you buy retail box and then it needs a 1GB update just to start.

When that's the case, it's because the developer decided to put out a day one patch. It's not because of Steam. And if you literally don't have any internet connection at all, you're probably not gaming, or using steam. If you have a connection, but it's just not all that great, then you can probably handle downloading a patch. Maybe it'll take a while. If that's the case, then yeah, there's an inconvenience. A small one, which is, in my opinion, more than made up for by the other conveniences of having the game on steam. And yes, I've been in that exact situation myself, back when I lived in the dead center of Alaska, with an internet connection that was spotty as hell, and only gave me download speeds of like 200kb/s, at best. Needing to download a patch on day one was annoying, but I still enjoy the other conveniences of steam. And once the patch is done, and the game is ready to play, I just uncheck auto-update, and put steam in offline mode. A one time issue, never to be worried about again.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

I've played every single non-multiplayer game I own in offline mode. Never had a single issue. In fact, I keep steam in offline mode, by default, and only let it connect when I want to shop, download a game, or play counterstrike. 

And yeah, if you want to play a multiplayer game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's a multiplayer game. It needs internet. 

If you're trying to download a game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's because you're trying to  download  a game. That needs internet. You can't expect to download a digitally distributed game without internet. Once it's installed, internet issues don't matter.

the_bi99man

Nope, it DOES matter.  Not always but most of the time.  Patches or Updates etc.  Some games these days you buy retail box and then it needs a 1GB update just to start.

When that's the case, it's because the developer decided to put out a day one patch. It's not because of Steam. And if you literally don't have any internet connection at all, you're probably not gaming, or using steam. If you have a connection, but it's just not all that great, then you can probably handle downloading a patch. Maybe it'll take a while. If that's the case, then yeah, there's an inconvenience. A small one, which is, in my opinion, more than made up for by the other conveniences of having the game on steam. And yes, I've been in that exact situation myself, back when I lived in the dead center of Alaska, with an internet connection that was spotty as hell, and only gave me download speeds of like 200kb/s, at best. Needing to download a patch on day one was annoying, but I still enjoy the other conveniences of steam. And once the patch is done, and the game is ready to play, I just uncheck auto-update, and put steam in offline mode. A one time issue, never to be worried about again.

I have the hatred for securom, activation based DRM, and always on because I've been burned by each before.

I bought Medieval 2: Kingdoms and it wouldn't work in my computer because securom messed with it. Tried the other computers and it worked fine, literally the only game that this ever happened with. After that I refused to buy anything with securom.

I accidently bought a game with activations (Assault on Dark Athena?) and ran out of activations because I installed and then upgraded my computer a few times (my paycheck being low forced me to doing periodic upgrades over the course of a few weeks). Now I suddently couldn't play my game and I had to email support begging for more activations so I could play the game I have SITTING ON MY HARD DRIVE. No more activation based games for me. Only goofed on Disciples Reincarnation, really should look into getting a refund on that one.

Diablo 3 looked good so I preordered it. What followed at launch was 3 long days of downtime and not being able to play the game because it was all serverside. No more always on games for me.

I want to buy a game and know that once its downloaded and installed that all I need to do is tweak settings and look for mods. Fighting with DRM is not my idea of fun, in fact its something I hate more then actual problems with the game because most of those I can fix myself.

I accidently bought a game with activations (Assault on Dark Athena?) and ran out of activations because I installed and then upgraded my computer a few times (my paycheck being low forced me to doing periodic upgrades over the course of a few weeks). Now I suddently couldn't play my game and I had to email support begging for more activations so I could play the game I have SITTING ON MY HARD DRIVE. No more activation based games for me. Only goofed on Disciples Reincarnation, really should look into getting a refund on that one.

Whiteblade999

Not defending DRM but in that case it was a weird situation where u were upgrading constantly inside a week, which doesn't happen often.

Best course of action would have been to uninstall the game and get the activation back first.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] It exists, it doesn't work flawlessly as you think it does (how many games have u tried to play offline?) "And if that's the inconvenience, it's not the DRM's fault." I don't agree again sorry. If Steam didn't exist, you might not need a stable internet.FelipeInside

I've played every single non-multiplayer game I own in offline mode. Never had a single issue. In fact, I keep steam in offline mode, by default, and only let it connect when I want to shop, download a game, or play counterstrike. 

And yeah, if you want to play a multiplayer game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's a multiplayer game. It needs internet. 

If you're trying to download a game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's because you're trying to  download  a game. That needs internet. You can't expect to download a digitally distributed game without internet. Once it's installed, internet issues don't matter.

Nope, it DOES matter.  Not always but most of the time.  Patches or Updates etc.  Some games these days you buy retail box and then it needs a 1GB update just to start.

steam options --> "keep this game updated" --> uncheck

Have fun

steam options --> "keep this game updated" --> uncheckwis3boi

It doesn't change the fact that some games have to be run via the loader client anyway.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]steam options --> "keep this game updated" --> uncheckGelugon_baat

It doesn't change the fact that some games have to be run via the loader client anyway.

Yeah, but I really don't think very many people see that as as much of an inconvenience as you do.

Yeah, but I really don't think very many people see that as as much of an inconvenience as you do.the_bi99man

Now if only those who don't see that, such as wis3boi, would understand that people like me certainly do. Then, hopefully, they would lay off the cynical advice as well as realize that people like me don't want to use Steam more than they want to.

I, for one, certainly do not believe that with just some settings tweaks, Steam and the likes of it would be palatable to me.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

I've played every single non-multiplayer game I own in offline mode. Never had a single issue. In fact, I keep steam in offline mode, by default, and only let it connect when I want to shop, download a game, or play counterstrike. 

And yeah, if you want to play a multiplayer game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's a multiplayer game. It needs internet. 

If you're trying to download a game, but you can't because your internet sucks, that's not the DRM's fault. It's because you're trying to  download  a game. That needs internet. You can't expect to download a digitally distributed game without internet. Once it's installed, internet issues don't matter.

wis3boi

Nope, it DOES matter.  Not always but most of the time.  Patches or Updates etc.  Some games these days you buy retail box and then it needs a 1GB update just to start.

steam options --> "keep this game updated" --> uncheck

Have fun

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Nope, it DOES matter.  Not always but most of the time.  Patches or Updates etc.  Some games these days you buy retail box and then it needs a 1GB update just to start.

FelipeInside

steam options --> "keep this game updated" --> uncheck

Have fun

because running certain games without critical updates is a bad idea

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]Yeah, but I really don't think very many people see that as as much of an inconvenience as you do.Gelugon_baat

Now if only those who don't see that, such as wis3boi, would understand that people like me certainly do. Then, hopefully, they would lay off the cynical advice as well as realize that people like me don't want to use Steam more than they want to.

I, for one, certainly do not believe that with just some settings tweaks, Steam and the likes of it would be palatable to me.

I'm not that old fashioned and steam keeps my online community alive, of which I help with forums, voip, organizing events, etc.  Steam comes up automatically when windows boots for me, and launching a game is one click of my mouse away.  I'm sorry you find this frustrating and difficult

not every country has got good internet services . not having a good net connection shouldn't stop me from playing a game

AcidThunder

This x999999

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

steam options --> "keep this game updated" --> uncheck

 

Have fun

wis3boi

because running certain games without critical updates is a bad idea

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] You did read the part where I said "just to start" right?FelipeInside

because running certain games without critical updates is a bad idea

I take my entire steam library with me on my laptop and external drive with my regularly on trips with zero internet accessand have no issues.  Obviously I can't load BF3, Diablo 3....regular other games? No problem. 

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

because running certain games without critical updates is a bad idea

wis3boi

I take my entire steam library with me on my laptop and external drive with my regularly on trips with zero internet accessand have no issues.  Obviously I can't load BF3, Diablo 3....regular other games? No problem. 

I'm sorry you find this frustrating and difficultwis3boi

One day, when Valve's current and very beneficent leadership is no longer around, you are going to rue the day you decided that every game of yours is to be played through Steam.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]Yeah, but I really don't think very many people see that as as much of an inconvenience as you do.Gelugon_baat

Now if only those who don't see that, such as wis3boi, would understand that people like me certainly do. Then, hopefully, they would lay off the cynical advice as well as realize that people like me don't want to use Steam more than they want to.

I, for one, certainly do not believe that with just some settings tweaks, Steam and the likes of it would be palatable to me.

i think i get where you're coming from. for me steam still has more advantages as disadvantages but i don't like where it seems to be going. the biggest issue for me is that steam isn't a simple loader client and store that it once was anymore. it's more and more like it's pretending to be facebook or something (status updates? seriously?). all this is fine for people who want that stuff but i just want to play a game every now and then and have no interest in all the rest but i have no way to turn it off, get the basic version or whatever. when it first launched it felt like unnecessary software being shoved down our throats, then it did a really good job of showing that it can offer benefits too and actually be a valuable service, but now that shoving down my throat feeling is starting to make a come-back. and it doesn't help that all publishers seem to be embracing this model of their own loader client.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] You miss the point.... you basically CANNOT run it all since it needs that 1GB update or whatever to even start....even though I purchased the DVD and installed from it. Like another poster said, not everyone has internet or good internet.FelipeInside

I take my entire steam library with me on my laptop and external drive with my regularly on trips with zero internet accessand have no issues.  Obviously I can't load BF3, Diablo 3....regular other games? No problem. 

Offline mode is there for that reason

[QUOTE="Gelugon_baat"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]Yeah, but I really don't think very many people see that as as much of an inconvenience as you do.wis3boi

Now if only those who don't see that, such as wis3boi, would understand that people like me certainly do. Then, hopefully, they would lay off the cynical advice as well as realize that people like me don't want to use Steam more than they want to.

I, for one, certainly do not believe that with just some settings tweaks, Steam and the likes of it would be palatable to me.

I'm not that old fashioned and steam keeps my online community alive, of which I help with forums, voip, organizing events, etc.  Steam comes up automatically when windows boots for me, and launching a game is one click of my mouse away.  I'm sorry you find this frustrating and difficult

Secondly, you're a very condescending poster who always thinks they are right and obviously thinks they are much smarter than they are. I haven't read a single post on this board authored by you that was memorable or even worth reading.SKaREO

oh that irony, so thick a knife couldn't cut it

[QUOTE="AcidThunder"]

not every country has got good internet services . not having a good net connection shouldn't stop me from playing a game

_SKatEDiRt_

This x999999

[QUOTE="_SKatEDiRt_"]

[QUOTE="AcidThunder"]

not every country has got good internet services . not having a good net connection shouldn't stop me from playing a game

Brean24

This x999999

[QUOTE="_SKatEDiRt_"]

[QUOTE="AcidThunder"]

not every country has got good internet services . not having a good net connection shouldn't stop me from playing a game

Brean24

This x999999

[QUOTE="Brean24"][QUOTE="_SKatEDiRt_"]

This x999999

Lost-to-Apathy

[QUOTE="Lost-to-Apathy"][QUOTE="Brean24"] But most developed countries do have good internet services. A majority of people in the united states who actually game have a constant internet connection. Hundreds of millions in China have a constant internet connection. Millions in Japan, South Korea, United Kingdom, Germany, Spain and pretty much every single country that isn't a 3rd world country has decent internet services. Of course some places don't. When your in a country like Nigera in which literally over 90 percent live on less than 2 dollars a day(that's a fact, I'm not pulling that out of my ass) of course your going to see a reduction in modern infrastructure. You can't run a entire industry based on a small minority of gamers who either don't have internet or are old and don't like change. Edit: Don't take everything I say seriously if you want your sanity intact :PBrean24

Just because a game has multiplayer experience, does not mean it should always require an internet connection to boot up.  I should be able to play diablo 3 without internet access when I'm away, but alas, silly decisions say NOPE CANT DO THAT

^Yup. I'm glad someone on this forum has a brain. Seriously, only fools are easily brainwashed by publisher's excuses to slap nasty DRM on their products and come up with illogical reasons why it must have DRM.

Same could be said with DLC. First, it was the "we couldn't finish the game the way we wanted so we had to cut content out" and then later sell that "said" content as DLC for $5-20 or whatever the price it may be.  Why not release it to customers who paid $ for it, as added DLC later but free.  Because, it's not like we didn't pay $60 for the game... It's ridiculous how quickly people have forgotten about content being sold as DLC was found on the core game disc.

[QUOTE="Lost-to-Apathy"][QUOTE="Brean24"] But most developed countries do have good internet services. A majority of people in the united states who actually game have a constant internet connection. Hundreds of millions in China have a constant internet connection. Millions in Japan, South Korea, United Kingdom, Germany, Spain and pretty much every single country that isn't a 3rd world country has decent internet services. Of course some places don't. When your in a country like Nigera in which literally over 90 percent live on less than 2 dollars a day(that's a fact, I'm not pulling that out of my ass) of course your going to see a reduction in modern infrastructure. You can't run a entire industry based on a small minority of gamers who either don't have internet or are old and don't like change. Edit: Don't take everything I say seriously if you want your sanity intact :PBrean24

[QUOTE="Brean24"][QUOTE="Lost-to-Apathy"] Why should an always online connection ever be required for what is essentially a single player, offline experience? It doesn't make sense why anyone would support this idea. My internet connection never goes down. I still think it's stupid as hell to require a constant internet connection. For multiplayer, I totally understand. But why in the hell should it ever be mandatory for single player games? Lost-to-Apathy

[QUOTE="Lost-to-Apathy"]

[QUOTE="Brean24"] Because single player games often have multiplayer elements. Everything is connected by the internet. Your right. An always online connection for a truly offline single player game is stupid. But the reality is that offline single player games are on the decline. And by that I mean games like Demon Souls uses the internet to enhance the single player experience. Demon Souls and Dark Souls was just the start. It can be argued that blending single player and multiplayer is a bad idea, or even that rightfully so it reduces or eliminates player choice. But you can't argue that with the introduction of cloud-based services and social elements that a online-only experience is becoming increasingly justified. It may sound stupid to you, and that's okay, but people vote with their money. If they didn't like the way this industry is heading, their money isn't representing their opinions. The vocal minority is just that, a vocal minority. Honestly, I'm a part of that vocal minority. I believe that there should always be a offline option, but only if it makes sense. However at the same time I'm not going to let that keep me away from playing and enjoying the latest AAA and often awesome games. Yes internet is not caught up with the technology. But it will be, and it will be soon. You have countries like Australia that are spending billions of dollars in building infrastructure to increase internet coverage. Every single year millions of more people are connected to the internet. Brean24

DRM isn't just designed to stop piracy. It's also designed to combat second hand game sales (sales which the developers & publishers never see a penny of).Cyrez60659

What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all? Drm has not been a issue for me, but I can see how it can be annoying, but I bet having your game pirated a million times is even worse. They keep trying new things, till they find one that works or people stop stealing games, we just have to deal with it, stop crying like whiny brats.Advid-Gamer

Dear God, you just don't get it, do you?

Company spends millions on DRM to combat piracy, pirates crack it usually before the game is even out, money down the drain, legit consumers have to deal with the at times very intrusive DRM, pirates laugh their asses off and continues to play.

If you make a good game people will buy it, that's been proven over and over again. Quality is the best way to prevent lost sales to piracy.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all? Drm has not been a issue for me, but I can see how it can be annoying, but I bet having your game pirated a million times is even worse. They keep trying new things, till they find one that works or people stop stealing games, we just have to deal with it, stop crying like whiny brats.m25105

Dear God, you just don't get it, do you?

Company spends millions on DRM to combat piracy, pirates crack it usually before the game is even out, money down the drain, legit consumers have to deal with the at times very intrusive DRM, pirates laugh their asses off and continues to play.

If you make a good game people will buy it, that's been proven over and over again. Quality is the best way to prevent lost sales to piracy.

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all? Drm has not been a issue for me, but I can see how it can be annoying, but I bet having your game pirated a million times is even worse. They keep trying new things, till they find one that works or people stop stealing games, we just have to deal with it, stop crying like whiny brats.Brean24

Dear God, you just don't get it, do you?

Company spends millions on DRM to combat piracy, pirates crack it usually before the game is even out, money down the drain, legit consumers have to deal with the at times very intrusive DRM, pirates laugh their asses off and continues to play.

If you make a good game people will buy it, that's been proven over and over again. Quality is the best way to prevent lost sales to piracy.

1st. Just to make it clear (even though you didn't wrote it) I don't condone piracy, I think it's pretty low to pirate a game. Especially indie games like the ones you just wrote about. 2nd, I have pirated and probably will pirate old games that I once had the cd for. However because of gog.com most of those games have since been bought. The only two games I have now that I pirated are Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat (a game from 1995), The Curse of Monkey Island (a game from 1998) and Discworld: Noir (a game from 1999) note that back then I bought the games legally, but have since lost the CD.

Now back to the issue of DRM, Spore is probably one of the best examples of why DRM doesn't work. It was one of the most intrusive DRM in gaming for thost that bought the game legally, but it was also one of the most pirated games, showing why DRM doesn't work.

Now about the Witcher 2, there's an article from the developers of the Witcher 2 that explains why they still don't believe DRM is the way to go, despite the piracy rate. Source.

Had the Witcher 2 been a bad game, it wouldn't have made the numbers it did, in terms of copies sold. But it did, so that means while it was pirated, it could've been much much worse. You can't stop people from pirating if they choose to do so, but by making quality games, you can at least get more people to buy it legally. And World of Goo also made a decent profit, despite the high piracy rate (seriously Pirates... why? It's not like it was a super expensive game in the first place. Take advantage of steam deals for crying out loud). Still, the developers of World of Goo had this to say

by the way, just in case its not 100% clear, were not angry about piracy, we still think that DRM is a waste of time and money, we dont think that were losing sales due to piracy, and we have no intention of trying to fight it.

About the always online, I didn't buy SimCity and I stopped playing Diablo 3 cause it was a dissapointment, but I doubt it was cause of Piracy that Diablo 3 had an always online feature, it seems more like they added it cause of their real money AH. Assassin's Creed 2 had an always online feature, but that got cracked real fast.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all? Drm has not been a issue for me, but I can see how it can be annoying, but I bet having your game pirated a million times is even worse. They keep trying new things, till they find one that works or people stop stealing games, we just have to deal with it, stop crying like whiny brats.m25105

Dear God, you just don't get it, do you?

Company spends millions on DRM to combat piracy, pirates crack it usually before the game is even out, money down the drain, legit consumers have to deal with the at times very intrusive DRM, pirates laugh their asses off and continues to play.

If you make a good game people will buy it, that's been proven over and over again. Quality is the best way to prevent lost sales to piracy.