Why am I supposed to hate DRM?

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"] Dear god, oh I get it, I understand all the BS that goes on here. Miroku32

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"] Dear god, oh I get it, I understand all the BS that goes on here. Miroku32

stockholm syndrome

The grand majority of the time DRM usually is invasive, burdenous, and requires the legit user to jump through hoops that the people who didn't pay for it often don't have to jump through.

Sometimes its less noticeable. 

Other times it almost breaks the game entirely, can keep you from actually installing it. 

Other times it actually costs more resources to run some other BS background service, or require that you are connected to some server to play a single player game. 

If it was truly all about securing profits for the devs then why would you make it difficult for the people who paid for your stuff, to use it. I mean people who buy, or rent, dvd's have to watch that BS piracy is not a victim-less crime nonsense at the beginning of most of them. Such a luxury paying to sit through yet another redundant screen before you can get to the movie.

What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all?Advid-Gamer

Exactly.

It IS a lost cause, and every penny and/or man-hour invested by publishers into DRM schemes is wasted money.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all?the_bi99man

Exactly.

It IS a lost cause, and every penny and/or man-hour invested by publishers into DRM schemes is wasted money.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]What's the alternative then? For the developers to do nothing, just don't even bother to try and stop piracy at all?FelipeInside

Exactly.

It IS a lost cause, and every penny and/or man-hour invested by publishers into DRM schemes is wasted money.

True. Let me know when any DRM other than Diablo 3 style always online manages to even begin to do either.

[QUOTE="Cyrez60659"]DRM isn't just designed to stop piracy. It's also designed to combat second hand game sales (sales which the developers & publishers never see a penny of).m25105

While I agree, I must point out...

We already have an epidemic of wasted resources. Making each vehicle thumbprint authorized would worsen that considerably even being only a single factor.

As funny as that thought is, it honestly isn't far-fetched when you look at how so many over-value security as it is now. I mean some families all over the country have already volunteered for chips to be put into their children (so they can find them if they get lost or taken).

The basking in the illusion of security is getting ridiculous, and completely out of hand.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

Exactly.

It IS a lost cause, and every penny and/or man-hour invested by publishers into DRM schemes is wasted money.

the_bi99man

True. Let me know when any DRM other than Diablo 3 style always online manages to even begin to do either.

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows? but many DRMs in the past have slowed down piracy.

Let me try to use an analogy:

Just because we haven't found a cure for Cancer, does it mean we should stop trying? Even if it means a bit of discomfort for a minority?

 

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows?

FelipeInside

Then that marks the end of my gaming career and the same for many others.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

 

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows?

wis3boi

Then that marks the end of my gaming career and the same for many others.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

 

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows?

FelipeInside

Then that marks the end of my gaming career and the same for many others.

it didnt work for simcity.  It killed the game

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Then that marks the end of my gaming career and the same for many others.

wis3boi

it didnt work for simcity.  It killed the game

While I don't condone piracy, it is ignorant to think that a pirated copy is a lost sale. Many people who pirate would never purchase the game anyway. Just like how Steam and other DD sales get more people buying copies at discounted rates than most retail stores can. People won't always buy a $60 game, but when it drops to $20 and even $5, you'll see more people purchasing. Pirating is the same. At the low, low cost of $0, of course more people are going to download/pirate. But even if pirating didn't exist - those freeloaders wouldn't necessarily go out and buy the game, at any price.

While I don't condone piracy, it is ignorant to think that a pirated copy is a lost sale. Many people who pirate would never purchase the game anyway. Just like how Steam and other DD sales get more people buying copies at discounted rates than most retail stores can. People won't always buy a $60 game, but when it drops to $20 and even $5, you'll see more people purchasing. Pirating is the same. At the low, low cost of $0, of course more people are going to download/pirate. But even if pirating didn't exist - those freeloaders wouldn't necessarily go out and buy the game, at any price.

Cwagmire21

I see your point and agree, but it's not 100% accurate.

SOME (keyword: some) pirates actually WILL go out and buy a copy if the pirated version is buggy, or too hard to get working, or taking too long to be released.

Like you said, most of them won't.... but some will.  

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] I'm not saying every game is going to do that (you need a lot of resources and money), just saying that it seems to be the best working one so far. I don't know what will happen in the future.FelipeInside

it didnt work for simcity.  It killed the game

most of the population has left the game, and barely anyone uses the multiplayer features, even EA admits this.  Vast wastelands of regions sit empty with abandoned cities thanks to continued bugs and a lack of effort from the developers.  The opening month of server issues thanks to the required internet connection (that maxis lied through their teeth about, saying the servers do simulation calculations, which it doesnt) drove people to stop trying to play long term.

[QUOTE="Cwagmire21"]

While I don't condone piracy, it is ignorant to think that a pirated copy is a lost sale. Many people who pirate would never purchase the game anyway. Just like how Steam and other DD sales get more people buying copies at discounted rates than most retail stores can. People won't always buy a $60 game, but when it drops to $20 and even $5, you'll see more people purchasing. Pirating is the same. At the low, low cost of $0, of course more people are going to download/pirate. But even if pirating didn't exist - those freeloaders wouldn't necessarily go out and buy the game, at any price.

FelipeInside

I see your point and agree, but it's not 100% accurate.

SOME (keyword: some) pirates actually WILL go out and buy a copy if the pirated version is buggy, or too hard to get working, or taking too long to be released.

Like you said, most of them won't.... but some will.  

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Stopping (or slowing down) Piracy isn't a Lost Cause by any means.FelipeInside

True. Let me know when any DRM other than Diablo 3 style always online manages to even begin to do either.

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows? but many DRMs in the past have slowed down piracy.

Have they? As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend who exclusively pirates games (the guy who didn't even know what DRM is, since he never has to deal with it), and he's had every single big name game I've ever heard of, day one. And several of them sooner than day one. I played Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon at his house before Ubisoft even officially confirmed that the game existed.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, I do remember him saying that the cracked copies of Black Ops 2 which were available day one were buggy as hell, crashed frequently, and didn't have a functioning Zombies.exe. But he also said that was all fixed with a new crack a couple weeks later.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

True. Let me know when any DRM other than Diablo 3 style always online manages to even begin to do either.

the_bi99man

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows? but many DRMs in the past have slowed down piracy.

Have they? As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend who exclusively pirates games (the guy who didn't even know what DRM is, since he never has to deal with it), and he's had every single big name game I've ever heard of, day one. And several of them sooner than day one. I played Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon at his house before Ubisoft even officially confirmed that the game existed.

And I have many friends who pirate games, yet most of them went out and bought GTA4 cause they were desperate to play it...and the pirated version took long to come out or something.  

You always say DRM isn't a lost sale... but in that example (which hasn't been the only one either btw), Rockstar got 3 more sales.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows? but many DRMs in the past have slowed down piracy.

FelipeInside

Have they? As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend who exclusively pirates games (the guy who didn't even know what DRM is, since he never has to deal with it), and he's had every single big name game I've ever heard of, day one. And several of them sooner than day one. I played Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon at his house before Ubisoft even officially confirmed that the game existed.

And I have many friends who pirate games, yet most of them went out and bought GTA4 cause they were desperate to play it...and the pirated version took long to come out or something.  

You always say DRM isn't a lost sale... but in that example (which hasn't been the only one either btw), Rockstar got 3 more sales.

I'm gonna assume you meant "you always say  piracy  isn't a lost sale", rather than "drm  isn't a lost sale". If that's the case, I've actually never said that. Not once. I'm not on that boat. I'm on the "DRM is an inconvenience to paying customers, and does nothing to hinder piracy" boat.

Edit: On the topic of GTA4, yeah, I guess there's one. Any others? GTA4 all by itself doesn't equate to "many DRMs in the past" that have been successful.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Maybe the D3 style is the only way to completely stop it.... who knows? but many DRMs in the past have slowed down piracy.

FelipeInside

Have they? As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend who exclusively pirates games (the guy who didn't even know what DRM is, since he never has to deal with it), and he's had every single big name game I've ever heard of, day one. And several of them sooner than day one. I played Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon at his house before Ubisoft even officially confirmed that the game existed.

And I have many friends who pirate games, yet most of them went out and bought GTA4 cause they were desperate to play it...and the pirated version took long to come out or something.  

You always say DRM isn't a lost sale... but in that example (which hasn't been the only one either btw), Rockstar got 3 more sales.

GTA4 can't really be cracked because it makes Niko drunk permanently

[QUOTE="Cwagmire21"]

While I don't condone piracy, it is ignorant to think that a pirated copy is a lost sale. Many people who pirate would never purchase the game anyway. Just like how Steam and other DD sales get more people buying copies at discounted rates than most retail stores can. People won't always buy a $60 game, but when it drops to $20 and even $5, you'll see more people purchasing. Pirating is the same. At the low, low cost of $0, of course more people are going to download/pirate. But even if pirating didn't exist - those freeloaders wouldn't necessarily go out and buy the game, at any price.

FelipeInside

I see your point and agree, but it's not 100% accurate.

SOME (keyword: some) pirates actually WILL go out and buy a copy if the pirated version is buggy, or too hard to get working, or taking too long to be released.

Like you said, most of them won't.... but some will.  

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

Have they? As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend who exclusively pirates games (the guy who didn't even know what DRM is, since he never has to deal with it), and he's had every single big name game I've ever heard of, day one. And several of them sooner than day one. I played Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon at his house before Ubisoft even officially confirmed that the game existed.

the_bi99man

And I have many friends who pirate games, yet most of them went out and bought GTA4 cause they were desperate to play it...and the pirated version took long to come out or something.  

You always say DRM isn't a lost sale... but in that example (which hasn't been the only one either btw), Rockstar got 3 more sales.

I'm gonna assume you meant "you always say  piracy  isn't a lost sale", rather than "drm  isn't a lost sale". If that's the case, I've actually never said that. Not once. I'm not on that boat. I'm on the "DRM is an inconvenience to paying customers, and does nothing to hinder piracy" boat.

Edit: On the topic of GTA4, yeah, I guess there's one. Any others? GTA4 all by itself doesn't equate to "many DRMs in the past" that have been successful.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

And I have many friends who pirate games, yet most of them went out and bought GTA4 cause they were desperate to play it...and the pirated version took long to come out or something.  

You always say DRM isn't a lost sale... but in that example (which hasn't been the only one either btw), Rockstar got 3 more sales.

FelipeInside

I'm gonna assume you meant "you always say  piracy  isn't a lost sale", rather than "drm  isn't a lost sale". If that's the case, I've actually never said that. Not once. I'm not on that boat. I'm on the "DRM is an inconvenience to paying customers, and does nothing to hinder piracy" boat.

Edit: On the topic of GTA4, yeah, I guess there's one. Any others? GTA4 all by itself doesn't equate to "many DRMs in the past" that have been successful.

Well then yeah. I've never said that. My stance is that DRM doesn't do anything to hinder piracy, and is a headache for real customers. If DRM actually  did  manage to hinder piracy, without going always online/not giving you the whole game, I might change my stance, because I do believe that in many cases, a pirated game  is  a lost sale, and the people who work hard to make these games deserve better than that.