What's wrong with Sharia?

[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I don't believe in the death penalty....I don't believe in mutilation as punishment. There is no reason for a man to hit his wife. While some choices people make have not so good consequences....a choice is an important aspect of development.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] There is a difference between making a bad choice and deciding to commit a terrible crime. Nayef_shroof

what did you hear about sharia that is so crazy?mayceV

You can't eat bacon? And... I'm out.

[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Teenage pregnancy and premarital sex are not crimes.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] They dont lead to death or mutilation, just a whipping...Nayef_shroof

What was? The Hadith? I suppose, but whats your point? There are Hadiths that are inarguable, while some have created controversy among the scholars debating certain pointsNayef_shroof

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

lol, where do you want to start?

1: death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?

2: lopping off body parts?

3: beating your wife?

4: death sentence for apostates?

5: jihad?

6: whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?

7: executing homosexuals?

8: crucifixion?

yeah, lets bring all that back.

pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.

Nayef_shroof

2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)

3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia

4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.

5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...

6: There is no stoning, just whipping

7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.

8: lolwut?

8.lolwut q5:33.

[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

lol, where do you want to start?

1: death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?

2: lopping off body parts?

3: beating your wife?

4: death sentence for apostates?

5: jihad?

6: whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?

7: executing homosexuals?

8: crucifixion?

yeah, lets bring all that back.

pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.

Riverwolf007

2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)

3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia

4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.

5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...

6: There is no stoning, just whipping

7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.

8: lolwut?

8.lolwut q5:33.

Barbaric punishment for petty crimes... No liquor or bacon... Oppression of women through strict dress codes. Limited freedom of speech. I mean what isn't wrong with it?

joesh89

To give a very basic answer, I'm in favor of the separation of church and state. As such, I am also in favor of the separation of any religious institution and state.mindstorm

I completely agree, in fact I think I am a bigger secularist than you, but I think the Western perception of Sharia is flawed at best. I'm not defending the theocracies, but to many Muslims Sharia doesn't mean a theocracy any more than, what's that Jewish set of laws, is it Hacidic Law? Anyways, any more than that law means there must be a theocracy to Orthodox Jews. I still find Sharia to be ridiculous, just like I find most religiously-based codes of laws to be ridiculous, but I'm just saying that Sharia does have its equivalents in the other Abrahamic religions and it isn't necessarily the same thing as wanting a theocracy.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

lol, where do you want to start?

1: death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?

2: lopping off body parts?

3: beating your wife?

4: death sentence for apostates?

5: jihad?

6: whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?

7: executing homosexuals?

8: crucifixion?

yeah, lets bring all that back.

pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.

2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)

3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia

4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.

5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...

6: There is no stoning, just whipping

7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.

8: lolwut?

[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Teenage pregnancy and premarital sex are not crimes.

LJS9502_basic

Maybe a better question is: What's wrong with living under whatever system you like, and keeping it to yourself? You wasnt lex talionis? OK. You want a number of guides to life and prohibitions? Fantastic, enjoy. The moment you want to impose that on me however, we have a problem.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] They dont lead to death or mutilation, just a whipping...mayceV

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] They dont lead to death or mutilation, just a whipping...Nayef_shroof

[QUOTE="mayceV"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Whipping is mutilation.Frame_Dragger

Maybe a better question is: What's wrong with living under whatever system you like, and keeping it to yourself? You wasnt lex talionis? OK. You want a number of guides to life and prohibitions? Fantastic, enjoy. The moment you want to impose that on me however, we have a problem.

Frame_Dragger

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="mayceV"] actually the whipper's elbow isn't supposed to leave his side while whipping. Meaning it isn't a punishment to hurt the person, rather to embaress him/her in public. Not to mutilate them. That is considered illeagal under sharia. So no it isn't mutilation its a public embaressment. Why? because virgins aren't allowed to marry fornicators. Fornicators are only allowed to marry other fornicators.

mayceV

Sharia, and any religious law of that age or earlier never even HEARD of those concepts... so no... no thank you. No lex talionis, no public shaming, no control over every aspect of how people conduct their private lives to please one group's beliefs. Still, most of that is an issue with the desire to impose Sharia, not Sharia itself. What is wrong with Sharia above all is what I keep saying: lex talionis.

Wow... four witnesses... better hope you haven't pissed off four people willing to lie, or that someone can't pay off four people. I mean,witness tampering just never happens, so its a perfet system!Beyond that, little known concept in the 8th century is how INCREDIBLY unreliable eye-witnesses are. That these punishments exist, along with every other possible act (again, lex talionis)... is something that should have been lost to time.

Maybe a better question is: What's wrong with living under whatever system you like, and keeping it to yourself? You wasnt lex talionis? OK. You want a number of guides to life and prohibitions? Fantastic, enjoy. The moment you want to impose that on me however, we have a problem.

also, lex talionis was never a part of the Quran it just states that the law system was made for the Children of Isreal not that it applied in Islam. It is seen as just and if a winning side wants to punish the criminal with a lex talionis punishment then that is permissble as long as it is of 3 kinds: Mrder on any degree or battery on any degree. Not based on hudud crimes the hudud crimes have a set punishment and tazir crimes are ruled by the state. So no there isn't much of lex talionis in sharia at all. mayceV

[QUOTE="mayceV"]also, lex talionis was never a part of the Quran it just states that the law system was made for the Children of Isreal not that it applied in Islam. It is seen as just and if a winning side wants to punish the criminal with a lex talionis punishment then that is permissble as long as it is of 3 kinds: Mrder on any degree or battery on any degree. Not based on hudud crimes the hudud crimes have a set punishment and tazir crimes are ruled by the state. So no there isn't much of lex talionis in sharia at all. Frame_Dragger

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="mayceV"]also, lex talionis was never a part of the Quran it just states that the law system was made for the Children of Isreal not that it applied in Islam. It is seen as just and if a winning side wants to punish the criminal with a lex talionis punishment then that is permissble as long as it is of 3 kinds: Mrder on any degree or battery on any degree. Not based on hudud crimes the hudud crimes have a set punishment and tazir crimes are ruled by the state. So no there isn't much of lex talionis in sharia at all. mayceV

How do you solve a problem like Sharia???xaos

Human being only do things that benift them.mayceV

[QUOTE="mayceV"]Human being only do things that benift them.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="mayceV"]Human being only do things that benift them.DigitalExile

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] That's debatable. ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="DigitalExile"]Hmm. I think it's probably true, at the end of the day people do things that make them feel good inside, whether an atheist thinks it's the right thing to do, or a Christian does it to get into heaven, or a Buddhist does it to keep the universe in balance. I doubt anything is truely selfless.

DigitalExile

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] When I feel bad for someone, the first thought in my mind is not, "If I help that person, I'll feel better," but "If I help that person, he/she will be happy." That observation, for me, shows that actions based on sympathy are selfless.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="DigitalExile"]It doesn't have to be conscious. Subconsciously helping others makes you feel better.

mayceV

To give a very basic answer, I'm in favor of the separation of church and state. As such, I am also in favor of the separation of any religious institution and state.mindstorm

[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] That's true. But I don't think such motivations are significant at the conscious level, with regards to affecting motives. Even if I subconsciously feel happy after helping someone, my happiness was not my goal; it's just an effect.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="mayceV"] There is some deep psychology behiend it. there i are a lot of factors that differ from person to person but in reality its true that although its not consiously every action is done for personal gain. what a person considers a gain differs from mindset to mind set but at the end of the day it is for gain. Don't think to much into it you'll probably hate humanity for it :lol:mayceV

they have extreme belief.

Religion has no place in law

I don't know much about it. What I do know though, is that there is an organisation here in Belgium called "Sharia for Belgium".
They want to make Belgium into a muslim nation under sharia law.

Just a bunch of idiots in my eyes.

I find absolutely nothing wrong with terrorist law

*Awaits moderations

October_Tide

Or something like that. The mods already know it.

[QUOTE="October_Tide"]

I find absolutely nothing wrong with terrorist law

*Awaits moderations

DigitalExile

Or something like that. The mods already know it.

Trollface = COMPLETE GLOBAL SATIRICALATION

EDIT: Why is this still here, says mods deleted it since someone called the WAAAAAmbulance.

Did you really have to make this TC? ?_?

In theory? Nothing that I can identify beyond a few outdated regulations; within the context of the ummah, it makes sense. In practice as it is executed by modern, fundamentalist Muslims? Absolute fail.foxhound_fox

Once again Fox, you are what I consider "enlightened" when it comes to religion. The Way (al-shar') is for the Ummah alone, so naturally, it is acceptable to Muslims.

Brothers thinking they can create an emirate in the UK is utter facepalm.

Okay first off don't point fingers at iran and Saudia they aren't a good representitive of Sharia because 1: Iran is Shiite and Shiites changed the rules of sharia. ( added thngs like timed marriges, changed the Quran and ECT.)

So people of off topic basically what did you hear about sharia that is so crazy?

mayceV

if you want pschology, then You should remember that Human being only do things that benift them. so a lex talionis is less attractive then say a direct fine of 50,000 (also as I said stealing has to have 2 reliable witnesses under oath that witnessed the direct theft. So lopping hands off is nearly impossible unless the theft is stupid or in extreme need and if he is in extreme need then the lopping of hands isn't allowed punishment isn't allowed as long as the stolen goods is only to satisfy a human need ( food, water, cloth for a tent, blanket or something) and it has to have a minimal value not for say stealing a table or a pair of head phones. that is then brought down to tazir level. Also, as a state level which is for anything other than murder or battery its a completely normal system a court system with witnesses and a judge, that can be built upon to suit needs meaning getting help for a psycho is possible under Sharia. It isn't black and white and it is extremely flexible. Also the punishment decided under lex talionis cannot exceed the crime meaning unless he chopped your hand off you can't do the same to him. there is equal punishment for everyone. Not like hamurabi where slaves got the shaft. But again the idea of lex talionis is losing popularity and can be removed without going against the Quran.mayceV

Anything that combines religion with political authority cannot be good, particularly when the religion commands barbaric punishments for what would be regarded as none crimes to most people.

I recall one news release in which it was called that women living under sharia only show one eye. Because two eyes may lure a poor unsuspecting male into raping the women; and then they will have to stone her to death, for the crime of being raped.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]

2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)

3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia

4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.

5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...

6: There is no stoning, just whipping

7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.

8: lolwut?

SaudiFury

8.lolwut q5:33.

every time someone says "hey here is a clear black and white text saying it's cool to have sex with young girls before their first menstruation" or "here is one that says slay your enemies and your enemies are anyone not muslum" or any one of the hundreds of other things that are offensive to anyone that respects human rights the answer every time is "oh, well that does not count anymore, or it's a mistranslation or it's this or it's that and the actual meaning is the opposite of what it says there in black and white."

religious deception is built into and inseparable from islam.

as far as being at war so that taqiyya is an acceptible practice twenty bucks says you can find at least one hundred imams giving sermons on youtube claiming that there is a war going on which makes it completely acceptable to say anything you need to say to forward the cause.

all this works like a charm because westerners see a religion and say "omg! it's a religion! protect it!" when really islam is a political ideology dolled up to look like a religion.

if westerners understood the political aspect and how taqiyya allows it to be hidden you would have a much more difficult time spreading the ideology so it makes it acceptable to do and say anything you need to say or do to protect it.