[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Well first off, if you look at oh.. all of human history, when religion becomes and integral part of government bad s#$% happens. PWSteal_Ldpinchso tell me why the islamic empire was a massive super power durring the dark ages. and how countless scientific advancments were made durring that time- many of which where built upon durring the enlightenment period. Islam didn't slow anything down infact when people stopped following it in the region, the advancments and general strength of the people stopped. so if i look at history its because Shrai stopped that the Middle east collpased into itslef. You can't attribute any scientific advances in the middle east to Islam any more than you can attribute scientific advances in Europe to Christianity. If you measured the worth of a religion by it's contribution to science, then Islam would be scraping the bottom of the barrel. So this argument really doesn't help you. Your asinine argument is actually the reason the middle east collapsed in the first place. The answer to any social problem is always more Islam. People are starving? "We need moar Islam!!". People can't read or write? "We need moar Islam!!" Enough Islam, try something else. lol, actually Islam required people to learn at least learn the Arabic language in order to read the quran, so that essentially eliminates illiteracy . Also, Muslims are required to pay 2.5% of their annual salary to charity every year, but since quite a bit of Muslims dont do this, and the fact the muslim countries are run by western backed governments that are brutal, oppressive, and corrupt, the money that is made from Zakat (The required annual charity) is basically pocketed by corrupt government officials. Seriously, if anything, your "argument" is asinine..
What's wrong with Sharia?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Well first off, if you look at oh.. all of human history, when religion becomes and integral part of government bad s#$% happens. mayceVso tell me why the islamic empire was a massive super power durring the dark ages. and how countless scientific advancments were made durring that time- many of which where built upon durring the enlightenment period. Islam didn't slow anything down infact when people stopped following it in the region, the advancments and general strength of the people stopped. so if i look at history its because Shrai stopped that the Middle east collpased into itslef.
Thats in fact wrong.. The Ottoman Empire deterriotated due to poor leadership which led to a crumbling economy and the West slowly but surely taking over the region until WW1 when it was official..
I have no issues with Sharia, or more correctly, I have little concern for which religious laws Muslims follow, as its their issue.
the problem starts when Sharia (or another law in Islam) starts to define me as a Dhimmi , its then I have issues with it.
[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"][QUOTE="mayceV"] so tell me why the islamic empire was a massive super power durring the dark ages. and how countless scientific advancments were made durring that time- many of which where built upon durring the enlightenment period. Islam didn't slow anything down infact when people stopped following it in the region, the advancments and general strength of the people stopped. so if i look at history its because Shrai stopped that the Middle east collpased into itslef.Nayef_shroofYou can't attribute any scientific advances in the middle east to Islam any more than you can attribute scientific advances in Europe to Christianity. If you measured the worth of a religion by it's contribution to science, then Islam would be scraping the bottom of the barrel. So this argument really doesn't help you. Your asinine argument is actually the reason the middle east collapsed in the first place. The answer to any social problem is always more Islam. People are starving? "We need moar Islam!!". People can't read or write? "We need moar Islam!!" Enough Islam, try something else. lol, actually Islam required people to learn at least learn the Arabic language in order to read the quran, so that essentially eliminates illiteracy . Also, Muslims are required to pay 2.5% of their annual salary to charity every year, but since quite a bit of Muslims dont do this, and the fact the muslim countries are run by western backed governments that are brutal, oppressive, and corrupt, the money that is made from Zakat (The required annual charity) is basically pocketed by corrupt government officials. Seriously, if anything, your "argument" is asinine..
Uh no.. Just because a person follows Islam or Christianity or any religion for that matter, doesn't mean they are literate.. In fact it was usually the OPPOSITE.. The greatest loyalty to the religion was in fact when the vaste majority of people were illiterate and sought the meaning of their holy books by the Priests who could.. That is why religious organizations like the Catholic church was so powerful.
so tell me why the islamic empire was a massive super power durring the dark ages. and how countless scientific advancments were made durring that time- many of which where built upon durring the enlightenment period. Islam didn't slow anything down infact when people stopped following it in the region, the advancments and general strength of the people stopped. so if i look at history its because Shrai stopped that the Middle east collpased into itslef.[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Well first off, if you look at oh.. all of human history, when religion becomes and integral part of government bad s#$% happens. sSubZerOo
Thats in fact wrong.. The Ottoman Empire deterriotated due to poor leadership which led to a crumbling economy and the West slowly but surely taking over the region until WW1 when it was official..
the economic deterioration already started centuries beforehand, due to the simple fact that one of the main incomes for the Middle East, trade (such as the silk road) became less and less important, though a lack of reforms didn't help.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="mayceV"] so tell me why the islamic empire was a massive super power durring the dark ages. and how countless scientific advancments were made durring that time- many of which where built upon durring the enlightenment period. Islam didn't slow anything down infact when people stopped following it in the region, the advancments and general strength of the people stopped. so if i look at history its because Shrai stopped that the Middle east collpased into itslef.Darkman2007
Thats in fact wrong.. The Ottoman Empire deterriotated due to poor leadership which led to a crumbling economy and the West slowly but surely taking over the region until WW1 when it was official..
the economic deterioration already started centuries beforehand, due to the simple fact that one of the main incomes for the Middle East, trade (such as the silk road) became less and less important, though a lack of reforms didn't help.They kind of went the way of Spain in that regard.. In which the gold which made them insanely rich from the Americas, instead of investing of building up their own country.. They more or less bought foreign.
Barbaric punishment for petty crimes... No liquor or bacon... Oppression of women through strict dress codes. Limited freedom of speech. I mean what isn't wrong with it?
joesh89
Hey now, it only doesn't make sense when you actually think about it.
lol, actually Islam required people to learn at least learn the Arabic language in order to read the quran, so that essentially eliminates illiteracy . Also, Muslims are required to pay 2.5% of their annual salary to charity every year, but since quite a bit of Muslims dont do this, and the fact the muslim countries are run by western backed governments that are brutal, oppressive, and corrupt, the money that is made from Zakat (The required annual charity) is basically pocketed by corrupt government officials. Seriously, if anything, your "argument" is asinine..[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"] You can't attribute any scientific advances in the middle east to Islam any more than you can attribute scientific advances in Europe to Christianity. If you measured the worth of a religion by it's contribution to science, then Islam would be scraping the bottom of the barrel. So this argument really doesn't help you. Your asinine argument is actually the reason the middle east collapsed in the first place. The answer to any social problem is always more Islam. People are starving? "We need moar Islam!!". People can't read or write? "We need moar Islam!!" Enough Islam, try something else.sSubZerOo
Uh no.. Just because a person follows Islam or Christianity or any religion for that matter, doesn't mean they are literate.. In fact it was usually the OPPOSITE.. The greatest loyalty to the religion was in fact when the vaste majority of people were illiterate and sought the meaning of their holy books by the Priests who could.. That is why religious organizations like the Catholic church was so powerful.
Islam=/= Catholicism. Seriously, they are nothing alike. One of Islam's fundamental teachings was that people should have a direct relationship with god, unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. In Islam, it is strongly encouraged that you learn Arabic so that you can read the Quran for yourself, not rely upon someone else, except for the imam, to explain to you the meaninglol, so much ignorance I dont know where to start...Implement apartheid? Seriously, are you forgetting that it was white Europeans who subjugated and caused the death of millions upon millions of Africans throughout the centuries, while in Islamic countries, due to the fact that racism/slavery due to race is forbidden in sharia, the slave trade never occurred in Islamic countries. Women were given rights to own property, inherit, and to obtain education in Islamic countries CENTURIES before Europeans ever considered to institute such basic women's rights (Again, dont reference Saudi Arabia, thats just the backwards culture of that one country, not Sharia). On the contrary, Sharia instilled many of the basic human rights we see todayYeah, he's right. Sharia law is just to help the adherents of the socio-political ideology of islam to be good adherents and implement apartheid, human chattel slavery and the treatment of women as breeding and fornicating beasts in a man's personal bordello.
What's wrong with that?
When are our political ****going to grow a brain and start arguing for our values and stop subordinating them to this ideology which is the antithesis of human rights and the rule of law. On the contrary, it's the rule of barbarity.
[deleted]
Well said.Yeah, he's right. Sharia law is just to help the adherents of the socio-political ideology of islam to be good adherents and implement apartheid, human chattel slavery and the treatment of women as breeding and fornicating beasts in a man's personal bordello.
What's wrong with that?
When are our political ****going to grow a brain and start arguing for our values and stop subordinating them to this ideology which is the antithesis of human rights and the rule of law. On the contrary, it's the rule of barbarity.
[deleted]
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] lol, actually Islam required people to learn at least learn the Arabic language in order to read the quran, so that essentially eliminates illiteracy . Also, Muslims are required to pay 2.5% of their annual salary to charity every year, but since quite a bit of Muslims dont do this, and the fact the muslim countries are run by western backed governments that are brutal, oppressive, and corrupt, the money that is made from Zakat (The required annual charity) is basically pocketed by corrupt government officials. Seriously, if anything, your "argument" is asinine..Nayef_shroof
Uh no.. Just because a person follows Islam or Christianity or any religion for that matter, doesn't mean they are literate.. In fact it was usually the OPPOSITE.. The greatest loyalty to the religion was in fact when the vaste majority of people were illiterate and sought the meaning of their holy books by the Priests who could.. That is why religious organizations like the Catholic church was so powerful.
Islam=/= Catholicism. Seriously, they are nothing alike. One of Islam's fundamental teachings was that people should have a direct relationship with god, unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. In Islam, it is strongly encouraged that you learn Arabic so that you can read the Quran for yourself, not rely upon someone else, except for the imam, to explain to you the meaningUh if you look it up the Ottoman Empire had a literacy rate in the low single digits by the 19th century..
[QUOTE="[deleted]"]Well said. Read my post quoting his above ^^Yeah, he's right. Sharia law is just to help the adherents of the socio-political ideology of islam to be good adherents and implement apartheid, human chattel slavery and the treatment of women as breeding and fornicating beasts in a man's personal bordello.
What's wrong with that?
When are our political ****going to grow a brain and start arguing for our values and stop subordinating them to this ideology which is the antithesis of human rights and the rule of law. On the contrary, it's the rule of barbarity.
Kcube
Islam=/= Catholicism. Seriously, they are nothing alike. One of Islam's fundamental teachings was that people should have a direct relationship with god, unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. In Islam, it is strongly encouraged that you learn Arabic so that you can read the Quran for yourself, not rely upon someone else, except for the imam, to explain to you the meaning[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
Uh no.. Just because a person follows Islam or Christianity or any religion for that matter, doesn't mean they are literate.. In fact it was usually the OPPOSITE.. The greatest loyalty to the religion was in fact when the vaste majority of people were illiterate and sought the meaning of their holy books by the Priests who could.. That is why religious organizations like the Catholic church was so powerful.
sSubZerOo
Uh if you look it up the Ottoman Empire had a literacy rate in the low single digits by the 19th century..
First, I said if muslims are to adhere to Islam in the most religious sense, they would learn how to at least read arabic to be able to read the quran. On what you said about the literacy, Any proof? And on what basis (Such as illiteracy of the turkish language or generally)?lol, where do you want to start?
death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?
lopping off body parts?
beating your wife?
death sentence for apostates?
jihad?
whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?
executing homosexuals?
crucifixion?
yeah, lets bring all that back.
pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] Islam=/= Catholicism. Seriously, they are nothing alike. One of Islam's fundamental teachings was that people should have a direct relationship with god, unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. In Islam, it is strongly encouraged that you learn Arabic so that you can read the Quran for yourself, not rely upon someone else, except for the imam, to explain to you the meaningNayef_shroof
Uh if you look it up the Ottoman Empire had a literacy rate in the low single digits by the 19th century..
First, I said if muslims are to adhere to Islam in the most religious sense, they would learn how to at least read arabic to be able to read the quran. On what you said about the literacy, Any proof? And on what basis (Such as illiteracy of the turkish language or generally)?The basic wiki page that is properly cited points that out.. This is common.. VERY few people were literate in any culture in earlier ages.. Even the Ottoman Empire is not unique in this regard, having high literacy rate is a modern day thing.. If we look 500 to 1000 years back.. The vaste majority of the population could not read..
Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy.Nayef_shroofLol, no. There are plenty of Muslims who treat certain teachers' sayings and writings as supplemental to the Qur'an, when it explicitly states that it is already perfect.
First, I said if muslims are to adhere to Islam in the most religious sense, they would learn how to at least read arabic to be able to read the quran. On what you said about the literacy, Any proof? And on what basis (Such as illiteracy of the turkish language or generally)?[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
Uh if you look it up the Ottoman Empire had a literacy rate in the low single digits by the 19th century..
sSubZerOo
The basic wiki page that is properly cited points that out.. This is common.. VERY few people were literate in any culture in earlier ages.. Even the Ottoman Empire is not unique in this regard, having high literacy rate is a modern day thing.. If we look 500 to 1000 years back.. The vaste majority of the population could not read..
Looked it up. Im aware that the literacy rates in older times were quite low, but not 2-3% low...Lets start with beating your wife. I mean, sharia is more advanced than the west if it implements that policy.lol, where do you want to start?
death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?
lopping off body parts?
beating your wife?
death sentence for apostates?
jihad?
whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?
executing homosexuals?
crucifixion?
yeah, lets bring all that back.
pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.
Riverwolf007
[spoiler] i kid [/spoiler]
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy.foxhound_foxLol, no. There are plenty of Muslims who treat certain teachers' sayings and writings as supplemental to the Qur'an, when it explicitly states that it is already perfect. You mean Hadith?
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] First, I said if muslims are to adhere to Islam in the most religious sense, they would learn how to at least read arabic to be able to read the quran. On what you said about the literacy, Any proof? And on what basis (Such as illiteracy of the turkish language or generally)?
Nayef_shroof
The basic wiki page that is properly cited points that out.. This is common.. VERY few people were literate in any culture in earlier ages.. Even the Ottoman Empire is not unique in this regard, having high literacy rate is a modern day thing.. If we look 500 to 1000 years back.. The vaste majority of the population could not read..
Looked it up. Im aware that the literacy rates in older times were quite low, but not 2-3% low...Hell yes they were.. Are you kidding me? Look at any estimated literacy rate of any region 1000 years back.. Being literate was a mark of clergy or noblility most times.. The radical majority of people had no access to education to read, nor did they have the need for it in their respective job..
You mean Hadith?Nayef_shroofHadith, commentary, etc. If the Qur'an is the perfect Word of God, then none of that would be necessary. It would be self-evident to all, and everyone would be Muslim.
unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. Nayef_shroofThat is, in fact, wrong.
lol, where do you want to start?
1: death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?
2: lopping off body parts?
3: beating your wife?
4: death sentence for apostates?
5: jihad?
6: whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?
7: executing homosexuals?
8: crucifixion?
yeah, lets bring all that back.
pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.
Riverwolf007
2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)
3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia
4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.
5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...
6: There is no stoning, just whipping
7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.
8: lolwut?
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]You mean Hadith?foxhound_foxHadith, commentary, etc. If the Qur'an is the perfect Word of God, then none of that would be necessary. It would be self-evident to all, and everyone would be Muslim. The Hadith isnt tied in with the Quran in the fact that, while the Quran explains the religious duties and beliefs of a Muslim and the religious background, the Hadith explain the life example or models that Muslims should follow in everyday life
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]
lol, where do you want to start?
1: death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?
2: lopping off body parts?
3: beating your wife?
4: death sentence for apostates?
5: jihad?
6: whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?
7: executing homosexuals?
8: crucifixion?
yeah, lets bring all that back.
pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.
Nayef_shroof
2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)
3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia
4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.
5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...
6: There is no stoning, just whipping
7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.
8: lolwut?
Nothing that you posted makes it any better. And if apostasy is a form of treason....and treason is punished by death...then apostasy is punished by death. That would be the logical chain of events.That is, in fact, wrong. Would you care to explain?[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. LJS9502_basic
For one, it's not secular. Religion has no place in our laws, though it may have served as a moral foundation for some, they're no longer needed.
Secondly, I don't agree with the punishments of some of the crimes, most notably adultery. Thirdly, the treatment of women is also something I disagree with.
Sharia may work in the Middle East, but it has no place in America.
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]
lol, where do you want to start?
1: death sentence for ridiculing the big mo?
2: lopping off body parts?
3: beating your wife?
4: death sentence for apostates?
5: jihad?
6: whipping/stoning unmarried fornicators?
7: executing homosexuals?
8: crucifixion?
yeah, lets bring all that back.
pfft, what's wrong with sharia? you gotta be kidding me.
LJS9502_basic
2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)
3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia
4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.
5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...
6: There is no stoning, just whipping
7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.
8: lolwut?
Nothing that you posted makes it any better. And if apostasy is a form of treason....and treason is punished by death...then apostasy is punished by death. That would be the logical chain of events. I said centuries ago apostasy was considered treason, not anymore. Also, how does my explanation not help?[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That is, in fact, wrong. Would you care to explain? I think it's rather clear. Priests are there to conduct sacraments and preach the Word of God but one does not need a hierarchy to have a relationship with God.[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]unlike Catholicism which requires you to rely upon a hierarchy. Nayef_shroof
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Nothing that you posted makes it any better. And if apostasy is a form of treason....and treason is punished by death...then apostasy is punished by death. That would be the logical chain of events. I said centuries ago apostasy was considered treason, not anymore. Also, how does my explanation not help?I bolded the comments that while they may be your explanation are not good attributes. IMO and undoubtedly much of the west's as well.[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]
2: You only get "your body parts lopped off" when you commit crimes of significance, such as stealing something of high value (Result being your hand cut off), or if you murder/rape someone (Punishment being, if proven overwhelmingly guilty, death)
3: Its against sharia law to abuse your wife. It is said that if she exact high handedness upon the husband and he decides to hit her, he cannot cause any bruises, bleeding, are injuries to sensitive areas of the body. It is also one of the largest sins to commit in sharia
4: That is not allowed...In older times (Centuries ago), apostasy was considered a form of treason, and treason was punishable by death, not apostasy.
5: Jihad means the inner struggle, so I dont understand what your talking about...
6: There is no stoning, just whipping
7: Homosexuals are punished when they display blatant acts of homosexuality in public, meaning that homosexuals can be homosexuals in private and face the consequences in the after-life. The punishment is appointed for the judge to decide.
8: lolwut?
Nayef_shroof
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That is, in fact, wrong.Would you care to explain? I think it's rather clear. Priests are there to conduct sacraments and preach the Word of God but one does not need a hierarchy to have a relationship with God. So, how would you explain when, in medieval Europe, the commonwealth had to rely on priests to seek forgiveness from God, or to ask for blessings from GodLJS9502_basic
Looked it up. Im aware that the literacy rates in older times were quite low, but not 2-3% low...[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
The basic wiki page that is properly cited points that out.. This is common.. VERY few people were literate in any culture in earlier ages.. Even the Ottoman Empire is not unique in this regard, having high literacy rate is a modern day thing.. If we look 500 to 1000 years back.. The vaste majority of the population could not read..
sSubZerOo
Hell yes they were.. Are you kidding me? Look at any estimated literacy rate of any region 1000 years back.. Being literate was a mark of clergy or noblility most times.. The radical majority of people had no access to education to read, nor did they have the need for it in their respective job..
I knew all that, but I didn't know the literacy rate was in single digits. I assumed it was approximately 10-15% in Islamic countries. Sorry for the confusionI think it's rather clear. Priests are there to conduct sacraments and preach the Word of God but one does not need a hierarchy to have a relationship with God. So, how would you explain when, in medieval Europe, the commonwealth had to rely on priests to seek forgiveness from God, or to ask for blessings from God Medieval Europe is very important to today's world.:| Not all denominations by the way have confession/reconciliation. And frankly, the idea does come from the Bible. Though it's not the only way one can ask forgiveness. One is allowed to do that on their own.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] Would you care to explain?Nayef_shroof
I said centuries ago apostasy was considered treason, not anymore. Also, how does my explanation not help?I bolded the comments that while they may be your explanation are not good attributes. IMO and undoubtedly much of the west's as well. 2: So you dont believe that if someone is overwhelmingly proven to be guilty of killing or raping someone that they should be punishable by death? On the contrary, I think many people support this proposition. BTW, about stealing, you only get your hand removed if you steal something of high value. 3: If you abuse your wife, it is considered a crime in Sharia law, and you have to have a valid reason for hitting her (Only to the degree of slapping), or else you will be punished. 6: Eh, I guess the west is just a sex-oriented culture. If you have a problem, then fine, but realize all the problems teenagers are facing due to widespread teen pregnancies, not to mention the fact the fathers abandon their children most of the time. But, by all means if you dont mind that, then whatever 7: Homosexuals are only punished if they display homosexuality purposefully in public, and the punishment is for the judge to decide[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Nothing that you posted makes it any better. And if apostasy is a form of treason....and treason is punished by death...then apostasy is punished by death. That would be the logical chain of events.
LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]So, how would you explain when, in medieval Europe, the commonwealth had to rely on priests to seek forgiveness from God, or to ask for blessings from God Medieval Europe is very important to today's world.:| Not all denominations by the way have confession/reconciliation. And frankly, the idea does come from the Bible. Though it's not the only way one can ask forgiveness. One is allowed to do that on their own.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I think it's rather clear. Priests are there to conduct sacraments and preach the Word of God but one does not need a hierarchy to have a relationship with God.LJS9502_basic
Ya, thats why I specified catholicism.
I bolded the comments that while they may be your explanation are not good attributes. IMO and undoubtedly much of the west's as well. 2: So you dont believe that if someone is overwhelmingly proven to be guilty of killing or raping someone that they should be punishable by death? On the contrary, I think many people support this proposition. BTW, about stealing, you only get your hand removed if you steal something of high value. 3: If you abuse your wife, it is considered a crime in Sharia law, and you have to have a valid reason for hitting her (Only to the degree of slapping), or else you will be punished. 6: Eh, I guess the west is just a sex-oriented culture. If you have a problem, then fine, but realize all the problems teenagers are facing due to widespread teen pregnancies, not to mention the fact the fathers abandon their children most of the time. But, by all means if you dont mind that, then whatever 7: Homosexuals are only punished if they display homosexuality purposefully in public, and the punishment is for the judge to decide This is what our Kids kids get to look forward to reading in ancient history class.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] I said centuries ago apostasy was considered treason, not anymore. Also, how does my explanation not help?Nayef_shroof
Medieval Europe is very important to today's world.:| Not all denominations by the way have confession/reconciliation. And frankly, the idea does come from the Bible. Though it's not the only way one can ask forgiveness. One is allowed to do that on their own.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] So, how would you explain when, in medieval Europe, the commonwealth had to rely on priests to seek forgiveness from God, or to ask for blessings from God
Nayef_shroof
Ya, thats why I specified catholicism.
Yeah and? Catholics have it as a sacrament but it's up to the individual to go.;)[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]2: So you dont believe that if someone is overwhelmingly proven to be guilty of killing or raping someone that they should be punishable by death? On the contrary, I think many people support this proposition. BTW, about stealing, you only get your hand removed if you steal something of high value. 3: If you abuse your wife, it is considered a crime in Sharia law, and you have to have a valid reason for hitting her (Only to the degree of slapping), or else you will be punished. 6: Eh, I guess the west is just a sex-oriented culture. If you have a problem, then fine, but realize all the problems teenagers are facing due to widespread teen pregnancies, not to mention the fact the fathers abandon their children most of the time. But, by all means if you dont mind that, then whatever 7: Homosexuals are only punished if they display homosexuality purposefully in public, and the punishment is for the judge to decide This is what our Kids kids get to look forward to reading in ancient history class. ? Can you explain?[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I bolded the comments that while they may be your explanation are not good attributes. IMO and undoubtedly much of the west's as well.
Kcube
I bolded the comments that while they may be your explanation are not good attributes. IMO and undoubtedly much of the west's as well. 2: So you dont believe that if someone is overwhelmingly proven to be guilty of killing or raping someone that they should be punishable by death? On the contrary, I think many people support this proposition. BTW, about stealing, you only get your hand removed if you steal something of high value. 3: If you abuse your wife, it is considered a crime in Sharia law, and you have to have a valid reason for hitting her (Only to the degree of slapping), or else you will be punished. 6: Eh, I guess the west is just a sex-oriented culture. If you have a problem, then fine, but realize all the problems teenagers are facing due to widespread teen pregnancies, not to mention the fact the fathers abandon their children most of the time. But, by all means if you dont mind that, then whatever 7: Homosexuals are only punished if they display homosexuality purposefully in public, and the punishment is for the judge to decide I don't believe in the death penalty....I don't believe in mutilation as punishment. There is no reason for a man to hit his wife. While some choices people make have not so good consequences....a choice is an important aspect of development.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] I said centuries ago apostasy was considered treason, not anymore. Also, how does my explanation not help?Nayef_shroof
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Medieval Europe is very important to today's world.:| Not all denominations by the way have confession/reconciliation. And frankly, the idea does come from the Bible. Though it's not the only way one can ask forgiveness. One is allowed to do that on their own.LJS9502_basic
Ya, thats why I specified catholicism.
Yeah and? Catholics have it as a sacrament but it's up to the individual to go.;) Well, then what was the point of sacraments in older times if they are up to individuals to decide?[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]Yeah and? Catholics have it as a sacrament but it's up to the individual to go.;) Well, then what was the point of sacraments in older times if they are up to individuals to decide? No one has ever been forced to participate.:|Ya, thats why I specified catholicism.
Nayef_shroof
My only complaint about any religous law is why does it have to be a law? We have civil laws to prevent people from doing bad things, but religious laws are usually about how people should act themselves. Shouldnt it be up to them whether or not they want to obey a religous law. If its so important to them then why have it as a law? They should obey it on their own initiative.
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]2: So you dont believe that if someone is overwhelmingly proven to be guilty of killing or raping someone that they should be punishable by death? On the contrary, I think many people support this proposition. BTW, about stealing, you only get your hand removed if you steal something of high value. 3: If you abuse your wife, it is considered a crime in Sharia law, and you have to have a valid reason for hitting her (Only to the degree of slapping), or else you will be punished. 6: Eh, I guess the west is just a sex-oriented culture. If you have a problem, then fine, but realize all the problems teenagers are facing due to widespread teen pregnancies, not to mention the fact the fathers abandon their children most of the time. But, by all means if you dont mind that, then whatever 7: Homosexuals are only punished if they display homosexuality purposefully in public, and the punishment is for the judge to decide I don't believe in the death penalty....I don't believe in mutilation as punishment. There is no reason for a man to hit his wife. While some choices people make have not so good consequences....a choice is an important aspect of development. There is a difference between making a bad choice and deciding to commit a terrible crime.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I bolded the comments that while they may be your explanation are not good attributes. IMO and undoubtedly much of the west's as well.
LJS9502_basic
Well, then what was the point of sacraments in older times if they are up to individuals to decide? No one has ever been forced to participate.:| I thought they were incumbent upon believers to do[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yeah and? Catholics have it as a sacrament but it's up to the individual to go.;)LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] 2: So you dont believe that if someone is overwhelmingly proven to be guilty of killing or raping someone that they should be punishable by death? On the contrary, I think many people support this proposition. BTW, about stealing, you only get your hand removed if you steal something of high value. 3: If you abuse your wife, it is considered a crime in Sharia law, and you have to have a valid reason for hitting her (Only to the degree of slapping), or else you will be punished. 6: Eh, I guess the west is just a sex-oriented culture. If you have a problem, then fine, but realize all the problems teenagers are facing due to widespread teen pregnancies, not to mention the fact the fathers abandon their children most of the time. But, by all means if you dont mind that, then whatever 7: Homosexuals are only punished if they display homosexuality purposefully in public, and the punishment is for the judge to decideI don't believe in the death penalty....I don't believe in mutilation as punishment. There is no reason for a man to hit his wife. While some choices people make have not so good consequences....a choice is an important aspect of development. There is a difference between making a bad choice and deciding to commit a terrible crime. Teenage pregnancy and premarital sex are not crimes.Nayef_shroof
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