The One Major Flaw of Christianity

Before I begin, I am not an Athiest. I do believe in a higher power or "god" of the universe(s). However I cannot accept the Christian version of god. I have tried but there is one nagging fact the keeps me from becoming a Christian.

That is believing in Jesus, gods only son, IS THE ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. NO MATTER WHAT VALUES YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE BY. I'll explain.
A serial killer, rapist, career criminal can live his life anyway he wants to. But as long as he sincerely believes in Jesus Christ or accepts him at the last minute. He has bought his way into heaven.
However, someone who lives a just and moral life and does things to help out in society will still end up in hell if he does not believe in Jesus Christ. Believing in a higher power is simply not enough.
I'm sorry but I simply cannot accept this. That would mean the only reason to life, or to live is for Jesus. Which would mean anything else you do in life is meaningless if it wasn't for him. You could simply do whatever you wanted in life and copout at the last moment by sincerly accepting him.

Sorry for the rant but I've always heard Christians say something along this line. And I read a story about someone's near death experience. He was being judged and he found out that he wasn't even close to getting into heaven despite all the good things he's done in his life. When he came back, he said no matter what you do, the only way into heaven is believing in Jesusmanic626

Wow why did you make this topic??!!! You no NOTHING about the chrsitain faith you idiot!

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The biggest flaw is that animals don't go to heaven. I want to know why. :evil:Ravirr

All dogs go to heaven. Haven't you seen the movie?

Those movies were weird..

Who ever said that animals won't make it into heaven? Its simply a dogma that has been formed by years of western Christianity.

The Truth is that as Christians we simply don't know. The 'animals don't have souls' argument is made by Plato, Not the Bible

[QUOTE="manic626"]Before I begin, I am not an Athiest. I do believe in a higher power or "god" of the universe(s). However I cannot accept the Christian version of god. I have tried but there is one nagging fact the keeps me from becoming a Christian.

That is believing in Jesus, gods only son, IS THE ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. NO MATTER WHAT VALUES YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE BY. I'll explain.
A serial killer, rapist, career criminal can live his life anyway he wants to. But as long as he sincerely believes in Jesus Christ or accepts him at the last minute. He has bought his way into heaven.
However, someone who lives a just and moral life and does things to help out in society will still end up in hell if he does not believe in Jesus Christ. Believing in a higher power is simply not enough.
I'm sorry but I simply cannot accept this. That would mean the only reason to life, or to live is for Jesus. Which would mean anything else you do in life is meaningless if it wasn't for him. You could simply do whatever you wanted in life and copout at the last moment by sincerly accepting him.

Sorry for the rant but I've always heard Christians say something along this line. And I read a story about someone's near death experience. He was being judged and he found out that he wasn't even close to getting into heaven despite all the good things he's done in his life. When he came back, he said no matter what you do, the only way into heaven is believing in JesusMatts07

Wow why did you make this topic??!!! You no NOTHING about the chrsitain faith you idiot!

I always thought about that but the fact is that you have to actually be sorry for your sins and repent. Then you have to get baptised I think also known as being born again.

Now about the many levels of hell. Say that I curse out god on a daily basis, but I am an extremely nice person (I only act like I wanna kill everyone because I don't want to be taken advantage of) will that mean that I am going to go in like the deepest part of hell where all the bad people go if so that sucks.

I do feel that religions are very messed up though like they don't give a damn if you are a good person or not if you don't believe in them they still going to send you down below. What kind of loving person is that.

[QUOTE="Daffy101"][QUOTE="SilentFireX"][QUOTE="crusher2002000"]

i think the one flaw is that they only follow certain parts of the bible that fit them and take out the ones they dont' like. You can't pick and choose when its the word of God. Its either believe in it all or don't believe in it at all.

LJS9502_basic

Give an example of this.

Dude...don't bring up youtube in a religion thread.:roll:

Dude...I don't see the big deal if it's related to the thread :roll: I bet you didn't even click the link.

[QUOTE="Ravirr"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The biggest flaw is that animals don't go to heaven. I want to know why. :evil:-Ophiuchus-

All dogs go to heaven. Haven't you seen the movie?

Those movies were weird..

Who ever said that animals won't make it into heaven? Its simply a dogma that has been formed by years of western Christianity.

The Truth is that as Christians we simply don't know. The 'animals don't have souls' argument is made by Plato, Not the Bible

Before I begin, I am not an Athiest. I do believe in a higher power or "god" of the universe(s). However I cannot accept the Christian version of god. I have tried but there is one nagging fact the keeps me from becoming a Christian.

That is believing in Jesus, gods only son, IS THE ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. NO MATTER WHAT VALUES YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE BY. I'll explain.
A serial killer, rapist, career criminal can live his life anyway he wants to. But as long as he sincerely believes in Jesus Christ or accepts him at the last minute. He has bought his way into heaven.manic626

Not true. God passes judgment as to where they go in the afterlife. Believing in Jesus Christ doesn't simply grant you a backstage pass into the pearly gates.

Sorry for the rant but I've always heard Christians say something along this line.manic626

Yeah, don't believe those guys. They'll say anything just to get you to join their parish. Find religion or your own righteous path to enlightenment/peace/vocation for yourself.

You may be misinterpreting the laws of chirstianity.

I always thought about that but the fact is that you have to actually be sorry for your sins and repent. Then you have to get baptised I think also known as being born again.

Now about the many levels of hell. Say that I curse out god on a daily basis, but I am an extremely nice person (I only act like I wanna kill everyone because I don't want to be taken advantage of) will that mean that I am going to go in like the deepest part of hell where all the bad people go if so that sucks.

I do feel that religions are very messed up though like they don't give a damn if you are a good person or not if you don't believe in them they still going to send you down below. What kind of loving person is that.

blackldragon

Are you talking about Dante's Inferno? Well, nobody knows if that's what hell is like, but the people who go to his deepest part of hell are not murderers or blasphemers, but traitors.

He was a "good" man since he was a child. Alteast he followed the rules. So you are wrong, he was already obeying.

Well if you were one of those people who wrote the bible you might have put more....

aliend

Being "good" is not the point of Christianity. He was not following the rules. Also, where in the Bible does it say that?

"If it were so, I would have told you."--Jesus.

You people treat heaven and hell like it's a friggin' sports draft. They don't exist. You will not go to heaven. You won't go to hell. You will just DIE. Accept it. How many years are you WASTING by hoping for a higher "power"? You live your life, then you die. You get one shot, might as well live it for WHAT IT IS, not what it WILL be.Udsen

Prove it.

[QUOTE="blackldragon"]

I always thought about that but the fact is that you have to actually be sorry for your sins and repent. Then you have to get baptised I think also known as being born again.

Now about the many levels of hell. Say that I curse out god on a daily basis, but I am an extremely nice person (I only act like I wanna kill everyone because I don't want to be taken advantage of) will that mean that I am going to go in like the deepest part of hell where all the bad people go if so that sucks.

I do feel that religions are very messed up though like they don't give a damn if you are a good person or not if you don't believe in them they still going to send you down below. What kind of loving person is that.

Silver_Dragon17

Are you talking about Dante's Inferno? Well, nobody knows if that's what hell is like, but the people who go to his deepest part of hell are not murderers or blasphemers, but traitors.

So I guess I'm pretty much boned then huh? And yes I was talking about Dante's Inferno.

[QUOTE="Udsen"]You people treat heaven and hell like it's a friggin' sports draft. They don't exist. You will not go to heaven. You won't go to hell. You will just DIE. Accept it. How many years are you WASTING by hoping for a higher "power"? You live your life, then you die. You get one shot, might as well live it for WHAT IT IS, not what it WILL be.Silver_Dragon17

Prove it.

The prove it thing not really working we had a whole thread about the burden of proof. I believe you posted there too.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="blackldragon"]

I always thought about that but the fact is that you have to actually be sorry for your sins and repent. Then you have to get baptised I think also known as being born again.

Now about the many levels of hell. Say that I curse out god on a daily basis, but I am an extremely nice person (I only act like I wanna kill everyone because I don't want to be taken advantage of) will that mean that I am going to go in like the deepest part of hell where all the bad people go if so that sucks.

I do feel that religions are very messed up though like they don't give a damn if you are a good person or not if you don't believe in them they still going to send you down below. What kind of loving person is that.

blackldragon

Are you talking about Dante's Inferno? Well, nobody knows if that's what hell is like, but the people who go to his deepest part of hell are not murderers or blasphemers, but traitors.

So I guess I'm pretty much boned then huh? And yes I was talking about Dante's Inferno.

Only if you've betrayed friends, family, or worst of all, your greatest benefactors.

mmmm... thinkingkappareign

The very fact that this quote is still used is evidence that people have no idea what they're talking about.

God is able and willing to prevent evil. So why doesn't He? Evil comes from humans, which just so happen to be His favorite creation. To destroy evil, humans have to go. Do you want that?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="Udsen"]You people treat heaven and hell like it's a friggin' sports draft. They don't exist. You will not go to heaven. You won't go to hell. You will just DIE. Accept it. How many years are you WASTING by hoping for a higher "power"? You live your life, then you die. You get one shot, might as well live it for WHAT IT IS, not what it WILL be.blackldragon

Prove it.

The prove it thing not really working we had a whole thread about the burden of proof. I believe you posted there too.

I know. But he's making all these claims that he doesn't seem to want to back up.

if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?kappareign

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

Christianity has so many flaws that its hard to count them all, plus humans were not created evil since we werent created by some diety, its sad that in the 21st century people still believe that a god exists.

Christianity has so many flaws that its hard to count them all, plus humans were not created evil since we werent created by some diety, its sad that in the 21st century people still believe that a god exists.

alxy_07

And it's sad that some people think the way you do.:roll:

What 'flaws' are these? And finally, prove that we weren't created.

Its only flaw is its existence. Just like every other religion out there.AuthenticM

*yawn*

Bigotry.:roll:

[QUOTE="kappareign"]if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?Silver_Dragon17

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="kappareign"]if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?kappareign

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

I suppose you want to be destroyed?:roll:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/evil.html

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/isaiah45.html

• Xenos has a good, concise overview of responses
• Greg Bahnsen argues that God has a good, moral reason for allowing evil to exist
• Cliff Knechtle
• Good article by John Clayton, including reasons for evil and his own experiences with it
• Why Would a Good God Allow Suffering? (PDF) by Kurt De Haan
• The Value of Suffering by Sue Bohlin
• Gregory Koukl has several other articles on evil

[QUOTE="kappareign"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="kappareign"]if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?Silver_Dragon17

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

I suppose you want to be destroyed?:roll:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/evil.html

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/isaiah45.html

• Xenos has a good, concise overview of responses
• Greg Bahnsen argues that God has a good, moral reason for allowing evil to exist
• Cliff Knechtle
• Good article by John Clayton, including reasons for evil and his own experiences with it
• Why Would a Good God Allow Suffering? (PDF) by Kurt De Haan
• The Value of Suffering by Sue Bohlin
• Gregory Koukl has several other articles on evil

Well I will give you this you do provide alot of links to back you up, while other just seem to well not.

[QUOTE="kappareign"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="kappareign"]if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?Silver_Dragon17

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

I suppose you want to be destroyed?:roll:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/evil.html

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/isaiah45.html

• Xenos has a good, concise overview of responses
• Greg Bahnsen argues that God has a good, moral reason for allowing evil to exist
• Cliff Knechtle
• Good article by John Clayton, including reasons for evil and his own experiences with it
• Why Would a Good God Allow Suffering? (PDF) by Kurt De Haan
• The Value of Suffering by Sue Bohlin
• Gregory Koukl has several other articles on evil

Okay I want to point out something before I start reading the rest of those, I skimmed the first. It shows the logical reasoning of your typical religous person, you start with a statement and you argue with that statement. It reeks of a bad argument, that alone doesn't mean that its wrong just that its a bad argument. A good scientist finds evidence, makes a theory based on that evidence and attempts to test that theory.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="kappareign"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="kappareign"]if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?lim_ak

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

I suppose you want to be destroyed?:roll:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/evil.html

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/isaiah45.html

• Xenos has a good, concise overview of responses
• Greg Bahnsen argues that God has a good, moral reason for allowing evil to exist
• Cliff Knechtle
• Good article by John Clayton, including reasons for evil and his own experiences with it
• Why Would a Good God Allow Suffering? (PDF) by Kurt De Haan
• The Value of Suffering by Sue Bohlin
• Gregory Koukl has several other articles on evil

Okay I want to point out something before I start reading the rest of those, I skimmed the first. It shows the logical reasoning of your typical religous person, you start with a statement and you argue with that statement. It reeks of a bad argument, that alone doesn't mean that its wrong just that its a bad argument. A good scientist finds evidence, makes a theory based on that evidence and attempts to test that theory.

Yeah, but unfourtunetly we cannot test the spirit realm. That or god decided to make it so that it could never be found out.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="kappareign"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="kappareign"]if evil is created by humans... and humans are created by god... isnt god evil? dont you have to destroy god to destroy evil?lim_ak

Humans were not created evil. . .they make themselves evil.

I suppose you want to be destroyed?:roll:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/evil.html

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/isaiah45.html

• Xenos has a good, concise overview of responses
• Greg Bahnsen argues that God has a good, moral reason for allowing evil to exist
• Cliff Knechtle
• Good article by John Clayton, including reasons for evil and his own experiences with it
• Why Would a Good God Allow Suffering? (PDF) by Kurt De Haan
• The Value of Suffering by Sue Bohlin
• Gregory Koukl has several other articles on evil

Okay I want to point out something before I start reading the rest of those, I skimmed the first. It shows the logical reasoning of your typical religous person, you start with a statement and you argue with that statement. It reeks of a bad argument, that alone doesn't mean that its wrong just that its a bad argument. A good scientist finds evidence, makes a theory based on that evidence and attempts to test that theory.

We aren't dealing with science.:| Don't expect a scientific argument.

We aren't dealing with science.:| Don't expect a scientific argument.

Silver_Dragon17

The authors of those links could at least have attempted to do those first two in order though.

The very fact that this quote is still used is evidence that people have no idea what they're talking about.

God is able and willing to prevent evil. So why doesn't He? Evil comes from humans, which just so happen to be His favorite creation. To destroy evil, humans have to go. Do you want that?

Silver_Dragon17

God created humans, therefore God created evil.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

The very fact that this quote is still used is evidence that people have no idea what they're talking about.

God is able and willing to prevent evil. So why doesn't He? Evil comes from humans, which just so happen to be His favorite creation. To destroy evil, humans have to go. Do you want that?

Decessus

God created humans, therefore God created evil.

1) Why bump this topic; and 2) Humans are not evil in and of themselves. . .I gave how many links explaining this?:roll:

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

The very fact that this quote is still used is evidence that people have no idea what they're talking about.

God is able and willing to prevent evil. So why doesn't He? Evil comes from humans, which just so happen to be His favorite creation. To destroy evil, humans have to go. Do you want that?

Decessus

God created humans, therefore God created evil.

anyway, God did create evil. says so right there in isaiah

but, would you rather be free-thinking creatures, or God-worshipping robots?

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

The very fact that this quote is still used is evidence that people have no idea what they're talking about.

God is able and willing to prevent evil. So why doesn't He? Evil comes from humans, which just so happen to be His favorite creation. To destroy evil, humans have to go. Do you want that?

mig_killer2

God created humans, therefore God created evil.

anyway, God did create evil. says so right there in isaiah

but, would you rather be free-thinking creatures, or God-worshipping robots?

God did not create evil.

1) Evil is...intentions and intentional acts (both being 'acts' or 'personally directed events' and not 'things') of intelligent agents, that violate the God-derived principles of love, fairness, or loyalty.

(2) No, 'acts' and 'events' are not 'made'--they are 'done'. God made and created 'things' and 'agents', not their 'acts' or 'events'...He 'did' His own 'acts' (of course), but other agents 'do' their own 'acts'. So God did not 'make evil' (the phrase is meaningless and nonsensical)

And, read this on that verse.

1) Why bump this topic; and 2) Humans are not evil in and of themselves. . .I gave how many links explaining this?

Silver_Dragon17

I didn't bump the topic, I merely responded to your post. If you don't feel like replying, feel free to skip over the topic and post somewhere else.

holly **** this topic is still going.

back on topic: every religion has some flaws

/thread

ppl that r looking for prove of my statement read the 17 pages before

God did not create evil.

1) Evil is...intentions and intentional acts (both being 'acts' or 'personally directed events' and not 'things') of intelligent agents, that violate the God-derived principles of love, fairness, or loyalty.

(2) No, 'acts' and 'events' are not 'made'--they are 'done'. God made and created 'things' and 'agents', not their 'acts' or 'events'...He 'did' His own 'acts' (of course), but other agents 'do' their own 'acts'. So God did not 'make evil' (the phrase is meaningless and nonsensical)

And, read this on that verse.

Silver_Dragon17

Then wouldn't it be appropriate to say that God created human beings with the capacity to do evil?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

God did not create evil.

1) Evil is...intentions and intentional acts (both being 'acts' or 'personally directed events' and not 'things') of intelligent agents, that violate the God-derived principles of love, fairness, or loyalty.

(2) No, 'acts' and 'events' are not 'made'--they are 'done'. God made and created 'things' and 'agents', not their 'acts' or 'events'...He 'did' His own 'acts' (of course), but other agents 'do' their own 'acts'. So God did not 'make evil' (the phrase is meaningless and nonsensical)

And, read this on that verse.

Decessus

Then wouldn't it be appropriate to say that God created human beings with the capacity to do evil?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

God did not create evil.

1) Evil is...intentions and intentional acts (both being 'acts' or 'personally directed events' and not 'things') of intelligent agents, that violate the God-derived principles of love, fairness, or loyalty.

(2) No, 'acts' and 'events' are not 'made'--they are 'done'. God made and created 'things' and 'agents', not their 'acts' or 'events'...He 'did' His own 'acts' (of course), but other agents 'do' their own 'acts'. So God did not 'make evil' (the phrase is meaningless and nonsensical)

And, read this on that verse.

Decessus

Then wouldn't it be appropriate to say that God created human beings with the capacity to do evil?

I don't know. Perhaps He thought He gave us sense enough to figure that out.

would you rather be some sort of robot or a free thinking creature?mig_killer2

What I want is irrelevant. If God created human beings with the capacity to do evil, then it cannot be said God is omnibenevolent.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"] would you rather be some sort of robot or a free thinking creature?Decessus

What I want is irrelevant. If God created human beings with the capacity to do evil, then it cannot be said God is omnibenevolent.

As long as free will exists, then the capacity to do evil exists. If free will doesn't exist, then God is a dictator.

Do you have children, Decessus?

As long as free will exists, then the capacity to do evil exists. If free will doesn't exist, then God is a dictator.

Do you have children, Decessus?

Silver_Dragon17

I don't disagree with you. That doesn't change the point that God created humans with the capacity to do evil, therefore God cannot be said to be omnibenevolant.

No, I do not have children.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

As long as free will exists, then the capacity to do evil exists. If free will doesn't exist, then God is a dictator.

Do you have children, Decessus?

Decessus

I don't disagree with you. That doesn't change the point that God created humans with the capacity to do evil, therefore God cannot be said to be omnibenevolant.

No, I do not have children.

Omnibenevolence meqans perfectly good, and all-loving. How is creating something capable of evil in opposition to this definition?

Do you plan to ever have kids?