Is Piracy Stealing?

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]Technically, you're actually "taking money" from the recording company.Velocitas8

Nope. Only the potential exists.

On the other end of the spectrum: you could also be making them money.

Example: say a kid burns a mixed music CD for his friend (which is an illegal reproduction and distribution of copyrighted music.) His friend likes a particular artist on the CD, and begins buying music from that artist on iTunes.

And your example is wrong as well, if you burned someone a cd, they will most likely pirate more songs of that artist.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]Technically, you're actually "taking money" from the recording company.Velocitas8

Nope. Only the potential exists.

On the other end of the spectrum: you could also be making them money.

Example: say a kid burns a mixed music CD for his friend (which is an illegal reproduction and distribution of copyrighted music.) His friend likes a particular artist on the CD, and begins buying music from that artist on iTunes.

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

Coming from someone who works in the music industry, I think piracy is terrible and IS stealing. Piracy (whether it be games, movies, music...ect) has impacted many different industries and it's a shame to see people trying to justify it. I don't judge others who do it, but piracy is stealing and should not be tolerated.

MarcusAntonius

Who's justifying anything? If the content providers could work out an updated business model, none of this would be an issue.

You are maybe taking away a 'potential' profit. However, if you never had the intention of ever paying for it, then it was never a potential profit. I'm not saying it's right. But how could the company be loosing anything if you were never going to pay for their product in the first place? You will always have the audience that wants to pay for the product and then you will always have the audience who won't.

Assassin1349

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]Technically, you're actually "taking money" from the recording company.Velocitas8

Nope. Only the potential exists.

On the other end of the spectrum: you could also be making them money.

Example: say a kid burns a mixed music CD for his friend (which is an illegal reproduction and distribution of copyrighted music.) His friend likes a particular artist on the CD, and begins buying music from that artist on iTunes.

Indeed, just don't tell the music industry that. However there are alternatives such as Last.FM and Pandora, which I'd be remiss if I didn't bring that up. A consumer only directly supports the artist by purchasing tickets and band memorabilia anyway.

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]

You are maybe taking away a 'potential' profit. However, if you never had the intention of ever paying for it, then it was never a potential profit. I'm not saying it's right. But how could the company be loosing anything if you were never going to pay for their product in the first place? You will always have the audience that wants to pay for the product and then you will always have the audience who won't.

JustPlainLucas

Wrong, you are taking money away from the industry, artist and the store that sell's them.

And your example is wrong as well, if you burned someone a cd, they will most likely pirate more songs of that artist.mexicangordo

Lol, no. "Not giving profit" is not equivalent to "taking away profit."

As for the second line: lol generalizations. I'm sure that's the case with some people, but certainly not all.

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]Technically, you're actually "taking money" from the recording company.MarcusAntonius

Nope. Only the potential exists.

On the other end of the spectrum: you could also be making them money.

Example: say a kid burns a mixed music CD for his friend (which is an illegal reproduction and distribution of copyrighted music.) His friend likes a particular artist on the CD, and begins buying music from that artist on iTunes.

Indeed, just don't tell the music industry that. However there are alternatives such as Last.FM and Pandora, which I'd be remiss if I didn't bring that up. A consumer only directly supports the artist by purchasing tickets and band memorabilia anyway.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

Coming from someone who works in the music industry, I think piracy is terrible and IS stealing. Piracy (whether it be games, movies, music...ect) has impacted many different industries and it's a shame to see people trying to justify it. I don't judge others who do it, but piracy is stealing and should not be tolerated.

mexicangordo

Who's justifying anything? If the content providers could work out an updated business model, none of this would be an issue.

They're getting there. Ditching DRM was a big step, digital sales, and lo and behold........music piracy has sharply declined! Amazing the things that happen when you treat your customers better!

Though iTunes can still go to hell.

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]Technically, you're actually "taking money" from the recording company.MarcusAntonius

Nope. Only the potential exists.

On the other end of the spectrum: you could also be making them money.

Example: say a kid burns a mixed music CD for his friend (which is an illegal reproduction and distribution of copyrighted music.) His friend likes a particular artist on the CD, and begins buying music from that artist on iTunes.

Indeed, just don't tell the music industry that. However there are alternatives such as Last.FM and Pandora, which I'd be remiss if I didn't bring that up. A consumer only directly supports the artist by purchasing tickets and band memorabilia anyway.

And there is no way pirating music will help any industry make money, that is just a very far fetched thought process.

Also, a consumer supports artists through sales of cd's, cd's and music are the ones that tie touring, merchandise, clothing...ect together. And artists get paid a lot of money extra for records sold.

If you want a free way to explore new artists look on YouTube, virtually every band out there has legally release a single on the site.blackngold29

Until it get hits with a takedown notice.

And even if he does buy the things from iTunes, he's got two copies and he only paid once.blackngold29

So? I have 3 copies of much of my music. One on the original CD, one on my computer ripped to lossless (computer listening+backup+quick access for transcoding), and one on my Cowon D2+ transcoded to aoTuV Vorbis..

I only paid for the orignal CD, yet this is all completely legal.

I don't see how this post supports your argument of the two of them being identical.

McJugga

Guy A: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to Best Buy and stealing it."
Guy B: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to download it on the Internet illegally."

Things Guy A and B have in common:

• Both have 10 dollars in their pocket
• Both want the same album
• Both obtained album illegally
• Both still have 10 dollars in their pocket

Gorillaz did not see a cent out of a potential 20 dollars.

That is very wrong my friend.... The music industry does get hurt when the "potential" is taken away.

And there is no way pirating music will help any industry make money, that is just a very far fetched thought process.

Also, a consumer supports artists through sales of cd's, cd's and music are the ones that tie touring, merchandise, clothing...ect together. And artists get paid a lot of money extra for records sold.

mexicangordo

You're the first person I've ever known who works in the music industry who has ever made that claim.

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]If you want a free way to explore new artists look on YouTube, virtually every band out there has legally release a single on the site.MarcusAntonius

Until it get hits with a takedown notice.

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]

You are maybe taking away a 'potential' profit. However, if you never had the intention of ever paying for it, then it was never a potential profit. I'm not saying it's right. But how could the company be loosing anything if you were never going to pay for their product in the first place? You will always have the audience that wants to pay for the product and then you will always have the audience who won't.

JustPlainLucas

To those saying piracy isn't stealing, stop justifying it for your particular needs, because it IS most definitely theft. Lets pretend I hacked itunes and downloaded all something million tracks, would you consider this "sharing" or stealing? Because its the same thing as going to any site and downloading something.

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]Wrong, you are taking money away from the industry, artist and the store that sell's them.

And your example is wrong as well, if you burned someone a cd, they will most likely pirate more songs of that artist.Velocitas8

Lol, no. "Not giving profit" is not equivalent to "taking away profit."

As for the second line: lol generalizations. I'm sure that's the case with some people, but certainly not all.

You still don't understand how sales go back to the artist. Even through legal downloading (i.e itunes) But I suppose because you download something you "wouldnt buy" (very silly argument) in the first place then its not "taking away profit" :roll:

And im not generalizing anything. If you give someone a c.d that you burned yourself without paying, why wouldn't they go on do it as well...:|

To those saying piracy isn't stealing, stop justifying it for your particular needs, because it IS most definitely theft. Lets pretend I hacked itunes and downloaded all something million tracks, would you consider this "sharing" or stealing? Because its the same thing as going to any site and downloading something.

racer8dan

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

I don't see how this post supports your argument of the two of them being identical.

JustPlainLucas

Guy A: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to Best Buy and stealing it."
Guy B: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to download it on the Internet illegally."

Things Guy A and B have in common:

• Both have 10 dollars in their pocket
• Both want the same album
• Both obtained album illegally
• Both still have 10 dollars in their pocket

Gorillaz did not see a cent out of a potential 20 dollars.

Guy A: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to Best Buy and stealing it."

Guy B: "I kind of want the Gorillaz album, but I don't think it's worth paying for. I'm not going to do anything v_v."

Things Guy A and B have in common:

* Both have 10 dollars in their pocket

* Both want the same album

* Both still have 10 dollars in their pocket

Gorillaz did not see a cent out of a potential 20 dollars.

Yes. And all you pirates are thieves.

But it's funny to see the excuses they come up with nonetheless.

Though iTunes can still go to hell.

MarcusAntonius

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

That is very wrong my friend.... The music industry does get hurt when the "potential" is taken away.

And there is no way pirating music will help any industry make money, that is just a very far fetched thought process.

Also, a consumer supports artists through sales of cd's, cd's and music are the ones that tie touring, merchandise, clothing...ect together. And artists get paid a lot of money extra for records sold.

MarcusAntonius

You're the first person I've ever known who works in the music industry who has ever made that claim.

However there is two sides of the spectrum, and I don't judge the other. All i can say is downloading in general changed the entire industry for the worse imo.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Though iTunes can still go to hell.

JustPlainLucas

Wouldn't it be nice if piracy didn't exist? Too bad you can't get rid of piracy.That's why there are those who partake in piracy and will probably never stop unless you eliminate piracy once and for all. Once again, you can't get rid of it. So, it's best to not include the folks who choose to pirate as a part of potential sales. They won't pay for it. Forget it. What businesses need to do is focus on making better products for the legitimate customers. Fight piracy with the law - not by imposing crippling DRM. Assassin1349

There is a great article on a portuguese scientific magazine to which explains how piracy is helping shapping the trade market of this digital era. In a good way that is

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Though iTunes can still go to hell.

JustPlainLucas

Amazon for me.

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]Wouldn't it be nice if piracy didn't exist? Too bad you can't get rid of piracy.That's why there are those who partake in piracy and will probably never stop unless you eliminate piracy once and for all. Once again, you can't get rid of it. So, it's best to not include the folks who choose to pirate as a part of potential sales. They won't pay for it. Forget it. What businesses need to do is focus on making better products for the legitimate customers. Fight piracy with the law - not by imposing crippling DRM. JustPlainLucas

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Though iTunes can still go to hell.

mexicangordo

There is a great article on a portuguese scientific magazine to which explains how piracy is helping shapping the trade market of this digital era. In a good way that is

Adrianstalker

I guess Im just one of those old fashion thinkers of the industry. :P

However I will say that I still hate how fast everything has gotten. Its become a singles game now. A big shame indeed.

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]:lol: I'll never support iTunes. I'm too stubborn in my ways with physical CDs. :Pblackngold29

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]And even if he does buy the things from iTunes, he's got two copies and he only paid once.Velocitas8

So? I have 3 copies of much of my music. One on the original CD, one on my computer ripped to lossless (computer listening+backup+quick access for transcoding), and one on my Cowon D2+ transcoded to aoTuV Vorbis..

I only paid for the orignal CD, yet this is all completely legal.

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"][QUOTE="Assassin1349"]Wouldn't it be nice if piracy didn't exist? Too bad you can't get rid of piracy.That's why there are those who partake in piracy and will probably never stop unless you eliminate piracy once and for all. Once again, you can't get rid of it. So, it's best to not include the folks who choose to pirate as a part of potential sales. They won't pay for it. Forget it. What businesses need to do is focus on making better products for the legitimate customers. Fight piracy with the law - not by imposing crippling DRM. Assassin1349

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]And even if he does buy the things from iTunes, he's got two copies and he only paid once.blackngold29

So? I have 3 copies of much of my music. One on the original CD, one on my computer ripped to lossless (computer listening+backup+quick access for transcoding), and one on my Cowon D2+ transcoded to aoTuV Vorbis..

I only paid for the orignal CD, yet this is all completely legal.

Okay, but that doesn't relate at all to what I just said/what I quoted.

And yet, one steals a physical object that costs money to produce.

Guy A: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to Best Buy and stealing it."

Guy B: "I kind of want the Gorillaz album, but I don't think it's worth paying for. I'm not going to do anything v_v."

Things Guy A and B have in common:

* Both have 10 dollars in their pocket

* Both want the same album

* Both still have 10 dollars in their pocket

Gorillaz did not see a cent out of a potential 20 dollars.

McJugga

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"][QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"] Which is why I included the part of it influencing the ones who WOULD buy CDs had piracy not been around for so long. My previous post still supports the fact that piracy still IS affecting sales.racer8dan

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

And yet, one steals a physical object that costs money to produce.

Guy A: "I want the new Gorillaz album. I'm going to Best Buy and stealing it."

Guy B: "I kind of want the Gorillaz album, but I don't think it's worth paying for. I'm not going to do anything v_v."

Things Guy A and B have in common:

* Both have 10 dollars in their pocket

* Both want the same album

* Both still have 10 dollars in their pocket

Gorillaz did not see a cent out of a potential 20 dollars.

JustPlainLucas

I also don't see the difference between buying second hand cd's (legal) and pirating CD's (illegal). Either way the artists and the labels they are slaves of don't see a dime.brutal_one88

Aye, buying second-hand is equivalent to piracy in my eyes.

This also happens in the video game industry with the used games market. It affects the games industry financially to an even higher degree than it does the recording industry. It's getting to the point that publishers are having to provide additonal incentives to those who buy games new (EA has been doing this lately.)

Awesome! I give lots of kudos for people who don't download music (as much of course) and those who still buy c.d's/records.

mexicangordo

Yes.. but it's worse than stealing.. because not only do you steal.. you sell/buy aswell.. making more profit and taking more money..Strider_91

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]But it's not the same as stealing as the company isn't loosing any of their products. Assassin1349

But it's not the same as stealing as the company isn't loosing any of their products. Assassin1349

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

There is a great article on a portuguese scientific magazine to which explains how piracy is helping shapping the trade market of this digital era. In a good way that is

mexicangordo

I guess Im just one of those old fashion thinkers of the industry. :P

However I will say that I still hate how fast everything has gotten. Its become a singles game now. A big shame indeed.

It could induce a competition effect?

Company has to make their official copy worth more and better to deal with the free illegal copies (competition).

Just speculating.:P

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

There is a great article on a portuguese scientific magazine to which explains how piracy is helping shapping the trade market of this digital era. In a good way that is

mexicangordo

I guess Im just one of those old fashion thinkers of the industry. :P

However I will say that I still hate how fast everything has gotten. Its become a singles game now. A big shame indeed.

Its "good" because a practice of those who makes the products put inside the price that is called intellectual property. In historical terms intellectual property was basically the greatest economy scam ever. It is the reason why you canpay U$10.000 for a Gucci purse that the production cost didn't even reached 100 bucks. Now a talented pirate could imitate exactly the same purse with the same materials and sell for 200 bucks for ex. In that form the piracy act is helping shaping (pushing) a more just price for the original and forgetting the price indication that the brand does. On terms of digital piracy same is happening but on a much more larger scale to the point that freeaware and shareware are now a huge deal.

Nothing is purely black and white there is a huge grey area for everything, so saying that piracy can cause nothing but negative effect is wrong, same saying that would only make it good

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]They don't make money on cd's they make money on the content that's on the cd, when your taking content that otherwise would have been on the cd, your stealing directly from the company.

racer8dan

Yes it is, sad so many said it isnt. Stealing is is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent, so yes it is stealing.