Worst Super Smash Bros. Brawl Character

Game and watch, hes crap.-Sigil-

He is the most imporved character from melee and he is one of the best in the game, but he's pretty hard to get used to.

Game and watch, hes crap.-Sigil-

[QUOTE="-Sigil-"]Game and watch, hes crap.Pices

Read my obove post with the captain falcon and snake of equal skill...

Also, it is well known that yoshi is right now the worst character. (Read the tier list I posted)

The lowest ranked characters are all follows

Kirby

Ganondorf

Olimar

Pikachu

Wario

Yoshi

All are rated 5 out of 10

Jaysonguy

Kirby as the lowest rank?! In Melee, yes. In Brawl, he finally got buffed again. He's one of the easiest characters to control in the game, has powerful smashes, and has wonderful aerial game. Kirby isn't that hard to control, his light weight is the only thing to watch out for.

Pikachu? He was my main back in the first SSB. In Brawl, he is just as annoying as Pit and Meta Knight. A real pikachu player uses a combination of dissorienting moves, not just spamming thunder. His electric smashes have also got a significant power boost from the last game.

I'm not going to comment on the rest, but I get the feeling that people say the worst are the characters they can't play as. Strong characters, weak characters. That's only the selfish perception of selecting a character. True players stay with their favorites.

[QUOTE="toadster101"]I main Wario and I would love to see the faces of everybody that doesn't expect me to win ( or do well, if I do indeed lose ). Nobody expects Wario. He can be absolutely deadly if used properly.ZumaJones07

My Wii is broken. I shipped it into Nintendo, and I'm moving in a week, gonna be gone for another week after that. I'll play you in August/Late July if you'd like.

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="-Sigil-"]Game and watch, hes crap.SakuWRYYYYY

Read my obove post with the captain falcon and snake of equal skill...

Also, it is well known that yoshi is right now the worst character. (Read the tier list I posted)

The difference is, Game and Watch is considered to be one of the best characters in the game ( by most logical tier lists ).

[QUOTE="SakuWRYYYYY"]

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="-Sigil-"]Game and watch, hes crap.toadster101

Read my obove post with the captain falcon and snake of equal skill...

Also, it is well known that yoshi is right now the worst character. (Read the tier list I posted)

The difference is, Game and Watch is considered to be one of the best characters in the game ( by most logical tier lists ).

Sorry, meant to put IMO.

[QUOTE="-Sigil-"]Game and watch, hes crap.ZumaJones07

Sure, lets play whenever. I added you so PM me when you wanna smash it up.

[QUOTE="toadster101"][QUOTE="SakuWRYYYYY"]

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="-Sigil-"]Game and watch, hes crap.-Sigil-

Read my obove post with the captain falcon and snake of equal skill...

Also, it is well known that yoshi is right now the worst character. (Read the tier list I posted)

The difference is, Game and Watch is considered to be one of the best characters in the game ( by most logical tier lists ).

Sorry, meant to put IMO.

[QUOTE="-Sigil-"][QUOTE="toadster101"][QUOTE="SakuWRYYYYY"]

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="-Sigil-"]Game and watch, hes crap.Pices

Read my obove post with the captain falcon and snake of equal skill...

Also, it is well known that yoshi is right now the worst character. (Read the tier list I posted)

The difference is, Game and Watch is considered to be one of the best characters in the game ( by most logical tier lists ).

Sorry, meant to put IMO.

Smash card? My sig? I made it myself. Photoshop cs3

[QUOTE="darkslider99"][QUOTE="toadster101"]

[QUOTE="Chaos_Sanjuro"]Yoshi and Captain Falcon are undeniably the worst characters in the game.toadster101

No, you just aren't good with them.

No, he probably just sucks with them so he immediatley thinks "lulz dey suk!"

...and I agree with you, Olimar kicks ass.

@ darkslider: If you wanna play post amounts, I'll just assume you have no life because you have 10,000 + posts. I just decided to use my GameFAQs account to try to stop the stupidity

@Toadster: You can assume all you want, but CF and Yoshi are at the bottom of the lists. Falcon has **** priority, Smash attacks have starting/ending lag, not enough knockback, nerfed knee, and he isn't that heavy. He also has the worst matchups of any character in the game. Yoshi hasn't changed a whole lot since Melee, so he still sucks. "All characters are equal!" is BS, quit deluding yourselves.

Whoever the guy is that said tiers are made by the game makers, and not the gamers, is rather silly. The tiers are made by the gamers, you fool! Seriously, your comments are some of the silliest I've ever seen! I laugh at your ignorance!

I apologize if I offend anybody. I'm sure you're a great person, but your ignorance is much too silly.

[QUOTE="toadster101"][QUOTE="darkslider99"][QUOTE="toadster101"]

[QUOTE="Chaos_Sanjuro"]Yoshi and Captain Falcon are undeniably the worst characters in the game.Chaos_Sanjuro

No, you just aren't good with them.

No, he probably just sucks with them so he immediatley thinks "lulz dey suk!"

...and I agree with you, Olimar kicks ass.

@ darkslider: If you wanna play post amounts, I'll just assume you have no life because you have 10,000 + posts. I just decided to use my GameFAQs account to try to stop the stupidity

@Toadster: You can assume all you want, but CF and Yoshi are at the bottom of the lists. Falcon has **** priority, Smash attacks have starting/ending lag, not enough knockback, nerfed knee, and he isn't that heavy. He also has the worst matchups of any character in the game. Yoshi hasn't changed a whole lot since Melee, so he still sucks. "All characters are equal!" is BS, quit deluding yourselves.

I admitted they were a few posts back. I still don't believe in Tier Lists, but whatever.

The idiocy in this topic is ridiculous.

Altough not to be marked, I'd definately say that Captain Falcon is bar none the worst in the game. Granted because of a recent tournament results spike, he might not be placed the lowest on the eventual first Tier list the SBR makes, but that could easily change. It's ridiculous how bad he is. If you want an explanation, look at the copypasta created by me that has silenced many.

CF is considered so horrible because he's a Melee character in Brawl Engine, was apparently is a HORRIBLE mix and has ruined what he was in Melee. His comboing potential was what made him in Melee, without that it really cripples his game. He has Atrocious Priority on just about every move, since a great majority of his moves can be stopped by simple jabs. Average strength attack with either a lot of ending lag or Startup lag, that don't even do damage worth it. He cannot approach AT ALL, he's probably one of the easiest characters to camp once you get into high levels of play, easily telegraphed, has trouble racking up damage, Nerfed Knee that no longer leads to combos and has a stupid sweetspot hitbox, the fact that so many others either are great newcomers, or Veterans that got buffed doesn't help him either. When you add to the fact he has likely the worst matchups in the game and Horrible Tourney outings so far (Edit, well, actually not completely bad), he definately at this point in time is a serious canadate for the worst character in Brawl. Things aren't looking so good for him at all.

For those who think Falcon>Ganon actually makes his hits counts, Autocanceled Dair into Upsmash is 50%, probably more damage then two falcon punches. He has a great tech chasing game, is a heavy and can tank things out, Ganoncide when he gets up a stock. Ok priority and can acutally approach and better aerials that really put the hurting on someone unlike Falcon Thunderstorming that is very effective on certain characters. While his matchups are bad, they're not quite as bad as Falcon's with virtually no advantages against anyone. I still believe Ganon is still not that good, but he's not nearly as bad as Falcon. If you ever want to see a good example of how well Ganon can be played, look up Sliq, a member of GUNPUNCH!

The idiocy in this topic is ridiculous.

Altough not to be marked, I'd definately say that Captain Falcon is bar none the worst in the game. Granted because of a recent tournament results spike, he might not be placed the lowest on the eventual first Tier list the SBR makes, but that could easily change. It's ridiculous how bad he is. If you want an explanation, look at the copypasta created by me that has silenced many.

CF is considered so horrible because he's a Melee character in Brawl Engine, was apparently is a HORRIBLE mix and has ruined what he was in Melee. His comboing potential was what made him in Melee, without that it really cripples his game. He has Atrocious Priority on just about every move, since a great majority of his moves can be stopped by simple jabs. Average strength attack with either a lot of ending lag or Startup lag, that don't even do damage worth it. He cannot approach AT ALL, he's probably one of the easiest characters to camp once you get into high levels of play, easily telegraphed, has trouble racking up damage, Nerfed Knee that no longer leads to combos and has a stupid sweetspot hitbox, the fact that so many others either are great newcomers, or Veterans that got buffed doesn't help him either. When you add to the fact he has likely the worst matchups in the game and Horrible Tourney outings so far (Edit, well, actually not completely bad), he definately at this point in time is a serious canadate for the worst character in Brawl. Things aren't looking so good for him at all.

For those who think Falcon>Ganon actually makes his hits counts, Autocanceled Dair into Upsmash is 50%, probably more damage then two falcon punches. He has a great tech chasing game, is a heavy and can tank things out, Ganoncide when he gets up a stock. Ok priority and can acutally approach and better aerials that really put the hurting on someone unlike Falcon Thunderstorming that is very effective on certain characters. While his matchups are bad, they're not quite as bad as Falcon's with virtually no advantages against anyone. I still believe Ganon is still not that good, but he's not nearly as bad as Falcon. If you ever want to see a good example of how well Ganon can be played, look up Sliq, a member of GUNPUNCH!

Longhornfan11

Hmmm... this seems about right.

Well, here's the match up chart. Look at Captain Falcon, Ganondorf and Yoshi. They do look crappy. I still don't support tiers, though. I've seen some excellent Ganondorf players online.

Well, here's the match up chart. Look at Captain Falcon, Ganondorf and Yoshi. They do look crappy. I still don't support tiers, though. I've seen some excellent Ganondorf players online.

toadster101

lol.. this topic is the biggest load of tripe ever. the best or worst player goes down to opinion. if ur good with captain falcon, and $#!7 with mr game and watch, then that table looks like a load of bull****.

Standard gamespot... enforce ur opinion on others, and keep posting for 4 pages unless they accept.. u hav good determination tho, will look forward to ur comments when ur 12.. still 6yrs to go tho!

fair dues, u posted the massive chart, so i assumed u were the guy who started the whole discussion. apologies. my message applies to the rest of those guys out there who cnt make up their mind themselves, so hav to resort to other people's opinions..

PS - sorry man, didnt mean to go after u like tht. peace out

I found it interesting that on the tournament Teir list Snake is at the very top but on the chart he seems to be at a dissadvantage to most.

Ah thats my Solid Snake, overcoming the odds the doing great things!

Btw I main Sonic and absolutely love every second of it. ^_^PenguinGod19

lolwut? You must have read it the wrong way.

[QUOTE="toadster101"]

Well, here's the match up chart. Look at Captain Falcon, Ganondorf and Yoshi. They do look crappy. I still don't support tiers, though. I've seen some excellent Ganondorf players online.

Maazio

lol.. this topic is the biggest load of tripe ever. the best or worst player goes down to opinion. if ur good with captain falcon, and $#!7 with mr game and watch, then that table looks like a load of bull****.

Standard gamespot... enforce ur opinion on others, and keep posting for 4 pages unless they accept.. u hav good determination tho, will look forward to ur comments when ur 12.. still 6yrs to go tho!

You CANNOT be serious.

Of course any player can be played well, but it doesn't stop the fact that a character is downright crappy.

longhorn has cometh

ah, the shining bliss of logic :)

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

Prima/Nintendo so I'm going to go with the people that made the game.

Since Nintendo doesn't do any in house publishing they hired Prima to do it and they gave Prima full access to the Nintendo studios and talent that the old Nintendo guide staff had.

So if Nintendo says those are the lowest characters I'm going to go with what they say.

Jaysonguy

Prima just makes the guides. They are far from the final arbiters of tiers. Neither are the devs. They can make the moves, balance damage and hit areas as much as possible, but it is the people who continually test and refine the game for months and years that will discover who is the best/worst.

The devs haven't even found all the glitches in the game, there's no way they could find all the different techniques that define a tier. And despite Prima's access to the studio, game etc... they don't have the time or the amount of people to discover all the ins and outs of the characters.

Gamers however, have the access to the internets, which allows hundreds of thousands of people share information on every little detail of Brawl for years, and therefore whittle down the list of characters until they have discovered who is the best/worst.

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

girlymaaan

I trust the people who made the game

Prima now has access to all the stuff that the Nintendo Power guide staff did. That means they get to ask the makers directly about their games.

So who do you trust more? Someone who makes the game or someone who played the game?

As for how Olimar breaks down he's a light character with his strongest Pikmin only being mid level for damage. His offense is rated 5, his defense is 3, projectile is 7, final smash is 9, throwing ability is 6, and speed is 6.

[QUOTE="girlymaaan"]

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

Jaysonguy

I trust the people who made the game

Prima now has access to all the stuff that the Nintendo Power guide staff did. That means they get to ask the makers directly about their games.

So who do you trust more? Someone who makes the game or someone who played the game?

As for how Olimar breaks down he's a light character with his strongest Pikmin only being mid level for damage. His offense is rated 5, his defense is 3, projectile is 7, final smash is 9, throwing ability is 6, and speed is 6.

All I can say is... LOL.

What does Prima have to say about Wario? lol I'm curious...because I destroy with himDurhamster

He's listed as 5 overall

He's a heavyweight but he's in the middle tier for KO potential. He's difficult to KO but his ability to KO others is only average. They do note that a fully charged Wario Waft makes up for any shortcomings in physical strength when it comes to KO's

Offense 6, defense 4, projectile -, final smash 6, throwing ability 7, speed 6.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="girlymaaan"]

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

toadster101

I trust the people who made the game

Prima now has access to all the stuff that the Nintendo Power guide staff did. That means they get to ask the makers directly about their games.

So who do you trust more? Someone who makes the game or someone who played the game?

As for how Olimar breaks down he's a light character with his strongest Pikmin only being mid level for damage. His offense is rated 5, his defense is 3, projectile is 7, final smash is 9, throwing ability is 6, and speed is 6.

All I can say is... LOL.

Yes, you've made it known that you think Nintendo lies about their own game and the devs made up more lies about how they designed the characters.

[QUOTE="Durhamster"]What does Prima have to say about Wario? lol I'm curious...because I destroy with himJaysonguy

He's listed as 5 overall

He's a heavyweight but he's in the middle tier for KO potential. He's difficult to KO but his ability to KO others is only average. They do note that a fully charged Wario Waft makes up for any shortcomings in physical strength when it comes to KO's

Offense 6, defense 4, projectile -, final smash 6, throwing ability 7, speed 6.

do they count throws when they measure KO potential?

[QUOTE="toadster101"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="girlymaaan"]

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

Jaysonguy

I trust the people who made the game

Prima now has access to all the stuff that the Nintendo Power guide staff did. That means they get to ask the makers directly about their games.

So who do you trust more? Someone who makes the game or someone who played the game?

As for how Olimar breaks down he's a light character with his strongest Pikmin only being mid level for damage. His offense is rated 5, his defense is 3, projectile is 7, final smash is 9, throwing ability is 6, and speed is 6.

All I can say is... LOL.

Yes, you've made it known that you think Nintendo lies about their own game and the devs made up more lies about how they designed the characters.

Excuse me? Nintendo Power is NOT Nintendo. Your theories are absolute crap.

[QUOTE="toadster101"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="girlymaaan"]

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

Jaysonguy

I trust the people who made the game

Prima now has access to all the stuff that the Nintendo Power guide staff did. That means they get to ask the makers directly about their games.

So who do you trust more? Someone who makes the game or someone who played the game?

As for how Olimar breaks down he's a light character with his strongest Pikmin only being mid level for damage. His offense is rated 5, his defense is 3, projectile is 7, final smash is 9, throwing ability is 6, and speed is 6.

All I can say is... LOL.

Yes, you've made it known that you think Nintendo lies about their own game and the devs made up more lies about how they designed the characters.

So prima is aware that snake has 2 disjointed hitboxes, can snakedash, that ness and lucas have an infinite grab attack, that dedede can chain grab almost everyone in the game AND that snake is thecurrent best character in the game?

doubtful. highly doubtful. as stated before, prima doesn't play the game on a competitive level so they aren't aware of each character's strenghts. if they named all those things i said in thewir guide, then why are people only discovering them recently when they could have just looked at prima's guide?

[QUOTE="girlymaaan"]

@the guy who put Olimar as the worst: Have you ever seen a good Olimar player? They're pretty freakin' good. Just because Prima says that a character is bad, doesn't mean he IS bad. Tiers are formed largely on tourney results, not some guy's opinion. Who do you trust more, the people who actually use characters and fight on a egular basis, or the people who just decided him as bad?

BTW, could you quote exactly what they said about Olimar? Just so we can see if it is legitamate?

Jaysonguy

I trust the people who made the game

Prima now has access to all the stuff that the Nintendo Power guide staff did. That means they get to ask the makers directly about their games.

So who do you trust more? Someone who makes the game or someone who played the game?

As for how Olimar breaks down he's a light character with his strongest Pikmin only being mid level for damage. His offense is rated 5, his defense is 3, projectile is 7, final smash is 9, throwing ability is 6, and speed is 6.

I like how they use numbers rather than actual arguments. Pikmin Throw racks up insane percentages, and his Smashes and Aerials are fantastic with just about any Pikmin, but using Purple to smash and Red/Yellow in the air will amplify his attacks. Grabs are easily buffed by using Blue Pikmin, and defense is hardly a problem due to the insane priority his Pikmin have, Olimar very rarely has to even hit opponents himself.

Olimar's only downsides are his lousy recovery and incredibly light weight.

Seriously, go look up a good Olimar player on Youtube, I'll wait.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Yes, you've made it known that you think Nintendo lies about their own game and the devs made up more lies about how they designed the characters.

toadster101

Excuse me? Nintendo Power is NOT Nintendo. Your theories are absolute crap.

This is ther last time I'm going to explain this.

Nintendo published their own guides and that team had access to Nintendo

Once Nintendo stopped publishing in house they picked a successor for the guides, that turned out to be Prima. Now they offer Prima the same access that they offered the old team making the guides. Nintendo also steers users right to Prima as I've shown.

If you don't get it this time maybe ask someone else for help because three is my limit.

Yes, you've made it known that you think Nintendo lies about their own game and the devs made up more lies about how they designed the characters.

Jaysonguy

The devs tried their best to balance the characters, but aside from blatantly buffing or nerfing a character their isn't much of a way to control how good they are, due to the incredibly diverse amount of moves. The only way to truly know if a character is good, is to playtest them against others of equal skill with their characters, over and over. Neither the devs nor the Prima writers were able to do it as efficiently as millions of gamers with internet access.

I thought GameFAQs could be insanely stupid, but then I was linked here from the GFaqs Brawl Boards.

Ok, I'm gonna address two types of people here.

To people who think tiers don't exist:

Would you say these characters are equal?

Character A:

Heavy
Amazing Recovery
Godly Priority
Insane Projectiles
Awesome Approach
Awesome Maneuverability
Strong
Stupidly Insane Mindgames
Awesome Air Game
Disjointed hitboxes
Somewhat slow



Character B:

Fast Running Speed
Some Strong Attacks
Strong attacks have bad startup lag, and horrible ending lag
Best move is hard to hit with
Crap Priority
Mediocre Recovery
Can't Tech-Chase
Horrible Approach
Meh Air Game
Physics don't agree with him

To people who say "_____ doesn't suck, you don't know how to use him.":

I love playing as Captain Falcon. I don't main him, and I'm no pro with him, but I can at least say I know how to use him. He is the worst character in the game. The key to getting good with a bottom tier character is knowing that they are not good, seeing their disadvantages, and trying to either work around them (lolhard) or use those disadvantages to your advantage.

There's more I could say, but this will probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

So prima is aware that snake has 2 disjointed hitboxes, can snakedash, that ness and lucas have an infinite grab attack, that dedede can chain grab almost everyone in the game AND that snake is thecurrent best character in the game?

doubtful. highly doubtful. as stated before, prima doesn't play the game on a competitive level so they aren't aware of each character's strenghts. if they named all those things i said in thewir guide, then why are people only discovering them recently when they could have just looked at prima's guide?

Sonick54

Ok, this is how it works

Prima gets the baseline for everyone, some are higher and some are lower. Not all the characters are equal.

That's how they're able to release a set of numbers from 1-10 that goes down the list of attacks, defense, speed, favorite cake.....

From there it's up to finding out what glitches you can exploit in the game. Even Prima says that strategy keeps changing for characters, a strategy isn't the same as what a character's attributes are. Let's say that Donkey Kong is the strongest character in the game (no idea just riffing here) but Ike can chain an attack together that can KO DK, does that make Ike stronger then DK? Of course not.

To people who say "_____ doesn't suck, you don't know how to use him.":

I love playing as Captain Falcon. I don't main him, and I'm no pro with him, but I can at least say I know how to use him. He is the worst character in the game. The key to getting good with a bottom tier character is knowing that they are not good, seeing their disadvantages, and trying to either work around them (lolhard) or use those disadvantages to your advantage.

There's more I could say, but this will probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

I__Am__Aaron

Yeah, tiers exist, but Brawl was balanced in a way that most of the mid/higher tiers are balanced really well to the point where most people can't tell the difference, and the best characters in the game take a lot of work to use.

It isn't like Melee where Fox and Falco can decimate pretty much every other character right out of the gate.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Sonick54"]

So prima is aware that snake has 2 disjointed hitboxes, can snakedash, that ness and lucas have an infinite grab attack, that dedede can chain grab almost everyone in the game AND that snake is thecurrent best character in the game?

doubtful. highly doubtful. as stated before, prima doesn't play the game on a competitive level so they aren't aware of each character's strenghts. if they named all those things i said in thewir guide, then why are people only discovering them recently when they could have just looked at prima's guide?

I__Am__Aaron

Ok, this is how it works

Prima gets the baseline for everyone, some are higher and some are lower. Not all the characters are equal.

That's how they're able to release a set of numbers from 1-10 that goes down the list of attacks, defense, speed, favorite cake.....

From there it's up to finding out what glitches you can exploit in the game. Even Prima says that strategy keeps changing for characters, a strategy isn't the same as what a character's attributes are. Let's say that Donkey Kong is the strongest character in the game (no idea just riffing here) but Ike can chain an attack together that can KO DK, does that make Ike stronger then DK? Of course not.

Just shut up, Jayson. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you keep falling back on the Prima guide like it's the Bible. Mind you that this same guide had the strategies for Meta Knight to spam down b all over the stage, and for Pikachu to spam Thunder. These people do not have a clue what they are talking about, as evidented when they said that Wolf has the least power of all the Star Fox characters. And Prima never said how to exploit anything. Did they know about the Snakedash, which gives Snake incredible approach and maneuvering speed? No. Did they know about the Death Grab, which makes Ness and Lucas worse characters, as they can easily lose to a Marth? No. Also, they had reused several parts in the guide for characters like Link and Toon Link, who play nothing alike. Face it, your guide sucks, the people who wrote it know nothing about the game, and since you must keep falling back on it, neither do you.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

-Mark Twain

Hey, I'm one of the only people in this topic that doesn't support tiers, so don't be attacking me.toadster101

I agree wit you i dont really like tiers either if ur good with a handful of chars choose a couple and train w/ em and c if u get any good

Olimar sucks. Hes too dependent on the pikmin and without them he can't use any specials. and also his specials are useless, especially since

the down B only bring backseparatedpikmin, B up is only when you want to hang on to a ledge, and throwing pikmin doesn't really pack a

punch, but at least his final smash is good. Jigglypuff also sucks, but i pefer him/her (whatever) over olimar. i dunno why i just do.