Crumbling? Nothing indicates that it is. Even Christian science societies, along with Christian institutions of learning (Wheaton College, Biola University, Huntington University, etc) all teach evolution.

I do not see how The Bible and evolutionary theory be at odds.

STWELCH

Evolutionary theory definitely is "shaky" to put it lightly. Anyone who actually takes the time to study the evidence for both sides of the debate will, at the very least, say that the discussion is still open. There are countless scientific laws and discoveries that directly contradict the naturalist origin of life and the universe which cannot be answered by even the staunchest of its defenders (one of which is the principle of biogenesis as discovered by Louis Pasteur).

Even though I know you won't do it, I suggest you read either Science v. Evolution or I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest, the former of which contains over 3,000 scientific facts that disprove naturalistic theory.

Oh, and you do not see a contridiction in claiming that an omniscient, omnipotent God would use an unintelligent, random process to create not only the entire universe, but humanity as a whole? That seems really intellectually dishonest...

According to the New Testament what Hitler did was justified. The New Testament is messed up.Varese_basic

Firstly, thank you for completely avoiding the question.

Secondly, would you mind pointing out where in the New Testament, the genocide of Jews is promoted, instead of making wild, baseless claims?

[QUOTE="mrcong"]

But, according to the Darwinian concept of survival-of-the-fittest, if an impoverished man has no food and is on the verge of death, it is perfectly acceptable for him to murder a wealthier man for his food. Thus, Darwinism allows for murder.

Hewkii

but then it's not murder, now is it.

So, are you saying that a poor man can kill a wealthy man for sustenance without being guilty of murder? Thank you for proving to the world that Darwinism's doctrines allows for the murder of innocent people in the name of self-preservation.

Let's just hope you never become the wealthy man of the hypothetical example, or else you may just start believing in God's moral law=)

Good and evil are both dynamic. What's good to one person is evil to another. We have to live by certain unwritten (and written) laws to be able to function as a society. But a case is rarely black and white.Vfanek

So, if morality is determined by the dictates of society, was Hitler justified in his slaughter of the Jews? After all, the laws of Germany's Nazi Regime deemed the Jewish people as an inferior people-sub-human-and consequentially worthy of imprisonment, torture, and death. However, because these were the laws of the time there, they couldn't be immoral, could they?

What if President Bush decided to issue an executive order calling for all athiests to be placed in concentration camps for experimentation and torture? Would you complain in any way? Or would you say that the act is good, for it falls within the written laws of the nation?

unless it's more beneficial to you to have said person alive. hence why we have hive minds like ants and any sort of herd animal.

Hewkii

But, according to the Darwinian concept of survival-of-the-fittest, if an impoverished man has no food and is on the verge of death, it is perfectly acceptable for him to murder a wealthier man for his food. Thus, Darwinism allows for murder.

Where was God when this happened? Or was he waiting for it to happen?

Shad0ki11

God, as he is omniscient, knew that Adam and Eve would eventually sin, thus bringing a sin nature upon humanity as a whole as a result of their free will. As such was inevitable if humanity was ever to exist as anything but androids, God crafted a plan for man's redemption through Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Anyone who chooses to accept that sacrifice and put their faith in Christ as their savior will be saved from their impending judgement in hell.

ah, but notice in the story that they did not hesitate after Satan (or the snake, but let's leave that for another time) told them of its properties. if there was an inherant moral code then they should have at least questioned the Serpent before continuing (sort of like how Job stayed true to his beliefs for most of the story and Jesus resisted the Devil's temptation).

Hewkii

First of all, not everyone hesitates when performing evil. There are some that are immediately sucked in, and do not even put up a fight. To say that because in this particular case there was no hesitation proves that we do not have a moral code instilled by God is a fallacy of logic. You cannot use one case and apply it to every case.

Moreover, just because the Bible doesn't explicitly mention a dramatic hesitation doesn't mean it didn't happen. Perhaps it was an internal misgiving and didn't externally manifest itself. Perhaps Moses simply was not inspired to include the detaiof hesitation, as it is rather irrelevant.

Regardless, because there was no hesitation mentioned doesn't mean no one has a conscience.

Good and evil are not dictated by God or man. If it were by God, then nothing would stop Him from being an evil dictator, and no man has the right to dictate good or evil.

Theokhoth

I'm pretty sure the term "dictated by man" refers to moral relativism (the belief that truth and thus morality changes based on the individual, eliminating absolute standards of good and evil.

[QUOTE="mrcong"]

it means that we can only know good from evil because a perfectly-just creator God who instilled an inherent moral code within his creation.

Hewkii

well in that case it's not true, the Adam and Eve story clearly disproves that.

How do Adam and Eve disprove it? They were created with a moral code within them (so they know right from wrong)

However, God also created them with a free will-which allows humans to ignore/suppress their conscience.