@VegasDawg @geosurface Okay I'm going to try to keep this shorter and sweeter:
You keep being so hung up on what you said in your first post, I know what you said in that post, and I've told you what portion I was choosing to focus on and respond to. I took issue with your implication that the whole point (or marketed claim) about the game was the graphical improvement, AND that they hadn't done much in that regard. I disagreed with both those ideas, so I mentioned other reasons I felt were significant in their decision to release the product, AND I gave you reasons why I disagree about the graphical improvement being minor.
So please, stop harping on what the main point of your earlier post was. I have made it clear, I wasn't responding to the main point! I actually somewhat agree with you that it would be a bit silly to buy this if you have the PS3 version complete with DLC already, though I certainly wouldn't fault someone for doing it. But again, and for the last time, I was responding to your later implications about the graphical improvement and the reasons for the release. Got it?
You say the title doesn't deserve to be called a remaster, but to my eye the graphical fidelity increase is similar to the jump from a DVD to a blu-ray and nobody would take issue with the fact that Jaws, for instance, represents a remaster because they went back and did a new transfer from the original film and color balanced it, etc. Some people (like my dad for instance) would not give a hoot about the difference between fidelity on the DVD and blu-ray, and frankly probably would be fine with watching it on VHS. Others of us do notice and do care and do value that level of improvement. Perhaps we're more visual, perhaps we're geeks, whatever.
But the fact is, it's not as though Sony misrepresented what this was. You may not like the word "remaster" but they had screenshots available, even more are available now including videos... they included the DLC, they never made any false claims about what they'd done for this release, or what was included, and they acknowledged what it was in its pricing being $10 less.
You may be older than I, but you argue like a middle schooler. "Mouth breathing" and all these implications about my intelligence, ability to comprehend what you're saying, etc. Tone it down and try to be more civil. This petty insult-laden approach isn't befitting a man of your age.
I completely respect your right to believe this release isn't worth your money, and I would encourage you to act on that belief by not purchasing it.
@VegasDawg "How has Sony turned seemingly turned intelligent human beings into slobbering ignoramus's? The point was to make a cash grab, It always is all about the cash with every stinking corporation."
Of course it's about making money. You say that like it's a bad thing. Call it a "cash grab" if you like, but the fact remains that there are a lot of people who have and will have PS4s who never had a PS3. Making this game available on PS4 makes a lot of sense. It was incredibly well received, and plenty of games get GOTY versions with the DLC packaged in. Skyrim, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Bioshock 1, 2, and Infinite, Borderlands 1 & 2, Dishonored, Batman games, Red Dead Redemption, GTA games, etc. etc. etc.
The point is, it's quite common for games which get a lot of critical praise and a lot of attention from gamers to receive a reissue a year or so later which bundles in the DLC.
This may have cynical "money making, cash grabbing" (ooohhh scary capitalism!) incentives for the companies that release these versions, but regardless of that, these versions also provide a nice option for gamers who are coming to the title later in its life cycle. It's more appealing to get more value for your money, and the feeling of completeness that comes from a full GOTY edition. To pay the same or even less than the original base game cost, to get everything that has trickled out since in the form of DLC and updates. It's a very nice option a lot of people take advantage of, a "definitive edition" of major games, and I think it's a positive thing. You're certainly entitled to disagree.
Now, given when TLOU came out, I think it makes a lot of sense that it's GOTY version (though they aren't calling it that) would appear on the PS4 rather than the PS3. It has the added benefit of allowing some graphical improvements, and incentivizing people to get a PS4, and providing the option to play the game to PS4 owners who never had a PS3.
"2.It is more relevant on the Ps3 and it will be for years to come, without looking, I'm ASSuming there are more players on PS3."
Okay... and? People are still perfectly free to buy the game and play it on PS3. It's not like the Remaster contains new content that isn't on the PS3. So you can't make another argument you might be making if that were the case, about a cynical move to get people to buy a PS4 to play the additional single player portion, or whatever.
"3. They said the remastered the game PFFFFT!!!!!!! This is nothing more than Ps3 tech going to the Ps4. It's a money grab and they putt very little effort into this game."
I'm a lifelong gamer in my mid 30's and I've been with consoles and PC since the early 80's. I am a bit of a graphics guy on PC and know a fair amount about things like resolution, frame rate, anti-aliasing, texture resolution. etc. From *my* perspective, the graphical enhancements in the remaster are significant. They are what you'd expect to exist when you consider that TLOU came out so recently, so late into the PS3 life cycle, and took such advantage of the PS3's capabilities. The jump between PS3 and PS4 just isn't as dramatic as some previous generational jumps, and I think people are going to have to come to grips with more gradual, small improvements in the future. I think hardware and graphics are hitting a bit of a plateau.
To many of us PC gamer graphics afficianados, quadrupling texture detail, increasing resolution from 720p to 1080p, and increasing anti-alaising all WHILE doubling frame rate is a rather big deal. I've played both versions and I'm playing the Remaster currently, and to my eye it's impressive. Your mileage may vary.
"4. I said if you have the game already, I'll type slow evidently you don't comprehend very well, "Why would you buy it again? "You see there? I'm talking about people with a Ps3 that still have the game, NOT what your babbling about. Reading is one thing comprehending is another."
You also said "wasn't (improving the graphics) the whole point of putting it on the PS4?" in the context of you claiming that they had not improved them much at all. That was the aspect of your first comment I was responding to, and that is what I disagree with. I also disagree with the idea that that was the WHOLE POINT as you said, of putting it on PS4. I gave you some other reasons I thought were part of the point of putting it on PS4, namely gaining access to a new market (PS4 owners who didn't have PS3's)
"5. I asked a question and it's still valid, not the lunatic fanBOY rant you just gave me, try and stay on topic and read others post before spewing more ignorance."
Presumably, the point I was making and the aspect of your post I was responding to is now clearer to you. Let's hope so. As for me being a fanboy? Well, I'd dispute that. I'm more of a PC gamer than a console gamer in the first place, and when it comes to consoles I've enjoyed my original XBox and my 360 a great deal more, and spent a great deal more time (though still not that much compared to PC) on them than I have on all 4 PlayStations combined. Frankly, every single Sony generation I've found myself disappointed that there weren't more games that really got my attention. I love the Halo series and plan to buy an XBox One when the Master Chief Collection comes out. Certainly not a Naughty Dog fanboy, only game of theirs other than TLOU I've played is Crash Bandcioot 1 on PS1, and I wasn't all that impressed with it. Then again, I'm not much of a platformer guy.
TLOU was a rare exception for me, being a Playstation game I really fell in love with. It may be the first one, though Silent Hill 1 on the original PS may have fit that category too.
Look, ultimately I don't understand why people are griping about this Remaster release. It's an option available to those who want it, for whatever reason. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it who doesn't want to. They released it at $50 instead of $60, and they didn't even advertise it or show it off much. It doesn't feel like a super cynical cash grab to me, but you're entitled to that opinion if you want. To me it seems like a logical way to make the game available to a new audience, and relevant for longer.
"Peace, I hope you've learned something today."
Likewise. I'm not sure why you felt the need to be so combative and rude, but suit yourself.
@VegasDawg @dmblum1799 No, the point was to take a super well received game that came out at the tail end of PS3's life cycle and get it on a machine that will be relevant for years, making it available to people who never had a PS3, or who trade theirs in and still want to be able to re-play TLOU at some point.
As a fan of id FPS games since Wolfenstein 3D (which came out when I was 12 in 1992 and made a pretty significant impression on me as you'd imagine) and who was there for everything since... Doom 1 and 2, Quake 1 (still some of the most fun online play I've ever experienced) and Doom 3, I have to say I was always puzzled by fellow fans bashing on Doom 3.
I really liked Doom 3 a lot. I thought they did a great job with it. Very atmospheric, scary, and well polished.
Here's hoping Doom 4 is awesome. I'm open to it trying to return to faster, higher enemy count roots of the series or being more like Doom 4, or something in between.
@Sevenizz "You claim to own Sony's previous 3 consoles and admit there's been nothing memorable on them (minus a Crash game)."
Well, I wouldn't exactly call Crash Bandicoot "memorable" even though I remember it, if that make sense. I guess it was okay. Never really been much of a platformer guy. Oh but you know what I just remembered? There were a couple of games on PS1 I enjoyed which I hadn't really been thinking about. I liked Silent Hill 1 a lot, and Resident Evil 2 + 3 were pretty memorable for me, and I played them on there. I also had Symphony of the Night, because the original Castlevania 1-3 on NES were super important to me. Unfortunately SOTN got too JRPGish for me, and all of them since then have been too.
"You also claim it's important to own all relevant consoles. I question why you bought a PS4 (unless money or frivolity is just no issue for you)."
Yea, I suppose that's close to it. I mean, sometimes I just have money burning a hole in my pocket... I guess I felt like I wanted to get a PS4 because it was getting a lot of positive buzz, it was less expensive than the XBox One... I was sort of itching to buy something... I figured it was the right time to strike while I could still get a halfway decent trade in value for my PS3... in a strange way, my buying a PS4 instead of an XBox One when I did (recently, like a month or 2 ago) is actually a slap in Sony's face. Hard to imagine but let me explain... see, even though I had a lot of PS3 games I still hadn't played, I was nonetheless ready to move on from PS3. I felt I was probably never going to really get into the games I still had for it. So why not just trade it in, get the new one, and hope for the best in terms of games on PS4? Hopefully something eventually would really grab me... and Last of Us was coming out for it, so I would still be able to have the one Sony game I'd ever really loved.
Whereas, I wasn't really ready to take the 360 off my entertainment center yet. I felt I still had some gaming to do on it. I didn't want to see it go. I don't have room for more than 3 at a time, and even 3 is pushing it. So as I said, getting the PS4 is sort of a slap in the face to Sony and PS3 in a very weird, roundabout way, in my case... ha.
"I'm not a JRPG fan, and western Sony games just never grabbed me"
Same on both counts. If I could get into Final Fantasy and even MGS, I'd be in much better shape PlayStation wise.
"I'm happy you enjoy your PS4"
Eh, to be honest... I'm not sure I can really claim to be enjoying it yet. I hope to enjoy it in the future. I am playing TLOU Remaster, and that will certainly be enjoyable... but I'm just getting started on that. Mostly it's my blu-ray player, and that's mostly what my PS3 was. And frankly, despite owning over 200 blu-rays, I really don't watch them very often.
@Sevenizz I'm not a Sony or Naughty Dog fanboy at all. Yes, I've had a PS1, PS2, PS3 and now a PS4... but frankly, I probably clocked more hours on Halo 1, on the original XBox, than I did on all 4 PlayStation consoles I've owned combined. I've just never really had any games on any of the 4 PlayStations which really impressed me and became the sort of games you forever cherish and remember. At least, I didn't until The Last of Us. That was the first PlayStation game to REALLY grab me and make an impression.
As for Naughty Dog? My history with them was, I had Crash Bandicoot on PS1, the first game... or maybe I just borrowed it or rented it, I can't recall now. I think I only played a few hours... long time ago, hard to remember. It certainly wasn't a game I fell in love with. I hardly remembered it until I heard people saying Naughty Dog started out with that game. Next time I played anything from then was Last of Us. I ended up buying Uncharted 1 and 2 because of how much I loved Last of Us, but after playing both of them for a few hours, I just wasn't feeling it. Perhaps I should've given them more time, but I guess it's too late now because I traded in my PS3 and all the games for it to get the PS4.
Honestly, if I wanted to be, I could get pretty irritated at Sony. I've bought 4 consoles from them and have never truly gotten my money's worth out of a single one of them. I tend to blame myself more for that, though... but perhaps it's because they just never have games that are up my alley.
Really I'm more of a PC gamer, and have been since about 1989. I get the various consoles (I tend to have all of them each generation and have had since the N64 generation) because I can afford to, and because I don't want to be forced to miss a great game which comes out on one I don't have.
I'm actually really excited for Master Chief Collection, and Halo 5. Though, I have to admit I wasn't amazed by Halo 4. It was okay.
Halo 1 is most definitely in my top 10 games of all time. I still own my copy for the original XBox, I have most of the books, a few of the first batch of toys, and I have every single Halo game released even Halo Wars. I've kept them all, never traded them in.
Had a lot of fun on the original XBox, and I have the utmost respect for the 360. That thing was a real value-packed console, and I still play mine (GTA V) and don't have any plans to get rid of it like I did my PS3. I love the 360 controller so much, I think I own like 8 of them. Most will probably never get used again, and most I've gotten for either my PC or my gf's, etc. But some are for use on the console itself. Fantastic controller design. Glad it seems like the Xbox One has stuck with the same basic design.
I fully intend to get an Xbox One at some point, and it will probably be when the MCC comes out.
I guess I got the PS4 first because it seemed like it was the better value, more powerful with a better library (at this time) and cheaper (Kinect-less Xbox One wasn't out yet) etc. But again, I will have an Xbox One at some point.
I really have not kept up with the fanboy wars and I never will. I find games worth playing on every company's machine. Once I can pick up a Wii U for a bit cheaper, I have every intention of getting one. Right now in my entertainment center is a 360, a Wii, and a PS4. I've got a 3DS, and a DS. Never had any of the Vita or PSP stuff.
So the reason I'm defending TLOU Remaster isn't because I'm some Sony booster or fanboy or whatever it is you think I sound like. It's because I am a PC gamer who is intimately familiar with the details of graphical advancement and therefore able to appreciate how impressive the graphical fidelity leap that Remaster represents, actually is. I'm getting irritated with people bashing the Remaster for not being a significant enough upgrade, because to my mind that reveals an ignorance on their part. So I have allowed my irritation to turn into some attempts to educate.
I think TLOU is a fantastic game, a masterpiece, a 10/10. I'm really glad they made it available on the PS4, because that was part of why I felt I could safely trade in my PS3. If the Remaster hadn't been announced, I would have felt I needed to keep my PS3 so I could always have TLOU to play. I keep games I respect that much forever. Hence why I still have all the Halo games, and both XBox and 360 consoles. Halo 1 is also a clear 10/10 game in my mind. I'm not sure there have been any other 10/10 games in the series... perhaps. Probably more in the 9 zone for most of the others.
Anyway, sorry for the long winded rant... I just don't like being associated with these silly fanboy wars which I have never taken part in and never will. Think of me like a Forerunner :) I've been gaming on console and PC since the early 80's, and the petty wars between humanity and the Covenant do not even draw my notice :) Ha, just kidding.
But the point is, I can appreciate good game making no matter who does it or what platform it appears on.
@Sevenizz TLOU Remaster is primarily to make the game available to people who have a PS4 but didn't have a PS3.
It's taking a very well received, very successful game from the tail end of the PS3's life cycle and making sure it is available on the PS4.
Makes all the sense in the world, and the level of graphical improvement is actually quite significant. They doubled the frame rate, went from 720p to 1080p, and also improved both texture resolution and anti-aliasing. To do all of that (especially all of that WHILE increasing frame rate that much) is no small matter.
It's completely silly to compare taking a 2004 game from 2 console generations ago being remastered (complete with pre-rendered cutscenes) and try to compare that to a game from last year, on not only a system only 1 generation old... but a system which isn't nearly as different from its successor as the XBox was from the 360.
Get used to these sort of more nuanced graphical improvements from here on out, because we're reaching a bit of a plateau.
@cainetao11 @nazgoroth OF COURSE they made it for people who didn't play it on PS3. The XBox 360 was a massively popular console in the US and other western nations. There are hordes of gamers who had a 360 but didn't have a PS3. Massive, massive numbers.
Sony and Naughty Dog know that this console generation represented an opportunity to get some of those people to jump ship to Sony. They knew they had a console which was more powerful and selling better, getting lots of positive press, and which cost $100 less. PS4 was selling very well and they knew they were getting some 360 defectors. Many, many more were still there for the taking because most people haven't bought a PS4 or an Xbox One yet.
So how do they continue to get 360 owners to jump ship to Sony this generation when they do finally get around to getting a new console? Well, obviously the game library is the main key!
They knew that there were tons of people who had heard all the positive buzz about Last of Us, but were unable to play it because they had no PS3. These people would be interested to play it, but because it came out so late in the PS3's life cycle... how many 360 owners are going to buy a PS3 and TLOU when the PS4 is already out? How many are going to potentially buy a PS3 just for one game?
So, making this extremely well regarded and well reviewed game available to play on their new platform makes all the sense in the world. Releasing it as fast as possible makes all the sense in the world because the sooner it is available the sooner it can start being one of the reasons a person might get a PS4. Every day more people make the choice of PS4 or Xbox One for this generation, and every day this extremely well regarded game from the end of the main life cycle for the PS3 was NOT available on PS4, is a day when that could be a factor in someone choosing an Xbox instead.
The question is, why in the world would they NOT release this? Why NOT provide this incredibly well regarded game, with improved graphics (to the degree which makes sense given the situation) on their new platform?
Of course, Sony and Naughty Dog realize that some of their sales will be people who already owned and played the game on PS3. Obviously, they're more than happy to get those sales! But for you to say you honestly believe that targeting people who'd already paid for the game not that long ago... and had already played through it... is their primary strategy here? That is silly.
I think you overestimate how many super fans there are who would buy this when they already played the PS3 version. I think that's a far smaller number of people than you seem to believe. It isn't the kind of number who you'd base your whole marketing strategy on.
Their primary target group are people who didn't play it on PS3, and likely didn't have a PS3.
And what is the point of whining about this release in any way? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it!
@cainetao11 I'm not telling you to buy it. I think you should pick up a copy down the road if you get rid of your PS3 (as I did) and feel like playing through the single player again.
If you're happy with your PS3 version, more power to you.
They didn't put this out as a way to say to fans "buy this! at full price! immediately!" - this is for people who didn't have a PS3 and missed out on TLOU, or for people who are complete graphics fanatics, or for people who have gotten rid of their PS3.
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