I`ll put it in simple terms xbox 360 is better,cheaper and has better games.dbzultimate3134

It has better games( for now)

Its cheaper.

It is less powerful and this will become evident pretty soon.  The PS3 has the most potential regardless I dont see why you all continue to feed the troll.

[QUOTE="Billyhyw"]What exactly does it win over?  Half those games are on the PS3 . jazreal

Um Actually about 7 of those are coming so yea about half :)

I only needed to read your first paragraph to know that you dont know what you're talking about 360 isn't limited to 10mb for AA GPU related tasks have access to 522mb of ram 512mb in the system + 10mb of EDRAM PS3 can only use 256mb of ram while theoretically the RSX may have access to the 256mb of XDR this would cripple the performance..... and there's only actually 162mb of XDR that would EVER theoretically be available as the OS uses 94mbXboxUnderground

You do realize the memory used by the OS can still be used by games?  Go read what devs have posted at beyond3d.

[QUOTE="HarakoMeshi"]

This is my rant about the Xbox 360 GPU http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?cpage=2#comment_6047197 (in the comments section).  If someone knows some technical details that I don't about the 360 please let me know.  Based on the public information about the 360 Xenos GPU I have made my deductions.  I am an experienced developer in 3D graphics on consoles and I have tried to make my calculations accurate but I may have made a mistake if there is some mystery of 360 I do not understand.

---

The Xenos GPU has an unprecendented bandwidth to it's 10MB of EDRAM of 256MB/s. If I understand correctly this peak bandwidth is actually only available when dong 4xMSAA. The actual writing bandwidth from the GPU is 32GB/s. This number is then multiplied by 8 to account for 4XMSAA times 2 for read+write operations.

Now if we consider the size of a full picture at 720p resolution (1280x720) with 8 bytes per pixel (color + Z) it almost fills the 10MB edram (over 7MB). In order to render that same picture with 4xMSAA four times the memory is required (over 28MB). This is the dilemma for the Xenos. In order to render such HD picture with AA it must do it in sections - in this case 3 sections.

This slicing is where Xenos pays the price. The developer must jump through hoops to render their scenes multiple times (actually I believe the Xbox 360 APIs take care of some of the work), but all this rendering multiple times is not free. All the geometry processing is duplicated, all the GPU state changes & texture changes are duplicated and so on. The only parts that are not duplicated are the pixels. So this will eat into the Xenos' edge over the RSX. In fact if whole scenes must be rendered 3 times we find that the effectove Xenos triangle setup rate now becomes lower than the RSX.

So the answer is that most developers probably won't render full 720p with 4XAA on the 360. They may drop below 720p or they may drop the AA. 720p with 2XAA still requires 2 passes. A possible resolution achievable in one pass could be 1024x576 with 2xAA. Anything higher would require multiple passes.

Instantly we see that anything using 4XAA is overbooking the size of the EDRAM, while using anything less than 4XAA is underusing the EDRAM bandwidth. In fact the Xenos is not even equipped to render 480p with 4XAA in a single pass (requires 10.5MB). A slight design flaw there.

The RSX can address the full 512MB of the PS3 so it has no such issues with frame buffer size.

So you see there is a tradeoff with the 360 GPU. You can render true 720p at a rate perhaps comparable to the RSX or slower. Or you can render 720p without any AA, or 60% below 720p with only 2xAA - really fast. This is the contradiction of the Xenos' design: so much power but a limited space to use it in. For the Xenos design to have been perfectly suited to the 360, over 28MB of EDRAM would have been required.

Taking things in context, these days consumers complain if there is no AA. And also in context I think consumers would be a bit annoyed to find out that 360 games are not truly 720p. So, developers have little choice but to please consumers with HD and AA and sacrifice their Xenos performance to do slicing & dicing. With this in mind, do not expect the 360 to beat the PS3 in graphics terms unless the 360 game is actually well below 720p.

Just some food for thought, in order to render 1080p with 4X AA would require 7 passes on the Xenos, so even if the Xenos setup rate was 4 times faster than the RSX it would still be the underdog. While on the cover it seemed the Xenos would have been better at doing 1080p than the RSX, things are not what they appear when considering all factors.

Danthegamingman

Funny because they asked the HS dev if it wsa downgarded and he laughed there was now downgrade.  And the PS3 is simply a more powerful peace of hardware.

[QUOTE="Billyhyw"][QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="Billyhyw"]

[QUOTE="Resident_Fan_"]without graphics stills outselling xbox360 and ps3jg4xchamp

Errr no it hasnt yet outsold the 360 sorry.  And just like the Gamecube it will probalby fall flat on its face.  Name 5 AAA quality titles coming out this year for the Wii?  because i can only think of maybe 3. I can easily think of 5 posible AAA for the PS3 and 360. And the only reason the Wii is outselling anything is for 3 reasons.

1. Its extremley cheap

2.  There are millions of Nintedo fans and there gonna get it first.

3.  One of the best games the system will ever have( Zelda Tp) launched with it.

I would be vastly surpised if the Wii doesnt end up in 3rd place in the long run.  Not like it matters because its not costing Nintendo anything to make it but still.

The 3 AAA titles I was listing for the Wii were the first 3 you named because we have actually seen fottage of them. The rest of the Wii titltes you listed havent had anything shown on them at least I have something to look at to hype it.  You just hyped those games for the name.

Well let me give you an example.  You hype that RE game right because Capcom makes great games and RE is an outstanding franchize.  But given many of the gimmicy games in the Wii I wouldnt be surprised at all if it ends up like one of those horrible Gun Survivor games.  These are the kinds of things that concern me about the Wii.

[QUOTE="rocktimusprime"][QUOTE="nextgengaming18"][QUOTE="KAS3Y_JAM3Z"][QUOTE="nextgengaming18"]

Why are people hyping shadowrun and too human? Lost Odyssey isn't coming to america nor europe in 2007. Why do people add this?

nextgengaming18

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="rocktimusprime"] wasnt bioshock just street dated...and people are writing off too human too quickly because of footage from e3 that the dev has come out and said sucked, was rushed and in no way represents what the game looks like currently.rocktimusprime

gran turismo 1, 2, 3, 4, over 14 million divided by 4...rocktimusprime

No it wont.  It had bad camera angles and some clunky controls.  The visuals were nice and the Story seemed to be in place I think the game will be just fine. Regardless I think the PS3 overall has everybit as an impressive library as the 360 this year if not more as they have much more established franchizes.

[QUOTE="nextgengaming18"]

Why are people hyping shadowrun and too human? Lost Odyssey isn't coming to america nor europe in 2007. Why do people add this?

KAS3Y_JAM3Z

Too Human is too.  It is being developed by SK( they make nothing but good games) and has been in development for over a decade.