Cannot wait for first week sale numbers, this place will turn into a ghost town. Let's wait and see which group goes into hiding or makes up some bullshit.
Sony NOT confident in the PS5???
@tormentos: Provide a link that says thousands more will be tested from now to LAUNCH.
Cerny originally said; "Of the top 100 most-played titles on the PlayStation 4, he says, “we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch.”
Then followed a hoohah because that led folks to believe that only 100 would be ready by launch, so Sony tried to clarify.
They gave a very muddled clarification.
"We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5." followed by..
"preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch."
That's not "We will test thousands more before launch"
I'm not saying ps5 wont have 1000s of bc games ready at launch...I'm saying Sony haven't said that either, or they have not made things clear or not up for debate.
@Random_Matt: Kinda like the Digital Foundry threads after the X came out. That's just how things go.
@sealionact said:
@tormentos: Provide a link that says thousands more will be tested from now to LAUNCH.
Cerny originally said; "Of the top 100 most-played titles on the PlayStation 4, he says, “we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch.”
Then followed a hoohah because that led folks to believe that only 100 would be ready by launch, so Sony tried to clarify.
They gave a very muddled clarification.
"We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5." followed by..
"preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch."
That's not "We will test thousands more before launch"
I'm not saying ps5 wont have 1000s of bc games ready at launch...I'm saying Sony haven't said that either, or they have not made things clear or not up for debate.
We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.
In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. We will provide updates on backward compatibility, along with much more PS5 news, in the months ahead. Stay tuned!
https://blog.us.playstation.com/2020/03/18/unveiling-new-details-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/
Where did i say before launch?
@tormentos said:
@sealionact said:
@boxrekt: No they didnt clarify anything, apart from there will be bc with most ps4 games at some time. So we dont know how many will work at launch, and we dont know which games will it wont work.
Yes they did is not only 100 games,in fact Cerny claimed they already have tested hundreds of games,and that thounsends more will be tested from now to launch.
But in reality Cerny never claimed that there would only be 100 games at launch,that was ASSUMED by blind fanboys as always,just like many assumed no hardware raytracing simply because sony didn't stated so and MS did.
So already hundreds work and they will test thousands more as they move toward launch.
Now where the FU** does it say AFTER launch because you claim i assume something,but here you are assuming they will not be,they say they test thousands more as the move toward launch not after launch,if i were to take that as something i could take it as before launch much more than after because they say as we move toward launch not after WE LAUNCH.
Again this remind me of the pathetic assumption that the PS5 didn't have hardware raytracing when they confirm it before MS did.
@boxrekt: Can you elaborate?
@tormentos said:
Yeah i am sure that 17% GPU difference will be quite staggering.
Well according developers who have worked with both state that it is. Maybe that 9.2 TFLOPS rumor is more true than false. But, why should it matter its all about the games not power. ;)
Yes but i don't need to buy a series X machine to play xbox one games,and if you take into account that the series X will have the same games as the xbox one then is a no brainer to skip it for a few years until cheaper,after all paying $500 to play xbox one games is not a very smart move,as the X model and Pro showed already power alone will not be reason enought to move to a more expensive console.
Unlike previous generation this upcoming generation you will have more games accessible on both systems that take advantage of the system in some fashion in addition to games that are specifically designed for it (arguing to the contrary is to deny facts). With your logic, no one should buy launch consoles because you can play existing games on it. I guess no PS5 for you. :)
@phbz said:
@Random_Matt: Kinda like the Digital Foundry threads after the X came out. That's just how things go.
Kind of like DF threads after the PS4 came out,you know after 2 generations of lemmings hyping superior versions.
Now pretend it didn't happen you joined during the 360 era of superior multiplatforms.
Another PS5 thread accompanied by tormy & cash angry meltdowns lol.
@Pedro said:
@boxrekt: Can you elaborate?
@tormentos said:
Yeah i am sure that 17% GPU difference will be quite staggering.
Well according developers who have worked with both state that it is. Maybe that 9.2 TFLOPS rumor is more true than false. But, why should it matter its all about the games not power. ;)
Yes but i don't need to buy a series X machine to play xbox one games,and if you take into account that the series X will have the same games as the xbox one then is a no brainer to skip it for a few years until cheaper,after all paying $500 to play xbox one games is not a very smart move,as the X model and Pro showed already power alone will not be reason enought to move to a more expensive console.
Unlike previous generation this upcoming generation you will have more games accessible on both systems that take advantage of the system in some fashion in addition to games that are specifically designed for it (arguing to the contrary is to deny facts). With your logic, no one should buy launch consoles because you can play existing games on it. I guess no PS5 for you. :)
Please link those so call developers.
So sony lied and the PS5 drops to 9.,2TF..ok..
You do know that even if the PS5 dropped to 9.2TF the gap would still be smaller than this gen ones right? Gaps which many dimiss here as nothing since 2013,so i would not call a 30% gap staggering.
I don't need a series X to play xbox one games,neither does anyone and graphics is the main seller of this again if you can play all xbox series X on xbox one there is really no insentive other than graphics and we know how much that fail to sell xbox one X and Pro.
@getyeryayasout said:
@tormentos: Full BC is the standard I am holding them to. That their messaging has been muddled, is on them.
If PS5 has full BC it will be my first choice. At least as long as I can find a PS5 manufactured somewhere other than China. That's a whole different discussion though.
Oh please when you SHOW ME that you own 4000 ps4 games then i would care about your damage control and pathetic excuses to downplay the PS5.
After the shitty BC the xbox one and the xbox 360 had for years no lemming can come here and demand full BC from sony.
The xbox one isn't even Backward compatible and it doesn't play 360 games at all,you insert your game and MS download a digital version of the game you OWN not the same as running games from disc.
The fact that the PS5 will be compatible with 4000 games or more basically kill your argument,unless you show me you own every single damn PS5 game you basically are grasping.
@tormentos said:
@sealionact said:
@boxrekt: No they didnt clarify anything, apart from there will be bc with most ps4 games at some time. So we dont know how many will work at launch, and we dont know which games will it wont work.
Yes they did is not only 100 games,in fact Cerny claimed they already have tested hundreds of games,and that thounsends more will be tested from now to launch.
But in reality Cerny never claimed that there would only be 100 games at launch,that was ASSUMED by blind fanboys as always,just like many assumed no hardware raytracing simply because sony didn't stated so and MS did.
Loading Video...
At 28:15 you'll see exactly when he made the quote below.
Cerny DID claim this. He literally said DURING his presentation “We recently took a look at the top 100 PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5."
This wasn't assumed because it was SAID during the presentation by Cerny himself. It was when the presentation was over that fanboys of all sides who were interested in BC were criticizing Sony for this; questioning backwards compatibility and so forth. Sony had to then clarify 2 days later with
"We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5."
and
"We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch."
Sony should have just led with this originally instead of having to clarify 2 days later.
@getyeryayasout said:
@tormentos: When I see proof of PS5 being compatible with 4000 PS4 games, I'll be thrilled. Until then, I'll remain undecided.
Just because you lack standards doesn't mean the rest of us should as well.
I will buy whichever system suits me best.
That's the bottom line.
Keep the grasping lemming.
You already made your choice you are just fiding a way to justify it.😂
@dagubot said:
Loading Video...
At 28:15 you'll see exactly when he made the quote below.
Cerny DID claim this. He literally said DURING his presentation “We recently took a look at the top 100 PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5."
This wasn't assumed because it was SAID during the presentation by Cerny himself. It was when the presentation was over that fanboys of all sides who were interested in BC were criticizing Sony for this; questioning backwards compatibility and so forth. Sony had to then clarify 2 days later with
"We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5."
and
"We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch."
Sony should have just led with this originally instead of having to clarify 2 days later.
“We recently took a look at the top 100 PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5.
Now i what part he say only 100 titles will work,he look the top 100 games ranked by playtime,that doesn't mean in any way that every game outside of those 100 will not work you ASSUMED that.
He say we took a look at the top 100 and we are expectinge most of those to work he is only referring to the top 100 most played game,this goes to calm people about the most popular games working.
In no place it he say the rest will not work and you have to wait that was never imply that was ASSUMED.
@i_p_daily said:
Another PS5 thread accompanied by tormy & cash angry meltdowns lol.
So are you going to hype superior graphics or do your usual crying about anything playstation?
@tormentos said:
@getyeryayasout said:
@tormentos: When I see proof of PS5 being compatible with 4000 PS4 games, I'll be thrilled. Until then, I'll remain undecided.
Just because you lack standards doesn't mean the rest of us should as well.
I will buy whichever system suits me best.
That's the bottom line.
Keep the grasping lemming.
You already made your choice you are just fiding a way to justify it.😂
@dagubot said:
Loading Video...
At 28:15 you'll see exactly when he made the quote below.
Cerny DID claim this. He literally said DURING his presentation “We recently took a look at the top 100 PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5."
This wasn't assumed because it was SAID during the presentation by Cerny himself. It was when the presentation was over that fanboys of all sides who were interested in BC were criticizing Sony for this; questioning backwards compatibility and so forth. Sony had to then clarify 2 days later with
"We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5."
and
"We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch."
Sony should have just led with this originally instead of having to clarify 2 days later.
“We recently took a look at the top 100 PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5.
Now i what part he say only 100 titles will work,he look the top 100 games ranked by playtime,that doesn't mean in any way that every game outside of those 100 will not work you ASSUMED that.
He say we took a look at the top 100 and we are expectinge most of those to work he is only referring to the top 100 most played game,this goes to calm people about the most popular games working.
In no place it he say the rest will not work and you have to wait that was never imply that was ASSUMED.
@i_p_daily said:
Another PS5 thread accompanied by tormy & cash angry meltdowns lol.
So are you going to hype superior graphics or do your usual crying about anything playstation?
I never assumed it would only be 100 games or top 100 games or anything for that matter. I'm just stating the facts of how his presentation was laid out in regards to BC and how it was clarified 2 days later; that was the point of my comment because you said
"But in reality Cerny never claimed that there would only be 100 games at launch,that was ASSUMED by blind fanboys as always"
I am guessing they probably were planning the 9.2TF machine and did the variable overclocking to narrow the SeX performance lead on paper. My guess though regarding no physical machine shown might be because their planned cooling solution and/or casing wouldn't sustain that performance without causing performance issues and they still need to find a solution on that end. I didn't mind the dry technical focus but it didn't seem to reinvigorate the enthusiasm of their base. Sony will probably do a public reveal if/when they can do their normal thing and pack an auditorium with their hand picked industry cheerleaders screaming applaud for maximum effect, but right now social distancing has hindered that approach.
@tormentos said:
@i_p_daily said:
Another PS5 thread accompanied by tormy & cash angry meltdowns lol.
So are you going to hype superior graphics or do your usual crying about anything playstation?
You've got it all wrong like usual. I make fun of Sony and you cows cry about it, that's how it ALWAYS works lol.
Hopefully when the 9.2TF PS5 releases the price of the PS4 will be $50 allowing you to buy one for the first time :)
Have a nice day defending the PS5 tormy :)
@getyeryayasout said:
@tormentos: Suuuure. I'm the one that's already made their choice. Okay.
Yes you did and you don't have to justify it by any means.
Your BC argument is just silly unless you own all PS4 games.
@dagubot said:
I never assumed it would only be 100 games or top 100 games or anything for that matter. I'm just stating the facts of how his presentation was laid out in regards to BC and how it was clarified 2 days later; that was the point of my comment because you said
"But in reality Cerny never claimed that there would only be 100 games at launch,that was ASSUMED by blind fanboys as always"
Wath you quoted didn't claim only 100 games,nor claim the majority would not work.
He was simply referring to the top 100 most played games.
People also assumed they didn't have hardware based raytracing again,they never imply software it was ASSUMED because they didn't say so and MS did.
@lamprey263 said:
I am guessing they probably were planning the 9.2TF machine and did the variable overclocking to narrow the SeX performance lead on paper. My guess though regarding no physical machine shown might be because their planned cooling solution and/or casing wouldn't sustain that performance without causing performance issues and they still need to find a solution on that end. I didn't mind the dry technical focus but it didn't seem to reinvigorate the enthusiasm of their base. Sony will probably do a public reveal if/when they can do their normal thing and pack an auditorium with their hand picked industry cheerleaders screaming applaud for maximum effect, but right now social distancing has hindered that approach.
I don't think that is true the machine was been tested at 2.0ghz early on,in fact i didn't even believe that would be the speed let alone 2.23ghz you can't just rise clocks like that if your system can't take it,take the xbox one for example the OC MS did was minimal and the xbox one was huge and the original GPU counter part on PC from the xbox GPU runs at 1027mhz yet the xbox one even with 2CU disable can't hit that.
If the PS5 has that speed is because sony from early own decided on a smaller GPU with very fast clock speed.
@i_p_daily said:
You've got it all wrong like usual. I make fun of Sony and you cows cry about it, that's how it ALWAYS works lol.
Hopefully when the 9.2TF PS5 releases the price of the PS4 will be $50 allowing you to buy one for the first time :)
Have a nice day defending the PS5 tormy :)
See you came to hype the xbox power so you do care nice.😊
Something is iffy with PS5s BC. Why present it in such a manner? Why drone on about hardware based BC and try to sell everyone about an alternative BC method they are developing? If I have to look at some compatibility list before I put a disk in, it's incomplete BC period. I wasn't expecting legacy BC like a lot of other people but I expected complete PS4 BC out of the box...
@Ghost120x said:
Something is iffy with PS5s BC. Why present it in such a manner? Why drone on about hardware based BC and try to sell everyone about an alternative BC method they are developing? If I have to look at some compatibility list before I put a disk in, it's incomplete BC period. I wasn't expecting legacy BC like a lot of other people but I expected complete PS4 BC out of the box...
I think all games work in normal mode,i think that is boost mode what is causing the problem,the ps5 has a boost mode to improve frames and resolution.
@tormentos said:Please link those so call developers.
So sony lied and the PS5 drops to 9.,2TF..ok..
You do know that even if the PS5 dropped to 9.2TF the gap would still be smaller than this gen ones right? Gaps which many dimiss here as nothing since 2013,so i would not call a 30% gap staggering.
I don't need a series X to play xbox one games,neither does anyone and graphics is the main seller of this again if you can play all xbox series X on xbox one there is really no insentive other than graphics and we know how much that fail to sell xbox one X and Pro.
My original comment has a link the person who made the claim. He is a former Sony game designer for F1, Killzone 2 and Wipeout.
Nowhere in my comment stated that Sony lied. I stated that rumor MAYBE more true than false.
You may not call it staggering but the folks Chris (the former game designer for Sony) said developers found it to be staggering.
You say graphics is the main seller but base on the Sony's presentation its all about the SSD no? The people who buy launch consoles are the ones who want the newest and latest stuff. Comparing the launch of new consoles to midgen doesn't make much sense. The best version of Xbox games will be on the Series X taking advantage of features that cannot be found on the previous gen. We don't know what games third party developers would be making exclusively for next gen but only that Xbox Studio games would be available across their devices.
@tormentos said:
@i_p_daily said:
You've got it all wrong like usual. I make fun of Sony and you cows cry about it, that's how it ALWAYS works lol.
Hopefully when the 9.2TF PS5 releases the price of the PS4 will be $50 allowing you to buy one for the first time :)
Have a nice day defending the PS5 tormy :)
See you came to hype the xbox power so you do care nice.😊
No you muppet, i'm making fun of Sony's lack of POWER, I thought that was obvious, but then again I need to remind myself to whom i'm talking to lol.
Hey tormy, the next time you go to read my comments I suggest getting a grown up to explain it to you first before you respond :)
@tormentos said:
@Pedro said:
I’ve chatted to a few devs and they have confirmed the power difference is quite staggering. However they have said it doesn’t mean you can’t make good games on the PS5. These fanboys clearly don’t care about that and are massively rattled.
Credit
This maybe a source of concern and the reason for the silence on Sony's end.
Yeah i am sure that 17% GPU difference will be quite staggering.
Actually,
12.147 TF / 10.28 TF yields 18% difference
12.147 TF / 10.173 TF yields 19.4% difference. PS5 GPU has a 1 percent clock speed reduction.
------------
Targeting 60 Hz gameplay loop
PS5:
448 GB/s turns into 7.467 GB per 16ms frame budget potential
XSX:
336 GB/s turns into 5.60 GB per 16ms frame budget potential
560 GB/s turns into 9.33 GB per 16ms frame budget potential
from https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
"Memory performance is asymmetrical - it's not something we could have done with the PC," explains Andrew Goossen "10 gigabytes of physical memory [runs at] 560GB/s. We call this GPU optimal memory. Six gigabytes [runs at] 336GB/s. We call this standard memory. GPU optimal and standard offer identical performance for CPU audio and file IO. The only hardware component that sees a difference in the GPU." '
As long XSX doesn't give equal time between 5.6 GB and 9.33 GB memory segments, XSX has the advantage.
Scenario 1
10% of 16 ms for 5.6GB memory pool= 0.56 GB
90% of 16 ms for 9.33 GB memory pool = 8.397 GB
Frame total bandwidth budget: 8.957 GB
XSX has 20% per frame advantage over PS5
Scenario 2
5% of 16 ms for 5.6 GB memory pool= 0.28 GB
95% of 16 ms for 9.33 GB memory pool = 8.8635 GB
Frame total bandwidth budget: 9.1435 GB
XSX has 22.5% per frame advantage over PS5
Scenario 3
2% of 16 ms for 5.6 GB memory pool= 0.112 GB
98% of 16 ms for 9.33 GB memory pool = 9.1434 GB
Frame total bandwidth budget: 9.2554 GB
XSX has 24% per frame advantage over PS5
Assigning CPU and GPU memory bandwidth within 16 ms frame time
Scenario 1
Let CPU consumes 0.85 GB for 16 ms frame from 51 GB/s 128 DDR4-3200 PC config
PS5: 6.617 GB available to GPU per frame
XSX: 8.294 GB available to GPU per frame with 9.1435 GB
XSX has 25.3% memory advantage per frame advantage over PS5
Scenario 2
Let CPU consumes 0.710 GB for 16 ms frame from 42.656 GB/s 128 DDR4-2666 PC config
PS5: 6.757 GB available to GPU per frame
XSX: 8.434 GB available to GPU per frame with 9.1435 GB
XSX has 24.8% memory advantage per frame advantage over PS5
------------
CPU simulation frame, geometry I/O, texture fetch I/O, shaders, ROPS I/O has to be done within 16 ms frame time for 60 fps target and differences memory IO and GPU power have a cumulative impact on reducing render time.
This is why X1X can deliver more pixels over it's TFLOPS rating against PS4 Pro e.g. for RDR2, X1X's ~8M pixels vs PS4 Pro's ~4M pixels vs PS4's ~2M pixels.
Higher compute processing = less frame render time
Higher memory bandwidth = less frame render time
Higher memory bandwidth (pipe size) is dependent on higher compute processing, hence why XBO's higher bandwidth was nearly pointless due to CU bound issues.
@tormentos: Dude don't be a desperate fanboy 100% of the time. You were doing relatively well before Sony's reveal. I just agreed with what he said and gave an example on how it works both ways. Jebus, relax a little.
Just because the PS5 of nothing but a bunch of duct taped Gameboys you don't have to be do defensive.
@techhog89 said:
Pedro needs to get Phil Spencer's cock out of his mouth so we can understand what he's trying to say. :)
Oh no! Looks like I got someone triggered.
@i_p_daily: I dont remember you making fun of the xbone for having less power. And it was more expensive too.
The new gen differences are going to be way smaller and 3rd parties will preform better on ps5 unless you think an occasional 5fps jump is more impactful than instant asset loading.
And we all know that Sony is the graphics king when It comes to exclusives.
Just see a danish site had the ps5 listed as being £449. Obviously took it down but if it's true expect series x to be in they 549-599 price range.
Who in their right mind could blame'em? :P
atm. sony fany boys. think every word out of cerny mouth is 100% fact.
called out a recent post on reddit. with something cerny said.
i got down voted to hell. for saying i want another source other then him.....
hell am not even a xbox fan boy. i play games i like that are on what platform their on.
@Pedro said:
@boxrekt: Can you elaborate?
@tormentos said:
Yeah i am sure that 17% GPU difference will be quite staggering.
Well according developers who have worked with both state that it is. Maybe that 9.2 TFLOPS rumor is more true than false. But, why should it matter its all about the games not power. ;)
Yes but i don't need to buy a series X machine to play xbox one games,and if you take into account that the series X will have the same games as the xbox one then is a no brainer to skip it for a few years until cheaper,after all paying $500 to play xbox one games is not a very smart move,as the X model and Pro showed already power alone will not be reason enought to move to a more expensive console.
Unlike previous generation this upcoming generation you will have more games accessible on both systems that take advantage of the system in some fashion in addition to games that are specifically designed for it (arguing to the contrary is to deny facts). With your logic, no one should buy launch consoles because you can play existing games on it. I guess no PS5 for you. :)
We don't know X1X's full 56 CU RDNA 2 GPU's other details such as ROPS.
From https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482
Techpowerup speculated XSX GPU has 80 ROPS based on 320-bit bus scaling from the 256-bit bus with 64 ROPS link.
@tormentos said:
@sealionact said:
@boxrekt: No they didnt clarify anything, apart from there will be bc with most ps4 games at some time. So we dont know how many will work at launch, and we dont know which games will it wont work.
Yes they did is not only 100 games,in fact Cerny claimed they already have tested hundreds of games,and that thounsends more will be tested from now to launch.
But in reality Cerny never claimed that there would only be 100 games at launch,that was ASSUMED by blind fanboys as always,just like many assumed no hardware raytracing simply because sony didn't stated so and MS did.
but he did state it. he said he has seen ps5 titles already using raytracing. right in the deep dive video. fanboys must of missed it.
@gifford38 said:
but he did state it. he said he has seen ps5 titles already using raytracing. right in the deep dive video. fanboys must of missed it.
Yes but the first time they reveal everything last year and before MS did,they claimed raytracing,but did not say hardware raytracing,then come MS on E3 and claim Hardware raytracing and like ants when you drop something on then they started like crazy spewing that sony didn't have hardware based raytracing and that it was just for audio,other claimed it would use software raytracing.
It was epic until sony came out and claim that there was hardware for raytracing in the PS5 and even still some doubt it when i make a thread about it.
@ronvalencia said:
Actually,
12.147 TF / 10.28 TF yields 18% difference
12.147 TF / 10.173 TF yields 19.4% difference. PS5 GPU has a 1 percent clock speed reduction.
------------
This is the only bit of your drivel that i will quote.
17%,18% and 19% is the same SHIT.
Hell i will be generous and claim the xbox series X has 20% maybe that way you can stop making sush stupid correctings from 18% to 19% the xbox will not probably a damn frame more per second.
But in your endless quest to make the series X look much better you can't help your self i get it.
The xbox has extra bandwidth which is OK because it doesn't have 10TF it has 12TF so that mean that extra bandwith will be consumed by the extra resources,in this case better Raytracing or something else.
Bandwidth doesn't = power and you know it,bandwidth allow you to take advantage of the extra power you have,in this case if the series X had 12TF with just 448Gb/s that would be a problem because regardless of having the same bandwidth of the PS5 it would have more power but it would not be able to show it.
So stop taking as if bandwidth will count as something that will increase performance,it will not it will allow the extra power to be taken advantage of which is different.
@Pedro said:
My original comment has a link the person who made the claim. He is a former Sony game designer for F1, Killzone 2 and Wipeout.
Nowhere in my comment stated that Sony lied. I stated that rumor MAYBE more true than false.
You may not call it staggering but the folks Chris (the former game designer for Sony) said developers found it to be staggering.
You say graphics is the main seller but base on the Sony's presentation its all about the SSD no? The people who buy launch consoles are the ones who want the newest and latest stuff. Comparing the launch of new consoles to midgen doesn't make much sense. The best version of Xbox games will be on the Series X taking advantage of features that cannot be found on the previous gen. We don't know what games third party developers would be making exclusively for next gen but only that Xbox Studio games would be available across their devices.
Link please.
Even 30% would not be staggering,in fact Albert Panello when it was with MS threated the 40% gap in power as been nothing and even insinuated that games would be equal.
When you claim the rumor maybe more True than false that is what you are DOING because Cerny it self claimed the drops in frequenzy would be minimal.
Former is the key word on that part 17% on paper gap is not staggering now matter how you look at it.
The biggest seller on series X is graphics not SSD,yes and the best version of the xbox games were on the X model and almost no one cared.
You actually believe this silly notion that just because the xbox was screw up from the start that killed the xbox one X chances when in reality the PS4 Pro also byted the dust and sold like crap compare to the PS4 slim.
Most GPU on PC are not top of the line ones for a reason always the mid level or worse are the ones that sell best.
There isn't a scenario for the xbox as this one will be,unlike the xbox one on 2013,the series X has no exclusives,it means it shinny new Halo will also play on the xbox one and xbox one X,the xbox one X now is been sold like for $299 if you come at the end of this year with a $500 machine and no games to force you to move into that hardware what do you think it will happen?
Like it or not on 2013 The xbox one had.
Rise,Forza 5,Dead Rising 3,killer Instinct and several other games that you could not get elsewhere but on xbox one,thats not the case in 2020 that will hurt sales,probably on launch it would not be as notable as the early adopters will probably get one,but those who don't care were they play Halo as long as they play it will not probably end buying one,until the xbox one is leave behind.
@i_p_daily said:
No you muppet, i'm making fun of Sony's lack of POWER, I thought that was obvious, but then again I need to remind myself to whom i'm talking to lol.
Hey tormy, the next time you go to read my comments I suggest getting a grown up to explain it to you first before you respond :)
So you care about power.
Ok got it.
@phbz said:
@tormentos: Dude don't be a desperate fanboy 100% of the time. You were doing relatively well before Sony's reveal. I just agreed with what he said and gave an example on how it works both ways. Jebus, relax a little.
Just because the PS5 of nothing but a bunch of duct taped Gameboys you don't have to be do defensive.
Yeah and i am the desperate fanboy..😂
@ronvalencia said:
We don't know X1X's full 56 CU RDNA 2 GPU's other details such as ROPS.
From https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482
Techpowerup speculated XSX GPU has 80 ROPS based on 320-bit bus scaling from the 256-bit bus with 64 ROPS link.
80 ROP is a odd number for a 56CU GPU most likely it has 64.
But i don't see that been a problem either.
The xbox one had half the ROP of the PS4 and you defended it all gen.
@tormentos said:
@gifford38 said:
but he did state it. he said he has seen ps5 titles already using raytracing. right in the deep dive video. fanboys must of missed it.
Yes but the first time they reveal everything last year and before MS did,they claimed raytracing,but did not say hardware raytracing,then come MS on E3 and claim Hardware raytracing and like ants when you drop something on then they started like crazy spewing that sony didn't have hardware based raytracing and that it was just for audio,other claimed it would use software raytracing.
It was epic until sony came out and claim that there was hardware for raytracing in the PS5 and even still some doubt it when i make a thread about it.
@ronvalencia said:
Actually,
12.147 TF / 10.28 TF yields 18% difference
12.147 TF / 10.173 TF yields 19.4% difference. PS5 GPU has a 1 percent clock speed reduction.
------------
This is the only bit of your drivel that i will quote.
17%,18% and 19% is the same SHIT.
Hell i will be generous and claim the xbox series X has 20% maybe that way you can stop making sush stupid correctings from 18% to 19% the xbox will not probably a damn frame more per second.
But in your endless quest to make the series X look much better you can't help your self i get it.
The xbox has extra bandwidth which is OK because it doesn't have 10TF it has 12TF so that mean that extra bandwith will be consumed by the extra resources,in this case better Raytracing or something else.
Bandwidth doesn't = power and you know it,bandwidth allow you to take advantage of the extra power you have,in this case if the series X had 12TF with just 448Gb/s that would be a problem because regardless of having the same bandwidth of the PS5 it would have more power but it would not be able to show it.
So stop taking as if bandwidth will count as something that will increase performance,it will not it will allow the extra power to be taken advantage of which is different.
@Pedro said:
My original comment has a link the person who made the claim. He is a former Sony game designer for F1, Killzone 2 and Wipeout.
Nowhere in my comment stated that Sony lied. I stated that rumor MAYBE more true than false.
You may not call it staggering but the folks Chris (the former game designer for Sony) said developers found it to be staggering.
You say graphics is the main seller but base on the Sony's presentation its all about the SSD no? The people who buy launch consoles are the ones who want the newest and latest stuff. Comparing the launch of new consoles to midgen doesn't make much sense. The best version of Xbox games will be on the Series X taking advantage of features that cannot be found on the previous gen. We don't know what games third party developers would be making exclusively for next gen but only that Xbox Studio games would be available across their devices.
Link please.
Even 30% would not be staggering,in fact Albert Panello when it was with MS threated the 40% gap in power as been nothing and even insinuated that games would be equal.
When you claim the rumor maybe more True than false that is what you are DOING because Cerny it self claimed the drops in frequenzy would be minimal.
Former is the key word on that part 17% on paper gap is not staggering now matter how you look at it.
The biggest seller on series X is graphics not SSD,yes and the best version of the xbox games were on the X model and almost no one cared.
You actually believe this silly notion that just because the xbox was screw up from the start that killed the xbox one X chances when in reality the PS4 Pro also byted the dust and sold like crap compare to the PS4 slim.
Most GPU on PC are not top of the line ones for a reason always the mid level or worse are the ones that sell best.
There isn't a scenario for the xbox as this one will be,unlike the xbox one on 2013,the series X has no exclusives,it means it shinny new Halo will also play on the xbox one and xbox one X,the xbox one X now is been sold like for $299 if you come at the end of this year with a $500 machine and no games to force you to move into that hardware what do you think it will happen?
Like it or not on 2013 The xbox one had.
Rise,Forza 5,Dead Rising 3,killer Instinct and several other games that you could not get elsewhere but on xbox one,thats not the case in 2020 that will hurt sales,probably on launch it would not be as notable as the early adopters will probably get one,but those who don't care were they play Halo as long as they play it will not probably end buying one,until the xbox one is leave behind.
i read your post wrong. you was saying it did have raytracing sorry lol.
@tormentos said:
Link please.
Even 30% would not be staggering,in fact Albert Panello when it was with MS threated the 40% gap in power as been nothing and even insinuated that games would be equal.
When you claim the rumor maybe more True than false that is what you are DOING because Cerny it self claimed the drops in frequenzy would be minimal.
Former is the key word on that part 17% on paper gap is not staggering now matter how you look at it.
The biggest seller on series X is graphics not SSD,yes and the best version of the xbox games were on the X model and almost no one cared.
You actually believe this silly notion that just because the xbox was screw up from the start that killed the xbox one X chances when in reality the PS4 Pro also byted the dust and sold like crap compare to the PS4 slim.
Most GPU on PC are not top of the line ones for a reason always the mid level or worse are the ones that sell best.
There isn't a scenario for the xbox as this one will be,unlike the xbox one on 2013,the series X has no exclusives,it means it shinny new Halo will also play on the xbox one and xbox one X,the xbox one X now is been sold like for $299 if you come at the end of this year with a $500 machine and no games to force you to move into that hardware what do you think it will happen?
Like it or not on 2013 The xbox one had.
Rise,Forza 5,Dead Rising 3,killer Instinct and several other games that you could not get elsewhere but on xbox one,thats not the case in 2020 that will hurt sales,probably on launch it would not be as notable as the early adopters will probably get one,but those who don't care were they play Halo as long as they play it will not probably end buying one,until the xbox one is leave behind.
The link is in the original comment. Click on "Credit".
If the man says developers find the differences shocking then its shocking to those developers, you know the people who have hands on interaction with both hardware.
The selling point of both consoles have been the SSD. You are trying to claim that its just graphics for the Series X because it stronger than the PS5 but the SSD has always been part of the its marketing. Don't change the narrative because reality doesn't fit nicely with your agenda.
The Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro were NEVER made to outsell the base consoles. You and few others have been making this silly claim with absolutely no backing. Even before the One X was release it was stated
“We have two consoles in our line: Xbox One S, now for sale for $249 in the US, and Xbox One X, the most powerful console. And the majority of consoles we will sell next year will be the S. There’s no doubt about that,” he said.(Phil Spencer)
Credit
What do I think is going to happen? The same thing that always happen every console launch. Systems are sold out. The Switch launched with BOTW which was available on the WiiU and ran almost identical to the WiiU and it sold out. The Series X would be running games like Halo:Infinite the best on the Series X and may have the luxury of no load times in comparison to Xbox One. So, your point is lacking substance.
The people who buy new consoles are typically the enthusiasts. The average consumer will not being rushing out to buy the newer systems regardless of platform. I am not sure why you are digging so deep in supposed concern of the success of the Series X lack of exclusives. You are not bringing anything new to the table. The Xbox will not have exclusives from MS and has NOT for 3 years now and its NOT for the foreseeable future because of PC gaming. Why are we still discussing this as news?
@tormentos: It was a joke, there's obviously a Game Gear stuck in there also to provide colour.
@Pedro said:
@boxrekt said:
This event was meant to get DEVELOPERS excited and on board with how PS5's can and will advance development of next gen games and nothing more.
This is a fallacy that is repeated too many times on the forum and the Internet. Developers don't rely on GDC to get information about console development. These events happens behind closed doors under NDA and would not be happening this late as a first time exposure to the system's capabilities. The event was for consumers and tech sites not developers.
to be fear sony did not have that choice with the virus. no one is going behind closed doors right now in groups. plus not every developer has a dev kit yet. only the top developers do. i think they just made it for both consumers and developers in one video. yes it was a bad move because of all the hate i been seeing on u-tube and game sites. sony needs to have to show something great to bring back some gamers to sony.
@gifford38 said:
to be fear sony did not have that choice with the virus. no one is going behind closed doors right now in groups. plus not every developer has a dev kit yet. only the top developers do. i think they just made it for both consumers and developers in one video. yes it was a bad move because of all the hate i been seeing on u-tube and game sites. sony needs to have to show something great to bring back some gamers to sony.
There are other NDA communication channels for the lower end developers. That is why this claim of it being for developers is not true. All authorized PlayStation developers would have access to this information prior to Cerny's presentation with significantly more detail but all under NDA.
@madrocketeer: "Some consumers are indeed interested in tech, so why not promote it. Again, those that are not interested in the technical details and still stuck around long enough to complain have only themselves to blame"
The two take aways that fans are upset about is
1. Seems underpowered
2. Seems bc is limited to PS4 only.
@tormentos: 80 ROPs? , sometimes I love to have some of what techpowerup is smoking. Then again it's not surprising alot of techpowerup graphs are either outdated or wrong (with Nvidia flavors).
Was expecting some new info or at least insightful commentary :(
@PSP107 said:
@madrocketeer: "Some consumers are indeed interested in tech, so why not promote it. Again, those that are not interested in the technical details and still stuck around long enough to complain have only themselves to blame"
The two take aways that fans are upset about is
1. Seems underpowered
2. Seems bc is limited to PS4 only.
That's a separate issue. I was addressing the widespread claim that the presentation was "poor" and "boring," and that Mark Cerny didn't seem "enthusiastic." It was supposed to be a tech and detail-heavy presentation, one originally intended to be given at GDC.
Until we know the real-world performance of these machines, how big that power gap is just speculation and fanboying. On paper, there does seem to be a bit of a gap, but I don't think it will matter that much in the long run. Other factors will come into play, mainly the games.
As for backward compatibility, what I heard was that they tested the top 100 most-played PS4 games on the PS5, and they ran fine. As to be expected; since both are on AMD-built x86 platforms. Anyone who play old games on PC will tell you same architecture DOES NOT guarantee 100% compatibility, but the execution logic leap is far shorter than the one from PowerPC (PS3) or MIPS (PS2 and PS1) to x86. Those require a lot more work, such as XB1's limited library emulation-based solution for X360 games. It is therefore unrealistic to expect much more than PS4 BC at this stage.
@Uruz7laevatein:
For XSX, 80 ROPS speculation is based on 320 bit bus scale from 64 ROPS with 256 bit bus.
@Pedro said:
@gifford38 said:
to be fear sony did not have that choice with the virus. no one is going behind closed doors right now in groups. plus not every developer has a dev kit yet. only the top developers do. i think they just made it for both consumers and developers in one video. yes it was a bad move because of all the hate i been seeing on u-tube and game sites. sony needs to have to show something great to bring back some gamers to sony.
There are other NDA communication channels for the lower end developers. That is why this claim of it being for developers is not true. All authorized PlayStation developers would have access to this information prior to Cerny's presentation with significantly more detail but all under NDA.
Oh really?
PS4 Developers Didn't Know About the Console's 8GB GDDR5 RAM.
While February’s big PlayStation 4 coming out party prompted plenty of gasps around the globe, the sharpest intake of breath came when system architect Mark Cerny confirmed that the next generation system would ship with 8GB GDDR5 RAM. However, the revelation didn't just shake the media and fans alike – it also came as a complete surprise to large pockets of the development community, who had no idea how much memory the manufacturer was packing into the impending console.
"We were told [the PS4] was 4GB originally," Just Add Water’s CEO Stewart Gilray told VideoGamer.com. “We first knew it had 8GBs when Mark said at the event's stage, 'And it has 8GB of memory.' We'd had kits at that point for a good while."
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/04/ps4_developers_didnt_know_about_the_consoles_8gb_gddr5_ram
This consoles are moving targets until lock.
Even developers didn't know by the time sony unveil the PS4 that the machine was going to have 8GB of ram.
Aren't you a developer?
lol
Global design of the ps5 in the right bet in the right direction.
Gaming design of all industry leaders, Nvidia included going the same way.
The 15.46% difference with the xsx in raw power won't change that.
So why would sony doubts its console? No clear reason for that, unless you take SW's warriors for it.
Which of course is not the best bet.
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