No Man's Sky Angryjoe review 5/10

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navyguy21

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#101  Edited By navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17454 Posts

After playing the game i have to agree with him.

So much of the important stuff was removed that its like a different game than they were showing to the media.

Still fun and innovative game, but it gets repetitive pretty fast.

Hopefully they patch in all of the thing removed.

No one wouldve blamed them if this were a $20-30 game and they released paid DLC for it.

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AzatiS

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#102  Edited By AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts

@sts106mat said:

@AzatiS: hahaha i have never seen anyone agree with a review for a game they havent played. Hilarious.

What an hypocritical statement to say.

Its so pathetic actually because you know youve disliked or had an opinion ( if a video game its good or not or if you liked it or not ) on a game youve never played before yourself.

And here you are calling the fact that ive watched the game live numerous times in order to have an opinion , let alone my opinion ended up being on par with majority of reviewers way after mine hilarious !! Haha !

I dont need to play games i know something is off when ive seen more than 3-4 hours of footage already otherwise i wouldve been a proffessional reviewer myself.

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Wasdie

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#103  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

He's not wrong. The game is mediocre all around and a shell of what was promised.

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AzatiS

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#104  Edited By AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts

@sts106mat said:

@commander: even funnier the clown is in the king of fighters thread saying he needs to play this one despite the gamespot review

You comparing a game that ive seen multiple hours live prior of any review therefore i had an opinion about it and thats because NMS genre its based on exploration , gathering , etc , aka you getting a VERY deep picture of what to expect after multiple hours of in game gameplay videos VS a game that you cant have a proper idea how it plays since its ALL ABOUT ITS GAMEPLAY ? And im the clown ? hahahaha !

You little hypo , go play Wii U and cry me a river. How old are you really ? Next time quote properly at least what i said to King of Fighters thread.

And a tip for you : I never go by a single review or two. Only kiddos do.

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kweeni

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#105  Edited By kweeni
Member since 2007 • 11413 Posts

Damn, this game is missing more features than I thought. AJ's review seems pretty accurate from what I've seen in gameplay videos. A half finished game that has great potential but not much else.

Tbh I was pretty hyped for this game when it was first revealed. But as time went on and we learned more about this game, be it from interviews or new gameplay videos, it became clear to me that this game would flop. Literally all the devs ever did was run around and scan stuff. There was no depth to anything.

Looks like the space sim hype now rests on the shoulders of Star Citizen and Squadron 42, for me anyway. I'm confident the devs can and will deliver a quality game. Money, manpower, talent, passion, and a guy in change that knows what he's doing. It's all there. All they need is time.

Everspace looks cool too but I don't know too much about the game. I'll look into it some day.

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jg4xchamp

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#106  Edited By jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64040 Posts

@davillain- said:

Props to Joe for actually calling out everything removed from the game, you won't see any "official review" really hold HG accountable for that.

Because that's an atrocious way to review a game. At some point you are allowed to bitch about the marketing and all that jazz, but for a critique of a game you should be judging it on what is actually there. And judge the game on said merits, you can argue the game should have x, y, or z (Which to Joe's credit he usually does), but then you need to present why game would be improved by x,y, or z, or which fatal flaw said thing would solve. Joe's usually fine, if you like someone inarticulate and who likes doing gameplay per square inch product reviews. But said process also gives him a string of pointless soapbox rants that are just there for his fans to go "Finally, someone standing up to the man".

I'm all for shitting on a super shallow game that doesn't do anything particularly interesting, but I'm for picking on it for correct reasons. That type of thinking gave the impression "oh man if there was more of Destiny it would be a good game" and I stand by that being bullshit, Destiny had core gameplay issues that needed resolved as well. Not just it's lack of content.

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clone01

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#107 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29827 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:
@davillain- said:

Props to Joe for actually calling out everything removed from the game, you won't see any "official review" really hold HG accountable for that.

Because that's an atrocious way to review a game. At some point you are allowed to bitch about the marketing and all that jazz, but for a critique of a game you should be judging it on what is actually there. And judge the game on said merits, you can argue the game should have x, y, or z, but then you need to present why game would be improved by x,y, or z, or which fatal flaw said thing would solve. Joe's usually fine, if you like someone inarticulate and who likes doing gameplay per square inch product reviews. But said process also gives him a string of pointless soapbox rants that are just there for his fans to go "Finally, someone standing up to the man".

Pretty much. Give me dem hits. Daddy needs a new douchebag jacket.

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jg4xchamp

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#108 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64040 Posts

@Cloud_imperium said:

Squadron 42/Star Citizen and Everspace will save the day. It was always meant to be like that. Other games just tried to take advantage of SC's popularity and had no soul or passion behind them.

I don't think the game was lacking in soul or passion mate. It just comes across as a shit idea that's executed exactly as intended. It's just a shit idea.

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AzatiS

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#109  Edited By AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts

@kweeni said:

Damn, this game is missing more features than I thought. AJ's review seems pretty accurate from what I've seen in gameplay videos. A half finished game that has great potential but not much else.

Go fast buy it for 59.99$ so you can have an opinion because @sts106mat will get mad with you . How is possible to have an opinion by watching lengthy gameplay videos ? You must be a "clown" ( thats what he called me for having the same opinion as you ) lol.

I also questioned the game from gameplay videos ... In each and every video ive watched on twitch or social media in general , i always wondered " Looks ok , plays okish ... What is so great about it though to get such hype and praise ? " And the more i had that question in mind , the more videos i was watching.

I never felt otherwise and it seems that was the case with most reviewers in the end , including AngryJoe which imho.

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jg4xchamp

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#110 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64040 Posts
@Bread_or_Decide said:
@mirgamer said:

Yes they do, his vids and reviews regularly pulls half a mill to millions of viewers easily, depending on the title hes reviewing.

Hes hilarious asf, its just entertaining to watch his overdramatic antics but thats just the way he is. Hes my fav reviewer because of that(besides that he always articulate and explains his points and reasonings very very well), even though some of my favourite games he absolutely hated haha. He also usually take his time and don't rush his reviews like many others for the early bird clicks. He was criticised for that, lol. (a reviewer taking his time to properly, you know, review a game? What is the world coming to..)

You don't have to hate or be degrading to every person you disagree with, you know...

Joe's reviews take a long time because he does all those stupid skits. The downside is by the time his review is out it's too late, many have already purchased the game. His reviews are after thoughts, albeit entertaining after thoughts. I don't need a review three weeks after release, I need it the week of or the day before.

Given how well he does, or how others of his ilk (and frankly better at it) do, nah I think there is totally an audience that doesn't day 1 a game. Would rather see responses when the dust has a settled a bit, Joe's reviews are shitty on the pacing front, but he goes in a level of detail written reviews simply don't.

In the case of other channels, it's not as simple as product of review, the reviews are more reflective, more like video version of an editorial in the guise of a review.

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GarGx1

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#111 GarGx1
Member since 2011 • 10934 Posts

I'm wondering if they built the game on PC, with big, powerful CPU's and when they came to port it over to PS4 they ran into massive issues with the very limited CPU available and had to cut and cut and cut, just to get the game to run at all. Obviously after that they couldn't release a full version on PC and a limited version for PS4, it had to be pretty much the same on both systems.

Please don't take this as an attack on the PS4, it's not. I'm just trying to look at it realistically.

I wonder when the first law suits will pop up?

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kweeni

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#112  Edited By kweeni
Member since 2007 • 11413 Posts

@AzatiS said:
@kweeni said:

Damn, this game is missing more features than I thought. AJ's review seems pretty accurate from what I've seen in gameplay videos. A half finished game that has great potential but not much else.

Go fast buy it for 59.99$ so you can have an opinion because @sts106mat will get mad with you . How is possible to have an opinion by watching lengthy gameplay videos ? You must be a "clown" ( thats what he called me for having the same opinion as you ) lol.

I also questioned the game from gameplay videos ... In each and every video ive watched on twitch or social media in general , i always wondered " Looks ok , plays okish ... What is so great about it though to get such hype and praise ? " And the more i had that question in mind , the more videos i was watching.

I never felt otherwise and it seems that was the case with most reviewers in the end , including AngryJoe which imho.

I didn't read through the thread so idk what sts106mat said but I was never a fan of this "how do you know it's bad if you haven't played it???" argument. You don't need to play a game to know what it's like. With a combination gameplay, reviews, and the opinion of players you usually have all the info you need. But people get so defensive sometimes and resort to the worst strawman arguments and whatever else it's unreal. I'm not targetting anyone here, just saying in general lol.

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deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd

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#113  Edited By deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd
Member since 2012 • 12449 Posts

@GoldenElementXL said:

I'm not watching that. Everytime I watch one of his videos I regret it. NMS is so last week anyways. Who cares?

I also like how you claim the review is "accurate" because it fits your opinion.

its pretty bloody accurate, none of the points are really debatable as he attacks the many obvious flaws with the game, not subjective ones.

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mojito1988

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#114 mojito1988
Member since 2006 • 4726 Posts

I like the game. It is boring like me.

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R4gn4r0k

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#115 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46547 Posts

So much stuff was cut out of this game. Where are the sand planets and factions ?

Sean Murray is a bigger liar than Ubisoft.

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Cloud_imperium

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#116 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:
@Cloud_imperium said:

Squadron 42/Star Citizen and Everspace will save the day. It was always meant to be like that. Other games just tried to take advantage of SC's popularity and had no soul or passion behind them.

I don't think the game was lacking in soul or passion mate. It just comes across as a shit idea that's executed exactly as intended. It's just a shit idea.

The game had some cool ideas if you read their reddit page but if you are talking about procedural generation then yeah, I mean it can only take you that far. Sure, some minor use can enhance the experience but totally relying on it is always a bad idea.

As soon as I hear "full procedural generation" when devs are pitching their idea to the public, I am like "I'm out". I'll take small well crafted game/universe over big ass random procedural environments.

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Cloud_imperium

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#117  Edited By Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

@mojito1988 said:

I like the game. It is boring like me.

Lol.

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jg4xchamp

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#119 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64040 Posts

@Cloud_imperium said:
@jg4xchamp said:
@Cloud_imperium said:

Squadron 42/Star Citizen and Everspace will save the day. It was always meant to be like that. Other games just tried to take advantage of SC's popularity and had no soul or passion behind them.

I don't think the game was lacking in soul or passion mate. It just comes across as a shit idea that's executed exactly as intended. It's just a shit idea.

The game had some cool ideas if you read their reddit page but if you are talking about procedural generation then yeah, I mean it can only take you that far. Sure, some minor use can enhance the experience but totally relying on it is always a bad idea.

As soon as I hear "full procedural generation" when devs are pitching their idea to the public, I am like "I'm out". I'll take small well crafted game/universe over big ass random procedural environments.

I mean liek when you watch the game, can't speak too cleanly about how it plays, I could say where maybe improving game feel would make for some interesting stuff. But having discussed the game with a friend (who is playing it, and sort of likes it). It's main hook is that you get all of space to explore, and on paper that seems like the dream. But it ignores that well without some sort of narrative thread tying it all together why do even want to explore?

Like in games like Metroid you explore because it buffs up Samus/The game world is intoxicating in a way. In games like The Witcher you buy into the setting. I wanted to explore the area because beyond looking pretty, it was escapism at its finest. A convincing setting with people, and a set of rules, politics, monsters, etc that made it easy to buy into the setting. I want know what that question mark is. I found the um, there this lighthouse wraith thing right in skelliga, and I didn't actually talk to the initial dude to start the quest (or read the message board to put the question mark on my map). I just happened to be near that area, and because I saw a big patch of the island splitting out, and was like **** it I want to know what's there. I landed on a quest organically, and got to find a new twist on that wraith lore stuff.

Simple thing, not something the game can do often, but it's what ties the exploration together. In No Man's Sky the thing tying it together is mineral hunting, so you can go to another planet to do the mineral hunting again. And when the game starts running out of surprises it kills some of the exploration loop. You're not an explorer anymore (and to be fair there should be something limiting your exploring), you're just doing bitch work.

The procedural stuff is fine all things considered, it needed a more interesting structure, and some more hand crafted ideas bringing it all together. Otherwise it ends up a lot like what walking sims do. Maybe they tell a story, maybe it's even good, hell you might argue the graphics look nice and it had atmosphere, but it's unsatisfying on an interactive level, that it kind of takes a lot of the punch away. Which to why I think it's actually just a shit idea, I think they were very committed to this pure exploration thing, but then didn't realize they needed to give it something to tie in a stronger gameplay loop.

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Zaryia

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#120 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Ballroompirate said:
@foxhound_fox said:

People still care about AJ?

Just the trash on the internet.

And having actual animosity towards another human being because they review video games on youtube makes you quite a bit worse than trash.

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nepu7supastar7

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#122 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@silversix_:

The question is why should we value this Angry Joe's opinion?

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uninspiredcup

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#123  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59266 Posts
@GarGx1 said:
Please don't take this as an attack on the PS4, it's not. I'm just trying to look at it realistically.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#124 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26650 Posts

@silversix_ said:
@KungfuKitten said:

He screams too much for me. Does raise good points every time he reviews something.

i hate his screaming too, especially since he started streaming. thing is more annoying than anything else...

Yeah, the review was a bit annoying at times. Although, he did touch on everything, so it was a good review, overall.

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GarGx1

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#125 GarGx1
Member since 2011 • 10934 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@GarGx1 said:
Please don't take this as an attack on the PS4, it's not. I'm just trying to look at it realistically.

Nothing wrong with adding a little bit of politeness to system Wars, is there? Besides I'm not in the mood to argue with some of the more ravenous PlayStation fans, who would see my comment as an assault on Sony.

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GarGx1

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#126  Edited By GarGx1
Member since 2011 • 10934 Posts

@DragonfireXZ95 said:
@silversix_ said:
@KungfuKitten said:

He screams too much for me. Does raise good points every time he reviews something.

i hate his screaming too, especially since he started streaming. thing is more annoying than anything else...

Yeah, the review was a bit annoying at times. Although, he did touch on everything, so it was a good review, overall.

He's just playing up to the 'Angry' persona.

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Ballroompirate

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#127 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26695 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Ballroompirate said:
@foxhound_fox said:

People still care about AJ?

Just the trash on the internet.

And having actual animosity towards another human being because they review video games on youtube makes you quite a bit worse than trash.

AJ has shit reviews and tries so hard to be funny then he has his reviews days/weeks later than everyone else and pretty much says the same shit that the rest of the internet says. Then there's your comment, which proves my point, trash loves trash.

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Shewgenja

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#128 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

Had to reach the center of the galaxy before watching this..

Now, I'm wishing I had watched this before reaching the center of the galaxy.. I was much happier with this game following the Atlas. Eesh.. I've had fun with this game, but goddamnit, AJ is right.

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AzatiS

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#129  Edited By AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts

@sts106mat said:

@AzatiS: i never go by reviews. I also dont watch many videos of others playing a game. Ive been gaming long enough that i know if i will enjoy something just by readin a little about it.

I dont disagree that you can form an opinion about a game from watching videos and then decide if its something you will like or not....what i disagreed with is the fact that you "agreed with a review" despite having never experienced the game for yourself.

It'd be like me saying i agree with a reviewer on amazon for a guitar that i have heard being played on an record lol.....the experience being reviewed is someones thoughts having played the game.....not having watched someone else play it.. To agree with the reviewer i would need to experience playing the guitar myself....i cant tell how it feels just from watching someone lol

How far do you think you would get writing reviews on a website where all you do is write about watching others play the games?

Haha NOBODY would take you seriously because it is a stupid idea.

Moral of the story......think before you type

To have an opinion about if a game can be good or not from EXTENSIVE gameplay footage videos is a legit way not only to see if this game is for you but also decide if many of its aspects are good.

Thats ofc depends on the genre. You called me a clown by not going with Gamespots review and wanting to play myself King of Fighters. Even if i watch 100 videos of king of fighters i cant , literally , say what gameplay its all about since KOF is all about gameplay.

Now with NMS and many other similar genres is totally different story so someone can have an opinion over it from gameplay videos all over. So , before even a single review come to surface , i questioned the game over and over for the same reasons reviewers mentioned issues. Call it luck , call it circus , call it clownlike .. I dont care. It is what it is.

One of those guys that we end up having same opinion over most of the games hes reviewing is AngryJoe. What so bad about it to be so sensitive over it ? I dont get it.

So , take me seriously or not , my crystal ball once more on point , everything else is irrelevant.

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QuadKnight

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#130 QuadKnight
Member since 2015 • 12916 Posts

Meh, I'm enjoying the game for what it is.

I didn't go into this game expecting a Star Citizen experience, I already have Elite and Star Citizen for when I want to go super deep into space sims.

This game game was nothing more than a casual exploration game when I saw it in previews and that's exactly what I got. You guys that got disappointed either overhyped it or bought into the overhyping done by the media and Sean Murray himself. I never expected this game to have the production quality or attention to detail like Star Citizen.

It's a nice distraction for me inbetween super long sessions of Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous. The more space games the better I say. Next time Hello Games should do a better job communicating to their potential customers about what will make it into the game and what won't so that shit like this doesn't happen. Communication is key when it comes to game development.

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Zaryia

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#131  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Ballroompirate said:
@zaryia said:
@Ballroompirate said:
@foxhound_fox said:

People still care about AJ?

Just the trash on the internet.

And having actual animosity towards another human being because they review video games on youtube makes you quite a bit worse than trash.

AJ has shit reviews and tries so hard to be funny then he has his reviews days/weeks later than everyone else and pretty much says the same shit that the rest of the internet says. Then there's your comment, which proves my point, trash loves trash.

Watching shitty videos. >>>>>>>>>> Getting genuinely angry and having animosity towards people making/watching shitty videos.

You're far and away below the internet-trash you are describing. Just thought I'd like you to know that fact.

Edit: Wow I just noticed you seem to be upset at anyone bashing NMS. Braindead fanboys have no right to call anyone trash, ever.

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silversix_

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#132 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

@killered3 said:

@silversix_:

The question is why should we value this Angry Joe's opinion?

why would you value anyone's opinion for that matter? cuz its there, and you're the one who's choosing what's right and what isn't.

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silversix_

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#133  Edited By silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

@GarGx1 said:
@DragonfireXZ95 said:
@silversix_ said:
@KungfuKitten said:

He screams too much for me. Does raise good points every time he reviews something.

i hate his screaming too, especially since he started streaming. thing is more annoying than anything else...

Yeah, the review was a bit annoying at times. Although, he did touch on everything, so it was a good review, overall.

He's just playing up to the 'Angry' persona.

meh his angry persona is alright (look at his Xbone unveil video). his screaming persona that he constantly does for the show is dumb af.

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theReturnoftheG

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#134  Edited By theReturnoftheG
Member since 2013 • 89 Posts

@Ballroompirate said:
@zaryia said:
@Ballroompirate said:
@foxhound_fox said:

People still care about AJ?

Just the trash on the internet.

And having actual animosity towards another human being because they review video games on youtube makes you quite a bit worse than trash.

AJ has shit reviews and tries so hard to be funny then he has his reviews days/weeks later than everyone else and pretty much says the same shit that the rest of the internet says. Then there's your comment, which proves my point, trash loves trash.

Was there some kind of unwritten law to make reviews on the same day as the release date? lol

Anyone with an mgs5 avatar deserves to be hit with a bat but apparently you're an idiot as well, so bonus reasons.

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cainetao11

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#135 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38036 Posts
Loading Video...

This cracked me up

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blackace

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#136 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

@Wasdie said:

He's not wrong. The game is mediocre all around and a shell of what was promised.

True..very true. The fact that it took them so long to provide more details of what was in the game made me suspicious. Once they raised the price from $30 on the PS Store to a $60 full retail game, I knew something was up. I pulled my pre-order after that. Glad I did. I don't care for Angry Joe's Reviews normally, but he was pretty much on the money. Watching his games session crash 7 times on the PS4 should be enough to know this game was still in Beta and not complete. What a joke Sean is for all his lies.

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stereointegrity

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#137 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

agreed........i dont even know what to do with this game

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madsnakehhh

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#138 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18259 Posts

It was very hard for me to watch this...i just don't enjoy when people is called out like that and proving wrong in that way...with that being said, the review was on point, you just can't sell a game with so many...lies, and the videos where he says the game will have this feature and is just not true...man, that's just wrong.

And to think that i was hyped for the game...i mean it was hard to believe they could achieve everything the promised, but i thought that the game just wouldn't be that massive or something like that, but in the end it would be an enjoyable experience...instead they just cut features like if they meant nothing, pretty disappointed with No Man's Sky.

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Ballroompirate

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#139 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26695 Posts

@thereturnoftheg: Awww cute, trying to belittle someone cause of their avatar of a game you don't like, you must be on the same lvl of trash as AJ XDDDD

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#140 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7970 Posts

@stereointegrity said:

agreed........i dont even know what to do with this game

You mine for hours and hours and occasionally turn around from the rock your pointing at to look at the empty lifeless planet your on with some fly dog looking creatures shuffling around in the distance... Get it in your ship and sell your inventory then buy a new ship and travel to a new system and now spend even longer looking at your rock thanks to your inventory upgrades and bigger ship capacity.

No Mans Sky.

Tip from someone who has put 36 hours into the game... Don't bother "exploring" there is no reward in doing so. Just scan the horizon for golden boulders. Also ignore settlements they are a waste of time.

The game is trash.

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deactivated-5f26ed7cf0697

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#141 deactivated-5f26ed7cf0697
Member since 2002 • 7110 Posts

@silversix_:

Also for the record, 5Flopclub also received the same score. As did The Ordor 18flopity86.

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silversix_

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#142  Edited By silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

@VERTIGO47 said:

@silversix_:

Also for the record, 5Flopclub also received the same score. As did The Ordor 18flopity86.

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clone01

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#143  Edited By clone01
Member since 2003 • 29827 Posts

On topic, I did think this game would score higher across the board than it did. I would like to try it sometime, but I'll wait for a price drop.

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deactivated-583e460ca986b

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#144 deactivated-583e460ca986b
Member since 2004 • 7240 Posts

Again, Joe just echos what the internet has already said and feeds it back to his viewers. "Spot on review, I agree with almost everything." THATS BECAUSE YOU ALREADY SAID IT!!!!

Joes review was basically written for him here.



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DaVillain

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#147  Edited By DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56339 Posts

@cainetao11: Francis always cracks me up, he's one the few youtubers I enjoy his videos. I also like his Xbox One S Impression.

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DaVillain

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#149 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56339 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

Because that's an atrocious way to review a game. At some point you are allowed to bitch about the marketing and all that jazz, but for a critique of a game you should be judging it on what is actually there. And judge the game on said merits, you can argue the game should have x, y, or z (Which to Joe's credit he usually does), but then you need to present why game would be improved by x,y, or z, or which fatal flaw said thing would solve. Joe's usually fine, if you like someone inarticulate and who likes doing gameplay per square inch product reviews. But said process also gives him a string of pointless soapbox rants that are just there for his fans to go "Finally, someone standing up to the man".

I'm all for shitting on a super shallow game that doesn't do anything particularly interesting, but I'm for picking on it for correct reasons. That type of thinking gave the impression "oh man if there was more of Destiny it would be a good game" and I stand by that being bullshit, Destiny had core gameplay issues that needed resolved as well. Not just it's lack of content.

Going by that perspective, I agree.

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speedfog

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#150 speedfog
Member since 2009 • 4966 Posts

@foxhound_fox said:

People still care about AJ?

Only cows on System wars do. But I think they will hide now the hypocrites