Leaked (56 page) doc on future XBOX plans? Removed by MS lawyers

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reach3

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#51 reach3
Member since 2012 • 1600 Posts
So....can someone explain it to less tech-savy what this means? How does this tech compare to Xbox 360? Will it be able to run, say Crysis 2 Dx11 @1080p? And what are the odds this is real, I mean really? Microsoft wouldnt let this leak out.
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04dcarraher

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#52 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts
[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"] 1125 / 1575ShadowDeathX

30x is not too far off then, those cards sure do overclock well.

I bet I can overclock them more but Overdrive caps them at that. lol

Do the math Xenos 240 GFLOPS, 7970 , 3789 GFLOPS .... 3789/240= 15.7 , and thats not including the 12x the memory and 12x the memory bandwidth.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#53 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

How so? It is 4GB of United DDR4 RAM. 128 bit seems right for the kind of GPU they are putting in that machine. btw: The GPU is not high end.

It could be a Piledriver-based Hexa or Octa core APU.

64ALU based APUs don't get released until.....next year.

ShadowDeathX
360 has DDR3 at 512 bit. You would need super clock speeds to get 128 bit DDR4 to run as fast as lower clocked higher bit memory. Would be a major bandwidth bottle neck.
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#54 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="reach3"]So....can someone explain it to less tech-savy what this means? How does this tech compare to Xbox 360? Will it be able to run, say Crysis 2 Dx11 @1080p? And what are the odds this is real, I mean really? Microsoft wouldnt let this leak out.

Sixtimes more powerful than the Xbox 360. Kinect V2 will get it's own ARM processor. Standby processors will allow media playback at low power consumption. Xbox 360 PowerPC CPU inbox thus allowing full playback of Xbox 360 games. $299 price point. All the services that Microsoft has been talking about + MUCH MORE is all in the Xbox 720. x86 and ARM design allowing developers to easily port their apps and games from PC to Xbox 720 or vice versa and Windows Phone to Xbox 720 and vice versa. Full HD 1080p game playback and Full 3D experience. Blu-ray. 4GB of RAM. Next Gen UI. Windows part of package.
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04dcarraher

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#55 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts

[QUOTE="ForzaGearsFace"]

[QUOTE="ionusX"] this basically confirms that we wont see the next xbox till 2014 and that it will boast an amd kaveri apu likely with HCF with an hd 8670 mars. 4 gigs ram.. what is this a lightweight modern gaming mahcine or a joke?

ionusX

wow hd 8670??? where did u see that?

you read between the lines a bit and basically it would be their smartest move. omitting anyhting the hd 9000 series has to offer than wont be a rebadge. the hd 8670 mars should be roughly equal to a gts 450

Or aka 7750 which is suppose to be the kaveri apu's gpu performance range.
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#56 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]

How so? It is 4GB of United DDR4 RAM. 128 bit seems right for the kind of GPU they are putting in that machine. btw: The GPU is not high end.

It could be a Piledriver-based Hexa or Octa core APU.

64ALU based APUs don't get released until.....next year.

Truth_Hurts_U
360 has DDR3 at 512 bit. You would need super clock speeds to get 128 bit DDR4 to run as fast as lower clocked higher bit memory. Would be a major bandwidth bottle neck.

Do you know how DDR4 works? Maybe it can send more information per clock compared to DDR3.
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ShadowDeathX

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#57 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="reach3"]So....can someone explain it to less tech-savy what this means? How does this tech compare to Xbox 360? Will it be able to run, say Crysis 2 Dx11 @1080p? And what are the odds this is real, I mean really? Microsoft wouldnt let this leak out.

and yes, it might be able to run Crysis 2 in DX11 @ 1080p. Some major optimization will be required, but I don't see any issues of it not being able to play Crysis 2 DX11 on Highish @1080p.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#58 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"] Do you know how DDR4 works? Maybe it can send more information per clock compared to DDR3.

I know full well how RAM works. If you going to use a lower bit RAM then your going to have to push clock speeds way up to compinsate for the low bandwidth of the bridge. If it was GDDR5 @128 bit It would have been more believable. Since it's also video memory and not system memory.
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04dcarraher

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#59 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts
[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]

How so? It is 4GB of United DDR4 RAM. 128 bit seems right for the kind of GPU they are putting in that machine. btw: The GPU is not high end.

It could be a Piledriver-based Hexa or Octa core APU.

64ALU based APUs don't get released until.....next year.

Truth_Hurts_U
360 has DDR3 at 512 bit. You would need super clock speeds to get 128 bit DDR4 to run as fast as lower clocked higher bit memory. Would be a major bandwidth bottle neck.

360 does not have 512bit bus ..... its 128bit look at the bandwidth's 22 Gb/s average. 128 bit DDR5 can do to 72GB/s and that's at 1125mhz
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#60 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] 360 does not have 512bit bus ..... its 128bit look at the bandwidth's 22 Gb/s average. 128 bit DDR5 can do to 72GB/s and that's at 1125mhz

Your right it is 128 bit. But it's still low latency video memory and not higher latency standard system memory.
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ShadowDeathX

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#61 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
I also find it interesting that Microsoft will launch an Xbox cloud platform in 2015, similar to OnLive mini-console. Kinect Glasses seems like a cool concept. I'm liking all this information. Consoles won't be dumbed PCs. A new experience it will be. :)
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#62 Gue1
Member since 2004 • 12171 Posts

for $300 and what they expect to offer at that price it seems like the X720 will be an amazing next-gen console but Sony will blow the competition away with the PS4.

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04dcarraher

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#63 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts
Also on that site if you look further down they have the 720 set at holiday 2013, Also with a 120w TDP means it wont be a powerhouse , your looking at 3-4x the performance for processing power and 3-4x for gpu performance. Which means your looking at an equivalent of a modern quad core and a souped up AMD 6670 type of computer.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#64 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
Also on that site if you look further down they have the 720 set at holiday 2013, Also with a 120w TDP means it wont be a powerhouse , your looking at 3-4x the performance for processing power and 3-4x for gpu performance. Which means your looking at an equivalent of a modern quad core and a souped up AMD 6670 type of computer.04dcarraher
And the paper points to it being 6x-8x... Which also points to it being fake.
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04dcarraher

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#65 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23832 Posts
[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Also on that site if you look further down they have the 720 set at holiday 2013, Also with a 120w TDP means it wont be a powerhouse , your looking at 3-4x the performance for processing power and 3-4x for gpu performance. Which means your looking at an equivalent of a modern quad core and a souped up AMD 6670 type of computer.Truth_Hurts_U
And the paper points to it being 6x-8x... Which also points to it being fake.

How is 6-8x pointing to it being fake? on the chart its shows ~8 which means upto.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#66 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] How is 6-8x pointing to it being fake? on the chart its shows ~8 which means upto.

 Because the 120 watts is low. Real low. Must be using laptop esk parts. Don't see it being even 8x as powerful, 4 times yeah.
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Idontremember

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#67 Idontremember
Member since 2003 • 965 Posts

Usually I'm calling bull**** on these things, but there's just soooooooo much stuff and ALL of it seems logical and possible.

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Truth_Hurts_U

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#68 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
Laptops are about 4 years behind desktops. Use around 100 Watts of power. So 2013 - 4 = 2009 level HW which is around 6 times more powerful. God I really fear for the next Xbox. Laptop grade HW FTL.
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#69 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] How is 6-8x pointing to it being fake? on the chart its shows ~8 which means upto.

 Because the 120 watts is low. Real low. Must be using laptop esk parts. Don't see it being even 8x as powerful, 4 times yeah.

It is going to use the Kaveri APU. It pretty much confirmed. The GPU points to an 64ALU which is the Kaveri intergrated GCN GPU. Kaveri also allows the CPU and GPU to have full shared memory, which the powerpoint presents. Kaveri allows the GPU a frame buffer of.....you guessed it, 128-bit wide bus. Also shown on the powerpoint. Xbox 720 will use a Hex-core Kaveri APU.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#70 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"] It is going to use the Kaveri APU. It pretty much confirmed. The GPU points to an 64ALU which is the Kaveri intergrated GCN GPU. Kaveri also allows the CPU and GPU to have full shared memory, which the powerpoint presents. Kaveri allows the GPU a frame buffer of.....you guessed it, 128-bit wide bus. Also shown on the powerpoint. Xbox 720 will use a Hex-core Kaveri APU.

Gonna be a weak POS.
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Phazevariance

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#71 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts
[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Also on that site if you look further down they have the 720 set at holiday 2013, Also with a 120w TDP means it wont be a powerhouse , your looking at 3-4x the performance for processing power and 3-4x for gpu performance. Which means your looking at an equivalent of a modern quad core and a souped up AMD 6670 type of computer.Truth_Hurts_U
And the paper points to it being 6x-8x... Which also points to it being fake.

That and they would not make their console based on ARM tech, it doesn thave the sophystication for the power they need... yet.
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#72 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"] It is going to use the Kaveri APU. It pretty much confirmed. The GPU points to an 64ALU which is the Kaveri intergrated GCN GPU. Kaveri also allows the CPU and GPU to have full shared memory, which the powerpoint presents. Kaveri allows the GPU a frame buffer of.....you guessed it, 128-bit wide bus. Also shown on the powerpoint. Xbox 720 will use a Hex-core Kaveri APU.Truth_Hurts_U
Gonna be a weak POS.

Who cares if its going to weak compared to top of the line PCs. The Next Xbox will have a ton of new services and brand new gaming experience.

Kaveri + A Dual Core ARM Processoer = Win.

fullimage.php?image=40399

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#73 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Also on that site if you look further down they have the 720 set at holiday 2013, Also with a 120w TDP means it wont be a powerhouse , your looking at 3-4x the performance for processing power and 3-4x for gpu performance. Which means your looking at an equivalent of a modern quad core and a souped up AMD 6670 type of computer.Phazevariance
And the paper points to it being 6x-8x... Which also points to it being fake.

That and they would not make their console based on ARM tech, it doesn thave the sophystication for the power they need... yet.

It will with Kaveri. A high end Kaveri chip will be around that 6 to 7 times more powerful than the Xbox 360 Microsoft is looking for.
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#74 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

Who cares if its going to weak compared to top of the line PCs. The Next Xbox will have a ton of new services and brand new gaming experience.

Kaveri + A Dual Core ARM Processoer = Win.

ShadowDeathX
ARM and APU's suck. There tablet and ultra book HW.
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#75 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]

Who cares if its going to weak compared to top of the line PCs. The Next Xbox will have a ton of new services and brand new gaming experience.

Kaveri + A Dual Core ARM Processoer = Win.

Truth_Hurts_U

ARM and APU's suck. There tablet and ultra book HW.

What you want a console to have? The top of line hardware?

Ever since Nintendo has shown everyone that you don't need an uber powerful console to numba 1, you aren't going to get anymore uber powerful console.

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#76 gamecubepad
Member since 2003 • 7214 Posts

So it looks as though the 6670 rumors were true. Wonder if this means a APU+GPU crossfire is out of the question, and they've decided to go with just a APU? Sony is rumored to be going the APU+GPU crossfire route.

It's likely to be another HD Twin matchup with nearly identical specs.

Smart Glass, 2 Kinect Sensors:

20-3f2a9417e5.jpg

Reason the X3 won't have killer specs:

"Cloud Value Proposition 2015"

-Access to the Latest and Greatest;

-No New Hardware Required

41-e9bb38e705.jpg

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#77 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"] What you want a console to have? The top of line hardware?

Nope... Something modern. In a 250 Watt window. 8 Core IBM processor 3.2-3.6 GHz ( 6-8 MB Cache [360 compatable]), Custom souther island GPU (360 compatable), GDDR5 256bit 4GB.
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#78 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
From that architecture design, it is only going to be an Kaveri APU. It will have an ARM CPU and GPU, but I think that will be reserved for media and OS purposes.
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#79 PatchMaster
Member since 2003 • 6013 Posts

Sounds pretty legit. Durango in 2013 it is.

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reach3

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#80 reach3
Member since 2012 • 1600 Posts

So is everyone happy with these specs? Underwhelmed or better than you expected? 4gb ram is **** awesome

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#81 XenoNinja
Member since 2003 • 5380 Posts
No way could something like that be worth so little.
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#82 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts

So is everyone happy with these specs? Underwhelmed or better than you expected? 4gb ram is **** awesome

reach3
It is weak hardware compared to modern gaming PCs but more powerful than the Wii U. Price point seems similar as well though. I'm actually happy with it. All I want is 1080p native games and a new way to play. This will deliver that. I just don't want to keep paying for Xbox LIVE. =/
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reach3

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#83 reach3
Member since 2012 • 1600 Posts
No way could something like that be worth so little.XenoNinja
199$ up front and $15 a month for 2 years. This is the model both the 720 and ps4 are going to use, get used to it.
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#84 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

So is everyone happy with these specs? Underwhelmed or better than you expected? 4gb ram is **** awesome

reach3
Crap specs. 4GB RAM means nothing. Lucky to get 1080p games running at 30 FPS. Forget about 1080p 3D games. Then there going to shove kinect down your throat and still make money off every sale. I just hope Sony don't hold back and release a "true" next gen system.
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#85 gamecubepad
Member since 2003 • 7214 Posts

So is everyone happy with these specs? Underwhelmed or better than you expected? 4gb ram is **** awesome

reach3

4GB RAM is excellent. Was expecting APU+GPU crossfire, but this wouldn't surprise me.

Still thinking I'll be going PC+WiiU to start next-gen. Probaby pick up the "Full-HD Twins" a few years into the gen.

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#86 neo418
Member since 2003 • 586 Posts

[QUOTE="reach3"]

So is everyone happy with these specs? Underwhelmed or better than you expected? 4gb ram is **** awesome

Truth_Hurts_U

Crap specs. 4GB RAM means nothing. Lucky to get 1080p games running at 30 FPS. Forget about 1080p 3D games. Then there going to shove kinect down your throat and still make money off every sale. I just hope Sony don't hold back and release a "true" next gen system.

The very best a console could have is probably a 7870, you still won't get near top of the line pc

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#87 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

The very best a console could have is probably a 7870, you still won't get near top of the line pc

neo418
If the specs are true you can forget about the tech demos. Samaritan? Nope... Agni's Philosophy? Nope...
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#88 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="neo418"]

The very best a console could have is probably a 7870, you still won't get near top of the line pc

Truth_Hurts_U
If the specs are true you can forget about the tech demos. Samaritan? Nope... Agni's Philosophy? Nope...

That is why they said, those engines are scalable.
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#89 neo418
Member since 2003 • 586 Posts

[QUOTE="neo418"]

The very best a console could have is probably a 7870, you still won't get near top of the line pc

Truth_Hurts_U

If the specs are true you can forget about the tech demos. Samaritan? Nope... Agni's Philosophy? Nope...

Don't worry those will be next gen's equivalent to cysis this gen lol. Gaming pcs ftw

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#90 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

Don't worry those will be next gen's equivalent to cysis this gen lol. Gaming pcs ftw

neo418
Yep, screw consoles any more.
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#91 neo418
Member since 2003 • 586 Posts

[QUOTE="neo418"]

Don't worry those will be next gen's equivalent to cysis this gen lol. Gaming pcs ftw

Truth_Hurts_U

Yep, screw consoles any more.

I think this gen was THE gen to have a gaming pc, last gen you didn't see that many multiplat games that were xbox/ps2/pc, and most times when it went from console to pc last gen, it was a realy bad port.

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#92 famicommander
Member since 2008 • 8524 Posts
Holy hell you morons, that is fake as all hell. I said it on the first page and I'll say it again: ridiculously fake, ridiculously stupid. 1. It refers to the system as the "Xbox 720". That's a stupid internet name. Microsoft refers to the console internally as Durango. 2. There's no way all that power is being stuffed into a box with a 120 watt PSU. No. Way. 3. On the last page it says "What are our principles. Are we going to have Android or Microsoft. What do we want to do about application versioning. Case study for iOS, Android, Windows, Xbox, etc." 4. Microsoft still wants $299 for the 250 GB 360, and you really think a box with 4 GB of RAM is going to cost the same? 5. OEM licensing? Really? 6. It's got DisplayPort and PCIexpress. Come on. It's fake.
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#93 gamecubepad
Member since 2003 • 7214 Posts

Holy hell you morons, that is fake as all hell...Come on. It's fake.famicommander

Seems to hint at 6670-level power and also details Smart Glass and Win8/Phone/Xbox integration back in 2010. Shows pathway to cloud upgrades by 2015.

Even if it's fake, these are all happening in one form or another.

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#94 Slow_Show
Member since 2011 • 2018 Posts
Either fake or written by an employee who was promptly fired for incompetence after giving this presentation. ARM even being a consideration doesn't make sense, the high core count+low frequency doesn't make sense, hardware backwards compatibility doesn't make sense (ans sure as hell doesn't make sense in a $299 console), and lulz WiMAX. Plus what Famicommander said.
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#95 famicommander
Member since 2008 • 8524 Posts

[QUOTE="famicommander"]Holy hell you morons, that is fake as all hell...Come on. It's fake.gamecubepad

Seems to hint at 6670-level power and also details Smart Glass and Win8/Phone/Xbox integration back in 2010. Shows pathway to cloud upgrades by 2015.

Even if it's fake, these are all happening in one form or another.

1. If I'm making a fake document I can put whatever date I want on it. 2. A lot of the rest of it is insanely vague, and many of those things weren't too hard to predict in the first place. This is absolutely fake. Any of it that ends up similar to the real thing is completely by coincidence. Nothing to see here, move along.
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#96 loosingENDS
Member since 2011 • 11793 Posts

They will launch at 299$ with Kinect and plan a 10 year cycle ?

Xbox 360 costs 299$ with Kinect LOL

Maybe they meant a 10 month cycle

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gamecubepad

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#97 gamecubepad
Member since 2003 • 7214 Posts

1. If I'm making a fake document I can put whatever date I want on it. 2. A lot of the rest of it is insanely vague, and many of those things weren't too hard to predict in the first place. This is absolutely fake. Any of it that ends up similar to the real thing is completely by coincidence. Nothing to see here, move along.famicommander

So it's fake, but it's going to happen, but all by coincidence.

Fairly elaborate to be fake. Could be old prototype specs to present to shareholders, as opposed to nonsensical gibberish from a smart idiot with too much time trying to prove some point to fanboys that rumors can't be trusted.

The points I mentioned are happening. It's all about software and cross-platform integration for MS.

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neo418

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#98 neo418
Member since 2003 • 586 Posts

They will launch at 299$ with Kinect and plan a 10 year cycle ?

Xbox 360 costs 299$ with Kinect LOL

Maybe they meant a 10 month cycle

loosingENDS

$300 with breaking even or slight loss vs $300 at a profit

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famicommander

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#99 famicommander
Member since 2008 • 8524 Posts

[QUOTE="famicommander"]1. If I'm making a fake document I can put whatever date I want on it. 2. A lot of the rest of it is insanely vague, and many of those things weren't too hard to predict in the first place. This is absolutely fake. Any of it that ends up similar to the real thing is completely by coincidence. Nothing to see here, move along.gamecubepad

So it's fake, but it's going to happen, but all by coincidence.

Fairly elaborate to be fake. Could be old prototype specs to present to shareholders, as opposed to nonsensical gibberish from a smart idiot with too much time trying to prove some point to fanboys that rumors can't be trusted.

The points I mentioned are happening. It's all about software and cross-platform integration for MS.

No, it's absolutely not "old prototype specs", it's freaking totally fake. This is probably a college assignment of some sort. Just stop. It's absolutely fake.
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famicommander

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#100 famicommander
Member since 2008 • 8524 Posts

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

They will launch at 299$ with Kinect and plan a 10 year cycle ?

Xbox 360 costs 299$ with Kinect LOL

Maybe they meant a 10 month cycle

neo418

$300 with breaking even or slight loss vs $300 at a profit

They state in the document that they plan to maintain margin. Which also points to it being FAKE.