Dragon Quest doesn't play like Fire Emblem doesn't play like Secret of Mana doesn't play like Monster Hunter doesn't play like Persona doesn't play like Final Fantasy XV. Any attempt at trying to mechanically define "JRPG" as a distinct genre falls apart under logical scrutiny. It makes far more rational sense to refer to "JRPG" as an industry, rather than a distinct genre.
Never was much of a big fan of the genre but somewhat enjoyed some "old" JRPGs on the PS2 (namely FFX and FFXII, Persona 3 and 4). Nowadays I can hardly stand them. The dialogue is mostly atrocious with the japanese "aimed at teens" melodrama, the characters are cliche'd as fvck and the turn-based gameplay becomes a chore after only 5h, let alone the usual 100+ h these types of games usually demand
I hardly enjoyed Persona 5 and I dont know if its because of the game itself or just the fact I just dont like the genre anymore
Dragon Quest doesn't play like Fire Emblem doesn't play like Secret of Mana doesn't play like Monster Hunter doesn't play like Persona doesn't play like Final Fantasy XV. Any attempt at trying to mechanically define "JRPG" as a distinct genre falls apart under logical scrutiny. It makes far more rational sense to refer to "JRPG" as an industry, rather than a distinct genre.
No, they all have that template (outside Monster Hunter, which isn't a JRPG). They just put spins on it.
On one hand, I actually like the turn-based combat systems a lot -- I'm not a fast-twitch kind of guy, I actually like being able to calmly plan my moves and "manage" the fight instead of actually doing all the heavy lifting. It's kind of reminiscent of tabletop RPGs, which I think is pretty cool. That style of play is appealing to me. And the ones I've played have tended to have interesting stories, deeper than most Western "you're a dude with a sword... go kill some stuff" games*.
Even when I'm currently playing a JRPG (Tokyo Xanadu EX+), not much. I used to love them since FFVI on SNES up to Chrono Cross on PS. Nowadays I simply can't take the grinding for more than around a week, so JRPG is usually a genre I play oddly now and then.
Dragon Quest doesn't play like Fire Emblem doesn't play like Secret of Mana doesn't play like Monster Hunter doesn't play like Persona doesn't play like Final Fantasy XV. Any attempt at trying to mechanically define "JRPG" as a distinct genre falls apart under logical scrutiny. It makes far more rational sense to refer to "JRPG" as an industry, rather than a distinct genre.
There are also lots of Chinese and Korean games with gameplay similar to old and modern JRPGs what do we call them?
@texasgoldrush: Those other games don't follow Dragon Quest's template, except for maybe Persona to a certain extent. As for Monster Hunter, that falls into the open-world action RPG genre just like Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy XV. And if Monster Hunter, the best-selling RPG franchise in Japan for the last decade, isn't a "JRPG", then that makes the "JRPG" label itself pointless if it can't even reflect the kinds of Japanese RPGs popular in Japan, where Monster Hunter is essentially the poster-child of modern Japanese RPGs.
@NoodleFighter: In the music industry, it's well established that labels like J-pop, K-pop and C-pop refer to the Japanese, Korean and Chinese pop music industries, respectively. If there's a K-pop song that sounds similar to a J-pop song, that doesn't make it a J-pop song, but it's still K-pop regardless. Likewise for the movie industry, labels like Hollywood, Bollywood and Nollywood refer to the US, Indian and Nigerian movie industries, respectively, not distinct genres. And then there's anime and manga, which refer to the Japanese animation and comic industries, not distinct genres. Just like how J-pop, Hollywood and anime are industries, not distinct genres, the same goes for "JRPGs".
@texasgoldrush: Those other games don't follow Dragon Quest's template, except for maybe Persona to a certain extent. As for Monster Hunter, that falls into the open-world action RPG genre just like Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy XV. And if Monster Hunter, the best-selling RPG franchise in Japan for the last decade, isn't a "JRPG", then that makes the "JRPG" label itself pointless if it can't even reflect the kinds of Japanese RPGs popular in Japan, where Monster Hunter is essentially the poster-child of modern Japanese RPGs.
@NoodleFighter: In the music industry, it's well established that labels like J-pop, K-pop and C-pop refer to the Japanese, Korean and Chinese pop music industries, respectively. If there's a K-pop song that sounds similar to a J-pop song, that doesn't make it a J-pop song, but it's still K-pop regardless. Likewise for the movie industry, labels like Hollywood, Bollywood and Nollywood refer to the US, Indian and Nigerian movie industries, respectively, not distinct genres. And then there's anime and manga, which refer to the Japanese animation and comic industries, not distinct genres. Just like how J-pop, Hollywood and anime are industries, not distinct genres, the same goes for "JRPGs".
Secret of Mana definitely follows the Dragon Quest (or Wizardry) template, and so does FFXV to its extreme detriment. You can use the template for an action or strategy oriented RPG. The template is about its philosophy, not just how it plays. The template is hard to explain but easy to recognize, its emphasis on its number based combat system as the biggest gameplay element.
Child of Light, Secret of Evermore, and the two South Park RPGs (which the second game references its JRPG combat), games made in the west, also follow the JRPG template and Undertale skewers it. Games like Dragons Dogma, From Softs games, and Monster Hunter do not follow the template.
You know what else has numbers-based combat? D&D, the grandaddy of RPGs. That's an RPG-in-general thing, not a specifically JRPG thing.
If your argument is about the emphasis on the combat system as the central gameplay element, then the same goes for games like Dragon's Dogma, From Software games, and Monster Hunter, which follow the same combat-oriented philosophy emphasizing the combat system above all else, making them JRPGs according to your own logic.
And once again, Monster Hunter is the poster-child of modern JRPGs, and has been for the last decade. "Hunting RPGs" (i.e. Monster Hunter likes) have been the most popular sub-genre of JRPGs in Japan for a decade now (bigger than the likes of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy). The "JRPG" label should reflect the kinds of Japanese RPGs popular in Japan today, rather than sticking to outdated stereotypes from 20 years ago.
Most of them are really bad, so no. If there's a good one, I wont ignore it though. I really liked Tales of Symphonia for the GC. The story and characters were complete bullshit, as usual with JRPGs, but the gameplay was fun.
You know what else has numbers-based combat? D&D, the grandaddy of RPGs. That's an RPG-in-general thing, not a specifically JRPG thing.
If your argument is about the emphasis on the combat system as the central gameplay element, then the same goes for games like Dragon's Dogma, From Software games, and Monster Hunter, which follow the same combat-oriented philosophy emphasizing the combat system above all else, making them JRPGs according to your own logic.
And once again, Monster Hunter is the poster-child of modern JRPGs, and has been for the last decade. "Hunting RPGs" (i.e. Monster Hunter likes) have been the most popular sub-genre of JRPGs in Japan for a decade now (bigger than the likes of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy). The "JRPG" label should reflect the kinds of Japanese RPGs popular in Japan today, rather than sticking to outdated stereotypes from 20 years ago.
But Dragon's Dogma doesn't have the template for its combat system and also has role playing elements like a WRPG, and many quests have alternate and sneaky solutions. It basically is a Japanese take on a WRPG.
From Soft games are immersive sims, which run contrary to the template actually. And it takes a far different approach to its combat systems than the JRPG template.
And no it shouldn't. Monster hunter succeeds because it goes against the template, it should not be lumped in with games with the template.
Yes, I like some of them for sure. They generally have less player expression and roleplaying than Western roleplaying games, but also have many addicting qualities like forming collections of demons and creatures or fun RPS based combat systems.
No i dont. They are too childish, too girly and too animu and not a fan of turn based combat.
i mean look at this.
This is why i hate JRPG.
I agree. There is an extent where JRPG's are too childish, cutie, and kiddy characters wearing low cut costumes. That's where I would put my controller down, switch off the television, and return the game.
Take Xenoblade Chronicle 2 for instance, theres a noticeable difference between Xenoblade 1 and 2 character design. My reaction after watching Xenoblade Chronicles 2 trailer was... "WTF happened here?!".
I actually noticed that as well. I was looking into Xenoblade chronicles 1 because a friend was telling me give it a try. Then 2's trailers hit and I thought "this took a turn towards the toilet".
Secret of Mana is a multiplayer open-world action RPG, has a hack & slash combat system with a stamina meter, and has quests with alternate solutions. This is the same core action-RPG template as Dragon's Dogma, Soulsborne and Monster Hunter.
Secret of Mana is a multiplayer open-world action RPG, has a hack & slash combat system with a stamina meter, and has quests with alternate solutions. This is the same core action-RPG template as Dragon's Dogma, Soulsborne and Monster Hunter.
You aren't getting it.
While Secret of Mana has those things (and really only the beginning has a quest with alternate routes), its got that number game combat template that the Final Fantasy games have, but in a more action form. SoM is a huge example of an action RPG that fits the template.
Dragon's Dogma hides the numbers game like most WRPGs. Dragon's Dogma also has multiple solutions to quests and moral choices, as well as some immersive sim gameplay. Soulsborne is a full on immersive sim along with it being an action RPG. Monster Hunter has no intrinsic attributes which is a break from the RPG norm.
WHo doesn't? Ah yes, fans of 50 shades of grey and brown.
Nah just want whether I die in combat to be because of real time skill and strategizing on the fly like in a real fight. Not babyback bitch turn based weaboo shyte
@cainetao11: Do you like roleplaying games such as Ultima and Divinity?
I enjoyed playing some of Divinity on PS4 with Getyeryayasout but neither of us could get into it alone because of the combat. I admit i like the AP system better, allowing for using points to move to an enemies weak side. But as a whole I just fall into a coma playing these. Its against every fiber of my being to sit complicitly and wait for my opponent to have a turn at hitting me.
Not a fan of most JRPG's, feels like the stories are straight up written by 8 year olds. And everyone is dressed like Elton John. Complete and utter nonsense.
Oh and the "Hahaah, this isn't my final form" trope copied by every one 3 dozen times a game.
Not sure what there is to get. RPGs have always been a "numbers game", since the entire genre is defined by stats and attributes.
Secret of Mana's combat system has far more in common with Zelda than it does with FF. Also, Mana's combat is essentially a 2D ancestor of Souls' combat. Mana modified Zelda's combat by introducing a stamina gauge, which became the basis for the combat systems of King's Field and Souls.
Many JRPGs have multiple solutions and moral choices, e.g. the Megami Tensei franchise, SaGa series, the Drakengard/Nier franchise, etc. Also, JRPGs can have immersive sim gameplay. For example, Sweet Home.
No i dont. They are too childish, too girly and too animu and not a fan of turn based combat.
i mean look at this.
This is why i hate JRPG.
I agree. There is an extent where JRPG's are too childish, cutie, and kiddy characters wearing low cut costumes. That's where I would put my controller down, switch off the television, and return the game.
Take Xenoblade Chronicle 2 for instance, theres a noticeable difference between Xenoblade 1 and 2 character design. My reaction after watching Xenoblade Chronicles 2 trailer was... "WTF happened here?!".
I actually noticed that as well. I was looking into Xenoblade chronicles 1 because a friend was telling me give it a try. Then 2's trailers hit and I thought "this took a turn towards the toilet".
Xenoblade 1 is considered a masterpiece on the Wii. I played it myself and it's a game worth playing for any JRPG fan. I wouldn't say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a garbage game, the character design direction wasn't my cup of tea.
Just look at the art style of Xenoblade 1 and 2 (Ignore the middle character).
You know and I know what we make of the one on the right... *chuckles*. The transition is big
@omegamaster: Yeah my buddy from Ft Hood played it on Wii. He knows I have a Wiiu and said buy this dude trust me. So I was checking out vids and X2C vids popped up. I was like, why? The characters were fine in 1. LOL
No i dont. They are too childish, too girly and too animu and not a fan of turn based combat.
i mean look at this.
This is why i hate JRPG.
I agree. There is an extent where JRPG's are too childish, cutie, and kiddy characters wearing low cut costumes. That's where I would put my controller down, switch off the television, and return the game.
Take Xenoblade Chronicle 2 for instance, theres a noticeable difference between Xenoblade 1 and 2 character design. My reaction after watching Xenoblade Chronicles 2 trailer was... "WTF happened here?!".
I actually noticed that as well. I was looking into Xenoblade chronicles 1 because a friend was telling me give it a try. Then 2's trailers hit and I thought "this took a turn towards the toilet".
Xenoblade 1 is considered a masterpiece on the Wii. I played it myself and it's a game worth playing for any JRPG fan. I wouldn't say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a garbage game, the character design direction wasn't my cup of tea.
Just look at the art style of Xenoblade 1 and 2 (Ignore the middle character).
You know and I know what we make of the one on the right... *chuckles*. The transition is big
I'm ... kinda conflicted with this comparison.
On the one hand, Rex.... as a character design made no sense... too young looking, stupid god awful outfit until later in the game (where he actually looks *ok*) .... and the female characters are well... you know. Having google the character designs, they are designed by a former Hentai-Artist ... which explains it.
Buuuut ... I must say, I found the entire cast of Xeno Chronicles 1 bland both in character and actual graphics/design .... while Xeno 2's characters wern't great. the colourful anime-esque art style and the world as a whole were FAR better imo...
Xeno 1 looks like a friggin ugly rip-off of FF12's style...
Xenoblades 2's overall art style is actually really good..... and I do like that artist... shame about such a poor main character somehow being chosen as the final design...
@MBirdy88: Well you guys are probably more versed in this than I am. All I know is the one on the right is the more the style that makes me say forget that crap.
Not sure what there is to get. RPGs have always been a "numbers game", since the entire genre is defined by stats and attributes.
Secret of Mana's combat system has far more in common with Zelda than it does with FF. Also, Mana's combat is essentially a 2D ancestor of Souls' combat. Mana modified Zelda's combat by introducing a stamina gauge, which became the basis for the combat systems of King's Field and Souls.
Many JRPGs have multiple solutions and moral choices, e.g. the Megami Tensei franchise, SaGa series, the Drakengard/Nier franchise, etc. Also, JRPGs can have immersive sim gameplay. For example, Sweet Home.
However, JRPGs celebrate the numbers game and makes it flashy as possible. Western RPGs generally hide the numbers game except in the stats screen, while some go against it entirely. They also make combat a pillar of gameplay, not the whole foundation like JRPG template games do. Its a combo of both this celebration of the numbers game and gameplay focus on combat that makes this template. Its if Japan embraced Wizardry's system and built off it while the West moved mostly away from it.
However, Secret of Mana is still part of the numbers game template. Ultima Underworld has a stamina system too, and once again, there is plenty of evidence to suggest UU's influence in Kings Field and Shadow Tower.
However, the rate of these types of JRPGs have declined throughout the years, and while they do have more freedom. Sweet Home is really the only game with the JRPG template to really have immersive sim style gameplay, although it is far more limited to say Ultima VI, which was made in the mentality of one.
Come down to it, the JRPG is a template like the cRPG is a template. That's why Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, and Monster Hunter aren't JRPGs, because they do not follow the JRPG template, and DD has cRPG elements that are part of the foundation of their game. South Park, Child of Light, Secret of Evermore, and Undertale are western games that follow the JRPG template.,
Whether the interface shows or hides the damage numbers, that's not what defines the combat system. There have been countless J‑action-RPGs that don't show the numbers, from Hydlide and Ys to Alundra and Dragon's Valor. And again, the "JRPG template" you described applies to Monster Hunter, Soulsborne, and Dragon's Dogma, since they follow that same combat-oriented game design philosophy.
Some Mana games don't show damage numbers, like FF Adventure and Legend of Mana. Secret of Mana's combat has far more in common with Zelda and Souls than it does with DQ/FF. UU doesn't have a stamina gauge (separate from health and mana) like Mana and Souls do. Nor does UU, or most WRPGs, have things like an emphasis on hitboxes, or mechanics like active frames and i-frames, which are combat elements common among J-ARPGs, from Mana and Ys to Monster Hunter and Soulsborne.
In Japan, the DQ-like template has traditionally been called the "light RPG". This is just one of several major JRPG styles, along with action-RPGs and strategy-RPGs which have their own separate templates. There's no reason why the "JRPG" label should be exclusively limited to the DQ-like "light RPG" template.
The only one iv'e enjoyed (excluding YS) thus far is Phantasy's Star.
But that's of a tiny catalog of Final Fantasy 8 and Fantasy 7. Both of which had annoying characters and a barrage of cutscene after cutscene with simplistic press X to win gameplay or switching characters constantly to tell shitty story. What people see in these games is beyond me. Rubbish.
-
Phantasy Star has simplistic gameplay, but the player has to navigate 3D dungeons using a pen to jot directions down while being barraged with enemies, which turns it more into logical puzzle solving with player deprivation.
The NPC's rather than blather pish like FF, all give hints, sometimes in an obtuse manner that won't be useful until much later in the game. It rewards you for paying attention and expects you to use your head.
It's wasn't perfect though, you pretty much need to collect special armor or it's impossible to finish the game and a few secret walls have absolutely no indication requiring nothing but guess work.
But, for a game so old, it was super impressive and a joy to play when things got going.
No i dont. They are too childish, too girly and too animu and not a fan of turn based combat.
i mean look at this.
This is why i hate JRPG.
I agree. There is an extent where JRPG's are too childish, cutie, and kiddy characters wearing low cut costumes. That's where I would put my controller down, switch off the television, and return the game.
Take Xenoblade Chronicle 2 for instance, theres a noticeable difference between Xenoblade 1 and 2 character design. My reaction after watching Xenoblade Chronicles 2 trailer was... "WTF happened here?!".
I actually noticed that as well. I was looking into Xenoblade chronicles 1 because a friend was telling me give it a try. Then 2's trailers hit and I thought "this took a turn towards the toilet".
Xenoblade 1 is considered a masterpiece on the Wii. I played it myself and it's a game worth playing for any JRPG fan. I wouldn't say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a garbage game, the character design direction wasn't my cup of tea.
Just look at the art style of Xenoblade 1 and 2 (Ignore the middle character).
You know and I know what we make of the one on the right... *chuckles*. The transition is big
I'm ... kinda conflicted with this comparison.
On the one hand, Rex.... as a character design made no sense... too young looking, stupid god awful outfit until later in the game (where he actually looks *ok*) .... and the female characters are well... you know. Having google the character designs, they are designed by a former Hentai-Artist ... which explains it.
Buuuut ... I must say, I found the entire cast of Xeno Chronicles 1 bland both in character and actual graphics/design .... while Xeno 2's characters wern't great. the colourful anime-esque art style and the world as a whole were FAR better imo...
Xeno 1 looks like a friggin ugly rip-off of FF12's style...
Xenoblades 2's overall art style is actually really good..... and I do like that artist... shame about such a poor main character somehow being chosen as the final design...
Yes, Xenoblade 2 art style is great but bad taste for me. I do somewhat agree about the blandness of Xenoblade 1 graphics. Needs a HD remaster in the near future.
I like some of them, but I pretty much hate some of the characters with a passion and it is exacerbated by the modern age with bad voice acting. 8 year old girls with massive fans as weapons obnoxiously chirping every two minutes. Ghastly.
It's worse when these characters are sexualised which they sometimes are. A good JRPG can be a thing of beauty but a bad one is a crime against humanity.
WHo doesn't? Ah yes, fans of 50 shades of grey and brown.
Nah just want whether I die in combat to be because of real time skill and strategizing on the fly like in a real fight. Not babyback bitch turn based weaboo shyte
Whether the interface shows or hides the damage numbers, that's not what defines the combat system. There have been countless J‑action-RPGs that don't show the numbers, from Hydlide and Ys to Alundra and Dragon's Valor. And again, the "JRPG template" you described applies to Monster Hunter, Soulsborne, and Dragon's Dogma, since they follow that same combat-oriented game design philosophy.
Some Mana games don't show damage numbers, like FF Adventure and Legend of Mana. Secret of Mana's combat has far more in common with Zelda and Souls than it does with DQ/FF. UU doesn't have a stamina gauge (separate from health and mana) like Mana and Souls do. Nor does UU, or most WRPGs, have things like an emphasis on hitboxes, or mechanics like active frames and i-frames, which are combat elements common among J-ARPGs, from Mana and Ys to Monster Hunter and Soulsborne.
In Japan, the DQ-like template has traditionally been called the "light RPG". This is just one of several major JRPG styles, along with action-RPGs and strategy-RPGs which have their own separate templates. There's no reason why the "JRPG" label should be exclusively limited to the DQ-like "light RPG" template.
Early action RPGs made in Japan didn't have numbers game template but they now do, especially by the SNES era and definitely in the PSX era. Alundra didn't have numbers game, but the sequel did. Secret of Mana is simply put an action RPG that uses the JRPG template. And no, it doesn't have combat in common with Souls and Zelda. In fact, you cannot dodge magic or special attacks and neither can the enemy. Its basically a turned based action RPG hybrid.
Monster Hunter doesn't follow the JRPG template due to its huge focus on gear over stats and how it handles quests, Soulsborne doesn't follow the JRPG template because its an immersive sim, and Dragons Dogma is a Japanese made WRPG with immersive sim style gameplay to a point. Soulsborne is simply put J-ARPG combat in an Ultima Underworld/System Shock style game that its spiritual predecessors, King's Field and Shadow Tower were. Dragon's Dogma has quests that do not even revolve around combat but are actually cRPG style quests with choices.
And really the template should be called "RPG lite" or "not RPGs" because simply put, they do not grasp what RPGs can be. And really, their action RPGs and strategy RPGs fall into this template as well.
My biggest issues being they have horrible leveling systems. Too much grinding. Your characters have 300 HP/Do 50 Damage, while every monster has 100,000HP and does 5,000 damage. I hate garbage like that.
WHo doesn't? Ah yes, fans of 50 shades of grey and brown.
Nah just want whether I die in combat to be because of real time skill and strategizing on the fly like in a real fight. Not babyback bitch turn based weaboo shyte
Huh, so Xcom is a weeab game to you?
I believe I have clarified many times its the art style and turn based combat of some JRPGs that qualify them as weab games. You do yo thang tho
WHo doesn't? Ah yes, fans of 50 shades of grey and brown.
Nah just want whether I die in combat to be because of real time skill and strategizing on the fly like in a real fight. Not babyback bitch turn based weaboo shyte
Huh, so Xcom is a weeab game to you?
I believe I have clarified many times its the art style and turn based combat of some JRPGs that qualify them as weab games. You do yo thang tho
Some of them are OK, I liked Xenoblade 1 but never finished it, I did finish Xeno Chronicles X though. I also liked FFXV, decent game. Got Xenoblade 2 for the Switch, but I also want to play mah Xbone and PS4 so...
Log in to comment