Bethesda: Too Late for Nintendo and Wii U Third Party Support

Nintendo turned into a huge joke when the original Wii launched. They got lucky and the casuals ate their garbage motion controls and Nintendo didn't need third party developers for the type of consumer the Wii attracted. Unfortunately for Nintendo, they either didn't realize how unrelaible casual gamers are, or they honestly were arrogant enough to believe casual gamers who bought the Wii would go out and buy the Wii U.

Now you have an overpriced and underpowered system with no third party support and it is completely Nintendo's fault

Live by the casual. Die by the casual.

I hope diehard Nintendo fanboys realize that the Dreamcast has outsold the Wii U when comparing their respective time on the market. Wii U isn't coming back It's already locked into third place. Casuals abandoned Nintendo the moment they bought the original Wii It's just how that consumer base operates. It's a very unreliable base and you have to create a bigger gimmick every time you want them to buy your hardware. It's an unsustainable business model. Nintendo's hubris must have gotten the best of them with the Wii.

Nintendo does not care what third party develoeprs want. From a hardware perspective, the Wii U is a huge joke. Online infrastruture is still years behind XBL and PSN and third party developers want machines with decent hardware and an online infrastructure that doesn't look like it was developed in 2005.

Wii U = Gamecube 2.0 but even less third party support and it's going to be competing against the PS3/360 AND the PS4/Xbox One.

Goodnight my sweet prince.

[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="GD1551"]

I agree. Nintendo is too short sighted.

GD1551

The new wolfenstein, promoting it a bit since it's going unnoticed by most. Looks pretty awesome.

Shame on you for comparing the GC to this POS. MFDOOM1983

Just from a sales standpoint. The Gamecube was the last great Nintendo console for actual gamers.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Nintendo management needs a complete overhaul though I highly doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.foxhound_fox

Because, maybe, difficult as it may be to comprehend, making money is not the end all be all for someone who plays games, not tracks the price of shares as a baramoter of success? MirkoS77

Nintendo gets what it deserves. Jipset

Not missing muchMonsieurX

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Nintendo management needs a complete overhaul though I highly doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.foxhound_fox

God forbid someone expects more than the bare minimum from nintendo. Capitan_Kid

Has Bethesda ever shown even the slightest interest in making a game for a Nintendo platform?  This just seems out of nowhere.

Overall I think they're correct in what they're saying, I just have no idea why they're the ones saying it.

Honestly, I stand by what I said. There would be legitimacy in his statements, had it not been for a fact that this comes from a developer who never even had intentions of developing on Nintendo hardware (since SNES) in the first place. In fact, looking at Bethesda's history, their only NIntendo games have been dubbed some of the WORST games on their platform. They developed Home Alone for the NES as well as publish a shovelware racing title in Europe for Wii.

I don't have anything against Bethesda, in fact, I have reason to believe they are fans due to the easter eggs in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. But they have no room to talk about development on Nintendo hardware.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Because, maybe, difficult as it may be to comprehend, making money is not the end all be all for someone who plays games, not tracks the price of shares as a baramoter of success? foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Because, maybe, difficult as it may be to comprehend, making money is not the end all be all for someone who plays games, not tracks the price of shares as a baramoter of success? MirkoS77

Its SW, being pro-Nintendo on any subject will put you in the minority.

I agree. Nintendo is too short sighted.

GD1551

The following comes from Bethesda's Pete Hines...

The time for convincing publishers and developers to support Wii U has long past. The box is out. You have to do what Sony and Microsoft have been doing with us for a long time and it's not that every time we met with them we got all the answers we wanted. But they involved us very early on, and talking to folks like Bethesda and Gearbox, they say here's what were doing, here's what were planning, here's how we think it's going to work to hear what we thought from our tech guys and from an experience standpoint.

You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time upfront doing that. If you're just going sort off deciding were going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it. Well, no. No is my answer, I'm going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we're trying to do. So you've gotta spend more time trying to reach out to those folks before you even make the box, when you're still designing and thinking about how its going to work.Trail_Mix

 http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=211328

 

Whatcha you guys think?

Look around, I think it's you that is in the minority here.MirkoS77

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Look around, I think it's you that is in the minority here.foxhound_fox

Tessellation is that you?

He simply said that work on these games starts way before the console is released.
Duh.
It takes like 5 years to make a game, so of course the devs need to know ahead what they are dealing with.
And I'm not surprised that Nintendo didn't discuss with them what hardware they should use, because why would Bethesda know better what hardware Nintendo could need?

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Look around, I think it's you that is in the minority here.foxhound_fox

Nintendo "We design the hardware around us" 3rd party "Nintendo should of designed the hardware around us"

Is that the jist of the debate?dobzilian

[QUOTE="dobzilian"]Nintendo "We design the hardware around us" 3rd party "Nintendo should of designed the hardware around us"

Is that the jist of the debate?nintendoboy16

Not missing muchMonsieurX

pffft 3rd party games on the 360/PS3 gen were easily as good as ANYONES 1st part games. Yeah the Wii Us missing out bigtime.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

I agree. Nintendo is too short sighted.

lordreaven

New wolfenstein.

Nintendo "We design the hardware around us" 3rd party "Nintendo should of designed the hardware around us" Is that the jist of the debate?dobzilian

Yeah, but here's the problem. Nintendo don't make extensive use of ai and physics, so when they limit the console around their needs it makes it difficult for 3rd party devs.

Makes sense. Like Mark Cerny said, they asked developers what they would like way, way before deciding what the PS4 will be like. Getting feedback from many great developers with so much experience could help come up with a more suitable new console, powerful and not too hard to work with, to make developers happy with it.

From the sounds of it, Microsoft took the same approach. It's not just: this is what we want to do and we don't really care what you think. We know best and that's that. Now, go on and find ways to make the most of our wonderful new touchscreen controller.

[QUOTE="dobzilian"]Nintendo "We design the hardware around us" 3rd party "Nintendo should of designed the hardware around us" Is that the jist of the debate?HalcyonScarlet

Yeah, but here's the problem. Nintendo don't make extensive use of ai and physics, so when they limit the console around their needs it makes it difficult for 3rd party devs.

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

[QUOTE="dobzilian"]Nintendo "We design the hardware around us" 3rd party "Nintendo should of designed the hardware around us" Is that the jist of the debate?KungfuKitten

Yeah, but here's the problem. Nintendo don't make extensive use of ai and physics, so when they limit the console around their needs it makes it difficult for 3rd party devs.

say wat now :?

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

Yeah, but here's the problem. Nintendo don't make extensive use of ai and physics, so when they limit the console around their needs it makes it difficult for 3rd party devs.

HalcyonScarlet

say wat now :?

Every time this thread comes up Nintendo fans bitterly make out they've never enjoyed whatever the developer/ publisher put out and are "glad" they are giving Nintendo a wide berth. Well I'm sure Nintendo would appreciate Bethesdas support and I'm sure Nintendo fans would be singing a different tune were Bethesda on wii u. Like when Bethesda announced a game on wii and they were all excited Bethesda were bringing one of their heavy hitters, then they released a crappy racer and everyone did a 180 degree turn again. The list of developers not having anything to do with wii u is huge. Can't all be rubbish.DocSanchez

Of course they would, just like the PG. The love the third party games but then say "who buys a nintendo console for third party support", it's embarrassing really.

I like what Sony and MS for the next gen. They came to devs years ago and said what do you want. They gave devs the hardware and the tools and the online stucture and even the copy protection. They layed out the whole game plan for devs so that they would be comfortable making games before their platform even came to market.

Nintendo they make hardware for their 1st party and then they say any 3rd parties want to get down with this. It is like 3rd parties are an after thought. Nintendo tells the gamers what they don't need. Never is nintendo saying how can we add value to our platform like sony and ms.

Don't see how this differs. Nintendo has never had their support on any platform and has done fine.

I think it's too late for Elder Scrolls Online. No way anybody is paying an online fee in this day and age. (I'm certainly not)

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]God forbid someone expects more than the bare minimum from nintendo. foxhound_fox

He simply said that work on these games starts way before the console is released.
Duh.
It takes like 5 years to make a game, so of course the devs need to know ahead what they are dealing with.
And I'm not surprised that Nintendo didn't discuss with them what hardware they should use, because why would Bethesda know better what hardware Nintendo could need?

KungfuKitten

I just noticed that was essentially what he said. Suppose I should read the actual quote next time. :(

But, yea...people just twist words.

Don't see how this differs. Nintendo has never had their support on any platform and has done fine.

I think it's too late for Elder Scrolls Online. No way anybody is paying an online fee in this day and age. (I'm certainly not)

Puckhog04

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Don't see how this differs. Nintendo has never had their support on any platform and has done fine.

I think it's too late for Elder Scrolls Online. No way anybody is paying an online fee in this day and age. (I'm certainly not)

DocSanchez

THIS ^^^^^ :lol:

Nintendo was gaming onthe nes/snes. Then they lost major market share with the n64 and the insane game prices. Then they lost even more with the game cube. Then with the wii they said  screw hardware we are going with a gimmick and merketing. Nintendo got luck with the motion and wii sports. Now nintendo again has weak hardware with a gimmick but the price is more than current gen consoles and the casuals moved on. It was only a matter of time before the market went to where the games are and nintendo fans grew up and moved on.

The market has changed and nintendo has not.

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"] I don't see the problem :P
Screw them. Let's say the Wii U would have been a dream to program for. To design for. They weren't going to do that anyway. You're not going to limit yourself to one new platform. Nope. They would release it on all platforms or all platforms except Nintendo's. It wouldn't make much of a difference because which version do you think gamers would buy? A Wii U version that wasn't their lead platform? Nope. For the gamers that would have done nothing. For Nintendo that would have only complicated things and given them more bad rep and more costs to put in things that they don't need. So screw them.

KungfuKitten

say wat now :?

But it's all about that user base.

The benefits to 3rd parties are there, they get an extra piece of the market for sales.

The benefits to Nintendo are they get access to fans of 3rd party games and they get to introduce them to their own games.

The common phrase here in system wars is 'you buy a Nintendo platform for Nintendo games'. But that only goes so far. Take me for example, I want to go for a platform which has a big access to multiplats or 3rd party games, I like exclusives, but they're the icing on the cake and I don't buy many platforms. Not because I can't I just don't have time.

I don't want to buy a system for any one companies exclusives. It's just not enough.

The Wii U needed a more capable CPU imo, which is what I was referring to in my original post (that you quoted). They need a capable online infrastructure, which I admit is very difficult. It is MSs forte, it took Sony a gen to catch up and Nintendo seem to be crawling it's way up there. And finally they do need those multiplats.

If Nintendo's Wii U had access to all the 360s multiplats, then i'd consider them, because i'd get the 3rd parties and Nintendo's 1st parties.

If Nintendo say 'eff em', they're essentially saying that to gamers like me.

And if Nintendo asked developers from the start what they would like, it may have affected some key decisions on the console or in the process which would have benefited Nintendo in the area.

It's definitely true. I won't deny that. At least for western developers. I do feel like Nintendo still has a chance with Japanese developers given that they've been making deals with Sega, Atlus, and Platinum already as well as support from Capcom in the form of Monster Hunter

Sales numbers, is this the best you can manage aside from your continual personal insinuations, which you always end up resorting to in every debate you partake in? Get new material, this is always your same old tired act again and again. As you're so keen on sales, mind citing Wii U numbers while you're at it? I can't disagree with you actually, 160k worldwide sales over three months DON'T represent the majority. :lol: But I hear TW 101 sold 5k in Japan.....good to know. :lol:MirkoS77

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]God forbid someone expects more than the bare minimum from nintendo. foxhound_fox

It's definitely true. I won't deny that. At least for western developers. I do feel like Nintendo still has a chance with Japanese developers given that they've been making deals with Sega, Atlus, and Platinum already as well as support from Capcom in the form of Monster Hunter

Pikminmaniac

Nintendo was gaming onthe nes/snes. no-scope-AK47

Because two third party exclusives is all a console needs.Capitan_Kid

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]Because two third party exclusives is all a console needs.foxhound_fox

I am sure Nintendo is dying to buy a company that makes software that nobody buys.  

Platinum wants Nintendo to buy them so they can continue to make games that nobody buys.  

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]Nintendo was gaming onthe nes/snes. foxhound_fox

Sure they have as have sony and ms but they aslo have better hardware and 3rd party support and online gaming and multi media support ect ect. In other words nintendo platforms are a poor value vs other consoles on the market.