Protests about Islamophobia in Western Countries

How is it NOT under threat? Are you honestly arguing that the world now isn't dominated by western (i.e. Judeo Christian) culture? Or that the west doesn't have a history of political espionages and military actions in predominate Muslim countries? How many Muslim civilians died as results of those meddling compare to western civilians killed in Islamic terrorist attacks? It isn't about what we judge or they deserve the right, it's about perceptions and the religion base. I guarantee if you look at statistics on peoples religion and wealth, those in the Judeo-Christian faith will undoubtedly top the list while those of the Muslim faith will be somewhere near if not at the bottom. No one can reasonably say that those in Muslim countries can't see themselves in a desperate situation. Again it's not about religion as much as the miserable circumstance in which most of the people in that region find themselves in and the extreme measure in which they've been resorting to (or have been manipulated in doing by the few with agendas).

If you want to talk about just statistics, then black and latino males are committing disproportional amount of violent crimes, by your logic black and latino males are simply predisposed to criminal behaviors or violence. But that's not true, they are product of their environment (one which disadvantages black and latino) and same could be said of Muslims in that

No one who studies religious text can claim Islam has a sole rightful claim on peace advocate. There's nothing in the Quran that explicitly forbidden depiction of Mohammed so any call for violent response is primarily driven by politics of the individuals rather than something inherent to the religion. That would be like someone judging the entire Christian faith based on words and action of Trump or any American evangelicals.

@bmanva: Those military actions within the Middle East are based around politics and economical reasons, not religious mandate.. This isn't condoning it, because I have condemned the US government (regardless of the party in power) of doing it.. Ok lets say Trump or a evangelical in the US represents all of Christians, are they throwing acid on women's faces? Are they throwing gays off roof tops? Are the countries they inhabit literal rape cultures compared to the Middle Eastern nations? Even loons like Pat Robertson (who I despise) hasn't done or supported the kind of shit large Islamic groups in the Middle East have done..

Are you aware for instance with the Refugee crisis they have to put homosexuals in separate camps for their protection from being assaulted and murdered by other refugees?

Than we have the outright lunacy of things like the women's march in which one of the lead organizers was some one who SUPPORtS Sharia law..

Not to mention the west's involvements were not limited to the middle east but other parts of third world as well. No, that's not my point. It's the perspective of Muslims in the middle east, especially when there's a religious figure head framing the context. Victimhood isn't simply a tool for Muslim leaders, one of the reason Trump campaign was successful in garnering support among white was the message that poor whites are victims of progressive liberal elites. Even if that's not true, the facts presented in the right context makes it believable. I might not agree with them but I can sympathize with both the poor white Trump voters as well as the Islamic extremists.

We are not a theocracy (not for a lack of trying by some conservatives), so despite what Trump or evangelicals want to do (do we know for a fact that they DON'T want to throw gays off of roof tops?) our laws are not reflective of Christian morals and values.

Plus acids are being throw onto people all over the world (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3515544/Mother-one-27-suffers-severe-burns-horrific-acid-attack-thought-orchestrated-abusive-ex-husband.html) as cases of prosecution of gays (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/world/africa/nigeria-uses-law-and-whip-to-sanitize-gays.html), they are more indicative of cultural evolution (or there lack of). Misogyny and any prosecution of individuals/behaviors deem "abnormal" (e.g. homosexuality, transgendered etc) are characteristic of archaic tribal societies. To attribute these incidents exclusively to Muslims or Islam is what Islamophobia is all about. Again religion isn't the cause but rather something for which serves as a basis for which people are manipulated by.

Phobia would imply a irrational fear.. In no place I said all Muslims are evil, or that they should be banned, or that I am fearful of my safety.. I am merely pointing out the barbaric tendencies of Islamic culture..

And I'm saying those "barbaric tendencies" exist in every primitive culture. Fear of Muslims IS one of irrationality. I probably spent more times in Muslim dominate countries than anyone here having served a tour in Iraq and two in Afghanistan as well as various TDY to Kuwait, Turkey and Dubai. I can tell you from those experiences that Muslims are inherently no more dangerous than any other group of individuals of any other faith and that many incidents of brutality and violence are motivated by politics and personal/cultural bias than anything else. Yes, some of their traditions are what we would consider backwards but that's not I don't think Islam is intrinsically incapable of transforming itself to align with more contemporary societal values.

@bmanva: Motivated by personal and cultural bias.. ISLAM IS THEIR CULTURE, their government is ingrained in ISLAM.. Sharia is specifically a set of laws set out for all governments suppose to follow as the WORD of god.. The Middle East had its chance ot secularize but it was stomped on by the US support of dictators and their support of Saudi Arabia, a country who pushes a militant Islamic ideology.

Afghanistan? You mean the rampant boy screwing going in that place in which the soldiers were told by higher ups to ignore.

ISLAM IS incapable because the religion directly DICTATES to follow Sharia.. Does that mean that all Muslims follow it? Of course not, but that sure as shit doesn't make it illogical to be concerned with Islamic majority cultures in the world.. The exact same concern I have for anyone threatening secular idea, including any other religion..

Islam is an religion, culture is more faceted.

"Rampant boy screwing"...wait, we talking about Afghanistan or Catholic church? You walked yourself into that one. But seriously, that's an aspect of Afghan culture, not dissimilar to practices of ancient Greek or feudal Japan. That's not however, something common to Islam or Muslim in general. It's not something I agree and honestly if I had witnessed it I probably would want to put a stop to it, but from a more detached perspective I don't feel like I'm in a position to judge other cultural from my own value. I don't know, it's a complex issue, but not really relevant to the topic on hand.

@sSubZerOo:

Pakistan elected a female president. Lebanon has Christians in government. Tunisia is now a secular republic.

And the Catholic Church has helped millions of people across the world.. In what way does that lessen the fact they hid rampant pedophilia within their establishment? Furthermore Lebanon has always had a Christian majority government due to the French mandate after WW1.. None of these things disprove the concerns I have with Islamic cultures..

Pedophilia is common in the biblical times. There are plenty of references to child sexual slavery in old testament.

It seems like you are in violent agreement. Neither of us are defending those practices, but you have to accept that they are not exclusive to Muslims, but rather remnants of old traditions.

Not to mention Nigeria is a fairly stable democracy with coexisting Christian and Muslim populations. I have several friends who served in the Peace Corp there; according to them it's unlike what I'd imagine a typical African country is like (i.e. tore up by civil war and dirty poor). I mean it still has a ways to go but it's surprising in better shape than many of its neighbors.

Where do you live? That seems like a better question to be asking to make this determination. If you live in the US, there is no real reason to fear the actions of extremist Muslims. If you live in Europe, the "1-10 scared of things" meter, shoots up to about 5 or 6. If you live in one of the 7 very bad Muslim countries, that meter will shoot to 11.

It really depends on where you live yes?

It also depends on if you're religious yes? Religious people, take threats of other religions very seriously and for rational reasons, because of religious history.

I can tell you from those experiences that Muslims are inherently no more dangerous than any other group of individuals of any other faith and that many incidents of brutality and violence are motivated by politics and personal/cultural bias than anything else.

I know right?

Hey how many other religions put fatwa on people who write opinions about them?

How many other religions are actively killing journalists and tourists and locals, for not being of the same religion?

To within the religion.... How many Christians deal with honor rape? How many places is it legal to murder an 11 year old girl because she ran away instead of marrying a 70 year old? How about murdering those of other religions? Is that legal in modern Christian societies?

Here's the problem, and ive told you this before. Christianity has adapted to Western standards of being secular nations. While it tries to take these over, its generally put in check. We do not see the Christian equivalent of Sharia Law today. Even Vatican laws are nothing, child's play, compared to Sharia.

Does this mean we have never seen Christian nations act in its worst behavior? Absolutely not. We have, and we can find plenty of recent examples in the 20th century alone, and it gets worse the further back you go. But do we see this now? No. Right now, there is no Christian nation that is acting as badly as many nations under Sharia Law.

These are simple facts you really have to understand and accept. There is one Christian nation practicing the art of punishing through prison or death, gay people for being gay and that is Nigeria. There are 13 countries under Sharia that do this. There are no Christian nations CURRENTLY, practicing anything ive mentioned above.

We all get that we cant attribute these actions to everyone of the religion, but the religion is at the core of this and you cannot, absolutely cannot address the issue of say....... murdering Christians because they are Christians... without addressing the religious teachings themselves. YOU want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that text reading "kill everyone of another religion unless they pay a tax to live" does not actually mean this or that because 80-90% would never follow this, that the 10-20% do not exist... .well yah, they exist and they are taking the most literal readings of this book and this is a problem that has existed with every religion at any given point in time. So, any thinking human being would deduct that the common problem is......................................ddddduunnnn dunnn dunnnnnnn religion. Which means IF we are going to allow for people to have religious freedom, we still need to be able to put them in check when they need it and just like being a parent, you don't want to punish all your kids because one kid did something wrong (which is essentially whats being argued to do).

I almost want to ask if anyone who takes these views/stances on this situation has ever managed to problem solve an issue in their life. Do you guys attempt to solve all issues this same way? If say, you have a problem with someone in one of your classes, do you take issue with the entire class because it could potentially act as badly? If you went to the doctor, found you had 3 tumors and one of them was cancerous, would you say you need to remove all or none? If we cant put the same concern on the non-cancer, then we cant put that concern onto the cancer?

That's exactly the kind of moral superiority and moral absolutism that people have used to justify their own crimes against others. And really, it's easy to be smug about ones integrity over the internet, but few had ever had theirs tested in real life. Having been in those situations before I can openly and honestly state that I don't know that I can because I haven't always in the past. There's absolutely no shame in me admitting it because I know no one here is in a position to judge.

The Middle East is a complicated place just like Europe, just like Asia, and just like North and South America. Suggesting that it's different for Islamic cultures ignores the entire world and their problems.

Oh I agree completely.. I am merely pointing out that the mainstream Islamic culture is a threat to western secular nations.. The only thing I am arguing about is the concerns and criticisms towards this subject are warranted, and it isn't a phobia to voice them.. Just like extreme Christians are a threat to western secular nations, fortunately for us on that case they are no where near as many in number or viole

I am more critical of the absolute idiocy in ignoring any kind of connection with Islamic rhetoric for instance with the Orlando shooting.. In which their father is a extreme Muslim who supports the Taliban, who we had a Imam a few months earlier in that event was talking about how it is just and right to murder gays.. We can at least be critical towards the values of the ideology while not labeling every one a terrorist.. There is nuance to this in which we can have a middle ground.

I mean great example of this was with Bmanva in saying that he shouldn't judge other cultures with rampant pedophilia.. Than goes on about other unrelated cultures in ancient times to some how defend said culture from criticism, when no one was defending those cultures nor even bringing them up..

Its easier to hate a large segment of a population if you can boil their entire religion/culture/nationality to a simple caricature of something less than human.

@bmanva: ... Notice in all those pictures they are dehumanizing the group of people.. Where have I or Fox done that? No where. Nice strawman.

But western nations are in no danger of being taken over by Islamic fundamentalism. Yes, there are inequalities and human right violations inside Muslim theocracies (as well as other non-Muslim nations) that should be addressed, but by pinning this on the religion you are effectively condemning an entire group of people who by large don't support these act of violence.

Honestly I'm surprised that some of us gamers don't have more sympathy as we've been labeled as potential mass murders by media and targeted for discrimination before. Not that I'm comparing hobby to a religion but the whole attribution of guilty by some association.

Ok lets say Trump or a evangelical in the US represents all of Christians, are they throwing acid on women's faces? Are they throwing gays off roof tops? Are the countries they inhabit literal rape cultures compared to the Middle Eastern nations? Even loons like Pat Robertson (who I despise) hasn't done or supported the kind of shit large Islamic groups in the Middle East have done..

Are you aware for instance with the Refugee crisis they have to put homosexuals in separate camps for their protection from being assaulted and murdered by other refugees?

Than we have the outright lunacy of things like the women's march in which one of the lead organizers was some one who SUPPORtS Sharia law..

How exactly is Islam under threat? Muslim despots own a large portion of the world's energy supply, thus can pull money from the ground. They dont have to take taxes, and it turns out when you dont need to tax your people, maybe your rule will not represent them. Alas, they get untold sums of riches, talk about Allah all day, then piss away their money we gave to them, instead of using it to help their society. Is this the US fault? Does any other religion reliably murder people on a large scale for offending it's precepts? Does any religion take that right on a comparable scale? Is that Islam under threat? And when people fight back against the religion of peace, is this not a rational response to a brutal ideology? Are you going to blame all the failures of Islamic society on US intervention? Is it the US' fault that Islamic societies are routinely decades, if not hundreds of years behind the rest of the world? Is it to be laid at the feet of US leaders, the fact that Muslim suicide bombers are rarely poor, and with a history of oppression? And I dont care about how bad these Muslim societies think their situation is. Their beliefs give them a retrograde society, then they bitch and moan about the successes of the West, and claim a special right to murder and maim for their offenses. Leader after leader does this, and their followers seem pretty acquiescent to follow their fatwas and Jihads.

You honestly want to put US intervention's body count on par with the untold millions lost in the Middle East? Muslims are the greatest killers of other Muslims, and they have been doing this for over a thousand years before The CIA pulled a coup in Iran, ok? How many slaves did Saddam Hussein have in his prison country? How much do the despots in Iran have? How many people have been ground to nothingness, their lives rendered null, for the religion of peace? Is it really all the US fault?

Black and latino males are not murdering based upon an ideology. Black and latino murderers are not typically blowing up girl's schools in Europe, or shooting up gay clubs in America, because of an offense made about the Pope. Black and latino murderers are not acting upon an ideology that enjoins them to murder, subjugate, or convert every human. Black and latino murderers dont have oil money in which to buy massive amounts of arms to supply Islamic fascist armies. And black and latino murderers are not claiming to have the right to take life for the religion of peace.

To your last point. There might not be anything regarding the depiction of Mohammed, but there is in the Hadith, which Muslim scholars place in importance right alongside the Quran. The main problem is that Muslims reliably seize the special right to murder people for writing cartoons, or making fun of their prophet. Nobody is doing that with Jesus or Moses today. If you really think politics of the individuals who commit these acts are doing them because of politics, why are they always talking about the pleasures of paradise, the martyr's pension their family receives, and the bisection of the litigation before entering paradise? That's all they talk about. Usually they dont talk on and on about US policy. Most have never been to the US, or even met an American. Most of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia. We do not oppress them AT ALL. They were college educated, and reaping the fruits of US culture. Yet they droned on and on about martyrdom, and paradise. Same with Omar Mahteen. Who oppressed him? What policy was he fighting against, and why?

Tell me, did this man blow up a mosque because of protest of US foreign policy?

This woman straight up tells you she wants to kill Israelis for paradise. Is a woman blowing up a hospital for Islam to be laid at the feet of the US?

@sSubZerOo:

Is there a mainstream Christian culture that transcends ethnicity, nationality, language, etc...? I think it's ridiculous to say yes, yet that's precisely the narrative that is spun in discussions about Islam. You equate mainstream Islam with extremist Christianity in your first few sentences, and that's not fair or accurate.

@Bullet_Sponge: ... Your right extreme Christians don't beat their wives, have public beheadings, stone women who are suspected of adultery.. Or imprison gays.. have child brides.. In less we are looking at certain African nations.. Your right it isn't fair or accurate because not even extreme Christians as viewed in the western world do this in any number.

.......... So you think me being critical towards Islamic ideology due to their treatment of women, gays or the ideology being explicitly against secular law means I am comparing them to rats and animals? Are you a fool? In what reality does that even remotely make sense? Then again I am not surprised because you couldn't even admit that child pedophilia in the Islamic world is wrong.. You said you can't judge it, than brought up other random cultures which no one here was even defending or apart of as a red herring in your attempt to morally condone it.. Brilliant.

Implying that all Muslims all have propensity in violence against women and homosexuals especially being particularly graphic with the description is part of dehumanization process. Example:

Have you seen the shit currently going on in the European continent with the refugee crisis? There is a reason why suddenly we are seeing these conservative groups who never had a foothold starting gaining popularity within the region.... Hmm boy that's a tough one, how many people have gamers killed? How many people have Islamic extremists killed? Which one is a set of strict ideology that commands them to kill gays, to kill infidels, that justifies beating their wives? You want to see some eye opening stuff? Read up on the testimonies of ex-Muslims (who are targeted btw by many Muslims because it is a sin to leave the religion) of their views on the religion on why they left, and how other Muslims treat them.. Hell even being of Arabic decent like porn actress Mia Khalifa has led to her receiving numerous religious death threats due to her exposing her self for adult entertainment.. Pretty much solidifying that she will never be able to step foot into that region with out fear of being murdered by a mob.

In places like Indonesia for instance the Islamic government caned a woman publicly two dozen times for merely being too close to her boyfriend..

......... Are you dense? The Koran states these things.. Popular Imam's PREACH these things.. Meaning its a big part of the Islamic culture, in no way did I say all Muslim's are part of it.. But hey keep defending that pedophilia, it sure makes you seem like a amazing person.

Are you actually blaming the rise of extreme right on immigrants or refugees? What's next blaming rape victims for dressing like sluts? Not to mentioned your "shit currently going on in the European continent" is actually bullshit perpetuated by those same conservative groups. Doesn't take much to direct people's insecurity and uncertainty on to an particular group who has no representation in the power structure of that society. Hitler did it with the Jews and now we have the Muslims.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/refugees-crime-rumors/480171/

https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/12/21/the-myth-of-crime-increasing-when-refugees-come-to-europe/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-migration-six-myths-about-immigration-debunked-as-latest-figures-show-fall-in-non-eu-arrivals-a6895341.html

AH yes because suddenly seeing a increase in conservative rhetoric in the European continent is exactly like blaming a rape victim.. Not pointing out a underlying problem of a clear issue that didn't exist before this event.. Nope didn't happen. Oh how typical you suddenly went to Hitler.. You sure are playing the ol' play book here, falling into Godwin's law fallacy at the word go. Still waiting for you to say that pedophilia being practiced in Islamic countries is morally reprehensible. Notice I am specifically talking about the ideology of Islam, Hitler went after the actual Jewish ethnicity regardless if they practiced or not (not to mention went after numerous other groups including gypsies, gays, handicapped, political opponents).. But no keep making this false comparison over and over again, especially when the most extreme mainstream view is simply to deny them entrance into the country.. It so does not make you sound like a lunatic.

Nice false dichotomy btw.. Either we have to accept Islam in all it's glory, or become literally Hitler for showing any kind of concern of the ideology. Meanwhile as we are talking about how horrible a person Trump, who is literally Hitler by your definition is, for the travel ban.. Meanwhile ignoring that under the President Obama administration that we dropped something like 21k bombs in 2016 alone, so much that the military actually temporarily ran out of bombs.. Targets predominately all being Muslims.. The hypocrisy here is hilarious.

@sSubZerOo:

You do realize that countering a person's argument by using, "OMG GODWIN'S LAW" doesn't necessarily mean anything. Godwin suggested that most arguments on the internet about any political leader usually leads to comparisons with Hitler. That being said, Godwin himself stated the comparisons aren't automatically illegitimate if they supported by facts.

Trump's rhetoric and behavior is synonymous with far-right populist leaders of the present and past. He doesn't exactly have to be like Hitler, it's the similarities in how they rose to power, what they did while in power, and so on. Saying that vegetarians and people supportive of social programs are Hitler is silly. Saying how a political leader blamed immigrants and Muslims for the ill of the average joe as well as suggesting anti-constitutional measures is a more legitimate comparison. Is Pol Pot Hitler? No but his rise is similar and what he did to his people is similar.

The issue is that we don't know what will happen in the future. Trump's EO barring people because of their national origins is alarming but it could signal a start of the worst things to come. Or not. If we all lived in Hitler's Germany in 1933, not knowing what will happen, we would have never thought of Jews being sent to camps to be exterminated. We live in the present, using the past as clues to what may happen in the future. If you lived in Nazi Germany around the 1930s, you'd probably start blasting critics of Hitler as paranoid idiots because there's no way he's going to kill all the Jews.

Also, what's the difference between the pedophilia practiced in the ME vs the western world? The U.S. still has child marriages (yes, you can google it) as well as violent right wing extremism. Pedophilia is wrong no matter where it is, yet if a victim of pedophilia claimed to be a refugee but is a Muslim, assholes like you would reject her (or him) because of what, their Muslim culture? Jesus, for someone who claimed to be a liberal, you enjoy attacking your own side but ignore the right wing nutjobs on this board. And that's the problem with liberals these days. Being right is more important than winning. That's why Clinton lost. The voting base decided to act on principal rather than acknowledge that compromise to get 70% of you want is somehow "wrong."

@drunk_pi: Where the hell were you when our government passed the patriot act in which the government did away with Hebus Corpus? To leading to capturing and torturing innocent Arabs and Muslims, some dying from it. This is why your entire point is bullshit, because our government has already done far worse before Trump in the last 15 years... And the only reason why you ignore it because this shit was bipartisan. That is why I call you out on this shit, because while you are bitching about something like a travel ban.. Our so "peaceful" prior administration was dropping tens of thousands of bombs on the people you claim to care so much for. To also continuing torture with CIA black sites in which the Obama administration attempted to prevent it being released, in which he had to admit to the American people when it was unavoidable.. "We tortured some folks".. RING any bells?

And you wonder why more and more people are opening their eyes to this bullshit rhetoric.. This is no way defending Trump, he is a asshat, merely pointing out the absolute hypocrisy of the entire situation. Warning bells should have gone off in your head far before the Trump administration of overreachs of a authorarian government, from torture, mass spying to the erosion of rights of citizens. At least Trump you are actually opening your eyes to this horseshit, if this were Clinton you most likely would still be in la la land.

And that is really the most maddening thing about it.. IN 2016 we dropped over 21k bombs, many from drones.. All within the Middle East and Northern African parts.. We also had a report that was leaked in which 90% of the casualties were non targets... Hey I guess that will help you sleep at night, the US government may have maimed, tortured and killed countless people within the region, but at least they had every possible way of immigrating into the US..

Where was I when the Patriot Act was passed? I was in fucking grade school you dolt so obviously I couldn't pull up my revolutionary shorts with a fucking BB gun and get into a fistfight with Bush Jr. Where the **** were you, the liberal protesters, and the so-called second amendment patriots who swore to defend our country from a tyrannical government?

Do you think I'm okay with the PATRIOT Act, torture, black sites, bombings, the secret prisons, travel bans, alliances with corrupt and immoral regimes from any of the administrations, including Obama's, including Carter's and so on? You make the assumption that I'm somehow okay with Obama's tolerance for bombings and the like yet I'm not. It never was okay to begin with.

The difference now is that we have a commander in chief who openly said that he wanted to ban Muslims from entering the country as well as make the claim that Mexicans were sending their worst. We have an administration is openly lying and denying any truth. We have a CiC who blames the problems of this country on fucking immigrants and Muslims, instead of taking pinning the actual blame on the bankers and billionaires who ruined the economic infrastructure, instead of pinning the blame on war profiteers from senators to fucking corporations. We have a CiC who is promoting individuals into his cabinet who favor right-wing religious fervor and violations of civil rights.

Well yeah you are basically sounding that way when the guy who puts forward a travel ban as the most crazy foreign policy thing as literal Hitler compared to the administration before it with a massive body count.

Openly lying? You mean like that time that Obama administration said that the NSA wasn't mass spying on people, only to have the Snowden leak proving that they were and they flat out lied to the American people? If Trump is literal Hitler, what are the administrations before this that actually have large body counts and far worse things attached to them than travel bans?

We don't even need to go far, Bush Jr. and Obama administrations have done monumental horrible things.. That's good you should be critical of Trump's choices in office, I am certainly weary too.. But I am not going to bang the drum to the top off my lungs how he is clearly Hitler..

@sSubZerOo: Your comparing 8-16+ years to a dudes first few weeks in office? The NSA wasnt mass spying on people, they had a system. And you think NSA has stopped? You think NSA will stop? Hell, i bet under Trump NSA will spy more. Trump is so focused on catching terrorist, hell destroy our laws and privacy. Then hell blame it on Obama.

Yeah so that Snowden leak was completely made up a conspiracy.. And your exactly right it is the first few weeks in office, making it even more absurd to keep on claiming he is Hitler.. You would think in one of the most humiliating defeats in Democrat history that this kind of rhetoric doesn't work.

@sSubZerOo: It was blown out of proportion. It wasnt mass spying. And the government used it for good. Citizens would have rioted if Americans were being arrested as a result of NSA catching them doing illegal stuff.

Are you condoning illegal spying on American citizens? Used for good? That sounds awful like you are supporting authoritarian fascist governments. You must love Trump's rhetoric, or you're a hypocrite.

@sSubZerOo: I sure as hell am. And so does the majority. You dont see people caring about that shit. No fear baby.

Did the Obama Administration deliberately target Muslims because of their faith? The travel ban was a legal way of saying that we should ban Muslims but only from certain parts of the region, while ignoring other parts not considered "dangerous." I don't recall Obama wanting to ban Muslims.

We're judging an administration in its infancy... well considering how Trump acts, it might as well be its infancy. Obama isn't Hitler and neither is Trump but Obama isn't a tyrannical dictator. If Clinton won, do you think Trump would have accepted his loss because he refused to accept it if it did happen. If he loses in 2020, do you think he'll let go of power?

No just to blow them to pieces, or arm radicals to fight other radicals in hopes of murdering each other.. Or supporting a Saudi Arabian military who is currently committing war crimes in Yemen in massacring the civilian population there.. But yeah you're right banning the immigration of several countries seems far more heinous than those actions.

Lets go see should I listen to the side that claimed to be the peaceful, rational, non violent side who compares their opponent to Hitler, who riots, who condones to outright supporting violence.. This is how fucked up this entire situation is, because I actually have to DEFEND Trump even though I despise the vast majority of his policies, his rhetoric is awful, and he is a jackass on twitter.. But the otherside has some how turned into even LARGER lunatics.

It's like the left hasn't realized how big of lunatics they are seen around the country currently.. You would think the absolute ass whooping that occurred this last election would enshrine the fact that this rhetoric is not working.

@sSubZerOo: No, you should follow the side who compared Obama and Hillary to devils from a make believe book.

Didn't say it was right either way, my issue is that Trump's rhetoric suggests that he may favor restricting rights for minority groups.

You know who else rioted? The fucking Jews in the camps and the towns they were sent in before they were sent to the camps. I guess they're just a bunch of violent thugs as well right? Maybe if they peacefully protested, they would have won.

As I recall, I remember hearing Trump to put protesters in the stretchers and why we can't return to the good ol' days. Remember Kent University? Some GOP jackass joked about that and got his ass handed to him. Yeah, but only the left is violent.

And what "other side?" You mean people who rely on Obamacare? People who may fear that their lives may be uprooted because of their religion and now their national origins? People with disabilities? You still don't get it. You may despise a vast majority of his policies but you paint with a broad fucking brush that the "other side" are larger lunatics. So far, I'm seeing greater lunacy from the right as they just confirmed DeVos and Sessions, Trump complaining that Nordstrom didn't promote his daughter's stuff, voting restrictions, talks about an "epidemic" of voter fraud, and Trump's disregard of the judicial system.

What underlying problem? Crimes didn't exist in Europe before really? Did you even read the links I posted? The data are clearly cutting one way on this and it's not in support of your fear mongering bullshit. Also way to misunderstand Godwin law, hint: it's not a fallacy. Just it's overused doesn't mean every analogy with Hitler and fascism are fallacious. I also never refuted that pedophilia is unconscionable, I just don't agree with your assertion that it's exclusively Islamic or your moral absolutism. Your statement about Hitlers prosecution base on ethnic ground is immediately contradicted by admission that he also murdered based on ideological differences, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make there.

That dichotomy is one of your own making. There are many faithful Christians that have spoken out against Islamophobia and prosecutions of Muslims. Also unsure what the point of rehashing military operations under Obama was. Because I'm arguing against the false narratives against Muslims so I MUST be an Obama supporter since you know everyone knows Obama is a Muslim. [/sarcasm]

Who's ignoring US history of prosecutions of whole swath of non-white non-Christian people? Is your logic here that US government was responsible for grievous in the past so that so how justify the wrongs we are experiencing now?

The problem I see is one of integration. You have a religious based culture who simply cannot integrate because doing so goes against their religious convictions. They will never integrate like immigrants in the past. You take people who've been raised to persecute woman, jews, & gays hate all other religions and allow them to move into a western community with no social integration courses. What could go wrong !

These people move into an area with only muslims and never socialize with people outside of this closed community. The radicals begin to twist their minds & this is where the problems begin.

so anyway when are you American immigrants giving back the land to the natives?

Pretty much this says it all.

What if they did and left, taking everything they've ever invented or brought with them?

I personally know some natives that would be pissed if they lost their Southpole sweatshirts and Escalades.

I think "Islamophobia" is a very dumb term to deflect criticism from Islam. Islam is a religion, ergo: an ideology someone chooses to adhere to, not a race. How can Islam go through a reform if no one calls it out?