Thief Reboot Jumbo Thread - Story Trailer - (56K take a walk)

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#201 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

Biggest_looser why are you even comparing this game to the original Thief? I know you're a big Thief fan but I'm probably just as big, If you wan't to play a game like Thief then there are various really good mods out there.Sure I would love to play a game like Thief 1 with modern graphics but that's just not gonna happen.

A game like T1 would not sell well, In this day and age Devs can't afford to risk making a game that would not sell! a big budget game needs to be marketed and made in a certain way. I find it sad the fact that we finally got a thief game after a decade and you won't be able to enjoy it for what it is because you'll simple just compare it to Thief 1. This game should not be compared to the original Thief at all.

Also you scored Thief 3 a 9.5 despite it being a very different game from the original two, looks like the changes didn't really bother you but now you seem to get p*ssed at every small change they are announcing to the new game.

I have faith in Eidos Montreal they didn't disappointing with HR.

Chrome-



But how do you know it won't sell well? Have you done your research? Have people told you they wouldn't buy it?

Look at these Youtube videos. People are angry that they are making big changes because they want the old style of the series retained.

They didn't need to make a big budget game. That decision is their own fault in deciding to put huge emphasis on the graphics.

Try watching Danny play through Thief 1 here on Gamespot - the guy is rivetted by the game, despite how old the graphics are. It was amazing seeing someone sit down and play it and just be absorbed by the "old" game play. This one didn't need a huge engine overhaul.

Saying this shouldn't be compared to Thief 1 is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because they've chosen to market this as another Thief game to fans. They could easily, easily have called it something else and written a new character, instead of clinging onto a classic one and spoiling the legacy. 

Since you insisted on going through my scores, I rated Thief: DS 9.5 because its a brilliant game. Yes, it makes some changes but it is still very much a Thief game. They didn't try to turn it into a stealth-action hybrid. It knows exactly what it is.

HR was an overrated game that was only praised because it was only half the disaster that Invisible War was. I wish people would stop clinging to that for hope. 

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#202 Posted by with_teeth26 (8220 posts) -

[QUOTE="nutcrackr"]There is some really bad stuff in that preview. QTE Combat, Mirrors Edge running and stealing out of boredom. TheShadowLord07

heh, was actually wondering if you could be jump off buildings. 

and did deus ex get this much hate when it was shown? It has things like regenative health, 3rd person cover, and parts not coming off(like if you get shot in the legs you would be crawling or something). of course I only played it on easy so I don't know if those features were in the harder levels

I don't remember what people thought of Deux Ex previews, but the mentality of that series is quite different from Thief. Deux Ex has always been about playing how you want - shooting your way through levels, sneaking, hacking etc. and HR delivered on that for the most part, simply modernizing the various mechanics in ways that mostly made sense. 

Thief has always been a pure stealth series like the first few Splintercell games but in first person; if you messed up and a bunch of guards caught you, chances were you would fail the mission. The fact that if you were caught everthing would go to hell made the stealth much more tense than if it was simply an option and you could fight your way out of every situation. 

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#203 Posted by bonafidetk (3911 posts) -

The thief license would be dead if they didnt make this game. Take this for what it is IMO. Theres no need to get worked up about squeenix taking a buried license and reinventing it. No company would put up the financial backing needed to make a clone version of the original thief games. This new game wont somehow deminish the original games. They'll still be avialable to play if you want to. I bet this game will be good (HR and TR were good imo), its just not really like the original thief games in anything but concept and name.

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#204 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

The thief license would be dead if they didnt make this game. Take this for what it is IMO. Theres no need to get worked up about squeenix taking a buried license and reinventing it. No company would put up the financial backing needed to make a clone version of the original thief games. This new game wont somehow deminish the original games. They'll still be avialable to play if you want to. I bet this game will be good (HR and TR were good imo), its just not really like the original thief games in anything but concept and name.

bonafidetk

Why should we take things as they are though? How often has this board criticised big budget games like Battlefield 3? No one said we should take them for what they are. 

I would honestly rather have the license die than see Thief turned into a modernised, hand-holding game for the masses. What does it say about our medium if we're just willing to accept mass produced games because "well its the best we could get"? Stuff that.

I guarantee you right now if they had bothered to test the water on this through a kickstarter program and pitched an old school Thief game the Internet would have exploded with support. Just look at how much interest this game has generated from old Thief fans, who are now disappointed. 

What exactly is your definition of good now? Cashing in on the popularity of an old game's name and then erasing its original identity and uniqueness is not what I'd call "good".  

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#205 Posted by bussinrounds (2823 posts) -

 www.techhive.com/article/2033041/thief-4-looks-great-but-it-may-be-too-forgiving-for-diehard-fans-of-the-original-games.html  

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#206 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

 www.techhive.com/article/2033041/thief-4-looks-great-but-it-may-be-too-forgiving-for-diehard-fans-of-the-original-games.html  

bussinrounds
Thanks. I'll add it to the front page.
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#207 Posted by Qixote (10843 posts) -

I may as well stop yearning for a game company to be capable of continuing the legacy of LGS.  It apparently is not possible.  Too few have their level of creativity and vision.  The process is all about mass marketing now and borrowing too much from many other games rather than making a game its own thing.  And it's only worse when they attempt to do it with and established game franchise.  Even in the odd chance this game becomes a hit, it will be no Thief aside from its title.

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#208 Posted by Lost-to-Apathy (459 posts) -

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

 Navigation beacon shows players where to go

bussinrounds

 **** this world

Dead Space has that, too. You don't have to use it. Why not appeal to both people who like to explore and people who just want to get on with it? I'd agree if it was automatic and forced upon the player, but I don't think that's the case.
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#210 Posted by bussinrounds (2823 posts) -

[QUOTE="bussinrounds"]

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

 Navigation beacon shows players where to go

Lost-to-Apathy

 **** this world

Dead Space has that, too. You don't have to use it. Why not appeal to both people who like to explore and people who just want to get on with it? I'd agree if it was automatic and forced upon the player, but I don't think that's the case.

Problem is these games are designed AROUND the 'helpers'.

 

  Look at Skyrim say, take away the quest compass and you wouldn't know where to go due to the lack of info given.  And that map in Dead Space 1 was annoying as hell, the way it tried to show different levels at the same time, instaed of just bringing up a seprate map for each level.

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#211 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

  Look at Skyrim say, take away the quest compass and you wouldn't know where to go due to the lack of info given.  And that map in Dead Space 1 was annoying as hell, the way it tried to show different levels at the same time, instaed of just bringing up a seprate map for each level.

bussinrounds



I don't think its fair to criticise Skyrim in the same bracket because the world in that is several magnitudes larger than something like Dead Space. Its a necessity in that instance.  

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#212 Posted by bussinrounds (2823 posts) -

 Its a necessity 

biggest_loser

  It is ?   I wonder how big, non-linear RPGs ever existed before they had an on screen helper telling you exactly where to go at all times ?

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#213 Posted by kozzy1234 (35966 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chrome-"]

Biggest_looser why are you even comparing this game to the original Thief? I know you're a big Thief fan but I'm probably just as big, If you wan't to play a game like Thief then there are various really good mods out there.Sure I would love to play a game like Thief 1 with modern graphics but that's just not gonna happen.

A game like T1 would not sell well, In this day and age Devs can't afford to risk making a game that would not sell! a big budget game needs to be marketed and made in a certain way. I find it sad the fact that we finally got a thief game after a decade and you won't be able to enjoy it for what it is because you'll simple just compare it to Thief 1. This game should not be compared to the original Thief at all.

Also you scored Thief 3 a 9.5 despite it being a very different game from the original two, looks like the changes didn't really bother you but now you seem to get p*ssed at every small change they are announcing to the new game.

I have faith in Eidos Montreal they didn't disappointing with HR.

biggest_loser



But how do you know it won't sell well? Have you done your research? Have people told you they wouldn't buy it?

Look at these Youtube videos. People are angry that they are making big changes because they want the old style of the series retained.

They didn't need to make a big budget game. That decision is their own fault in deciding to put huge emphasis on the graphics.

Try watching Danny play through Thief 1 here on Gamespot - the guy is rivetted by the game, despite how old the graphics are. It was amazing seeing someone sit down and play it and just be absorbed by the "old" game play. This one didn't need a huge engine overhaul.

Saying this shouldn't be compared to Thief 1 is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because they've chosen to market this as another Thief game to fans. They could easily, easily have called it something else and written a new character, instead of clinging onto a classic one and spoiling the legacy. 

Since you insisted on going through my scores, I rated Thief: DS 9.5 because its a brilliant game. Yes, it makes some changes but it is still very much a Thief game. They didn't try to turn it into a stealth-action hybrid. It knows exactly what it is.

HR was an overrated game that was only praised because it was only half the disaster that Invisible War was. I wish people would stop clinging to that for hope. 



While I agree with you on most of what you brign up about this upcoming Thief but I can't agree with you at all on the Deus Ex HR comment, it was far from overrated to me. Half the disaster that IW was? Two completly different games from a quality standpoint imo. Id give IW 4/10 and Deus Ex HR a 8.5 or 9/10. Can't realy compare those two imo, one was a travesty and one was actually very good (if not as good as the first one, still a million times better than IW was). Felt like a nice addition to the series to me, while IW did not.


Id be happy if the new Thief was even close to as good as HR was, but I have a feeling it wont (will be more along the lines of the new Tomb Raider dissapointment atleast it was dissapointing to me). I thought HR did a good job of taking an old school series and getting a good new game in the series.

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#214 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

 Its a necessity 

bussinrounds

  It is ?   I wonder how big, non-linear RPGs ever existed before they had an on screen helper telling you exactly where to go at all times ?



I was thinking about the huge map and how that has a marker on it telling you which part of Skyrim to travel to. Without that, the game would be very confusing.

Were you just talking about interior levels??

 

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#215 Posted by bussinrounds (2823 posts) -

[QUOTE="bussinrounds"]

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

 Its a necessity 

biggest_loser

  It is ?   I wonder how big, non-linear RPGs ever existed before they had an on screen helper telling you exactly where to go at all times ?



I was thinking about the huge map and how that has a marker on it telling you which part of Skyrim to travel to. Without that, the game would be very confusing.



 

  Don't you think that kind of kills the whole sense of exploration when you're just being shown where to go ?      

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#216 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

Don't you think that kind of kills the whole sense of exploration when you're just being shown where to go ?      

bussinrounds

Well no because a lot of those places early on have to be discovered first, which means maybe fast travelling to one spot but then a long, long treck to the next one until its "discovered" and put on your map. 

Its also your choice as to whether you use fast travel or not. Some of the best moments for me are just walking around that world for long stretches.  

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#217 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -
Posted a new video.
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#218 Posted by Goyoshi12 (9687 posts) -

New IGN preview

These parts caught my attention. Make of them what you will people:

[QUOTE="IGN"]

"It looks like Mirrors Edge but set in the Dark Ages, as Garret slides across wooden tables, clambers through open windows, and spills out onto the cobbled streets, all at a blistering speed."

"During such sections climbing walls, clinging to ledges the game adopts a third-person perspective with Garrett negotiating his environment much like Nathan Drake or Desmond Miles."

"While you can leave crime scenes undetected, occasionally things dont go to plan and Garrett must rely on his wits and weapons. In the demo I saw, the demonstrator used the environment to assist his escape....Running outside hes confronted by some heavily-armed enemies - this is the first time that Garrett draws his weapon, entering into what is being called Focus mode."

"In Focus mode, time slows down, allowing you to target your opponents weak spots. At the minute, this seems to be done by dragging a moving cursor over key areas and a matching button press. It makes combat more of a quick-time event sort of experience, but with Focus disabled combat is a more traditional affair...The escape itself recalls that frantic Mirrors Edge-style section, in which you get a sense of Garretts agility and speed."

"The same sensibility has carried over into Thief stealing is still a focus, but combat is there if you want it." 

biggest_loser

Doesn't look that bad to me, honestly. They're just showing off how combat is going to be in the game along with parkour, that's all. It's not saying anything like THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THE GAME it's just showcasing what the game will offer on all fronts and that includes the combat and how it will function.

Also, third-person perspective? That's new, I don't recall ANY of the Thief games EVER offering you the option of going into third person mode; ESPECIALLY the third Thief game.

/sarcasm

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#219 Posted by -wildflower- (2997 posts) -

[QUOTE="bussinrounds"]

Don't you think that kind of kills the whole sense of exploration when you're just being shown where to go ?      

biggest_loser

Well no because a lot of those places early on have to be discovered first, which means maybe fast travelling to one spot but then a long, long treck to the next one until its "discovered" and put on your map. 

Its also your choice as to whether you use fast travel or not. Some of the best moments for me are just walking around that world for long stretches.  

But isn't it also your choice whether or not you want to play Thief's Creed as an action game or a stealth game?

Look, I agree with you both, turning Thief into an twitchy action-game for the lotus eaters is ridiculous but so, too, are glowing way-points in a RPG (although Skyrim isn't really a RPG, but I digress).  

I still don't understand the point of rebooting a franchise only to crap all over what made it unique in the first place.  Why not call this game something else?  What's so special about the Thief name (oh, excuse me, I mean brand) and why alienate its longtime fan-base?   It's the same issue I had with Fallout 3, Syndicate, etc.  If a developer doesn't want to honor a game's core design, then call your f'n "reboot" something else.

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#220 Posted by with_teeth26 (8220 posts) -

Posted a new video. biggest_loser

that had some promising information, like higher difficulties disabling certain features for hardcore stealth fans. They were pretty vague but there may yet be hope. 

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#221 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

Doesn't look that bad to me, honestly. They're just showing off how combat is going to be in the game along with parkour, that's all. It's not saying anything like THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THE GAME it's just showcasing what the game will offer on all fronts and that includes the combat and how it will function.

Also, third-person perspective? That's new, I don't recall ANY of the Thief games EVER offering you the option of going into third person mode; ESPECIALLY the third Thief game.

/sarcasm

Goyoshi12

I have no problem with an optional third person mode. Adding third person compulsory for climbing seems unnecessary. 

But the success of Thief is that there has only ever been one way to play the game. You were poor at combat so that you felt the danger of getting caught. You felt like you were the hunted, not the hunter.

Adding more combat options may encourage people to be more aggressive with guards, which isn't the point.

Its not just combat though. There are other videos talking about adding in speed elements not unlike Mirrors Edge!  

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#222 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

Posting a new preview. This one has a few more specific details about the mechanics. 

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#223 Posted by chrisrooR (9027 posts) -

I have hope! I just can't get too hyped...I keep having my heart broken. Simcity, Hitman Absolution, Diablo 3....what happened to you guys:cry:

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#224 Posted by BrunoBRS (74156 posts) -

Posting a new preview. This one has a few more specific details about the mechanics. 

biggest_loser
CVG's layout always makes me feel like i clicked an ad by accident. they should really revamp the whole thing. all those flat red boxes look like some 90's online store. ONTO THE PREVIEW. "Clad in leathers he's half way between Assassin's Creed II's Ezio and Soul Calibur's gimp-man Voldo." :lol: that's harsh. i was worried about the mirror's edge sprinting thing, until the dev brought up that you can do without it. so like i was saying, they were doing those things more to show off the various different gameplay "tools" than a playstyle that the player is expected to follow. i'm willing to bet that the time limit is comfortable enough for you to make your way there without having to take down guards. "We're told in the final game we'd be able to subdue Eastwick before the alarm's sounded and escape without suspicion, but during our demo we're doomed to contend with alerted guards." told ya it wasn't scripted. overall, it feels like all the action-y stuff is there as an alternative, and that even if you try a more aggressive approach, it won't be really effective, as it requires using a lot of a limited resource to keep up with this playstyle.
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#225 Posted by Goyoshi12 (9687 posts) -

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

Posting a new preview. This one has a few more specific details about the mechanics. 

BrunoBRS

overall, it feels like all the action-y stuff is there as an alternative, and that even if you try a more aggressive approach, it won't be really effective, as it requires using a lot of a limited resource to keep up with this playstyle.

Problem is (if memory serves me correctly), BL doesn't like the mechanic of choice in a stealth game. His reasoning for why the Thief series was better than all the other stealth games (Hitman, Splinter Cell, Dishonoured, Metal Gear, etc.) was because you only had one way of completing the missions which was through stealth. That was why it was considered a pure stealth game because they never gave you an option to complete the mission any other way other than your arrows, blackjack, the darkness, and your wits.

Of course I could be entirely wrong in which case, my apologies if what I said is entirely false and incorrect and feel free to both A) Mock me and B) Correct me.

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#226 Posted by Chrome- (1721 posts) -

Problem is (if memory serves me correctly), BL doesn't like the mechanic of choice in a stealth game. His reasoning for why the Thief series was better than all the other stealth games (Hitman, Splinter Cell, Dishonoured, Metal Gear, etc.) was because you only had one way of completing the missions which was through stealth.Goyoshi12

I don't know about that, I remember spending a-lot of time battling monsters in Thief 1.

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#227 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

New article from Computer and Video Games

Here are some points I found interesting: 



A very easy example is the famous question for Thief about whether it's a first-person-game or a third-person-game. We gave it a try in the third person because there are a lot of amazing games in the third person and they sell a lot of copies.

Another big thing we tried at the beginning was based on feedback we saw from the play-testing. For a lot of players - not old guys like me but from the newer generation of players - they were play-testing the game and they had a lot of testosterone and I guess they wanted to play fast. Very quickly they're like, "Oh shit, they saw me!"

The areas were really aggressive and, BANG!, they were dead. People said, "woah, wait a minute. I did my best but it's not game over [when I'm seen]. Give me the possibility to do something. It's not true that I'm going to restart it when I'm seen - I want to prove that I'm not a pu**y. So that's a big thing we had to work on a lot. You want to protect yourself in those situations but we don't want to see you as a big soldier because it's really not what the game is about. Technically speaking, if you are good then the guards will never know you're there."

So Focus is like a get-out-of-jail-card for those kind of players who just want to have fun when they get caught and want to clear the area. But in the next area they won't have many resources left, so they'll have to try a little harder. It's a balancing act right now. A debate we're having is whether you can disable Focus permanently for hardcore players who want to brag about doing it without any of the extra tools.

So the debate we are having is about wanting to give the players the opportunity to disable and customise their play style the way they want to play. That's very important for us.

Eidos


 

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#228 Posted by nutcrackr (13029 posts) -
not surprised, ADD kids demanded a chance to recover. I don't support a Hitman-esque Ultra hard mode that disables that stuff either. Because some people (me) would like a balanced difficulty / AI detection but not be able to cut down 4 guards with ease. I bet they will have a checkpoint save system.
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#229 Posted by Qixote (10843 posts) -

This just keeps getting worse.  Imagine if LGS had let young gamers playtest their early build of Thief: TDP and cared about what they wanted.  It never would have been released.  LGS was a visionary studio.  They had confidence in their own vision, built upon it, and shared it with the world.  Now here's EM doing the opposite.  Have zero confidence in any trace of vision they might have and mainly need to rely on validation from little play testing noobs.  Sigh.

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#230 Posted by -wildflower- (2997 posts) -

Certainly discouraging but not surprising.  This is what happens when developers try to appeal to everyone.  The best you can hope for now is that somebody will get the gumption to crowd-fund a proper Thief-like game.

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#231 Posted by nutcrackr (13029 posts) -

More bad news this time from Polygon

Thief reboot impeded by office politics, high-level departures

In March of this year, the same month as the game's publicity push on the cover of Game Informer magazine, Lead Game Designer Dominic Fleury left the studio.

The current version of Thief barely resembles the initial concept, says a source. The vertical slice doesn't load inside Thief's current heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 3. Many programming tricks were necessary to run the current demonstration, like turning off non-playable character AI the engine has trouble when too many characters are on screen.

The level, which takes place in part inside a brothel, apparently featured "Cinemax-level" sex sequences at one point that some animators were uncomfortable creating.

Took them 10 months to create a fake press demo.

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#232 Posted by BrunoBRS (74156 posts) -

More bad news this time from Polygon

Thief reboot impeded by office politics, high-level departuresTook them 10 months to create a fake press demo.

nutcrackr
not as much fake as unfinished. it's not like they were making stuff up, they were cutting them off.
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#233 Posted by Baranga (14217 posts) -

Took them 10 months to create a fake press demo.

nutcrackr

That's how every vertical slice was ever made. Can't help but think that this article is part of those toxic office politics - a disgruntled employee feels the need to shit on his (former?) team.

The Game Informer preview already mentioned the production problems they had. I don't know if the article ended up online, so I took screenshots of the two relevant sections:

16fq0o.jpg

 

2jroqt.jpg

 

It's cool to be negative about upcoming AAA games but we already knew this is stuck in development hell and Square isn't trying to hide it.

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#234 Posted by bonafidetk (3911 posts) -

Discouraging but not surprising. I knew there was a bad reason its been secretly developed for 4 years. I just hope they dont make a spliter cell conviction clone in the thief world.

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#235 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

New PC Gamer Preview - May 18th 2013

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#236 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -
Posted the first E3 trailer on the front page if anyone wants to watch it.
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#237 Posted by SKaREO (3161 posts) -
Whenever I see a Hollywood-style trailer without a hint of actual gameplay, it worries me.
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#238 Posted by nutcrackr (13029 posts) -

E3 trailer = :|

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#239 Posted by BrunoBRS (74156 posts) -
trailer didn't do anything for me.
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#240 Posted by Elann2008 (33028 posts) -

E3 trailer = :|

nutcrackr

E3 =:?

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#241 Posted by Goyoshi12 (9687 posts) -

I thought the trailer was fine. Voice acting is eh but doesn't sound THAT bad.

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#242 Posted by Cwagmire21 (5896 posts) -

trailer didn't do anything for me.BrunoBRS

Yah, didn't do much for me either. Lines were kinda meh.

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#243 Posted by BrunoBRS (74156 posts) -
anyone know if they'll have a demo at E3? then we'd finally be able to see the gameplay with our own eyes.
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#244 Posted by biggest_loser (24254 posts) -

Hey guys. Here is the first Thief game play video via Game Trailers. I'm sorry I couldn't find the Gamespot one: 

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/7h5jx0/thief-e3-2013--stealth-gameplay-demo--stream-

 

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#245 Posted by BrunoBRS (74156 posts) -
i was annoyed at him taking enemies down left and right, then he got killed. and i laughed. that aside, it looks pretty nice.
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#246 Posted by Qixote (10843 posts) -

The E3 trailer was surprisingly decent, despite Stephen Russell's absent voice.  I can actually live with it.

But that gameplay footage. . .egads.  I don't know where to begin.  I guess with the ridiculous way Garrett walks everywhere with both empty hands extended in front like he is sleepwalkig.  What's with that?  And much of his movement is overdramatic. Yes we all know Garrett is a master thief.  We don't need reminded with every little movement he makes; it makes him look so amateurish.  The game looks designed for total idiots.  You can see the sound of footsteps?   Listening is not enough?  The original Thief audio clues were core to the gameplay.  Now they have to show us visually where the sound is coming from. (Guard footsteps this way, behind this wall! you idiot!!) I guess that is good for deaf people (rolleyes).  We need to see the guards alert levels too?  You mean it's not enough to hear the guard become alert and come running after me where I also have to see a red icon above his head to tell me he is alert? 

Maybe this reboot should be titled Thief:  the Dumb Project.

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#247 Posted by nutcrackr (13029 posts) -

guard is "SUSPICIOUS" 

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#248 Posted by Elann2008 (33028 posts) -

guard is "SUSPICIOUS" 

nutcrackr
Aye.. that was bad. Hopefully we will be able to turn it off, but I doubt it.
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#249 Posted by harry_james_pot (11397 posts) -
I loved the old Thief games, but I'm not really excited about this one..
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#250 Posted by C_Glass (259 posts) -

No voice over guy, you're not Garrett, you're action guy from generic action game number #35234, the real Garrett would eat you for lunch. Actually, the real Garrett wouldn't even fight you, he'd steal your underwear and replace it with a thong for shits and giggles. Garrett was a seasoned thief, you, however, are reckless action dude who is probably going to kill a shit ton of people by games end.